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Link Posted: 3/28/2011 9:36:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2011 9:40:03 PM EDT by SpecOps-13]
frog5215: Good Luck Brother........ My Prayers are with You.....
Link Posted: 3/28/2011 10:12:56 PM EDT
Thanks. frog5215
Link Posted: 3/29/2011 1:36:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SpecOps-13:
frog5215: Good Luck Brother........ My Prayers are with You.....


Plus another one from me. May the Lord be with you.
Link Posted: 3/29/2011 11:24:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By VASCAR2:
Originally Posted By SpecOps-13:
frog5215: Good Luck Brother........ My Prayers are with You.....


Plus another one from me. May the Lord be with you.


Our prayers are with you, man! Hope everything turns out for the best!
Link Posted: 4/2/2011 10:33:21 PM EDT
I'm probably a little bit late with this mini review but who cares....

I bought one of the CMMG .22 conversions, the cheapo parkarized version, and it has impressed me.

It runs 100 % with federal, remington, and winchester bulk packages, and I have had absolutetly no malfunctions, except for the ones which I caused by resting on the magazine. I've been using it with my 16" Armalite 5.56 upper and I have probably 1500 rounds through it. I have not cleaned it yet or even lubed it, im trying to see how dirty this thing needs to get before it chokes.

FOr some reason 30% of federal and 60% of remington bulk packs are subsonic, but thats not the conversions fault. At 100 yards it hits 1-2ft low., about 8" low at 50 yards from my zero with 5.56.

At 25 yards it will put 10 rounds into a group the size of a quarter.

What impresses me the most is I just keep it in my range bag, and randomly throw it in at the range and blast awa, I always get people to turn there heads because all the sudden my gun is now a bb gun, compared to 5.56 with the FSC556.

There are two negatives I have noticed but its not that bad. The first thing is when I switch back to .223/5.56 my gun looks like its a black powder rifle and throws a TON of smoke. The second thing is I randomly feel things hitting the right side of my face, I'm guessing unburnt powder is being thrown by the casings that are being ejected.
Link Posted: 4/16/2011 8:05:55 PM EDT
Havent posted anything in a few weeks since my question about accuracy froman conversion unit . I was waiting for the gun show to come and today , was the day !!!
But ..on all of the exhibit floor I found/saw 2 conversion models . Both old used airforce models . Atleast thats what the descriptions were . Huge dissapointment !
I think I need to find an investor and become an conversion dealer for CMMG , I could make big bucks ! Lots of other arms and nice AR500 steel targets for pistol and rifles . But of course they wanted cash or check !? Bought 50 rounds of .223 for $18.50 , not to bad.
But thats all beside the point ,Still no conversion unit !

I have decided to buy online now . So in the next few days I will look around and make a purchase !
Link Posted: 4/17/2011 11:43:56 AM EDT
CMMG evolution upper w/ DD Omeaga X rail, 'el cheapo CAA mount + Millett Red Dot...on top of my RECCE-style middy.

Link Posted: 4/18/2011 3:44:11 PM EDT

Add me to the list of satisfied CMMG bolt owners. The kids and I put about 500 rounds through a new CMMG stainless kit (old style,not evolution) this weekend and I have to say, it is money well spent.... couldn't be happier with it.

I used up some old Federal bulk, and about half a new 555 Winchester box with one dud round, and two stove pipes. The stove pipes were while my daugter was shooting and she is just learning to hold the stock tight to her shoulder, so that accounts for the ejection issues in my mind. The dud round was well dented, so was a true dud.

My rifle is a Stag 2H parts kit built up on a Spikes lower with about 500 trouble-free 5.56 rounds through her. I fitted and used 3 different CMMG 26-round mags and all worked well.
Link Posted: 4/23/2011 9:04:13 PM EDT
Well, I did it , I finaly orderd my evolution conversion kit . I wanted to get an extra mag too, but they seem to sell out fast ! I'll get on later .

I orderd it online , but not after trying a few local gun stores . But either they don't like CMMG or conversion is a dirty word cause no succes there ! One of the replies I got ; We carry S&W 22s so we won't carry others . When asked if I could order it , it was just "no"

What was up with that ? I was ready to drop over $ 200 dollars , did the economy suddenly turn around ? I don't get it .

But I have one coming , and that is it . CMMG step up production on the 25 round mags ! lol !
Link Posted: 4/24/2011 7:08:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/28/2011 8:47:33 AM EDT by SpecOps-13]
Thanks for the inputs guys. Nice picture BTW, Sweet Pair.

