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Posted: 4/25/2023 3:52:53 PM EDT
Interesting take. A few parts made me scratch my head, but in general, I agree with the reasoning behind it. I have a 10.5" 300blk as my current SHTF, and it is for the exact reasons he mentioned in terms of sound signature. It isn't to be hollyweird/video game quiet as I snipe sentries, it is to have to reduced sound signature and not let the entire world know I am firing a weapon (especially while having decent power/range/accuracy for subs), while being able to go super with a mag swap.
 300blk As Fighting Rifle |
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Posted: 4/25/2023 3:57:06 PM EDT
[#1]
Gonna watch this shortly. Thanks for sharing.
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Posted: 4/25/2023 4:10:26 PM EDT
[#2]
I don’t mind Hop but I personally find Brassfacts pretty annoying for some reason. I watched this the other day and it’s not really anything that most here wouldn’t already know.
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Posted: 4/25/2023 4:14:05 PM EDT
[#3]
Pretty good reason for 300blk
 300 AAC Blackout for Home Defense? Maybe! |
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Posted: 4/25/2023 4:17:37 PM EDT
[#4]
I watched that yesterday. My HD/backpack gun is 300. Everything else is 5.56.
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Posted: 4/25/2023 4:35:57 PM EDT
[#5]
Very well done and informative video.
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Posted: 4/25/2023 7:35:31 PM EDT
[#6]
I don’t take anyone seriously with a goofy mustache like that, but his last points were ok. I see it basically as a decent ranch gun, subsonics are quiet but they ricochet like crazy and your range is limited. Supersonics are about as loud as a 5.56, I prefer 5.56. 300blk is a good close-medium range hunting cartridge but I prefer a bolt action suppressed over ar. The only thing it does well in an ar imo is shoot subsonics pretty quiet and it’s versatile enough to use for hunting or self defense with the capacity.
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Posted: 4/25/2023 9:11:32 PM EDT
[#7]
Despite the hype, the exterior ballistic performance of .300 BO has never impressed me. I’ve never found any particular reason to have one considering that there are so many superior options.
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Posted: 4/25/2023 9:19:00 PM EDT
[#8]
Lol, 8" 300 BLK same loudness as an 8" 5.56.
GTFOH with that BS. |
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Posted: 4/25/2023 9:26:50 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol, 8" 300 BLK same loudness as an 8" 5.56. GTFOH with that BS. Agreed. |
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Posted: 4/25/2023 10:04:24 PM EDT
[#10]
The video in the OP basically boils down to this:
1. Compares .300blk 8-12" with 5.56 10-12.5". Concludes there is no discernable ballistic advantage inside 100 yards. Pretends that longer shots don't matter ever. 2. Talks about how expensive .300 ammo is. But then says go ahead and spend $2K on .300Blk stuff if you fantasize about some far fetched scenario where you need to quietly kill people, then quickly switch to real intermediate rifle stuff. Describes some possible far fetched scenario s for people who don't live in Shitcago. Never mentions: 1. that BLK has a huge advantage out of the very short 8" barrels, which gives you options for effective ballistics with a shorter OAL. 2. BLK ammo is significantly heavier. Quote HistoryThis guy is a total goober. Repeatedly states that he wants to drop bad guys with one shot. Thinks 5.56 is inadequate for HD. Thinks subsonic .300 has better terminal ballistics than 5.56 and is a better option than .300 supers due to over penetration. And he says he's an instructor. 
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Posted: 4/26/2023 12:35:24 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Despite the hype, the exterior ballistic performance of .300 BO has never impressed me. I’ve never found any particular reason to have one considering that there are so many superior options. Ok. I want 9-10" barrel PDW. What do? Platform/caliber/ammunition? |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 12:49:46 AM EDT
[#12]
Subsonic anything is a very specialized thing for a very specialized purpose.
