User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 6/19/2021 12:08:58 PM EDT
[#1]
In for info. Too bad it never took off.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/19/2021 12:38:42 PM EDT
[#2]
with all due respect perhaps you should just get a 6.8 SPC
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/19/2021 12:53:15 PM EDT
[#3]
300 HAM'R would be a lot easier if you are looking for a fairly quick 30 cal. Brass is easy and uses standard mags.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/19/2021 1:02:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: with all due respect perhaps you should just get a 6.8 SPC This. Too bad 6.8 and 30AR aren't more popular. What do they have in common? You already mentioned it: Remington/Freedom Group/Cerberus |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/19/2021 2:11:03 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: I know it's a "dead round" (I swear, Remington's Management Team was so inept they could fall in a barrel of tits and come up sucking their own thumb!) but for reloaders it's still one of the most attractive, honest to Buddha big game rounds you can put in the AR15 platform. Since it's a lot more than just a barrel swap, putting one together is a lot more challenging than other 223 based rounds. Does anyone know of a source for the uppers and bolt assemblies? Thanks, in advance, Gos. PS. Sure wish Ruger would put one together. I'm sure someone owns the patent on the 30 Remington AR design, but just lengthen the throat a few thousands and rename it to the 30AR Blackhawk and you're up and running. Renaming sure launched the 300 Whisper! Actually since it is a SAAMI round you can make all the 30 Remington AR's you want. No need to change anything period. Every bit of the specs and technology are free market. The Grendel went open source the second it was SAAMI'd as did the 300 BLK/Whisper You cannot hold a patent or trademark on any SAAMI cartridge. Bill Alexander had to give up his strangle hold because of those rules. Greg |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/19/2021 2:31:02 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually since it is a SAAMI round you can make all the 30 Remington AR's you want. No need to change anything period. Every bit of the specs and technology are free market. The Grendel went open source the second it was SAAMI'd as did the 300 BLK/Whisper You cannot hold a patent or trademark on any SAAMI cartridge. Bil Alexander had to give up his strangle hold because of those rules. Greg Problem with the 30 RAR was it had proprietary parts like the BCG, Extension and possibly even the upper receiver(vaguely remember it being different) So that makes it a dead upon arrival for anyone wanting one now. Now I think (key word here) you could probably buy an Olympic arms 22-250 BCG/Extension and build a 30 RAR off those parts. An easier approach would be a 30 Grendel or 30 HRT (6.5g based and 6.8spc based) Performance will be close with the sub 125gr bullets, but the RAR has more ass if you looking to creep towards the 150gr realm. Depends what your really after. I have a stash of 30 RAR brass tucked away for if I feel like scratching a 6.5 variant one day. The 22-250 BCG/Extension would be the approach I'd try if I ever got around to doing it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/19/2021 3:10:56 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Problem with the 30 RAR was it had proprietary parts like the BCG, Extension and possibly even the upper receiver(vaguely remember it being different) So that makes it a dead upon arrival for anyone wanting one now. Now I think (key word here) you could probably buy an Olympic arms 22-250 BCG/Extension and build a 30 RAR off those parts. An easier approach would be a 30 Grendel or 30 HRT (6.5g based and 6.8spc based) Performance will be close with the sub 125gr bullets, but the RAR has more ass if you looking to creep towards the 150gr realm. Depends what your really after. I have a stash of 30 RAR brass tucked away for if I feel like scratching a 6.5 variant one day. The 22-250 BCG/Extension would be the approach I'd try if I ever got around to doing it. Throw enough money at it and you can have anything. If a guy had his own machine shop and was talented he would be a major leg up in the process. At least the bolt face is doable. I have a 30 Grendel and wil encroach on the low end on this cartridge close enough that you probably wouldn't notice in most applications. The 30 Grendel will run over the top of the HRT in velocities IMHO based on my comparison of the two I use. Greg |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/19/2021 3:23:10 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually since it is a SAAMI round you can make all the 30 Remington AR's