I've been trying to get the Gun Stores around me to stock conversions and dedicated uppers for years.
Only ones that have stepped up and done this is Cracker Boys Outdoors here in Pinellas Park. There
are dozens of Gun Stores in this area but it seems that they feel the AR-22's aren't to be taken seriously.
They do stock the Colts and the Smith and Wesson but don't seem to understand how much interest there
actually is... Oh well, the one shop I mentioned helped me get through the big rush to buy ammo during the
Obama Scare. They stayed on top of the 22 ammo orders daily...Otherwise the testing I did during that time
would have been much less complete. It would have been mainly with Federal Bulk....

Dave


If you've made it this far and have questions still unanswered, Send me an Instant Message or E-Mail. I'll do my best to help with an answer, or I'll ask others here on ARFCOM who can.
Link Posted: 4/25/2011 12:43:18 AM EDT
I bought mine directly from CMMG.
Link Posted: 5/8/2011 9:50:01 AM EDT
http://94.100.122.231/1300600001-1300650000/1300626901-1300627000/1300626907_5_hNPe.jpeg
http://94.100.121.30/1300600001-1300650000/1300626901-1300627000/1300626910_5_DpGK.jpeg

I had my CMMG evolution conversion kit for a week now and I was dying to try it out ! Well, today I finaly had an oppertunity . I loaded up my range bag and ammo (Federal copper plated hollow point) . Got my rifle and kit and walked to the range .After a 5 miinute walk I found a nice spot and got things ready . I didn't install the BHOA yet per instructions and quickly fired of 100 rounds with one FF . Didn't really went for accuray , but I was hitting an old steel pan at 25 yards without a problem .

After the first 100 and installed the BHOA and went at it again , but after the last shot the bolt didn't stay open , Frired another mag of 15 and still the bolt didn't stay open . I followed the instructions on how to set it up with adjusting it with the allen wrench . I can get it to work with pushing the bolt catch , it seems the BHOA is hanging against the top of the magazine . Can it be that the magazine is in to tight ? I need to work with it a bit .

Besides that , it went flawless ! I think I fired around 350 rounds total . When I got back home I noticed where the round the round sits in the magazine , the top is bulging and being cut in. Mabe the top should be metal ? It seems the plastic is a bit to soft .

I had loads of fun though ! I'm hooked !
Link Posted: 5/8/2011 4:23:31 PM EDT
Happy to hear that you had a good time. The BHOA may be affected by the magazine being too tight.
Loosening it a slight amount may help. Metal feed lips are on the way. The plastic feed lips aren't quite
up to the extra pressure put on them by the heavy magazine spring needed to operate the BHOA..
Link Posted: 5/8/2011 4:57:38 PM EDT
Dave,

I saw the post from CMMG about the new magazines, looks very promising ! About the BHOA , it fits good and works good when installed, no binding, etc. When the BHOA is installed on the magazine, it works good too. But when all put together, it seems to bind , it might be the bolt catch spring (I read some tips and tricks) will work with it a bit this week .

I'm a mechanic , love finding out why things don't work. I'll keep you updated . Now go test those new mags ! I can't wait to get some !

Ernst
Link Posted: 5/8/2011 5:28:27 PM EDT
The bolt catch spring has been the number 1 cause of tha BHOA not working.
If your comfortable with how tight your magazine is and it's not in need of extreme
force to get it in or our, it's alright. You may want to cut a small amount of the
Bolt Catch Spring and retry it... Mine will lock back when using dummy rounds.
All of my catch springs for 22 lowers are DPMS....
Link Posted: 5/14/2011 7:04:12 PM EDT
Hey Dave, I finaly had some time this weekend to play with the BHOA , and as you said in another forum , the bolt catch spring was causing the problem . I cut of 1.5 ring and now it works perfect with the conversion and 5.56 magazines . Only could dry test t though , but i'm confident it works . I'm glad I invested in some good roll pin punches . They paid off ! Can't wait for those new magazines , any updates on that ?

Ernst
Link Posted: 5/15/2011 8:29:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/17/2011 9:32:14 AM EDT by SpecOps-13]
Drum4: I'm in as big a hurry for those new magazines as you. CMMG is doing everything
they possibly can to get them ready but they're at the mercy of an outside supplier on this
one. They would be a huge company if they did everything in house.. It's just not feasible
for them to do that.

Dave


Reprint From the Standard Forum Thread

We've been waiting for this a long time now. CMMG has been trying to get these 20" upper to us but had difficulties
with their barrel supplier. I've heard about and seen this with the other manufacturers I've worked with, so it's
not new, strange or really anything out of the ordinary. CMMG has pressed forward to get these out. The wait was
worth it, This upper passed my close inspection. Nice, Very Nice...... I'm calling this model an HBar. It came
with the CMMG Stainless Upgrade Bolt Assembly and Collar. Also with a forward assist. It has the Ceramic Finish
but closely matches my 3 year old CMMG Lower very closely... The finish is better than some of the Colts I've owned.
It gonna be a blast to shoot.

