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Posted: 3/21/2022 9:53:33 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: I just noticed that Anderson states that their lowers take a 3/4" grip screw. Is that diff from other 80% lowers and does it create some kinda problem? I bought a couple Anderson 100% lowers during the COVID drought because there was nothing else available at the time and installed an LPK in one a couple months ago and the standard grip screw worked just fine, but I have heard in the past that they don't tap the hole all the way through so the need for a shorter grip screw. Maybe that is a thing with just their 80's? |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 10:19:47 AM EDT
[#2]
Been using 3/4" stainless Phillips head screws in many ARs for quite a few years. Have never encountered the first problem with the grip on any of them. There is still plenty of thread engagement and the screw is not going to break.
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Posted: 3/21/2022 11:11:54 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Been using 3/4" stainless Phillips head screws in many ARs for quite few years. Have never encountered the first problem with the grip on any of them. There is still plenty of thread engagement and the screw is not going to break. When I do the setscrew trigger job on a lower I use a 5/8" grip bolt so yes, 3/4" is plenty long to hold the grip on. Most LPK's that contain grips include a 1" screw however. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 11:45:53 AM EDT
[#4]
Depends on the grip. A1 and A2 grips can usually get away with using a 1" inch screw in partially threaded lowers as the shelf of polymer in the grip between the screw head and the lower's grip tang is thicker on those than on a Magpul grip. That's why Magpul ships their grips with 3/4" screws, so that they are compatible with a wider range of lower receivers that may or may not be threaded all the way through.
Though the better solution is for the lower manufacturers to just thread the dang grip screw hole all the way like they're supposed to. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 11:51:43 AM EDT
[#5]
Pick up some 3/4" cap screws at your local hardware store.
EZPZ. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 1:48:08 PM EDT
[#6]
It’s really going to depend on how far they carried the threads into the receiver. Using a 3/4in screw (what I use only now) keeps you from having to worry about it.
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Posted: 3/21/2022 3:35:17 PM EDT
[#7]
Or just purchase a tap and tap wrench and tap the threads all the way through.
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Posted: 3/21/2022 4:06:53 PM EDT
[#8]
Strange that they'd do that on their 80 percents as all of the Anderson no logo receivers that I bought recently have the grip screw hole threaded the entire way.
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Posted: 3/21/2022 4:43:35 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or just purchase a tap and tap wrench and tap the threads all the way through. I tried that once. What I didn't like about the end result was that the threads were not as tight after tapping as they were before. I know there are taps made with different tolerances, but not being a machinist, I don't know how to grade them. I do know from having been a mechanic, that a loose fit between a screw and its hole can lead to stripping. I'll stick with the shorter screw. |
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Posted: 3/21/2022 5:53:42 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I tried that once. What I didn't like about the end result was that the threads were not as tight after tapping as they were before. I know there are taps made with different tolerances, but not being a machinist, I don't know how to grade them. I do know from having been a mechanic, that a loose fit between a screw and its hole can lead to stripping. I'll stick with the shorter screw. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Or just purchase a tap and tap wrench and tap the threads all the way through. I tried that once. What I didn't like about the end result was that the threads were not as tight after tapping as they were before. I know there are taps made with different tolerances, but not being a machinist, I don't know how to grade them. I do know from having been a mechanic, that a loose fit between a screw and its hole can lead to stripping. I'll stick with the shorter screw. Yep, And I also prefer to leave the anodizing on the threads intact... Tapping the hole the rest of the way will remove the anodizing. So I just make sure to know which combination of screw and grip I'm using with those lowers that aren't threaded all the way through. |
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Posted: 3/22/2022 10:03:21 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pick up some 3/4" cap screws at your local hardware store. EZPZ. Button head screws have a larger head diameter, I would recommend them over cap screws. |
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Posted: 3/22/2022 10:18:16 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Button head screws have a larger head diameter, I would recommend them over cap screws. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Pick up some 3/4" cap screws at your local hardware store. EZPZ. Button head screws have a larger head diameter, I would recommend them over cap screws. I prefer half inch pan head screws myself, but you could just put a half inch washer under the socket head cap screws. |
