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Posted: 1/14/2021 7:18:50 PM EDT
My father in law showed me this the other day. He was in the Air Force during Vietnam and did a few tours there. We were wonduring what kind of AR15 he was issued.
Can you tell from a serial number?  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 7:40:04 PM EDT
[#1]
Going by the retro guide, his serial number falls in this range:
202,447-379,353 1965 US Property marked US Air Force M16 Colt's Model 604, and a few commercial export models. There are also examples of commerical/export marked models using the 20X,XXX serial number range produced in the late 1960's. |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 7:43:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Looks like that would be a USAF model 604, without forward assist. See the NSN number (stock number) 1005-00-856-6885 for the rifle at the top of the operator's manual cover:
 Attached File |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 8:02:32 PM EDT
[#3]
Why would they issue 36 rounds of ammunition? That is such an odd number (even though it is even)
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Posted: 1/14/2021 8:05:48 PM EDT
[#4]
I was trying to figure out if it was a weirdly written zero, but it sure does look like a six
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Posted: 1/14/2021 8:17:25 PM EDT
[#5]
Maybe issued 2 20rd magazines, but only loaded to 18rds each.
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Posted: 1/14/2021 8:21:34 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe issued 2 20rd magazines, but only loaded to 18rds each. That is the only semi logical explanation I could one up with also |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 8:48:41 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe issued 2 20rd magazines, but only loaded to 18rds each. Makes complete sense. |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 9:00:36 PM EDT
[#8]
We still use that same exact form!! The good ole 1297!
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Posted: 1/15/2021 2:08:27 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is the only semi logical explanation I could one up with also Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Maybe issued 2 20rd magazines, but only loaded to 18rds each. That is the only semi logical explanation I could one up with also Yes, that NSN is for the 20 rd. magazine (not that 30's were available in '67.) 18 rds. each. Seems a little light for Vietnam. Hell, we were issued 4 mags in a relatively safe NATO country in Cold War peacetime. Oh well, that's the Air Force for you... |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 7:37:06 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why would they issue 36 rounds of ammunition? That is such an odd number (even though it is even) 18 x 2 = 36. It was SOP back in the day to load 18 in a 20. Grunt superstition being, that made the magazine more reliable for feeding the first couple rounds but grunt superstition isn't always reality based. I think really, it's easier to do a hot reload with a mag loaded with 18 than with 20, when the bolt is closed and you're in a hurry. |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 8:05:48 AM EDT
[#11]
22.3 ?
Seriel? 36rds? And 20/30rd mags Sounds like the govt |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 12:33:22 PM EDT
[#12]
Same rifle i used in my USAF Basic training, M16, with two twenty rd. mags , and remember that the rifle was NEVER called the model 604, that was Colts model number. The USAF always called the Rifle, M16 5.56 Cal.
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Posted: 1/15/2021 1:08:57 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We still use that same exact form!! The good ole 1297! We use DA Form 2062... basically the same thing and it triggered me when I saw this |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 3:43:35 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same rifle i used in my USAF Basic training, M16, with two twenty rd. mags , and remember that the rifle was NEVER called the model 604, that was Colts model number. The USAF always called the Rifle, M16 5.56 Cal. Yes, no one in the Air Force called it a 604. In fact, there's probably only 3 guys in the USAF that know what a 604 is. This might surprise some people, but the Air Force doesn't have much of a small arms culture... |
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Posted: 1/15/2021 6:26:26 PM EDT
[#15]
Flippin awesome.
I’d buy an 80% and have it engraved with the correct markings and serial (seriel?) number. A fitting tribute. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 11:36:21 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, no one in the Air Force called it a 604. In fact, there's probably only 3 guys in the USAF that know what a 604 is. This might surprise some people, but the Air Force doesn't have much of a small arms culture... There was at least 5 people in my last unit that new and appreciated it. We also had old school Gau-5's before they switched us to M4's. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 2:05:25 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 18 x 2 = 36. It was SOP back in the day to load 18 in a 20. Grunt superstition being, that made the magazine more reliable for feeding the first couple rounds but grunt superstition isn't always reality based. I think really, it's easier to do a hot reload with a mag loaded with 18 than with 20, when the bolt is closed and you're in a hurry. My understanding is that on the 20 rounders it was very easy to attach the mag spring to the early metal followers incorrectly and that would cause problems with the first round or two. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 2:26:45 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe issued 2 20rd magazines, but only loaded to 18rds each. That's how I recall it. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 9:40:47 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My understanding is that on the 20 rounders it was very easy to attach the mag spring to the early metal followers incorrectly and that would cause problems with the first round or two. You may be correct. All I remember being told was, they weren't reliable with 20, but a specific reason was not issued along with the admonition. You remember. Right way, wrong way and the Army way? Army way. |
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