you want. No need to change anything period. Every bit of the specs and technology are free market. The Grendel went open source the second it was SAAMI'd as did the 300 BLK/Whisper You cannot hold a patent or trademark on any SAAMI cartridge. Bil Alexander had to give up his strangle hold because of those rules. Greg I learned something new today. Thanks! |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2021 2:29:54 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: with all due respect perhaps you should just get a 6.8 SPC The 30RAR really is by far superior for the hunting I do, under 300 yards, and carries a heavy enough bullet for those few times I come across a bear or draw an elk tag. The way I look at it, if enough noise is made about the 30RAR then someone might bring it back into production. The more hunting rounds for the AR15 platform the better for us all. For those in the know, are the 284 Winchester and the 30RAR close enough in terms of inside dimensions close enough to build the 30RAR off of? I know the rims are a bit different, but the case OD is spot on. Thanks, and a happy father's day to all. Gos |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2021 2:49:51 PM EDT
[#10]
We do this thread every couple years. Last time we did it the concern was hoop strength.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2021 2:55:22 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We do this thread every couple years. Last time we did it the concern was hoop strength. Him Who Shall Not Be Named was making larger bolts and matching extensions that still fit a normal AR upper a while back. I'm pretty sure he doesn't sell them as parts anymore. Which is really too bad, because that was bridging the gap between the large frame very nicely. I have one in my Grendel, and I can push bolt gun loads through it with no issue. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2021 3:29:01 PM EDT
[#12]
Nice. What did he charge for that combo?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2021 3:51:41 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nice. What did he charge for that combo? It wasn't really much more than what an extension and bolt would go for. I think it was $150, maybe? But it's been awhile. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/20/2021 5:11:22 PM EDT
[#14]
Could use a POF upper, extension, & bolt on an AR lower. Pricey, though.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2021 12:36:15 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually since it is a SAAMI round you can make all the 30 Remington AR's you want. No need to change anything period. Every bit of the specs and technology are free market. The Grendel went open source the second it was SAAMI'd as did the 300 BLK/Whisper You cannot hold a patent or trademark on any SAAMI cartridge. Bill Alexander had to give up his strangle hold because of those rules. Greg 30 Remington brass would be the problem. Without a commercial source you end up like a wildcatter. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2021 1:18:39 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 30 Remington brass would be the problem. Without a commercial source you end up like a wildcatter. Yep a 284 case and a lathe will be the salvation there but I suspect a run of the brass will be made periodically just like the other semi-orphan cartridges. Greg |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2021 1:23:39 PM EDT
[#17]
30 RAR is a cool cartridge. I have arguably the last 30 Remington AR ever assemble, at least from Remington parts (built early 2020). I hunted with it last season, did not get a deer but did get a nice bobcat and a few armadillo.
 My scrap bin rifle. Random thoughts... The upper, bolt, barrel extension and magazine were all proprietary. 450 Bushmaster magazines with minor changes to the follower and maybe tweaked feed lips will work. I have a couple of the original 4rd magazines and, an a couple original 5-rd 450 Bushmaster magazines that after hacking on the follower are reliable 7 rd magazines. 30 Remington AR is based on 284 Win or 450 Bushmaster but for some reason Remington enlarged what was initially a fairly heavily rebated rim. 30 RAR is .492 case head diameter (284/450 is .473), not may other cartridges share that 30 RAR case head diameter. The new Vista owned Remington Ammunition still list one 30 RAR load (150gr Core-lokt) so there is some hope that more ammunition is still in the pipeline. (https://www.remington.com/rifle/core-lokt/29-29485.html) It would be interesting to form 30 RAR from 450 Bushmaster and use a 450 Bushmaster's bolt and barrel extension. The problem is 450 Bushmaster is only a 38.5 ksi cartridge where 30 RAR is a 55 ksi cartridge. Probably shear off bolt lugs pretty fast in an AR. Would work well in a re-barreled 450 BM bolt gun but then you are basically wildcatting the brass. The original 30 RAR bolt was based on a DPMS LR-308 bolt lug pattern but the body was made to ride in a standard AR-15 bolt carrier. One of the lower lugs was truncated to facilitate feeding from the funky left side only magazine. 