I've never had the opportunity to shoot a 20" in 22 so this will be new for me.. I put a small scope on just for pictures but
I'll likely use a larger, variable scope. I want to push this rifle and see what it can do at 50 and 100 yards once I've put
some rounds through it to season the barrel...

I've always had trouble picking a background. Living in Florida, doesn't offer the outdoor background that some of our states do.
Besides, can't scare the neighbors too bad. They'd have 50 LE here if I went outside to take pictures. I did what I could..



Link Posted: 6/3/2011 6:33:39 AM EDT
CCI Tactical .22 lr
CCI has introduced a new .22 LR round designed for use in AR-15 style .22 LR rifles. The bullet is a 40 grain lube-coated copper-plated solid target bullet with a round nose designed for easy feeding in a semi-automatic.
Should prove interesting to see if these rounds improve ejection as claimed.
Link Posted: 6/6/2011 11:53:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bizarro:
CCI Tactical .22 lr
CCI has introduced a new .22 LR round designed for use in AR-15 style .22 LR rifles. The bullet is a 40 grain lube-coated copper-plated solid target bullet with a round nose designed for easy feeding in a semi-automatic.
Should prove interesting to see if these rounds improve ejection as claimed.


Thanks, I may pick some up. I also saw on Midway that if you order any two boxes of CCI rimfire ammo, there's a rebate for a fee spinner target.
Link Posted: 6/27/2011 11:15:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MrNate:
Originally Posted By Bizarro:
CCI Tactical .22 lr
CCI has introduced a new .22 LR round designed for use in AR-15 style .22 LR rifles. The bullet is a 40 grain lube-coated copper-plated solid target bullet with a round nose designed for easy feeding in a semi-automatic.
Should prove interesting to see if these rounds improve ejection as claimed.


Thanks, I may pick some up. I also saw on Midway that if you order any two boxes of CCI rimfire ammo, there's a rebate for a fee spinner target.

I really dont see the appeal in this, besides the fact that CCI makes a very reliable round. But for that kind of money, they just don't do it for me. I'll stick with my Federal Bulk until they can make something cheaper. I do appreciate that CCI is trying to make a leap into .22 AR's though. I really wish someone would create bulk subsonic ammunition. Heck, it might even be cheaper to produce (due to less powder).
Link Posted: 7/2/2011 9:46:41 AM EDT
Repost from Rimfire Forum to preserve the info... Spec

I called the range early to see what the status was. Ed the usual Range Master didn't answer. Bob, another did.
I asked if they were packed, which seems to be normal these days. He told me yes and that 6 lanes were down.
When I got there I found 4 people waiting on lanes. They wanted 4 right next to each other so I went to the top
of the list and was put on lane 6.

I started out shooting Federal Bulk to get a zero for the day. Shots were all over. I had a friend John take some shots
to see if it was just me. It wasn't. We found that the scopes mounting mechanism had come loose. So we flipped the
lever open and tightened the adjusting screw. Zeroed at 25 yards and continued to shoot other ammo using this zero.

5 rounds were fired on each center, May not look like it on some targets but they are there. Federal Load 510 first target
and Federal Lightning on the second. The Winchester 333/555 I shot the other day had done better as far as accuracy.

I switched over to Fiocchi Match and the groups tightened up considerably the top 3 and center of the 3rd target show
the results of Fiocchi. The Fiocchi didn't kick the bolt back to pick up a round so this was pretty much single shot and
hand load another round.The rest of the centers were shot using Eley Match. I shot 4 centers to the left and right of center.
I let my friend John shoot the bottom 3 targets. He doesn't shoot a lot of rifle, he's a pistol shooter. He did very well for just
being thrown into the mix and competing with me and my now 120,000 rounds of AR-22 experience... On a couple of the
Eley groups, I ran out of change so I used a pin clasp and a watch battery to give the referance of size.

BTW: The New CMMG Magazine performed Flawlessly through it all. 5 Stars for it...







Link Posted: 7/10/2011 8:42:35 PM EDT
I am building my first Ar-15 and chambering it in .22. I have many questions in regards to this project, and I thought this would be a good place to start.

1) Is Spikes ever going to make a .22 dedicated upper/ conversion kit again?
2) Can I use any .22 magazine (Colt .22, Pmag .22, Black Dog) with a dedicated .22 upper from CMMG? (Because I can't find one from Spikes)
3) Are CMMG good systems to use for .22 uppers? (People say they jam on ammo+mags. I buy 300 count .22 Remington Ammo from Academy)

If I think of any more questions I will ask if I can't find the answers I am looking for on here or on the Internet.

