Right now, I’m chilling with a hobby-grade M&p 15 sport 2 through all the crap going on right now. Once things settle down I’d like a bit nicer rifle. I’ve been looking at Bravo a company and their rifles, specifically either their recce 16 or recce 14 rifles. Should I go with the 14.5 or the 16”? Some of the guys I know say they like the handling of the 14.5 over the 16, and that that little inch and a half difference does make a noticeable difference when maneuvering the rifle around structures and such. Others say stick with the 16”. What do you guys think?

I think you need to read up on SBR laws.

16"

More velocity, no need to SBR or pin&weld.  You can notice that 14.5 is a little shorter but not a huge difference.

By the way, nothing terribly wrong with an S&W rifle.

Should’ve clarified The 14.5 is already pinned and welded

16"
That way you can change your MD whenever you want and don't have to worry about SBR laws or a P&W.   Plus more more velocity.

Whichever way you guy, buy just the upper, and build (or buy) your lower for it separately.    My 16" has an SBA3 brace on it.....technically a pistol in IL (or a Firearm when I have the VFG on it), but I can I still put a stock on it and not run afoul of any Federal laws.

In which case there is no mechanical advantage.
Go 16" make use of the extra length for the extra few fps it will give you.

I'd go with 14.5" cause you aren't losing much velocity in that 1.5" of barrel.   I wouldn't go through the hassle of going the SBR route though either for only gaining 1.5" of maneuverability.  Build it as a pistol & for the $200 you save on the stamp, you can get a nice comfortable arm brace.

16".  Most people eventually want to change the handguard or muzzle device.  It's cheaper up front and down the road when the changes happen.

I'm a sucker for 14.5.

Why not have both?

I have both but imo, I like the 14.5" better.

Trying to figure that part out also.  Just because it is a basic rifle without lots of extra features added on like a match trigger, free float handguard, specialty furniture, or other do-dads the M&P line of rifles is not a line of crap.  One of my dear friends has M&P Sport 2 and he took a carbine course with me earlier this year with it.  While other guys and their frakenguns were having issues because of their low mass this or gucci gimmick shit were chasing malfunctions or parts breakage he just cruised through the course to find out he wanted a free float handguard.  Other than a MI FF handguard and magpul stock the rifle (excluding light and glass) is stock.  We were going to do another low/no light rifle pistol course together but COVAIDS ruined that.  FYI it is his duty rifle that he carries in his cruiser so while it does ride around in a car a lot doing nothing it does a lot more than most rifles.  Since he is a beat cop he does not have a lot of money so the Sport 2 was affordable for him.

Nothing to say against the sport 2, it has been a good little rifle for the limited amount I’ve done with it (shot a case of 193 thru it, no harsh conditions or extreme schedule of fire). Just decided I want something a little nicer, bit better specs, etc.

I voted 16". I find those few extra FPS useful in my world.

I'm gonna pin and weld, so no need to pay < Removed. Don't refer to LE in derogatory terms. -- BB > $200 or need to use a brace.

Maybe consider a 12.5” pistol? Shorter than 14.5, still got good velocity and you can change muzzle devices, handguards, etc anytime you want to.

I prefer 16" because you get better performance and range out of the 5.56, and aren't restricted to using a brace or a fixed muzzle device

So as of right now, it is 50/50....so the obvious answer is..."Get both".

Free float handguard and trigger would move that rifle up the pecking order a significant amount and for not much money.  The Sport2 really is not bad specs out of the box it is just a basic rifle without the pretty furniture, mil-spec style trigger, and no freefloat handguard.  200-300 dollars could get you a good amount of upgrades just my thoughts.  M-lok rail, MBT trigger, stock with QD sockets, and sling attachment points.

I have three 14.5 P&W carbines that are my favorites.

I’d go 14.5. It doesn’t seem like it’d make a huge difference but it’s definitely not insignificant. BCM makes a good rifle and if you don’t plan on changing it up much then the “limits” of a 14.5 pw don’t really apply.  

I think the whole muzzle device argument is a bit silly. A birdcage or modified birdcage like BCM’s is pretty darn good at flash suppression and the reality is that for most scenarios it’ll work just great.

I prefer my 16 govt over my 14.5 SOCOM.

I prefer 14.5 pinned and welded.  It doesn't require an SBR stamp, It works, works well and you can mount a bayonet. 14.5 pinned and welded vs a 16 is also shorter also so it is what it is.

That’s also what I was thinking. I’m not trying to tinker with all the newest accessories, I’m trying to get the best simplest effective rifle so I can shoot the puss out of it, get effective and leave it at that.