30 RAR is significantly more cartridge than 300 HAM'R. With 150 gr bullets 300 HAM'R does ~2100 fps and with 30 RAR ~2600 fps. With 125 gr bullets 300 HAM'R does ~2500 fps and with 30 RAR ~2900 fps. Its a real bastard of a cartridge but I am having fun with mine. I am looking forward to reloading for it when I shoot up the batch of factory ammo I have been running in it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2021 3:13:10 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 30 RAR is a cool cartridge. I have arguably the last 30 Remington AR ever assemble, at least from Remington parts (built early 2020). I hunted with it last season, did not get a deer but did get a nice bobcat and a few armadillo. https://i.imgur.com/VuCzkhCl.jpg My scrap bin rifle. Random thoughts... The upper, bolt, barrel extension and magazine were all proprietary. 450 Bushmaster magazines with minor changes to the follower and maybe tweaked feed lips will work. I have a couple of the original 4rd magazines and, an a couple original 5-rd 450 Bushmaster magazines that after hacking on the follower are reliable 7 rd magazines. 30 Remington AR is based on 284 Win or 450 Bushmaster but for some reason Remington enlarged what was initially a fairly heavily rebated rim. 30 RAR is .492 case head diameter (284/450 is .473), not may other cartridges share that 30 RAR case head diameter. The new Vista owned Remington Ammunition still list one 30 RAR load (150gr Core-lokt) so there is some hope that more ammunition is still in the pipeline. (https://www.remington.com/rifle/core-lokt/29-29485.html) It would be interesting to form 30 RAR from 450 Bushmaster and use a 450 Bushmaster's bolt and barrel extension. The problem is 450 Bushmaster is only a 38.5 ksi cartridge where 30 RAR is a 55 ksi cartridge. Probably shear off bolt lugs pretty fast in an AR. Would work well in a re-barreled 450 BM bolt gun but then you are basically wildcatting the brass. IIRC, the problem is not the bolt lugs, it's that you've run out of hoop strength w/ such a large diameter cartridge, hence why Remington went w/ essentially a .308 bbl extension, and why the big-bore AR cartridges are limited in pressure. You could use a POF .308 upper, bolt, & bbl extension, but @ that point, why not just run .308? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2021 3:38:52 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IIRC, the problem is not the bolt lugs, it's that you've run out of hoop strength w/ such a large diameter cartridge, hence why Remington went w/ essentially a .308 bbl extension, and why the big-bore AR cartridges are limited in pressure. You could use a POF .308 upper, bolt, & bbl extension, but @ that point, why not just run .308? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 30 RAR is a cool cartridge. I have arguably the last 30 Remington AR ever assemble, at least from Remington parts (built early 2020). I hunted with it last season, did not get a deer but did get a nice bobcat and a few armadillo. https://i.imgur.com/VuCzkhCl.jpg My scrap bin rifle. Random thoughts... The upper, bolt, barrel extension and magazine were all proprietary. 450 Bushmaster magazines with minor changes to the follower and maybe tweaked feed lips will work. I have a couple of the original 4rd magazines and, an a couple original 5-rd 450 Bushmaster magazines that after hacking on the follower are reliable 7 rd magazines. 30 Remington AR is based on 284 Win or 450 Bushmaster but for some reason Remington enlarged what was initially a fairly heavily rebated rim. 30 RAR is .492 case head diameter (284/450 is .473), not may other cartridges share that 30 RAR case head diameter. The new Vista owned Remington Ammunition still list one 30 RAR load (150gr Core-lokt) so there is some hope that more ammunition is still in the pipeline. (https://www.remington.com/rifle/core-lokt/29-29485.html) It would be interesting to form 30 RAR from 450 Bushmaster and use a 450 Bushmaster's bolt and barrel extension. The problem is 450 Bushmaster is only a 38.5 ksi cartridge where 30 RAR is a 55 ksi cartridge. Probably shear off bolt lugs pretty fast in an AR. Would work well in a re-barreled 450 BM bolt gun but then you are basically wildcatting the brass. IIRC, the problem is not the bolt lugs, it's that you've run out of hoop strength w/ such a large diameter cartridge, hence why Remington went w/ essentially a .308 bbl extension, and why the big-bore AR cartridges are limited in pressure. You could use