Thanks again

b62stew
Link Posted: 7/11/2011 1:31:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2011 1:34:58 AM EDT by MikeS1970]
The CMMG units will work with Ciener, Blackdog and Ciener mags as will the Spikes. I do not have any experience with the ProMags but if they are for the Ciener type units they should work.

The Colt (original and current) will, as far as I know, not work with the CMMG.

Ciener, Spikes, Tactics(?), Stag, CMMG and a few other units are Ciener-Atchisson type conversions and will work with the mags made for the Ciener type units. My Ciener type units: Kuehl dedicated, Ciener (several) and Spikes.

I like the Blackdog, CMMG and steel Ciener mags.

I also have 261, Colt, DPMS, Air Force and Atchisson (pre-Ciener) conversions - none of the mags will work with each other or the new Colt and S&W .22 "ARs". Only the original Colt conversion and the DPMS mags interchange (with removal of a guide tab on the Colt mags).

YMMV
Link Posted: 7/19/2011 8:39:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2011 8:50:26 AM EDT by SpecOps-13]
Reports Reposted from the Standard Forum..


I knew this shipment was coming but didn't have a 100% positive idea what it was going to be.
I'd talked about this possibility with CMMG Staff a while back... You know, the guy behind the
scenes who waves the Magic Wand, making the coolest things happen. What a great Idea this is.......

A Retro, 20" Pencil Profile Upper. Lightweight all the way. A1 Upper Receiver too. Only
thing that distinguishes this from the Southeast East Asia Version of many years ago are the
case deflector, Delta Ring and for me, the forward assist button... I added the Period Optic and
did swap out the A1 FH for a 3 prong I had setting around.... I have a Pre Ban Colt set up almost
exactly the same. In fact, second picture...... Anybody else think this is a Really Cool Idea???????





I had someone ask why I do my testing at 25 yards normally and don't test at 50 yards.
Convenience is the main reason. To get to a decent outdoor range is a 55 mile drive, 1 way.
Where I shoot, the range master is like a brother. He knows that I like to be at the end of
the lanes either far right or far left and he does everything in his power to make that happen.
Given the same shooting conditions, If I take a 25 yard target and double the group size
that's what I expect to be shooting at 50 yards. If you apply that math to the targets I shot
tonight, The groups are under the size of a Quarter and some still smaller than a dime.
That's really good for an AR-22 in my book...

The target I used is one I made up a while back from a 50 Foot Small Bore Target. I've used it when
I've had the opportunity to shoot 100 yards. That's a long walk to put up a new target for this FOG...
Having 9 centers is very convenient. I fooled around with this rifle shooting Federal Bulk just to get
some rounds through it before I put it to an accuracy test... I've found that the 22 barrels will improve
in accuracy and level off by the time I reach 1,000 rounds.

I fired 200 Federals then set up my test target at 25 yards, for 5 shot groups. I'm calling this style
of shooting "9 Lives", 45 rounds, 1 target with 9 centers. No second chances. What I shoot I post...

Top 3 centers were using Federal Ultra Match, center 3 with Wolf Match Target and the bottom 3
with Eley Match (Black and White Box). All of the CMMG's that I've tested really like Eley Ammo.
This barrel liked everything...[/span]

I used the new style CMMG Steel Feed Lip Mag and The BDM Plastic Feed Lip Magazine. Both performed
flawlessly... Not a single failure. I'm awaiting a replacement set of Stainless Steel Feed Lips so I can continue
testing of a 2nd Black Dog Machine Mag... At the time of this being reposted here, both of the Black Dog Mags
are wworking perfect. The CMMG Magazine also works flawlessly. So many magazine options from the 2 companies
that we the customer are the winners here... BDM still has the only Drum Mag, at 50 rounds.




I ran by a range that had 50 yard ranges the other day just for the any non believers.
I only gave myself one chance at doing this because I really don't like the range
that I was at. It was an Eney Meny Moe to select the ammo I shot. It ended up
being Wolf Match Target. At 50 yards, as you can see. the 5 shot group was still
dime sized. I think this 4140 steel barrel is a winner...


Dave S




Link Posted: 7/19/2011 8:50:46 PM EDT
Hey all,

I'm a long time lurker but this thread really helped me decide what to get. I posted this on another forum but wanted to share here too.

The happy brown truck drove by this afternoon and dropped of a box from CMMG.

I already had a stainless CMMG conversion kit but I wasn't really happy with the groupings I get from my 1/7 Sabre upper. With the 1/7 I was getting pretty big groups at 25 yards. I guess 1/7 is way too fast for a little 22 bullet...most of my rounds were in a 8" diameter pattern. Ok for plinking but I wanted better.