I just picked up a 14.5 pinned and welded m4 carbine upper from BCM last week before they sold out.  Fit and finish are excellent!  The BCM Mod4 charging handle will take some getting used to but it appears to be very robust compared to mil-spec handles.  I haven't shot or zeroed it yet but IMHO the coin was WELL worth it for the BCM.  You get what you pay for brother.  I hope this helps.  FWIW I have no connection to the aforementioned companies I merely use some of their kit.

Im my assessments, the cost and hassle of that extra step made it not really worth the bother.  When PSA had pre-done P&W, Most of the time even their P&W models were pretty premium priced.  The few times they had P&W for PSA prices, it was worth a hard look, but those always auto-sold out faster than I could decide.

How do you know it was worth it if you've never even shot it?

Not to mention if you are going to pin & weld it to 16" I don't think the ~3/4" that a screw on bird cage adds to the OAL isn't going to be noticed much over one that's 16" exactly.  Then you can change MD's whenever you want as well.  I built one pistol more out of curiosity than anything before they started allowing the braces then allowing them to be shouldered.  If it hadn't been for that, I probably wouldn't have built another, now I have 4!  Can't wait to build a few more if the insanity ever stops.  I couldn't see paying $200 just to be able to add a regular stock to it.  Maybe if I won the lottery & I could afford to buy several at one time along with some cans, then have a lawyer put them in a trust, I might change my mind.

There are advantages to that shorter barrel but plenty like it just because its what the military uses and becaise it's a little taboo.  

And that Sport II is a fine rifle.  A couple of accessories and you're holding a great little machine.

...The dudes complaining about 14.5 pinned & welded rifles and not being able to change stuff on them at will


Build it right the first time (with a purpose) and enjoy your 14.5 P&W

Wear out your barrel? Drill out the muzzle device (drill press $180, you should own one anyways) and replace Barrel.

Wear out the barrel and need to replace it in a pinch? Hacksaw off the end of the barrel just behind the muzzle device and replace barrel.

Anyone paying for pin and weld and not doing it themselves is getting robbed In my opinion

I was commenting on the appearance, build quality and QC with respect to what I can see.  How it performs I will find out soon however, BCM is a stand up company and that if in the off chance there is an issue I have NO doubt they would correct it but I for see no problem with it is all.

My smith charges $80 for p/w.  On a $400 dollar barrel, I'll let the guy with the tig welder do it right.  You do know most people don't own a welder and silver soldier is hit and miss?

Anyone with a welder can tack it so long as the pinning has been properly done. Most exhaust/tire shops have a dude that will tack weld something for $5.

$80 is exactly the robbery i was referring to

Also, most people don't buy $400 barrels so $80 would be about half the cost of the average new barrel. If I could afford $400 per AR barrel then I guess I would also be paying people to do everything for me as well.

You better love your muzzle device if you go 14.5" and 16" handles just as well... plus you can just put a short A2 on there and reduce the difference to under an inch vs a 14.5" with a pin and weld. A2 is fine on a 16" IMO.

QFT

There is nothing wrong with wanting a high-end rifle or an additional rifle just because you want it. So, if that's your goal, no need to rationalize it; sometimes it's nice to treat yourself to good stuff. However, if you're going with a high-end rifle to get better performance, it seems to me that you wouldn't want to lose any velocity at all. If you go from a 3 MOA rifle to a 2 MOA rifle (I'm making up the numbers), and then decrease the envelope of the bullet's operation by introducing a shorter barrel, it raises the question as to why you went from a 3 MOA rifle to a 2 MOA rifle in the first place. So you can be more accurate in at distances where it's not that hard to be accurate?

Of course this all assumes you shoot well enough to extract any extra performance. If you shoot as poorly as I do, maybe it doesn't matter.

I use surefire suppressors. Surefire recommends the muzzle device be installed with rock-set which is semi-permanent. In this instance, I think 14.5 P&W is perfectly justifiable especially when the shortest Surefire suppressor mount/muzzle device is 2.33in in length.

My Surefire mini suppressor + 14.5 barrel is about 1.8in longer compared to a 16in barrel with an A2 flashhider

16 inch for me.  I like being able to change out flash hiders if I want.  Also 1.5 inches isn’t a lot to fuse over in close quarters.

Man, who builds it right the first time?  Right for what?  Right for when?  Right for what equipment or use? Modularity and easy modification is one of the virtues of an AR.  