a POF .308 upper, bolt, & bbl extension, but @ that point, why not just run .308? I think it's likely both hoop stress in the chamber and bolt thrust. If you do the bolt thrust calculation 450 Bushmaster at 38.5ksi is putting similar both thrust on the lugs as 5.56 does at 62 ksi. Going to a bolt and barrel extension similar to the LR-308 solves both of those potential problems. ETA: More pics for the curious  Left: 30 RAR, Right: Standard  Left: 30 RAR, Right: Standard  Left: 30 RAR, Middle: 450 BM Right: Standard  Left: 4 rd 30 RAR, Right: 7 rd Converted 450 BM  Left: 4rd 30 RAR, Middle: 450 BM, Right: Standard  Left: 4rd 30 RAR, Middle: 450 BM with modified follow for 30 RAR (notice the ramp filed in near the front), Right: Standard |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2021 8:29:23 PM EDT
[#20]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2021 8:43:07 PM EDT
[#21]
MCB do you happen to have a side profile comparison of the BCG. Boy those are some burly lugs!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2021 8:50:50 PM EDT
[#22]
Concerns about hoop stress are overblown. T/C Encores are 1.05 at the breech and chamber belted magnums.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2021 9:08:02 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Concerns about hoop stress are overblown. T/C Encores are 1.05 at the breech and chamber belted magnums. IIRC Julian Hatcher turned some 03 barrels down to 1/16” thickness over the chamber and fed it proof loads. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2021 9:10:25 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: MCB do you happen to have a side profile comparison of the BCG. Boy those are some burly lugs!  Top: Standard BCG, Bottom: 30 RAR BCG The 30 RAR runs on a standard Bolt Carrier. When I gather the parts for mine I just use an AR-15 (non-fullauto) Bolt Carrier.  Left: 30 RAR, Right: Standard (notice that truncated lug has no locking surface on the back side)  Left: 30 RAR, Right: Standard |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2021 11:49:10 PM EDT
[#25]
Awesome pics! Thanks
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2021 7:00:38 PM EDT
[#26]
I still use mine for Black Bear hunting.
100-300 yards it's still the meanest SAAMI spec small frame AR round ever produced. I have two pet loads with AA2200, 125 TMK going 2900 and a 150 Nosler Accubond going 2720. Nothing to sneeze at.  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2021 7:51:06 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IIRC Julian Hatcher turned some 03 barrels down to 1/16” thickness over the chamber and fed it proof loads. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Concerns about hoop stress are overblown. T/C Encores are 1.05 at the breech and chamber belted magnums. IIRC Julian Hatcher turned some 03 barrels down to 1/16” thickness over the chamber and fed it proof loads. Julian Hatcher did most of the things we argue about before most of us were born |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2021 7:52:47 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I still use mine for Black Bear hunting. 100-300 yards it's still the meanest SAAMI spec small frame AR round ever produced. I have two pet loads worth AA2200, 125 TMK going 2900 and a 150 Nosler Accubond going 2720. Nothing to sneeze at. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/472175/20200804_141652_jpg-1989031.JPG |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2021 9:06:09 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Julian Hatcher did most of the things we argue about before most of us were born Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Concerns about hoop stress are overblown. T/C Encores are 1.05 at the breech and chamber belted magnums. IIRC Julian Hatcher turned some 03 barrels down to 1/16” thickness over the chamber and fed it proof loads. Julian Hatcher did most of the things we argue about before most of us were born At least he had the sense to write it down. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/25/2021 1:05:30 PM EDT
[#30]
Great Information All!
I guess my nest step is to start bugging the new Remington Owners for getting back into the game. The round configuration may be open source, but that upper is all Remington's. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/25/2021 1:26:31 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Great Information All! I guess my nest step is to start bugging the new Remington Owners for getting back into the game. The round configuration may be open source, but that upper is all Remington's. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/25/2021 4:23:34 PM EDT
[#32]
Well, let's hope they learned from their mistakes and are ready to make some money in the AR market.