Supersonic 7.62 at 2100 FPS is pretty effective out to about 200 yards. But you won't get that velocity out of a pistol-length barrel. I think its OK as a fighting cartridge. But its not 7.62 NATO. You can get guns in 7.62 NATO all day, and twice on Sunday. Unless you have the specialized NEED for subsonic, I'd say get the 7.62 NATO gun and spend time and money training on THAT. If you can afford to have fifteen different fighting guns, you still have to pick ONE when its time to fight. Would you really pick the lesser-powered gun, let alone one shooting subsonic ammo? You won't usually quiet the enemy into submission. Gunfights are usually hellacious loud. Maybe wear earpro instead of getting distractced with all this "tactical" stuff. I have fifteen different "fighting" rifles. I don't know whether to be proud of that or ashamed of that. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 9:48:04 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t take anyone seriously with a goofy mustache like that, but his last points were ok. I see it basically as a decent ranch gun, subsonics are quiet but they ricochet like crazy and your range is limited. Supersonics are about as loud as a 5.56, I prefer 5.56. 300blk is a good close-medium range hunting cartridge but I prefer a bolt action suppressed over ar. The only thing it does well in an ar imo is shoot subsonics pretty quiet and it’s versatile enough to use for hunting or self defense with the capacity. It works well in extremely short barreled application, which is admittedly in part due to the ammo/projectiles available for it. Outside of that role, I’m choosing something else as well. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 9:51:22 AM EDT
[#14]
Disregard original velocity data, I can’t remember and/or read very well apparently.
Still, 110gr Barnes out of my Rattler is expanding out to about 200-225y reliably. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 9:52:15 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok. I want 9-10" barrel PDW. What do? Platform/caliber/ammunition? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Despite the hype, the exterior ballistic performance of .300 BO has never impressed me. I’ve never found any particular reason to have one considering that there are so many superior options. Ok. I want 9-10" barrel PDW. What do? Platform/caliber/ammunition? In a 10” gun I’m choosing 5.56. It’s well within the operating envelope of modern 5.56 loads. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 11:28:40 AM EDT
[#16]
If components were cheaper, I roll with just 300BO.
I like how it anchors medium game. I like how quiet it is suppressed subsonic. Not at easy to hit targets beyond 500 yards as 5.56 (talking supers here). But there will never be a real life scenario where I'm shooting 5.56 beyond 500 yards at anything important anyways... To me, cost is the only downside. Even as a reloader, damn 30 cal bullets are expensive. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 11:38:14 AM EDT
[#17]
I keep my rattler a go to and don’t feel undergunned with supers. I’m in the woods and hilly suburbs. I can’t see more than 200 yards in any direction at home and the 5.5” barrel is much more handy inside than an 11”, since either would be suppressed.
I’m ok with the cost of ammo cause I can plink and train with other calibers in the same platform. It’s easy to actually have with me and good enough. Subs are handy just for quietly killing game if needed, and cause they are funny as shit. 300 subs are basically 45acp which is no slouch but I always pick supers for defense. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 11:40:43 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If components were cheaper, I roll with just 300BO. I like how it anchors medium game. I like how quiet it is suppressed subsonic. Not at easy to hit targets beyond 500 yards as 5.56 (talking supers here). But there will never be a real life scenario where I'm shooting 5.56 beyond 500 yards at anything important anyways... To me, cost is the only downside. Even as a reloader, damn 30 cal bullets are expensive. Finding a high quality personal defense projectile, which consistently expands subsonic is my biggest concern. Not the price - which is crazy expensive. The other issue I have is finding load data to use as a starting point for a suppressed SBR. All of the load data I can find is for a 16” carbine. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 11:58:20 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Subsonic anything is a very specialized thing for a very specialized purpose. Supersonic 7.62 at 2100 FPS is pretty effective out to about 200 yards. But you won't get that velocity out of a pistol-length barrel. I think its OK as a fighting cartridge. But its not 7.62 NATO. You can get guns in 7.62 NATO all day, and twice on Sunday. Unless you have the specialized NEED for subsonic, I'd say get the 7.62 NATO gun and spend time and money training on THAT. If you can afford to have fifteen different fighting guns, you still have to pick ONE when its time to fight. Would you really pick the lesser-powered gun, let alone one shooting subsonic ammo? You won't usually quiet the enemy into submission. Gunfights are usually hellacious loud. Maybe wear earpro instead of getting distractced with all this "tactical" stuff. I have fifteen different "fighting" rifles. I don't know whether to be proud of that or ashamed of that. Probably depends on where you live, but I took the point of the video was to use a caliber that didn't alert everyone in a two mile radius to you fired a shot, while also giving you the flexibility to go supersonic rifle power (at shorter ranges). 