I ordered a 16" 22LR upper w/ FSB from CMMG but they were out of stock. I asked if I could change my order to an 18" because they had those barrels on hand. They did and I happily changed my order. They built it and sent it on its way in a few days. I think it took 10 days to get here. It's an awesome piece of work. Since I already had a conversion kit, I just ordered a stainless barrel collar. I had to pop off the chamber adapter and swap it out with the barrel collar on the BCG but it was really easy.

The only thing that was unexpected was that CMMG trimmed the back part of the dust cover and added a bonus brass deflector.

Later I found out this brass deflector was really ingenious because it bounced all my brass ahead of me. It looks a little wierd but its very functional.

I also took advantage of the sick sale Palmetto State Armory has been having and got a stripped lower and lower build kit for a redonculous price. The upper and lower mated perfectly...like they were made for each other.







Oh yeah, I got one of those stripped lowers honoring my favorite SC Congressman...I just had to get it when I saw how much it pissed off MSNBC


Here she is next to her big brother. I was kinda surprised that the 18" CMMG was almost the same length as my 16" Sabre Middy. But the CMMG barrel does extend a bit into the upper receiver. I really like how it looks like a dissipator with the full length hand guards. I may add a rail in the future.

I swapped my Primary Arms M3 from my Sabre to the CMMG and pushed a target out to 25 yards at my local indoor range. The rifle range was full so I used is a pistol range. I wasn't able to shoot from a stable sitting bench, I had to use the waist high pistol rest.


I fired of 27 rounds of Winchester 333 at 25 yards without zeroing and got the above. I was really surprised that I was on target right off the bat.


I tweeked the windage/elevation and then fired off 2 mags (54 rounds) at the center of the target.

I ended up firing 400+ rounds today and didn't have a single malfunction. The CMMG upper functioned flawlessly. The Palmetto lower was great too, I've only shot Colts at work and my Sabre has a DPMS lower built kit. The trigger from the Palmetto lower build kit was way better than the DPMS trigger and about par with Colt's.

In summary, I'm realy happy with this rifle. I though the conversion kit was sexy but I wasn't really happy with the groups. This is the best of both worlds...its cheap and accurate fun. A box of Winchester 22LR is way cheaper than a box of M193/M855.

Link Posted: 7/20/2011 8:41:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2011 8:44:01 AM EDT by SpecOps-13]
rainmaker9: Thank you for coming here and doing a great review and range report.
The Aguila SSS 60grain bullet is really the only round that is very accurate with a
1:7" twist. Atleast for me. Your 54 round group is Amazing, basically the size of a
quarter. If you want, sometime try the match ammo's I've used in the CMMG. I know
they're expensive but they make it a tack driver...

Thanx for mentioning this thread
was helpful in your decision.
Congrats on a very nice set up,
Dave S / SpecOps-13 in Florida
Link Posted: 7/22/2011 5:37:03 PM EDT
I just got my $130 CMMG kit from PSA today. It functioned perfectly dry cycling and will likely have a little range time tomorrow. I will be running some Remington, CCI 40gr HP subs, and will try to establish a 25yd zero for my Aimpoint. Next month I hope to be starting the F4 for a YHM Ti 762 that will be run on multiple hosts.
Link Posted: 7/27/2011 11:39:04 AM EDT
Been shooting a plain Ceiner since the 70's- Now I don't feel so alone

Got a dedicated M4 upper from kuehl years ago and just started using it-

Anyone know if kuehl is still in business? I know he stopped making them 3-4 years ago-

I found I needing to bend my hammer spring a bit -it was a little too stout-
Does anyone make a lighter hammer spring and if so what would be the effect of leaving it in when shooting .223?

Link Posted: 7/27/2011 11:20:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/28/2011 11:40:36 AM EDT by MikeS1970]
Been shooting a Kuehl for a few years - very reliable upper.

I've used reduced power hammer springs before - made for 5.56/.223 uppers. No problems.

Now using a Timney trigger in lower running Kuehl and CMMG midlength 5.56 uppers - zero problems with .22LR and 5.56.

Extra recoil spring kits (full length recoil, reduced hammer and disconnector springs) from Blackdog Ciener Spring kit or Lakeside Ciener spring kit&other neat stuff or JB Arms Ciener Spring kit sometimes helps. I use mine uncut or just shortened about an inch. Mr. Kuehl said an uncut recoil spring might actually improve functioning in some cases with good, consistent ammo. All my conversions: Kuehl, Spikes, 261, Colt, DPMS, KKF, Air Force - drop in or dedicated seem to like CCI MiniMags and Standard. My favorite is the CCI Standard as it seems very consistent in terms of functioning.

YMMV.
Link Posted: 7/28/2011 7:39:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/28/2011 8:57:45 PM EDT by SpecOps-13]
I'm not sure Rick is with us any more.