I really don't see the 30RAR as a niche market. If you take away the WSSM uppers, this round is the best hunting round for a normal AR15 lower that's ever been standardized. Obviously hunting with the AR15 is no longer a niche market. Why not produce the best product out there? As far as Biden goes it all depends what is placed in front of him by his handlers to read. Just think of the fun you could have if you could hack into his teleprompter! He'd read "There once was a young lady from Nantucket..." and not even realize it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/25/2021 5:39:23 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Great Information All! I guess my nest step is to start bugging the new Remington Owners for getting back into the game. The round configuration may be open source, but that upper is all Remington's. Dude, just get a POF. The .30 RAR was a software solution to a problem that has now been solved w/ hardware. Remington dropped the RAR when they introduced the DPMS Gen 2, which was their hardware solution, & the POF is lighter than the DPMS Gen 2. You could build a .30 RAR w/ POF parts - but just shoot 6.5 Creedmoor or .308 from the POF. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/25/2021 8:21:36 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, let's hope they learned from their mistakes and are ready to make some money in the AR market. I really don't see the 30RAR as a niche market. If you take away the WSSM uppers, this round is the best hunting round for a normal AR15 lower that's ever been standardized. Obviously hunting with the AR15 is no longer a niche market. Why not produce the best product out there? As far as Biden goes it all depends what is placed in front of him by his handlers to read. Just think of the fun you could have if you could hack into his teleprompter! He'd read "There once was a young lady from Nantucket..." and not even realize it. I think the biggest reason why it failed is that it used so many proprietary parts for a platform that was all about common parts. If they could have figure out how to make it work on a standard upper with only a proprietary bolt and maybe magazine (like 450 BM and others). I think it would still be going strong today but the proprietary upper, oversized bolt and barrel extension sort of doomed the cartridge for many. Maybe if Remington had uses this upper and cartridge as parent for a few other cartridges (imaging 450 BM loaded to 55 KSI like 30 RAR or a 20 or 22 caliber hot rod on this parent cartridge  ) then maybe that could have given this weird configuration more legs but Remington as usually orphaned the cartridge and gun before a very large part of the market even had a chance to realize it was there.6.5 Creedmore and 30 Remington AR were introduced the same year 2008. Think about that and how different a path those two cartridges trod. Remington gave up on the gun and cartridge by 2013, stopping production of guns and only running small annual batches of ammo. Hornady on the other hand in 2013 was still nursing 6.5 CM along as a niche cartridge for years more until the market realized what it was and it became a success and broadly accepted cartridge. It has spun off at least one other cartridge (6mm CM) that is a success in its own right. 6.5 CM was not an overnight success it was a long road to the success. A chance Remington never gave the 30 RAR. Remington was pretty good at ruining promising cartridges. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/25/2021 11:43:35 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think the biggest reason why it failed is that it used so many proprietary parts for a platform that was all about common parts. If they could have figure out how to make it work on a standard upper with only a proprietary bolt and maybe magazine (like 450 BM and others). I think it would still be going strong today but the proprietary upper, oversized bolt and barrel extension sort of doomed the cartridge for many. Maybe if Remington had uses this upper and cartridge as parent for a few other cartridges (imaging 450 BM loaded to 55 KSI like 30 RAR or a 20 or 22 caliber hot rod on this parent cartridge ) then maybe that could have given this weird configuration more legs but Remington as usually orphaned the cartridge and gun before a very large part of the market even had a chance to realize it was there.6.5 Creedmore and 30 Remington AR were introduced the same year 2008. Think about that and how different a path those two cartridges trod. Remington gave up on the gun and cartridge by 2013, stopping production of guns and only running small annual batches of ammo. Hornady on the other hand in 2013 was still nursing 6.5 CM along as a niche cartridge for years more until the market realized what it was and it became a success and broadly accepted cartridge. It has spun off at least one other cartridge (6mm CM) that is a success in its own right. 6.5 CM was not an overnight success it was a long road to the success. A chance Remington never gave the 30 RAR. Remington was pretty good at ruining promising cartridges. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Well, let's hope they learned from their mistakes and are ready to make some money in the AR market. I really don't see the 30RAR as a niche market. If you take away the WSSM uppers, this round is the best hunting round for a normal AR15 lower that's ever been standardized. Obviously hunting with the AR15 is no longer a niche market. Why not produce the best product out there? As far as Biden goes it all depends what is placed in front of him by his handlers to read. Just think of the fun you could have if you could hack into his teleprompter! He'd read "There once was a young lady from Nantucket..." and not even realize it. I think the biggest reason why it failed is that it used so many proprietary parts for a platform that was all about common parts. If they could have figure out how to make it work on a standard upper with only a proprietary bolt and maybe magazine (like 450 BM and others). I think it would still be going strong today but the proprietary upper, oversized bolt and barrel extension sort of doomed the cartridge for many. Maybe if Remington had uses this upper and cartridge as parent for a few other cartridges (imaging 450 BM loaded to 55 KSI like 30 RAR or a 20 or 22 caliber hot rod on this parent cartridge ) then maybe that could have given this weird configuration more legs but Remington as usually orphaned the cartridge and gun before a very large part of the market even had a chance to realize it was there.6.5 Creedmore and 30 Remington AR were introduced the same year 2008. Think about that and how different a path those two cartridges trod. Remington gave up on the gun and cartridge by 2013, stopping production of guns and only running small annual batches of ammo. Hornady on the other hand in 2013 was still nursing 6.5 CM along as a niche cartridge for years more until the market realized what it was and it became a success and broadly accepted cartridge. It has spun off at least one other cartridge (6mm CM) that is a success in its own right. 6.5 CM was not an overnight success it was a long road to the success. A chance Remington never gave the 30 RAR. Remington was pretty good at ruining promising cartridges. The Creedmoor is even more of an object lesson for Remington. It would have never existed if Remington HAD DONE THEIR JOB with the .260. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2021 7:48:29 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Creedmoor is even more of an object lesson for Remington. It would have never existed if Remington HAD DONE THEIR JOB with the .260. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well, let's hope they learned from their mistakes and are ready to make some money in the AR market. I really don't see the 30RAR as a niche market. If you take away the WSSM uppers, this round is the best hunting round for a normal AR15 lower that's ever been standardized. Obviously hunting with the AR15 is no longer a niche market. Why not produce the best product out there? As far as Biden goes it all depends what is placed in front of him by his handlers to read. Just think of the fun you could have if you could hack into his teleprompter! He'd read "There once was a young lady from Nantucket..." and not even realize it. I think the biggest reason why it failed is that it used so many proprietary parts for a platform that was all about common parts. If they could have figure out how to make it work on a standard upper with only a proprietary bolt and maybe magazine (like 450 BM and others). I think it would still be going strong today but the proprietary upper, oversized bolt and barrel extension sort of doomed the cartridge for many. Maybe if Remington had uses this upper and cartridge as parent for a few other cartridges (imaging 450 BM loaded to 55 KSI like 30 RAR or a 20 or 22 caliber hot rod on this parent cartridge ) then maybe that could have given this weird configuration more legs but Remington as usually orphaned the cartridge and gun before a very large part of the market even had a chance to realize it was there.6.5 Creedmore and 30 Remington AR were introduced the same year 2008. Think about that and how different a path those two cartridges trod. Remington gave up on the gun and cartridge by 2013, stopping production of guns and only running small annual batches of ammo. Hornady on the other hand in 2013 was still nursing 6.5 CM along as a niche cartridge for years more until the market realized what it was and it became a success and broadly accepted cartridge. It has spun off at least one other cartridge (6mm CM) that is a success in its own right. 6.5 CM was not an overnight success it was a long road to the success. A chance Remington never gave the 30 RAR. Remington was pretty good at ruining promising cartridges. The Creedmoor is even more of an object lesson for Remington. It would have never existed if Remington HAD DONE THEIR JOB with the .260. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2021 11:19:04 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think the biggest reason why it failed is that it used so many proprietary parts for a platform that was all about common parts. If they could have figure out how to make it work on a standard upper with only a proprietary bolt and maybe magazine (like 450 BM and others). I think it would still be going strong today but the proprietary upper, oversized bolt and barrel extension sort of doomed the cartridge for many. Maybe if Remington had uses this upper and cartridge as parent for a few other cartridges (imaging 450 BM loaded to 55 KSI like 30 RAR or a 20 or 22 caliber hot rod on this parent cartridge ) then maybe that could have given this weird configuration more legs but Remington as usually orphaned the cartridge and gun before a very large part of the market even had a chance to realize it was there.6.5 Creedmore and 30 Remington AR were introduced the same year 2008. Think about that and how different a path those two cartridges trod. Remington gave up on the gun and cartridge by 2013, stopping production of guns and only running small annual batches of ammo. Hornady on the other hand in 2013 was still nursing 6.5 CM along as a niche cartridge for years more until the market realized what it was and it became a success and broadly accepted cartridge. It has spun off at least one other cartridge (6mm CM) that is a success in its own right. 