2100 fps with 110gr rounds is pretty easy to reach out of pistol length barrels, unless you are talking super shorties. Anything 8 inches or above with good ammo should hit that. My Wilson Combat loaded 110gr Tac-tx clocked in at 2261 fps out of my 10.5" and 2213 out of my 9". I could not chorno my 7.5" due to the gas block, but I suspect that would have been above 2100 fps. But maybe the difference is how we are all defining "fighting rifle" and the scenario we looking at. To your point, if I was in a large group knowingly going into a gun fight to take or hold a piece of land/objective/whatever, the last thing in the world I would want is a 300blk (we are talking a situation where the other side is expecting you). Give me something with some ass on it. Noise isn't a concern. But if the 2nd scenario is more of being by yourself or with a small group of people and you are trying to avoid contact as much as possible because you don't know who is out there and if they are friendly or not (or if there are a lot more of them), I would want 300blk. Maybe the difference is the term "fighting rifle" vs "SHTF weapon". My 10.5" 300blk is my current SHTF weapon, just edging out my 16" (and 12.5" 5.56) 77grSMK's....mostly because of the second scenario listed. But in a known battle against a known target in a known area, I would grab my 16" or 20" 5.56 (I don't own anything larger). |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 2:49:10 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Finding a high quality personal defense projectile, which consistently expands subsonic is my biggest concern. Not the price - which is crazy expensive. The other issue I have is finding load data to use as a starting point for a suppressed SBR. All of the load data I can find is for a 16” carbine. Quite a few options atm for good expanding subs.. Makers and 190 sub-x come to mind let alone Lehigh offerings. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 3:19:57 PM EDT
[#21]
The dude is a LARPing clown.
I don't give a crap about noise and sentries are really, really hard to find in these parts. I use it because It's a teeny, tiny, light 10.5" barreled rifle that kills hogs nicely with a very accurate and light recoiling supersonic 125 gr handload made from cheap and easily convertible brass. I will never load any other bullet. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 3:40:51 PM EDT
[#22]
Can or not, it's Barnes 110gr supers for killing things dead.
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Posted: 4/26/2023 3:50:27 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quite a few options atm for good expanding subs.. Makers and 190 sub-x come to mind let alone Lehigh offerings. I already have some of the Lehigh Maximum Expansion 194gr. I am going to be working up loads for them. I also had tried the factory Hornady 190gr Sub-X cartridges. The velocity averaged 930 +/- over 20 rounds. Definitely not enough velocity for any kind of expansion. I have 60 of those left which I'll disassemble and work up load data for. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 4:19:59 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In a 10” gun I’m choosing 5.56. It’s well within the operating envelope of modern 5.56 loads. May I ask why? It isn't so much that a 10.3"/10.5" 5.56 does not work (it has clearly worked over the years), but what do you feel it does better than the same length barrel in 300blk (in doing things that one usually does with a 10"ish barrel). I'm asking only because when I originally got into 300blk, I thought the 10.5" and longer barrel lengths were the dumbest things ever (outside of the specifically built 16" barrels). I've changed my mind on that, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts on it. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 4:23:29 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In a 10” gun I’m choosing 5.56. It’s well within the operating envelope of modern 5.56 loads. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Despite the hype, the exterior ballistic performance of .300 BO has never impressed me. I’ve never found any particular reason to have one considering that there are so many superior options. Ok. I want 9-10" barrel PDW. What do? Platform/caliber/ammunition? In a 10” gun I’m choosing 5.56. It’s well within the operating envelope of modern 5.56 loads. A 10" 300blk (with 110gr supers) has the same energy as a 16" 5.56. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 5:12:53 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A 10" 300blk (with 110gr supers) has the same energy as a 16" 5.56. Yep, I'm grabbing my 8" 300 BLK and 110gr Black Tips. I feel perfectly equipped with that. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 5:33:27 PM EDT
[#27]
It certainly has its place but I wouldn’t use it as my dedicated battle rifle.