"Rick is no longer taking orders and will not be making uppers after the orders he has currently!!

His web site says he has personal problems." This from 2007.

Dave S
Link Posted: 8/3/2011 1:46:45 AM EDT
this is a great thread,thankyou!
Link Posted: 8/5/2011 1:05:10 AM EDT
What's the word on the new Armalite uppers? Are they cmmg guts? I know that they cmmg makes the mags.

Anybody give one a go yet?

Link Posted: 8/5/2011 8:40:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2011 8:42:45 AM EDT by SpecOps-13]

jtm45: A lot of people have helped make this thread what it is. You can add your testing too..

MrOrwell: Anything's possible....
Link Posted: 8/5/2011 11:36:19 PM EDT
Hi, I've been lurking for a month or so, decided to join and am finally making my first post. I want to thank you and all the other testers and contributors to this thread. It has really helped me make an informed decision on which dedicated .22LR upper I should use with my Spikes AR lower. I decided that a CMMG 18" LE Evolution, F marked FSB, forward assist with the stainless steel collar was the way to go. I had originally ordered the 16" barrel, but after looking at my other .22LR and WMR rifles, and seeing that the shortest barrel I had was a 20" on my Henry H001T lever action, I reconsidered and changed my order to the longer barrel. Just today I received my tracking number and the upper is on a brown truck with expected delivery on Monday. With a little cooperation from work, I may be able to get down to the range on Tuesday and try to shoot a couple hundred or so break-in rounds, assuming the upper runs OK out of the box.

I do have a question: in anticipation, I ordered 4 Black Dog magazines from 44mag dot com. Trying out the fit with my lower, the magazines seem fairly loose and wobbly when seated in the magazine well, at least when compared to my 5.56 Magpul pmags. If the sloppy fit does affect how the magazines feed, is there a preferred way to shim the mags that would improve their function? I haven't seen this particular issue addressed here, but I'm new and haven't made my way through all the rimfire/handgun caliber threads. I apologize if I've overlooked something that should have been obvious.

Steve

Link Posted: 8/6/2011 2:30:03 AM EDT
Slight wobble with the BDM, Ciener and CMMG mags does not cause problems for me in the Ciener and Ciener based units.

I know most people prefer the mags to be snug and not move around but in my experience the loose mags seem to work slightly better than the tight mags.

Got no explanation for why this works for me.


YMMV
Link Posted: 8/6/2011 6:39:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2011 6:47:00 PM EDT by SpecOps-13]
With a little thinking, the thread I'm linking may give a solution from shadowcop. You could do as he suggests
in this thread, his post # 11,510.. It would only take a couple dabs along the back rib that could be sanded to fit..
Similar to what CMMG has standard on some of their mags... Suspense, I'm making you go to the thread to find
out what to use...

This is in the Black Dog Machine Industry Forum which may be of interest too...
Link: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_328/202960_Fix_for_BDM_AR_mags_that_are_TOO_loose_in_the_magwell_.html


BTW: Congrats on a purchase that will give you a lifetime of Pure FUN......
Link Posted: 8/7/2011 11:33:19 AM EDT
Thanks for the link. I have since found another reference by shadowcop to J & B Quick set in a thread re: a CavArms lower that was having similar troubles with .22 magazines. I, of course, haven't used these mags yet and don't know if the fit is loose enough to affect function. I should find out Tuesday after work, assuming I can break free an hour or so before the range closes. According to the tracking number, the package had its arrival scan here in town early Saturday morning, but being UPS Ground it will have to wait until Monday to be delivered. I'm getting impatient, knowing my new upper is this >< close but still out of reach. Might have to take a pistol or two down to the range this afternoon to take the edge off, Lord knows I need the practice anyway.

I will give an update on how the mags function and how I tweaked the fit, if necessary.

Steve

Link Posted: 8/16/2011 9:49:12 PM EDT
OK, two of the BDM magazines function perfectly, no feed problems at all. On my first trip to the range, another gave me 2 stovepipes in about 100 rounds fired and the fourth stovepipes once per 20 rounds or so. I used the JB Weld on these last two mags and sanded them down to where they fit with little slop, but would still drop freely when I depressed the magazine release.

The one magazine that had 2 stovepipes seems to run fine for the 200 rounds I've ran through it since. The last one still pharts out once every 20 rounds, typically when there are 6 to 8 rounds left.

The upper itself has been running fine, no FTEs and 1 FTF (which I assume was just a bad Federal round). At 25 yards and using a front bag rest, all three brands of ammo consistently land in the inch and a half circles on the 50' small rifle targets I've been using (10 shot groups). The CCI has done better, giving me a few quarter size groups when I slowed down and paid attention to what I was doing. The same is true of the Winchester M22, more or less. I hope to shoot again Saturday, if I do I'm going to reduce the number of rounds shot and focus on accuracy. That should give a more fair comparison between the different brands of ammo.