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Posted: 3/22/2022 10:21:59 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I prefer half inch pan head screws myself, but you could just put a half inch washer under the socket head cap screws. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Pick up some 3/4" cap screws at your local hardware store. EZPZ. Button head screws have a larger head diameter, I would recommend them over cap screws. I prefer half inch pan head screws myself, but you could just put a half inch washer under the socket head cap screws. Personal preference. Cap screw and flat washer has worked well for me. |
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Posted: 3/22/2022 10:35:34 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:Button head screws have a larger head diameter, I would recommend them over cap screws. Button heads would be better than standard cap, but the sockets are usually very shallow in comparison and a t-handle driver, which not everyone has, works the best for installation. After trying just about every style of screw head available on 1/4-28 screws, I settled on pan head, Phillips head screws. The Phillips socket is deep enough to avoid slipping, they are available at most any hardware store, are cheap, and #3 Phillips screwdrivers are inexpensive. JMO & YMMV |
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Posted: 3/22/2022 10:42:08 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Personal preference. Cap screw and flat washer has worked well for me. Do you also use lock washers or have you found them to be pointless like I have? I also use flat washers with socket head cap screws when I use them. |
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Posted: 3/22/2022 10:45:02 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you also use lock washers or have you found them to be pointless like I have? I also use flat washers with socket head cap screws when I use them. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Personal preference. Cap screw and flat washer has worked well for me. Do you also use lock washers or have you found them to be pointless like I have? I also use flat washers with socket head cap screws when I use them. Haven't used a locking washer on a grip screw in forever. Never had once loosen up neither. |
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Posted: 3/22/2022 10:51:02 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Button heads would be better than standard cap, but the sockets are usually very shallow in comparison and a t-handle driver, which not everyone has, works the best for installation. After trying just about every style of screw head available on 1/4-28 screws, I settled on pan head, Phillips head screws. The Phillips socket is deep enough to avoid slipping, they are available at most any hardware store, are cheap, and #3 Phillips screwdrivers are inexpensive. JMO & YMMV Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:Button head screws have a larger head diameter, I would recommend them over cap screws. Button heads would be better than standard cap, but the sockets are usually very shallow in comparison and a t-handle driver, which not everyone has, works the best for installation. After trying just about every style of screw head available on 1/4-28 screws, I settled on pan head, Phillips head screws. The Phillips socket is deep enough to avoid slipping, they are available at most any hardware store, are cheap, and #3 Phillips screwdrivers are inexpensive. JMO & YMMV Wow, I never thought anyone would use Phillips head screws for pistol grip screws. To each their own and I'm glad you found a grip screw you like, but personally I think that Phillips drive screws are one of the few drive types that should be banned from further production. Though it's probably not terrible for a pistol grip screw, it's absolutely terrible for construction applications (which unfortunately is where it's most common). |
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Posted: 3/22/2022 10:55:56 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Haven't used a locking washer on a grip screw in forever. Never had once loosen up neither. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Personal preference. Cap screw and flat washer has worked well for me. Do you also use lock washers or have you found them to be pointless like I have? I also use flat washers with socket head cap screws when I use them. Haven't used a locking washer on a grip screw in forever. Never had once loosen up neither.  I'm glad I'm not alone! I have to wonder why no manufacturer has had the common sense to eliminate them from their production lines considering that they don't actually work and it would save them a little on each lower they assemble. |
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Posted: 3/22/2022 12:12:33 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:Wow, I never thought anyone would use Phillips head screws for pistol grip screws. To each their own and I'm glad you found a grip screw you like, but personally I think that Phillips drive screws are one of the few drive types that should be banned from further production. Though it's probably not terrible for a pistol grip screw, it's absolutely terrible for construction applications (which unfortunately is where it's most common). I always thought they were the worst fastener that could possibly be used to assemble motorcycle engine side covers, but I thought we were talking about AR pistol grip screws. You obviously never thought about the advantages of the Phillips screw in this application. Cheap, but more than strong enough for the purpose and easily obtained Ease of installation, they stay on the screwdriver when manipulated Inexpensive, readily available driver(try to find an individual 3/16", t-handle Allen key in most hardware stores)[a long l-key will work, sorta] Broad, flat surface where it engages the grip The only problem I've ever seen anyone have, and people do it all the time when using Phillips screws in any application, is when they try to use a #2 driver to tighten/loosen a #3 screw head. That's like trying to tighten/loosen a 1/4" cap screw socket, which usually takes a 3/16" driver, with a 5/32" key. But, don't get me wrong. In the end, I couldn't care less what anyone else uses. Just trying to posit what I found to be an alternative. All the choices mentioned above will work just fine. |