Short/suppressed and packs a punch for HD/ranch use. Quick mag changes between supers and subs depending on the situation at hand. Close range hunting with either. I’ll carry mine deep into the woods for a woods defense rifle too. It is the first gun I grab if something riled up the farm animals or if somebody were to break in. But that’s about where I stop using it. In an actual “war” type scenario I’d be grabbing a 16/18” 5.56/.308/6.5 style rifle for the extra distance. If I’m trying to be quiet for whatever reason I’m adding more distance and taking a suppressed bolt gun. Unless I’m overtaking a commie stronghold and everyone is using 300BO with subs in Minecraft. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 7:48:09 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A 10" 300blk (with 110gr supers) has the same energy as a 16" 5.56. Both of which are absolutely pathetic if you are just using math to generate numbers to represent "bullet energy." Whatever "bullet energy" is supposed to represent. Its always about shot-placement and bullet performance. Both of which have practically nothing to do with "bullet energy." |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 7:51:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can or not, it's Barnes 110gr supers for killing things dead. That bullet weight is the most versatile for supers for sure. Usually lightweight construction (expansion) and lightweight generally (velocity). Bullets in that weight class are usually very affordable too. I have some Gucci Lehigh bullets too. Subs-type and Supers-type. They're very nice. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 7:59:09 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 2100 fps with 110gr rounds is pretty easy to reach out of pistol length barrels, unless you are talking super shorties. Anything 8 inches or above with good ammo should hit that. My Wilson Combat loaded 110gr Tac-tx clocked in at 2261 fps out of my 10.5" and 2213 out of my 9". I could not chorno my 7.5" due to the gas block, but I suspect that would have been above 2100 fps. You can get those velocities from an 8-inch. But you need to take a close look at your brass if you do. You are at the upper-upper range of pressure before you start puking primers at that point in an 8-inch gun. Consider making sure you use NEW BRASS with CRIMPED PRIMERS if you push an 8" gun that hard. A puked primer under the trigger is a game stopper. And consider operating temperature. Those powders that make those kind of velocities are usually very temperature-sensitive. Fine in the winter, then extruding case-heads at the ejector and the extractor in hot weather. I back it off at the first sign of case-head extrusion. Especially if the gun is supposed to be a "fighting rifle." An extra 100 fps means little in a gunfight. A gun that only gets off one shot before it gets tied up from a primer under the trigger is a liability. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 8:08:56 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can get those velocities from an 8-inch. But you need to take a close look at your brass if you do. You are at the upper-upper range of pressure before you start puking primers at that point in an 8-inch gun. Consider making sure you use NEW BRASS with CRIMPED PRIMERS if you push an 8" gun that hard. A puked primer under the trigger is a game stopper. And consider operating temperature. Those powders that make those kind of velocities are usually very temperature-sensitive. Fine in the winter, then extruding case-heads at the ejector and the extractor in hot weather. I back it off at the first sign of case-head extrusion. Especially if the gun is supposed to be a "fighting rifle." An extra 100 fps means little in a gunfight. A gun that only gets off one shot before it gets tied up from a primer under the trigger is a liability. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 2100 fps with 110gr rounds is pretty easy to reach out of pistol length barrels, unless you are talking super shorties. Anything 8 inches or above with good ammo should hit that. My Wilson Combat loaded 110gr Tac-tx clocked in at 2261 fps out of my 10.5" and 2213 out of my 9". I could not chorno my 7.5" due to the gas block, but I suspect that would have been above 2100 fps. You can get those velocities from an 8-inch. But you need to take a close look at your brass if you do. You are at the upper-upper range of pressure before you start puking primers at that point in an 8-inch gun. Consider making sure you use NEW BRASS with CRIMPED PRIMERS if you push an 8" gun that hard. A puked primer under the trigger is a game stopper. And consider operating temperature. Those powders that make those kind of velocities are usually very temperature-sensitive. Fine in the winter, then extruding case-heads at the ejector and the extractor in hot weather. I back it off at the first sign of case-head extrusion. Especially if the gun is supposed to be a "fighting rifle." An extra 100 fps means little in a gunfight. A gun that only gets off one shot before it gets tied up from a primer under the trigger is a liability. If you're near the edge, one of those trigger well covers (whatever they're called), might be worth looking into, to prevent a popped primer locking up the gun. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 8:16:25 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Both of which are absolutely pathetic if you are just using math to generate numbers to represent "bullet energy." Whatever "bullet energy" is supposed to represent. Its always about shot-placement and bullet performance. Both of which have practically nothing to do with "bullet energy." How about barrier performance? |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 8:41:42 PM EDT
[#33]
My 300bo serves one purpose and only one.
Home defense at very close quarters. It's compact, quiet (not gonna blow my eardrums out at 1am if need be) and it's a very familiar platform. For SHTF? I'll grab just about anything before I grab my blackout. I'd rather have my 30-30 than my 300bo. Shtf. You're never going to find 300bo around. Dependably never. So you're stuck with a cal that's rare. That, to me, disqualifies it immediately. It's a special-purpose cartridge. For a very narrow band of applications. Definitely NOT a SHTF gun. And it's supremely pointless if you don't have a suppressor. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 9:27:57 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about barrier performance? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Both of which are absolutely pathetic if you are just using math to generate numbers to represent "bullet energy." Whatever "bullet energy" is supposed to represent. Its always about shot-placement and bullet performance. Both of which have practically nothing to do with "bullet energy." How about barrier performance? I have no idea. I would expect neither 5.56 or 300BLK to be anything special. If you are planning on shooting at things behind objects, big bullets at high velocity do better. Simple physics. Don't waste time splitting hairs. Go big, and go fast, if you are shooting through walls. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 9:47:42 PM EDT
[#35]
Was just talking to my buddy about this.
He's thinking of dumping his 7.5" 300BLK upper to buy 308 ammo for his new SFAR. I have a 6" 300BLK "Purse Gun 2.0" that has a very specific use, to be concealable (18.5" OAL) in a backpack and help me and the wife get home during a societal disturbance. In that case, it's a "use it to get home then switch to something else" gun. I told him that he could use his for the same. My 8" "PHoney Badger" is just a bigger version that I built because I like it. "Purse Gun 1.0" was an almost identical 8" with a Law Tactical folding brace but I didn't like that it wouldn't function without unfolding. Sold it. My next one will be a 9" FM-15 "Purse Gun 3.0" with folding stock, the same size, folded, as the other Purse Guns with more ass in each round. Once I get home, I have a 10.5" and 16" 5.56, AK-47, 16" 308, 10.5" KS-47 and other more practical choices. The other "Pack Gun" is a POF Rogue 308 with a Cry Havoc Tactical QRB kit that also stows in 18.5" of space, like the Purse Guns, but must be assembled to work. Yeah, I'm LARPing too hard... |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 9:48:18 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have no idea. I would expect neither 5.56 or 300BLK to be anything special. If you are planning on shooting at things behind objects, big bullets at high velocity do better. Simple physics. Don't waste time splitting hairs. Go big, and go fast, if you are shooting through walls. Depends on the barrier I suppose. Concrete? 5.56 or 300bo isn't gonna be your jam. Wood or sheet metal? You're fine, blast away. Even ball will punch through with some authority. I know by experience that a 300bo will go straight through 4 sheets of drywall, 2 2x4's, and a sheet of plywood before denting a metal pipe and coming to a rest. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 9:51:19 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Depends on the barrier I suppose. Concrete? 