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Posted: 6/13/2018 11:37:57 PM EDT
[#1]
I like my 64gr gold dots just fine
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Posted: 6/13/2018 11:40:08 PM EDT
[#2]
I've chosen 62gr Fusion MSR and 77gr TMK as my standard in shorties although I do have some MK318, XM223SP1 and 64gr Gold Dot on hand.
I'm on mobile so it's tough to link but have you read my thread on suppressed SBR velocities from various barrel lengths? |
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Posted: 6/13/2018 11:43:20 PM EDT
[#3]
77gr OTM is what I use in my 10.5"
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Posted: 6/13/2018 11:49:40 PM EDT
[#4]
ra556b for me
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Posted: 6/14/2018 12:42:01 AM EDT
[#5]
I use 55gr soft point for my 10.5. 5.56
I wouldn’t use it for “hunting” or engaging armored targets because aside from Storm Troopers or taking in moose, this thing will fuck your whole day up. |
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Posted: 6/14/2018 7:07:48 AM EDT
[#6]
77 OTM
I use the same load in my 16" 3 gun AR and my 10.5" HD SBR. Accurate, great energy, very short cavity neck in gel and plenty of penetration in gel. |
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Posted: 6/14/2018 8:23:36 AM EDT
[#7]
For my 10.5" suppressed HD SBR, I have magazines loaded with 64gr GD, Hornady 75gr TAP T2, Hornady 75gr TAP SBR, BH 77gr TMK, but what's actually loaded in the SBR with optic zeroed is 62gr TBBC (FBIT3) based on the recent gel test from ARFCOM. As time goes by, and more credible information is available, my preference changes. I believe that any of the rounds I mentioned would be an effective short range, HD round. It's good to see what y'all are thinking too.
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Posted: 6/14/2018 8:43:35 AM EDT
[#8]
55gr gold dots
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Posted: 6/14/2018 8:52:56 AM EDT
[#9]
75gr hornady Black interlock
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Posted: 6/14/2018 6:47:44 PM EDT
[#10]
I used Federal 50gr polymer tip (Hornady) ammo from Walmart to shoot a 125lb. hog and was surprised how effective it was. It is now the ammo I keep loaded in my AR pistol for home defense purpose.
The hog was shot from about 30 yards and the aim was at the base of the skull where it attached to the neck. One shot and the hog DRT and just twitched a bit with no big fuss...dead before it even hit the ground. The round penetrated the neck and travelled slightly downward trajectory and exited on off side leaving a big 2 1/2" gash on the exit side. When I removed the skin there was massive amount of blood and big pieces of blood clot that fell out. The round did not hit the spine/neck. The lower velocity out of the 10.5" barrel made the bullet behave as a hunting round instead of varmint round. Next time I'm going to use Speer 64gr Gold Dot to see how that works. Here is the exit wound. 
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Posted: 6/14/2018 7:01:28 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like my 64gr gold dots just fine |
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Posted: 6/14/2018 7:04:53 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
75gr hornady Black interlock |
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Posted: 6/14/2018 7:19:23 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or 75gr Gold Dots if you can stabilize them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I like my 64gr gold dots just fine |
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Posted: 6/14/2018 10:04:58 PM EDT
[#14]
Hornady 556 75gr T2
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Posted: 6/14/2018 10:13:49 PM EDT
[#15]
75 Grain TAP T2
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Posted: 6/15/2018 12:27:44 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I use 55gr soft point for my 10.5. 5.56 I wouldn’t use it for “hunting” or engaging armored targets because aside from Storm Troopers or taking in moose, this thing will fuck your whole day up. I keep 55gr SP in my 11.5 but sometimes 64gr GD or 5.56 75gr T2 BTHP. Depends on how I'm feeling. |
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Posted: 6/15/2018 9:58:50 AM EDT
[#17]
I have several magazines loaded with my handloads of 64 grain Nosler Bonded Performance bullets, and a few mags of Speer Gold Dot factory loads. I believe those are 64 grain. They both shoot really well out of my suppressed 10.5" SBR.
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Posted: 6/15/2018 6:18:23 PM EDT
[#18]
I've got a big pile of 55 and 62grn SP in the form of Steelcase ammo from Russia. I keep about 120 rounds of "good" stuff in the form of 62gr Gold Dot but I wouldn't hesitate to grab either of the Russian offerings off the shelf to get the job done be it on 4 legged varmits or 2 legged predators.
Big thanks to our resident BlueFalcon for testing this stuff I sent to him. 55gr SP Brown Bear  Brown Bear 223 Rem 55 gr Soft Point | Gel Test 62gr SP Silver Bear  .223 gel test: Silver Bear 62 gr soft point |
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Posted: 6/15/2018 9:01:03 PM EDT
[#19]
Black Hills 50 gr. TSX.