Steve
Link Posted: 8/23/2011 7:01:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2011 7:35:05 PM EDT by OstentatiousOrc]
.22LR AMMO:
OK, I see there are 16 pages of info here. I gotta work in the morning, & it's late so forgive me if I missed something.

I just ordered my CMMG http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/item/M4-LE-.22-LR-Evolution-16-inch-Upper-wF-Marked-FSB-1513 upper, along with S.S. Bolt Upgrade, Mil-Spec Upgrade (I was informed that they are out of their normal ceramic finish so this is now "standard" but I was STILL charged for the upgrade (still licking my flanks from that one)..., I also got their: S.S. Go/No Go Collar, Bolt Hold Open Actuator, and 3 25 Round Bolt Hold Open Magazines. It all came to $502.39 , with Military discount & Shipping to my front step.

I just wanted to ask how many have used either (see list below) & what your views are on each, & WHY?:
CCI (Part #0030) Mini-Mag HV 40gr CPHP - Which is a 75 Yard Round
CCI (Part #0953) AR Tactical 40gr CPRN - Which is a 50 Yard Round
CCi (Part #0031) Mini-Mag HP 36gr CPHP - Which is a 75 Yard Round

Here's the info for each. I'm going to buy Bulk so your input & where you found the best deal, would be great !

Velocity, ft/sec
Load No. Caliber Muzzle 25 50 75 100
0030 22 Long Rifle 1235 1156 1092 1040 998
0953 22 Long Rifle 1200 1119 1056 1005 964
0031 22 Long Rifle 1260 1174 1104 1048 1003

Energy, ft-lbs
Load No. Caliber Muzzle 25 50 75 100
0030 22 Long Rifle 135 119 106 96 88
0953 22 Long Rifle 128 111 99 90 82
0031 22 Long Rifle 127 110 97 88 80

Trajectory
Load No. Caliber 25 50 75 100
0030 22 Long Rifle 0.7 1.3 0.0 -3.3
0953 22 Long Rifle 0.1 0.0 -2.1 -6.2
0031 22 Long Rifle 0.6 1.2 0.0 -3.2

Here's the info for each. I'm going to buy Bulk so your input & where you found the best deal would be great!
-OST

OH yah, I called & E-mailed Spikes Tactical & Tactical Solutions about their .22LR Upper's for the last 5 working days & no response.
CMMG sent me a free mag when I first contacted them & had questions abut their mag's, they earned my business.

Now, since my main has a https://danieldefense.com/rail-systems/omega-x-rail/omega-x-railtm-9-0-mid-length.html (Which has proven itself AMAZING!!!)
I'm adding a
http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/Accessories_RIS_Systems_Madbull_Daniel_Defense_7inch_Omega_Rail.htm to this Upper
for $90 - That's like $200 off the real thing for your "real" gun! It's the same as standard but NOT heat treated, so not authorized by DD for REAL WEAPON USE.
Should work for a .22
Link Posted: 9/16/2011 1:44:57 AM EDT
Anyone have any input from experience on the CMMG .22 kits regarding use in 1:7inch twist? I know most people says the accuracy is not very good at around 5-10 inches @ 50 yards but I feel like for just shooting body targets and the like that's all I really need. The gun I'd be using is my SR-15 E3. I don't want to really get a dedicated upper for a number of reasons including accuracy doesn't have to be near match grade, I don't want to loose my upper set up (sights, rail, etc.) or pay $$$ for another one, and I don't feel like hauling a bunch of junk every time I go to the range. With the kit I like how you just bring the tube and a few mags. KAC and others have told me the .22 round won't do any damage to the gun that a 5.56 or .223 wouldn't do so that isn't a concern. Just have to blow out the .22 and clean after use.

I guess what I'm asking if I can just get more info on your 1:7" twist accuracy, how you like the kit, and if you think it will be a good buy for my purposes.

Also, I've owned a M&P15-22 (as something to shoot before getting my SR) before and the accuracy wasn't the best either.

Thanks
Link Posted: 9/16/2011 8:29:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2011 8:29:42 AM EDT by SpecOps-13]
Right now, CMMG is the top contender for quality, accuracy and function. You will have pretty acceptable accuracy if you use Aguila SSS 60 Grain
Ammo with a standard CMMG Conversion Bolt. Upgrading to a stainless conversion would be my choice. If you want to get the absolute most out
of this arrangement, you could get the India Conversion. It locks into the chamber the same as an AR Bolt. But extra cost is also involved.