5.56 or 300bo isn't gonna be your jam. Wood or sheet metal? You're fine, blast away. Even ball will punch through with some authority. I know by experience that a 300bo will go straight through 4 sheets of drywall, 2 2x4's, and a sheet of plywood before denting a metal pipe and coming to a rest. Story time! Do tell... |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 10:05:32 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Story time! Do tell... I don't like telling this one too much, but it's not GD so... I had bought a brand new lower, decided I wanted my 300bo upper on it. I took my 300 upper off the rifle it was on, and slapped it on the new lower. No magazine. Safety was off. Pulled the trigger for no good fucking reason and blam. ETA (it was more like blam) Put a round through my basement ceiling, through the flooring upstairs, through a upstairs closet door, through a shelf in the closet, through the closet wall (drywall, both sheets and a 2x4) into an adjoining closet, where it hit a clothes hanger rod with enough force to dent it. Long story short, I fucked up and it shook me up really bad.  But I know, for sure, that 300bo will defeat common household barriers, plenty spicy for that. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 10:31:24 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't like telling this one too much, but it's not GD so... I had bought a brand new lower, decided I wanted my 300bo upper on it. I took my 300 upper off the rifle it was on, and slapped it on the new lower. No magazine. Safety was off. Pulled the trigger for no good fucking reason and blam. ETA (it was more like blam) Put a round through my basement ceiling, through the flooring upstairs, through a upstairs closet door, through a shelf in the closet, through the closet wall (drywall, both sheets and a 2x4) into an adjoining closet, where it hit a clothes hanger rod with enough force to dent it. Long story short, I fucked up and it shook me up really bad. But I know, for sure, that 300bo will defeat common household barriers, plenty spicy for that. First of all, thanks for sharing. Seriously. Second...which projectile? |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 10:40:14 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Finding a high quality personal defense projectile, which consistently expands subsonic is my biggest concern. Not the price - which is crazy expensive. The other issue I have is finding load data to use as a starting point for a suppressed SBR. All of the load data I can find is for a 16” carbine. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If components were cheaper, I roll with just 300BO. I like how it anchors medium game. I like how quiet it is suppressed subsonic. Not at easy to hit targets beyond 500 yards as 5.56 (talking supers here). But there will never be a real life scenario where I'm shooting 5.56 beyond 500 yards at anything important anyways... To me, cost is the only downside. Even as a reloader, damn 30 cal bullets are expensive. Finding a high quality personal defense projectile, which consistently expands subsonic is my biggest concern. Not the price - which is crazy expensive. The other issue I have is finding load data to use as a starting point for a suppressed SBR. All of the load data I can find is for a 16” carbine. That’s half the fun with reloading, trial and error. There is no shortage of available info for SBR loads either, you just likely won’t find a ton in manufacturer produced literature. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 10:48:24 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can get those velocities from an 8-inch. But you need to take a close look at your brass if you do. You are at the upper-upper range of pressure before you start puking primers at that point in an 8-inch gun. Consider making sure you use NEW BRASS with CRIMPED PRIMERS if you push an 8" gun that hard. A puked primer under the trigger is a game stopper. And consider operating temperature. Those powders that make those kind of velocities are usually very temperature-sensitive. Fine in the winter, then extruding case-heads at the ejector and the extractor in hot weather. I back it off at the first sign of case-head extrusion. Especially if the gun is supposed to be a "fighting rifle." An extra 100 fps means little in a gunfight. A gun that only gets off one shot before it gets tied up from a primer under the trigger is a liability. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 2100 fps with 110gr rounds is pretty easy to reach out of pistol length barrels, unless you are talking super shorties. Anything 8 inches or above with good ammo should hit that. My Wilson Combat loaded 110gr Tac-tx clocked in at 2261 fps out of my 10.5" and 2213 out of my 9". I could not chorno my 7.5" due to the gas block, but I suspect that would have been above 2100 fps. You can get those velocities from an 8-inch. But you need to take a close look at your brass if you do. You are at the upper-upper range of pressure before you start puking primers at that point in an 8-inch gun. Consider making sure you use NEW BRASS with CRIMPED PRIMERS if you push an 8" gun that hard. A puked primer