 Why 50gr TSX Is The Ultimate 5.56mm Home Defense Load: Black Hills 5.56mm 50gr TSX Gel Test Fuck it. I give up. Search Black Hills 50 grain TSX on YouTube. chopinblock has the vid. |
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Posted: 6/15/2018 10:02:32 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Black Hills 50 gr. TSX.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3xgcu2yNRs
Fuck it. I give up. Search Black Hills 50 grain TSX on YouTube. chopinblock has the vid. Why 50gr TSX Is The Ultimate 5.56mm Home Defense Load: Black Hills 5.56mm 50gr TSX Gel Test |
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Posted: 6/16/2018 12:50:46 AM EDT
[#21]
Man that Black Hills 50gr TSX has crazy terminal performance! Also like the idea that with a longer barrel, it can punch through lvl III steel plate just like x193 (though not super practical, especially when we're talking 10.5"). The big downside is the $1.50/rd+shipping cost. Ouchies.
To the guys saying 77gr OTM (not the TAP variety), what's your reasoning for it? Seems a decent performer - generally has a short neck, frags heavily after 2-3", and penetrates to FBI standards. But 62gr SPs perform similarly (more due to expansion than fragging though). Is it because OTMs aren't barrier blind and would dump more energy upon hitting a barrier in case of a missed shot? Or is it more just because you already have it on hand (for accuracy/competition/tight groupings at the range) and it just happens to also have decent terminal ballistics? |
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Posted: 6/16/2018 8:40:29 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
snip.. To the guys saying 77gr OTM (not the TAP variety), what's your reasoning for it? Seems a decent performer - generally has a short neck, frags heavily after 2-3", and penetrates to FBI standards. But 62gr SPs perform similarly (more due to expansion than fragging though). Is it because OTMs aren't barrier blind and would dump more energy upon hitting a barrier in case of a missed shot? Or is it more just because you already have it on hand (for accuracy/competition/tight groupings at the range) and it just happens to also have decent terminal ballistics? Tech articles on the benefits heavy OTMs and the gel tests i've seen sold me on heavy OTMs years ago. The old link I had to Dr. Roberts article is dead and I cant find a new one. 1. great big gel cavity 2. short cavity neck 3. deep penetration in gel/tissue 4. less barrier blind. Great for inside a house, most bad guys done wear body armor and I don't see shooting through car windows or doors in my HD scenarios. 5. Heavy OTMs are very accurate out as far as your AR can shoot, if you are also using it for other types of shooting. Caliber consolidation is always a benefit. 6. lots of good 77/75 OTMs to choose from 7. affordable ammo, Sub $1.00 ammo is easy to find. |
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Posted: 6/16/2018 12:56:12 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like 77/75 OTMs for the reason you listed. Mostly MK262 and its clones. Tech articles on the benefits heavy OTMs and the gel tests i've seen sold me on heavy OTMs years ago. The old link I had to Dr. Roberts article is dead and I cant find a new one. 1. great big gel cavity 2. short cavity neck 3. deep penetration in gel/tissue 4. less barrier blind. Great for inside a house, most bad guys done wear body armor and I don't see shooting through car windows or doors in my HD scenarios. 5. Heavy OTMs are very accurate out as far as your AR can shoot, if you are also using it for other types of shooting. Caliber consolidation is always a benefit. 6. lots of good 77/75 OTMs to choose from 7. affordable ammo, Sub $1.00 ammo is easy to find. Regarding accuracy, no one's going to argue that. 75/77gr OTM is amazing especially out of the common 1/7 twist barrels. When talking SD/HD though, accuracy is kind of moot.. and even out to 100y, the difference between 1" and 2-3" (under ideal bench shooting conditions) doesn't mean much in a martial context. I will say that having an affordable, accurate round DOES lend itself to wanting to stock up it for target shooting, competition or really any application where you're looking for tight groups. And if it's already on hand, why not also use it for SD/HD? Regarding barrier blindness, I always have a hard time with this one. Obviously we all want to put hits on target, be cognizant of what's behind the target and minimize the risk of collateral damage from a missed shot. But how much of a role does this really play when we're talking about heavy OTMs? If it's capable of punching 12+" into bare gel like we want it to, it'll zip right through multiple layers of dry wall no problem. No way around that. If minimizing barrier blindness was really a concern, we'd opt for lighter varmint style rounds that dump their energy much faster, right? And some of that stuff is capable of sub-MOA as well (though definitely not as great at range since wind can pull it more). |
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Posted: 6/16/2018 10:05:27 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
snip. If minimizing barrier blindness was really a concern, we'd opt for lighter varmint style rounds that dump their energy much faster, right? snip |
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Posted: 6/17/2018 12:44:56 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is a big nope. Varmint loads will not penetrate enough. They blow up immediately and "might" not reach the organs of a 6ft, 250lb bad guy, especially wearing heavy clothing. |
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Posted: 6/17/2018 2:10:33 AM EDT
[#26]
These days there are a LOT of high quality choices. At short range I doubt they’d ever make much difference, and I’d use them interchangeably. TSX, TAP, Fusion, Gold Dot, even ‘boring’ stuff like m193 will FUCK shit up within its accept velocity.