6.5 CM was not an overnight success it was a long road to the success. A chance Remington never gave the 30 RAR. Remington was pretty good at ruining promising cartridges. Extension/bolt were necessary evils......450b/458s while they have larger bolt faces they are throttled down on pressure which directly relates to performance. Could you use a 450B bolt and make your own brass from .284 Yes. But you would have to download to the limit of 35k or what ever it is. But that too is a viable option if you really wanted it that bad. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/27/2021 9:36:33 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Extension/bolt were necessary evils......450b/458s while they have larger bolt faces they are throttled down on pressure which directly relates to performance. Could you use a 450B bolt and make your own brass from .284 Yes. But you would have to download to the limit of 35k or what ever it is. But that too is a viable option if you really wanted it that bad. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think the biggest reason why it failed is that it used so many proprietary parts for a platform that was all about common parts. If they could have figure out how to make it work on a standard upper with only a proprietary bolt and maybe magazine (like 450 BM and others). I think it would still be going strong today but the proprietary upper, oversized bolt and barrel extension sort of doomed the cartridge for many. Maybe if Remington had uses this upper and cartridge as parent for a few other cartridges (imaging 450 BM loaded to 55 KSI like 30 RAR or a 20 or 22 caliber hot rod on this parent cartridge ) then maybe that could have given this weird configuration more legs but Remington as usually orphaned the cartridge and gun before a very large part of the market even had a chance to realize it was there.6.5 Creedmore and 30 Remington AR were introduced the same year 2008. Think about that and how different a path those two cartridges trod. Remington gave up on the gun and cartridge by 2013, stopping production of guns and only running small annual batches of ammo. Hornady on the other hand in 2013 was still nursing 6.5 CM along as a niche cartridge for years more until the market realized what it was and it became a success and broadly accepted cartridge. It has spun off at least one other cartridge (6mm CM) that is a success in its own right. 6.5 CM was not an overnight success it was a long road to the success. A chance Remington never gave the 30 RAR. Remington was pretty good at ruining promising cartridges. Extension/bolt were necessary evils......450b/458s while they have larger bolt faces they are throttled down on pressure which directly relates to performance. Could you use a 450B bolt and make your own brass from .284 Yes. But you would have to download to the limit of 35k or what ever it is. But that too is a viable option if you really wanted it that bad. I would almost rather go the other way. Take a 30 RAR and have a 450 Bushmaster barrel made for the 30RAR bolt and barrel extension for it so I could run the pressure on 450 BM up to 55 ksi. The fact that they changed rim diameters really makes going either direction a pain. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/27/2021 11:04:45 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would almost rather go the other way. Take a 30 RAR and have a 450 Bushmaster barrel made for the 30RAR bolt and barrel extension for it so I could run the pressure on 450 BM up to 55 ksi. The fact that they changed rim diameters really makes going either direction a pain. You could always do 1 better and do a full tilt 50AE
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2021 10:39:11 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You could always do 1 better and do a full tilt 50AE Back when we could pick up the occasional parts from DPMS I did quite a bit of work on the 30RAR.. Put together a few 358RAR, a couple 458RAR, and couple 50RAR.. The 358 was pretty much a straight neck-up on 30RAR brass.. is a very potent cartridge.. The 458 used custom brass.. the advantage to the 458RAR was being able to run it higher pressure than the SOCOM.. 300 Barnes wrecks whatever it hits.. The 50 used custom brass.. the advantage to the 50 was.. well, it was a 50 lol.. 35 Remington, 358RAR, 358ARk, 5.56  458RAR parts    |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2021 12:57:21 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Back when we could pick up the occasional parts from DPMS I did quite a bit of work on the 30RAR.. Put together a few 358RAR, a couple 458RAR, and couple 50RAR.. The 358 was pretty much a straight neck-up on 30RAR brass.. is a very potent cartridge.. The 458 used custom brass.. the advantage to the 458RAR was being able to run it higher pressure than the SOCOM.. 