under the trigger is a game stopper. And consider operating temperature. Those powders that make those kind of velocities are usually very temperature-sensitive. Fine in the winter, then extruding case-heads at the ejector and the extractor in hot weather. I back it off at the first sign of case-head extrusion. Especially if the gun is supposed to be a "fighting rifle." An extra 100 fps means little in a gunfight. A gun that only gets off one shot before it gets tied up from a primer under the trigger is a liability. I'm not sure why you think 2100fps to 2150fps out of an 8" barrel is hard on brass. In my experience, it is not. If you chronograph factory Hornady Black 110gr Vmax or Barnes Vor-Tx 110gr Tac-Tx you'll find it is in that range also. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 10:51:41 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: May I ask why? It isn't so much that a 10.3"/10.5" 5.56 does not work (it has clearly worked over the years), but what do you feel it does better than the same length barrel in 300blk (in doing things that one usually does with a 10"ish barrel). I'm asking only because when I originally got into 300blk, I thought the 10.5" and longer barrel lengths were the dumbest things ever (outside of the specifically built 16" barrels). I've changed my mind on that, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts on it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In a 10” gun I’m choosing 5.56. It’s well within the operating envelope of modern 5.56 loads. May I ask why? It isn't so much that a 10.3"/10.5" 5.56 does not work (it has clearly worked over the years), but what do you feel it does better than the same length barrel in 300blk (in doing things that one usually does with a 10"ish barrel). I'm asking only because when I originally got into 300blk, I thought the 10.5" and longer barrel lengths were the dumbest things ever (outside of the specifically built 16" barrels). I've changed my mind on that, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts on it. Performance isn’t the sole factor, as ammo cost is a consideration, but if I’m carrying a gun that long, I want something that has a flatter trajectory. You can play with zero distances to compensate, but holdovers/unders at intermediate ranges start to become a little wonky. Most 5.56 cans are shorter in length as well, so that is a factor when barrels start getting longer. Sure, you can get shorter cans, but you can still find something shorter in 5.56. That’s doubly so for me as I only have two suppressors and my 5.56 can is almost 2” shorter (which is more of a personal preference than anything else). I’ll keep my .300BLK guns in the “super short” range (my two are a 5” and a 5.5”). |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 10:54:52 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A 10" 300blk (with 110gr supers) has the same energy as a 16" 5.56. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Despite the hype, the exterior ballistic performance of .300 BO has never impressed me. I’ve never found any particular reason to have one considering that there are so many superior options. Ok. I want 9-10" barrel PDW. What do? Platform/caliber/ammunition? In a 10” gun I’m choosing 5.56. It’s well within the operating envelope of modern 5.56 loads. A 10" 300blk (with 110gr supers) has the same energy as a 16" 5.56. Energy is a bit of a dubious metric as there isn’t necessarily a super huge link between energy and true terminal performance. There’s just a ton of other factors that go into it. When I’m talking about “performance envelope” I’m talking about reasonable velocity levels that are workable with modern defensive/hunting projectiles. Shorter than 9”-10” and that envelope starts closing rather rapidly with 5.56. Not so much with .300BLK. Above that, I’ll take the performance enhancements you get with the higher velocities you’ll see out of a 5.56 gun over the increased muzzle energy. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 10:56:09 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about barrier performance? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Both of which are absolutely pathetic if you are just using math to generate numbers to represent "bullet energy." Whatever "bullet energy" is supposed to represent. Its always about shot-placement and bullet performance. Both of which have practically nothing to do with "bullet energy." How about barrier performance? There are .224 projectiles that perform well through intermediate barriers. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 10:59:44 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My 300bo serves one purpose and only one. Home defense at very close quarters. It's compact, quiet (not gonna blow my eardrums out at 1am if need be) and it's a very familiar platform. For SHTF? I'll grab just about anything before I grab my blackout. I'd rather have my 30-30 than my 300bo. Shtf. You're never going to find 300bo around. Dependably never. So you're stuck with a cal that's rare. That, to me, disqualifies it immediately. It's a special-purpose cartridge. For a very narrow band of applications. Definitely NOT a SHTF gun. And it's supremely pointless if you don't have a suppressor. I see more .300BLK ammo on the shelves than I see .30-30. Realistically, ammo availability is on the low end of the priority list SHTF wise. You’re either staying in your current location (where you should have more than enough ammo available) or you’re moving to a location that you’ve already prepared (so you should have more than enough ammo). I’m not sure why everyone thinks they’re burning through thousands of rounds of ammo in their “SHTF” fantasy either, but I suppose that’s a discussion for another thread. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 11:02:13 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: First of all, thanks for sharing. Seriously. Second...which projectile? Hornady ELD-X 200gr over I forget what amount of Lil Gun...not much though. Shitty mspaint  Attached FileThe round  Attached FileI used to have pictures of the damage but I think I deleted them. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 11:07:51 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I see more .300BLK ammo on the shelves than I see .30-30. Realistically, ammo availability is on the low end of the priority list SHTF wise. You’re either staying in your current location (where you should have more than enough ammo available) or you’re moving to a location that you’ve already prepared (so you should have more than enough ammo). I’m not sure why everyone thinks they’re burning through thousands of rounds of ammo in their “SHTF” fantasy either, but I suppose that’s a discussion for another thread. Agreed and agreed. I say that for my fantasy scenario. The topic of the thread was a 300bo for shtf battle rifle. My response is tailored to that - ie, I'd never grab my 300bo for general purpose shtf. Special purpose? Sure. My main bitch? No. Not by a long shot. |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 11:17:10 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hornady ELD-X 200gr over I forget what amount of Lil Gun...not much though. Shitty mspaint https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/495533/NG20230426-085127_png-2797130.JPG The round https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/495533/20230426_205717_jpg-2797131.JPG I used to have pictures of the damage but I think I deleted them. So, a sub. @GreyBeardBiker this is what I warned you about in your other thread. Subs do not save your ass from over penetration. Get 110gr and do it right.  |
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Posted: 4/26/2023 11:19:15 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hornady ELD-X 200gr over I forget what amount of Lil Gun...not much though. Shitty mspaint https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/495533/NG20230426-085127_png-2797130.JPG The round https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/495533/20230426_205717_jpg-2797131.JPG I used to have pictures of the damage but I think I deleted them. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: First of all, thanks for sharing. Seriously. Second...which projectile? Hornady ELD-X 200gr over I forget what amount of Lil Gun...not much though. Shitty mspaint https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/495533/NG20230426-085127_png-2797130.JPG The round https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/495533/20230426_205717_jpg-2797131.JPG I used to have pictures of the damage but I think I deleted them. For reference, I had an M193 projectile make it through the front door of a refrigerator at a shallow angle, through to the near side panel of the refrigerator, frag inside the insulation, blow a baseball sized hole out the side panel, frag into the door of the adjacent cabinet, and get stopped by the stack of folded towels directly on the other side. Yours performed much more admirably in the “intermediate barrier penetration” category. 
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Posted: 4/26/2023 11:21:00 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, a sub. @GreyBeardBiker this is what I warned you about in your other thread. Subs do not save your ass from over penetration. Get 110gr and do it right. Yeah, a sub. I can't remember the powder charge. I know they were riiiiight on the edge though. I think that batch chrono'd at like 1000fps flat or something like that. |
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