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Posted: 3/22/2022 1:28:19 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I always thought they were the worst fastener that could possibly be used to assemble motorcycle engine side covers, but I thought we were talking about AR pistol grip screws. You obviously never thought about the advantages of the Phillips screw in this application. Cheap, but more than strong enough for the purpose and easily obtained Ease of installation, they stay on the screwdriver when manipulated Inexpensive, readily available driver(try to find an individual 3/16", t-handle Allen key in most hardware stores)[an l-key will work, sorta] Broad, flat surface where it engages the grip The only problem I've ever seen anyone have, and people do it all the time when using Phillips screws in any application, is when they try to use a #2 driver to tighten/loosen a #3 screw head. That's like trying to tighten/loosen a 1/4" cap screw socket, which usually takes a 3/16" driver, with a 5/32" key. But, don't get me wrong. In the end, I couldn't care less what anyone else uses. Just trying to posit what I found to be an alternative. All the choices mentioned above will work just fine. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:Wow, I never thought anyone would use Phillips head screws for pistol grip screws. To each their own and I'm glad you found a grip screw you like, but personally I think that Phillips drive screws are one of the few drive types that should be banned from further production. Though it's probably not terrible for a pistol grip screw, it's absolutely terrible for construction applications (which unfortunately is where it's most common). I always thought they were the worst fastener that could possibly be used to assemble motorcycle engine side covers, but I thought we were talking about AR pistol grip screws. You obviously never thought about the advantages of the Phillips screw in this application. Cheap, but more than strong enough for the purpose and easily obtained Ease of installation, they stay on the screwdriver when manipulated Inexpensive, readily available driver(try to find an individual 3/16", t-handle Allen key in most hardware stores)[an l-key will work, sorta] Broad, flat surface where it engages the grip The only problem I've ever seen anyone have, and people do it all the time when using Phillips screws in any application, is when they try to use a #2 driver to tighten/loosen a #3 screw head. That's like trying to tighten/loosen a 1/4" cap screw socket, which usually takes a 3/16" driver, with a 5/32" key. But, don't get me wrong. In the end, I couldn't care less what anyone else uses. Just trying to posit what I found to be an alternative. All the choices mentioned above will work just fine. I'm definitely not trying to criticize your choice in pistol grip screw drive type. If your experience with it is good it doesn't effect me one way or another. My issues with Phillips is mainly because of it's use in construction applications where it's absolutely terrible in every way imaginable. I've never really been settled on pistol grip screws myself, but if I went shopping for what I envision the perfect pistol grip screw to be, I'd want something very similar to the screw that Magpul uses for their grips. However, I'd want it in a 1" inch length instead of 3/4", with a blue or red Nylok patch instead of the overly hard yellow patch and it would be in TORX Plus drive. |
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Posted: 3/22/2022 1:46:14 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:I've never really been settled on pistol grip screws myself, but if I went shopping for what I envision the perfect pistol grip screw to be, I'd want something very similar to the screw that Magpul uses for their grips. However, I'd want it in a 1" inch length instead of 3/4", with a blue or red Nylok patch instead of the overly hard yellow patch and it would be in TORX Plus drive. I don't understand your requirement for the "Plus", but a Torx buttonhead could be the ultimate choice. Somebody try to steal one of your grips? The only drawback I can see would be the tool necessary. The best tool for that screw would, again, be a t-handle driver which most people won't have. I do, even for the "Plus", but most won't. I can hardly believe we're wasting this much time debating grip screws. LOL |
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Posted: 3/22/2022 2:56:02 PM EDT
[#22]
The best tool for that screw would, again, be a t-handle driver which most people won't have. One of the few true "gunsmith" tools that I have, and thought everybody had, is a driver bit set that has all the various hex, torx, square, flat, phillips, etc driver bits with the screwdriver handle. They are so innexpensive and make life so much easier. |