300 Barnes wrecks whatever it hits.. The 50 used custom brass.. the advantage to the 50 was.. well, it was a 50 lol.. 35 Remington, 358RAR, 358ARk, 5.56 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/161452/59848.JPG 458RAR parts https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/161452/61330.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/161452/63201.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/161452/65040.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You could always do 1 better and do a full tilt 50AE Back when we could pick up the occasional parts from DPMS I did quite a bit of work on the 30RAR.. Put together a few 358RAR, a couple 458RAR, and couple 50RAR.. The 358 was pretty much a straight neck-up on 30RAR brass.. is a very potent cartridge.. The 458 used custom brass.. the advantage to the 458RAR was being able to run it higher pressure than the SOCOM.. 300 Barnes wrecks whatever it hits.. The 50 used custom brass.. the advantage to the 50 was.. well, it was a 50 lol.. 35 Remington, 358RAR, 358ARk, 5.56 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/161452/59848.JPG 458RAR parts https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/161452/61330.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/161452/63201.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/161452/65040.JPG Awesome share, thanks. What kind of velocities were you able to get from the 458 RAR? I use the Barnes 275 gr TSX in my 450 Bushmaster and it has been devastating on everything I have shot with it. I bet the 300 gr TSX from 458 RAR would be spectacular. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2021 6:56:16 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Back when we could pick up the occasional parts from DPMS I did quite a bit of work on the 30RAR.. Put together a few 358RAR, a couple 458RAR, and couple 50RAR.. The 358 was pretty much a straight neck-up on 30RAR brass.. is a very potent cartridge.. The 458 used custom brass.. the advantage to the 458RAR was being able to run it higher pressure than the SOCOM.. 300 Barnes wrecks whatever it hits.. The 50 used custom brass.. the advantage to the 50 was.. well, it was a 50 lol.. 35 Remington, 358RAR, 358ARk, 5.56 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/161452/59848.JPG 458RAR parts https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/161452/61330.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/161452/63201.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/161452/65040.JPG Haven't seen you on in a good while Kurt. Good to see your alive and kicking.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2021 6:58:31 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Awesome share, thanks. What kind of velocities were you able to get from the 458 RAR? I use the Barnes 275 gr TSX in my 450 Bushmaster and it has been devastating on everything I have shot with it. I bet the 300 gr TSX from 458 RAR would be spectacular. Thank you. The parent brass for the 458RAR is 404 Jeffery, it should be good for somewhere around 50/55k pressure... when I started out with it I was keeping the 300 gr TSX velocities around 2,100 fps, mainly due to the lack of parts.. I had a few less conservative moments and pushed it to 2,400 fps to see what it looked like.. nothing flowed or broke, but the recoil was a little cringe worthy lol.. Old thread from.. yikes, 2014 |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2021 7:08:59 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Creedmoor is even more of an object lesson for Remington. It would have never existed if Remington HAD DONE THEIR JOB with the .260. This is the most truthful statement I have read on ARFCOM in ages. The .260 is yet another Remington epic F.A.I.L. Even in spite of Remington’s lack of propaganda to support the round and the fact that the .260 has been around since God was a boy, it refuses to die. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2021 7:09:47 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Haven't seen you on in a good while Kurt. Good to see your alive and kicking. I appreciate it! Still doing stuff here and there, really found enjoyment doing odd one-off stuff that nobody else wanted to mess with.. Mainly just watching the water and feeding the fish lol   Thanks again. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2021 10:30:29 PM EDT
[#46]
I've always enjoyed your wildcats and have been sucked into the game myself. lol
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2021 10:48:25 PM EDT
[#47]
They were trying to recover from their 6.8 fuckup and nobody had faith they wouldn't fuck that up too.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/1/2021 12:51:23 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They were trying to recover from their 6.8 fuckup and nobody had faith they wouldn't fuck that up too. Remingtons sins are many. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/1/2021 9:26:48 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Remingtons sins are many. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They were trying to recover from their 6.8 fuckup and nobody had faith they wouldn't fuck that up too. Remingtons sins are many. So say we all |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/3/2021 8:55:08 AM EDT
[#50]
I have the dpms upper and a case of the acccutips and a case of the core loks. I too really wish they would put new energy into this round and bring it back to surface.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