Good Luck,
Dave / Spec
Link Posted: 9/16/2011 9:11:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SpecOps-13:
Right now, CMMG is the top contender for quality, accuracy and function. You will have pretty acceptable accuracy if you use Aguila SSS 60 Grain
Ammo with a standard CMMG Conversion Bolt. Upgrading to a stainless conversion would be my choice. If you want to get the absolute most out
of this arrangement, you could get the India Conversion. It locks into the chamber the same as an AR Bolt. But extra cost is also involved.

Good Luck,
Dave / Spec


The E3 has a proprietary barrel extension so that one wouldn't work.
Link Posted: 9/16/2011 6:09:16 PM EDT
Thanx for posting that info. May have really pissed someone off who didn't realize the difference...

Dave
Link Posted: 10/6/2011 12:46:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/6/2011 12:47:50 PM EDT by wildearp]
Glad I found this thread. I am a bit late to this game, and just picked up a Ceiner conversion yesterday. I got some readings to do.......... It came with the Ceiner mag and a BDM 25 rounder for $120 total. Everything looks brand new.

I stuffed it in my Bushy SBR and need to get to the range.
Link Posted: 10/8/2011 12:13:58 PM EDT
After reading all 16 pages I still haven’t seen any discussion addressing anyone making a dedicated barrel for the M261 conversion unit. I haven’t had any luck with the search function either.

Someone out there must have or, is currently producing a dedicated barrel along with the associated rail stop or collar to make this work.

As I have a few M261’s, spare parts and magazine inserts I would really like the option of using one for a dedicated build along with the Black Dog magazines. A 16” lightweight carbine barrel w/ FSB would be ideal.

Anyone have any leads?

Wpns Man
Link Posted: 10/8/2011 12:58:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/8/2011 5:27:32 PM EDT by MikeS1970]
Originally Posted By WpnsMan:
After reading all 16 pages I still haven’t seen any discussion addressing anyone making a dedicated barrel for the M261 conversion unit. I haven’t had any luck with the search function either.

Someone out there must have or, is currently producing a dedicated barrel along with the associated rail stop or collar to make this work.

As I have a few M261’s, spare parts and magazine inserts I would really like the option of using one for a dedicated build along with the Black Dog magazines. A 16” lightweight carbine barrel w/ FSB would be ideal.

Anyone have any leads?

Wpns Man


http://www.compasslake.com/22uppers.htm

Compass Lake Engineering - expensive but one of the best and they use the 261 exclusively. Used by many service rifle match shooters for practice.

YMMV

Only other suggestion is to have a KKF type dedicated barrel built - .22LR bore and .223 chamber. I have an original KKF by the late Kurt Wala and I can use any of my conversions - Air Force, 261, Ciener, Colt, DPMS, Spike's, etc. - in the KKF upper. Accurate but then Kurt used very good barrels to begin with.

Link Posted: 10/8/2011 1:55:14 PM EDT
Thanks for the link,

I’m really looking for just a dedicated M261 compatible barrel though. I don’t need a service match quality upper for my purpose. I have enough spare parts around to build the configuration I’m after less the barrel.

Wpns Man
Link Posted: 10/8/2011 5:13:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/8/2011 5:26:15 PM EDT by MikeS1970]
Originally Posted By WpnsMan:
Thanks for the link,

I’m really looking for just a dedicated M261 compatible barrel though. I don’t need a service match quality upper for my purpose. I have enough spare parts around to build the configuration I’m after less the barrel.

Wpns Man


Olympic made or makes a dedicated .22 upper based on the 261. Don't know if the barrels are available separately. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=260636


http://www.military.com/entertainment/outdoor-guide/ar-hunting/hunting-small-game-with-ar.html

CLE might be able to make you a M4 type barrel on a custom basis - probably $$$.

There are a few other makers who might be able to do this but I can't think of them right now. Maybe our moderators might know. Accuracy Speaks? maybe?
Link Posted: 10/15/2011 2:56:15 PM EDT
I noticed that when you order a 22 upper from CMMG you have the option to leave off the bolt, saving $100.
If I order one of these MINUS the bolt, will my Ceiner 22lr bolt for my AR15 work in it?
Link Posted: 10/15/2011 5:57:40 PM EDT
Yes, your Ciener bolt should work. The upper from CMMG is shipped with the collar which replaces the Chamber insert on the end of the Ciener conversion. You slightly spread the rails and roll the chamber insert out and replace the collar by spreading the rails and rolling the collar the grooves onto the rails. I bought a CMMG upper and deleted the bolt because I already had a Ciener and parkerized CMMG bolt. Only thing is my upper was not shipped with a charging handle but fortunately I had a spare. If you don't mind not having a functional forward assist and don't want the bolt hold open which actuates the bolt catch your good to go using your Ciener. I figure when you delete the bolt your also deleteing the charging handle.
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