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Posted: 3/22/2022 3:22:05 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can hardly believe we're wasting this much time debating grip screws. LOL Lol, I sure know I've spent way too much time thinking about it...  No one has ever tried stealing my grips, but I guess I just enjoy the uniqueness of TORX Plus over regular Torx and I never was a big fan of Allen drive screws. And for button head vs. pan head, I guess either is fine, but with a 1/2" inch diameter pan head I can get away without using a washer of any kind which is nice. I actually use a torque screwdriver to install the pistol grip screws and I have a good selection of bits to choose from. |
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Posted: 3/23/2022 12:21:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Button head screws have a larger head diameter, I would recommend them over cap screws. Button heads strip out much easier than cap. And cap is the stronger of the two. In this application, neither may matter. 3/4” vs 1” may be trivial as well. |
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Posted: 3/23/2022 9:06:02 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Button heads strip out much easier than cap. And cap is the stronger of the two. In this application, neither may matter. 3/4” vs 1” may be trivial as well. Given the applied torque shouldn't exceed 35 to 45 in-lbs, stripping the head is a small concern, however we are installing a screw into plastic so we do not want to exceed the compression strength of the plastic, which is possible at those torques, we need as much contact area as possible. Then there is the issue of pull through with a small diameter head. |
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Posted: 3/23/2022 9:41:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Then there is the issue of pull through with a small diameter head. Which is why they make a thing called a "washer" 
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Posted: 3/23/2022 10:44:23 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I always thought they were the worst fastener that could possibly be used to assemble motorcycle engine side covers, but I thought we were talking about AR pistol grip screws. You obviously never thought about the advantages of the Phillips screw in this application. Cheap, but more than strong enough for the purpose and easily obtained Ease of installation, they stay on the screwdriver when manipulated Inexpensive, readily available driver(try to find an individual 3/16", t-handle Allen key in most hardware stores)[an l-key will work, sorta] Broad, flat surface where it engages the grip The only problem I've ever seen anyone have, and people do it all the time when using Phillips screws in any application, is when they try to use a #2 driver to tighten/loosen a #3 screw head. That's like trying to tighten/loosen a 1/4" cap screw socket, which usually takes a 3/16" driver, with a 5/32" key. But, don't get me wrong. In the end, I couldn't care less what anyone else uses. Just trying to posit what I found to be an alternative. All the choices mentioned above will work just fine. |
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Posted: 3/23/2022 10:49:16 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I always thought they were the worst fastener that could possibly be used to assemble motorcycle engine side covers, but I thought we were talking about AR pistol grip screws. You obviously never thought about the advantages of the Phillips screw in this application. Cheap, but more than strong enough for the purpose and easily obtained Ease of installation, they stay on the screwdriver when manipulated Inexpensive, readily available driver(try to find an individual 3/16", t-handle Allen key in most hardware stores)[an l-key will work, sorta] Broad, flat surface where it engages the grip The only problem I've ever seen anyone have, and people do it all the time when using Phillips screws in any application, is when they try to use a #2 driver to tighten/loosen a #3 screw head. That's like trying to tighten/loosen a 1/4" cap screw socket, which usually takes a 3/16" driver, with a 5/32" key. But, don't get me wrong. In the end, I couldn't care less what anyone else uses. Just trying to posit what I found to be an alternative. All the choices mentioned above will work just fine. If you're working on a Japanese bike, or some European bikes, and using a Phillips head screw driver on the engine covers, you are using the wrong tool. They are in fact JIS headed fasteners. |
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Posted: 3/23/2022 11:10:10 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:If you're working on a Japanese bike, or some European bikes, and using a Phillips head screw driver on the engine covers, you are using the wrong tool. They are in fact JIS headed fasteners. Sorry, nothing but H-Ds. |
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Posted: 3/24/2022 7:00:53 AM EDT
[#30]
I think the Colt LE carbine operators manual list for their grip and screw length a minimum of 65 inch pounds for tightening. This is the best data I have found on torque in aluminum. If this linked document is correct the amount of torque allowed goes up in aluminum appears significant as the amount of threads increase. May be the reason the mil spec screw is between 1 1/6" to 1 1/8" long and the lower has full depth threads for the screw.
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/20170003491 |
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Posted: 3/26/2022 12:14:41 PM EDT
[#31]
I use Grade 8 1/4-28 NF 1" capscrews with a washer underneath. And a Klein 3/16th T handle.
I hate the flathead ones. Phillips would likely work well. |
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Posted: 5/9/2022 5:10:38 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or just purchase a tap and tap wrench and tap the threads all the way through. |
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