I thought I "built it right" the first time with a particular rifle until I wanted to go from A2 fixed front sight post to a free float rail with folding sight and a bit more accurate barrel.  Then, I thought a modular slim tube type rail would better suit my needs.  Then, after a while, I wanted to get a real match grade stainless barrel and thought that particular upper would be a good candidate.  A basic carbine morphed over time into a sub MOA 16" Recce with a $500 match (benchrest quality) barrel.  In response to another poster, yes, some of us do sometimes spend $400+ on a barrel.

One does not have to wear out a barrel to decide to replace it with something different.  Maybe we just want to upgrade an older 1:9 twist barrel to something like a 1:8 or 1:7 to shoot heavier bullets.

I've also gone from A2 flash hider to a better flash hider for night shooting, and then to a QD suppressor-ready flash hider.  I may consider a comp or brake.  The Recce currently has an indexed KAC QD flash hider for an NT4 can.

Other rifles have changed configuration as my needs change or newer equipment comes out.  I don't follow short term fashion trends, but I do believe in taking advantage of technology advances and objectively improved components.

Another carbine has moved in a totally different direction.

Yes, I do have one pin and weld 14.5.  I'm going the SBR route otherwise so that pin and weld will not be a requirement or hinderance.  We only have pin and weld because of stupid federal restrictions.

I have a pretty well-equipped shop with a nice floor-standing bench press, welding equipment, a small mill, lathe, a strong heavy duty bench vise, lots of pneumatic, electric and hand tools (many of which are AR specific).  Yes, I can pin and weld.  See above.

As "easy" as it is to do so, and as relatively easy as it is to remove a pin and weld device, time and convenience are factors.  It takes maybe one minute or two max to clamp a barrel in barrel blocks or wrap a strip of leather around the barrel just behind the muzzle, clamp it in a vise and spin the device off.  Then, everything is accessible.  Barrel or rail swaps become very easy.  

I absolutely love the modularity.  I've got the skill and equipment to do quite a bit more that pin and weld or to "undo" it.  But, I've better use of my time.  I can work on other rifles or different builds, reload ammo, do load development for match ammo, actually put in time behind the trigger that I would have spent doing or undoing what otherwise would take 1 or 2 minutes.  I also have vehicles and farm equipment to maintain.

The following comment isn’t a personal attack nor is it specifically addressed to you @MS556

If you cant answer the questions above for yourself and your rifle is for some type of hobby, then a non P&W rifle is probably better.

Get the 14.5 P&W upper and try it out on your current lower (assume you keep the M&P.)  I like the look and feel of the 14.5 over the 16.  Then SBR a lower and get a 11.5 , then a 10.3, then a complete 20"...the platform is so modular it is addictive.  You can have many uppers to a few lowers and swap around.  Even more fun when you buy a pile of parts and assemble yourself.

If the 14.5" is pinned and welded with a muzzle device that puts it over 16", that largely negates the value of using a 14.5" over a 16".

16" but my real vote is 20"

having a decent amount of experience with 10.3, 12, 14.5, 16 and 18...  

12ish and 16 are the sweet spots imo.  

eta - 12 seemed to get almost the same effective capability as the 14.5, but truly a  lot smaller than 16.  16 middy is smooth and the velocity bump over 14.5 is noticacble imo.

No offense taken.  Its good.  It's just that if you go 14.5 P&W, you only know the answer with hindsight, and then its a problem for many to "undo" the decision and change thr configuration just to have saved an inch and a half.

+1  

16" all the way for a general purpose rifle but 20" is even better.


Carbines are made for carrying.  Rifles are made for shootin stuff.

Scoped ff, 16".

Rds, fsb, 14.5".

Vehicle, braced 10.5" or 11.5".

FWIW, there appear to be some of the FAXON pre-pinned 14.5's still available out there.  These are kind of neat, because I think some of them are actually integrated machined, so it's a one piece 16" BBL rifled to 14.5", and then has either a flash-hider or a compensator machined into the end; and sized such as to be smaller than the gas block.  Pretty cool, cost effective, their rep is good (no experience), and I like the inginuity.  I'm seriously thinking about getting one, and if they made a BlackHawkDown ready version that was a 14.7" with what looked like an A2 FH on the end; I'd probably have on one on the way right now.  

Only reason I haven't, is I'm just not a fan of non-A2 flash hiders (personal aesthetics preference), and worry that a 14.5" with compensator is going to be excessively loud and concussive for general purpose usage.

THIS #GET BOTH, you have 16 S&W, go the 14.5 this time. Simple.

14.5" with a Warcomp would be ideal for most general applications.

I voted 16” but, honestly, same difference. I’ve got a hard use build that’s 16” but I’m building a 13.7” even-harder-use gun right now.