You do you, but personally I use TMK for killing things, and it’s an absolutely devastating round. I’ve used heavy TMKs for hunting for years. Every shot enters and exits a white tail, whether it hits ribs or not, and turns the entire chest cavity to soup. |
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Posted: 6/17/2018 2:17:14 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Man that Black Hills 50gr TSX has crazy terminal performance! Also like the idea that with a longer barrel, it can punch through lvl III steel plate just like x193 (though not super practical, especially when we're talking 10.5"). The big downside is the $1.50/rd+shipping cost. Ouchies. To the guys saying 77gr OTM (not the TAP variety), what's your reasoning for it? Seems a decent performer - generally has a short neck, frags heavily after 2-3", and penetrates to FBI standards. But 62gr SPs perform similarly (more due to expansion than fragging though). Is it because OTMs aren't barrier blind and would dump more energy upon hitting a barrier in case of a missed shot? Or is it more just because you already have it on hand (for accuracy/competition/tight groupings at the range) and it just happens to also have decent terminal ballistics? I’ve had OTMs icepick on game. I’ve never had Fusion, Gold Dot, or TMKs do anything but colossal damage. Additionally while my OTMs often shoot very precisely, TMKs are usually MOAish, and Gold Dot/Fusion usually are good for 1.5ish MOA. |
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Posted: 6/17/2018 7:47:05 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m hesitant about heavy OTMs given the current crop of alternatives. I think they were great when it was a 77SMK vs standard ball ammo FMJs, but today we have so many more consistent performers. I’ve had OTMs icepick on game. I’ve never had Fusion, Gold Dot, or TMKs do anything but colossal damage. Additionally while my OTMs often shoot very precisely, TMKs are usually MOAish, and Gold Dot/Fusion usually are good for 1.5ish MOA. I mean obviously icepicking was a huge issue with m855 because the mild steelcore messes with the bullet stability. m193 tumbles more reliaby, but can also icepick if it falls below that 2500(?) fps mark. But yeah - Heavy OTMs were adopted by the military for precision work and meet the Hague Convention' criteria for not being HPs (and thus being allowed for warfare). Terminal performance being better than 193 and 855 was just a bonus. Never was a time where it was FMJs vs SMKs for us like you said - As civy's, we've always been able to use SPs/HPs to our heart's content lol. |
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Posted: 6/17/2018 1:11:50 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The lower velocity out of the 10.5" barrel made the bullet behave as a hunting round instead of varmint round. Next time I'm going to use Speer 64gr Gold Dot to see how that works. Here is the exit wound. http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y250/rug357/Farm/Wound_zpswlpc5g3m.jpg I've seen some of the .308 varmint rounds loaded in 300blk and moving 1900-2000fps provide adequate penetration and nasty expansion down to 1600fps. |
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Posted: 6/17/2018 8:42:33 PM EDT
[#30]
I’ve seen the results of literally every bullet mentioned in this thread on flesh. When they strike vitals (even the light vmax rounds) the real life results are beyond adequate. When anything comes between the bullet and the vitals, nothing (not even the gold dots) have worked well. Not saying the bullet failed (gold dots don’t) but didn’t reach the vitals with enough authority to do much. Shot placement is still king regardless of projectile.
I use 77 TMKs, 64 Gold Dots, and 50 v-max depending on the intended role. |
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Posted: 6/18/2018 12:46:34 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's something I was wondering about actually: whether there's ever been cases of 77gr OTM just ice picking right through. I thought tumbling/fragging on impact (even at lower velocities) was pretty consistent due to the rearward weight of OTM giving it the right level of yaw? Hence why doorkickers/assaulters issued 10.3"/14.5"s were stealing it off the snipers it was originally meant for? I mean obviously icepicking was a huge issue with m855 because the mild steelcore messes with the bullet stability. m193 tumbles more reliaby, but can also icepick if it falls below that 2500(?) fps mark. But yeah - Heavy OTMs were adopted by the military for precision work and meet the Hague Convention' criteria for not being HPs (and thus being allowed for warfare). Terminal performance being better than 193 and 855 was just a bonus. Never was a time where it was FMJs vs SMKs for us like you said - As civy's, we've always been able to use SPs/HPs to our heart's content lol. |
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Posted: 6/18/2018 7:51:04 PM EDT
[#32]
Speer told me, in an email, they would be releasing gold dot projectiles for reloading. I'd start if they do.
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Posted: 6/20/2018 3:21:44 AM EDT
[#33]
read the rest of the thread 
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Posted: 6/20/2018 3:48:59 AM EDT
[#34]
I have Fusion (MSR) and Nosler 64gr
...I bought every box they (a retailer) had back in January, and they're still out of stock 
I'll also be buying TSX. |
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Posted: 6/20/2018 12:28:51 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have Fusion (MSR) and Nosler 64gr ...I bought every box they (a retailer) had back in January, and they're still out of stock
I'll also be buying TSX. |
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Posted: 6/21/2018 9:24:08 AM EDT
[#36]
Black Hills 5.56 pressure TMK loading, not the SMK. SMK does not perform to the same distance, has a longer neck in the wound channel, and more wind drift. Its not a barrier round though.
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Posted: 6/22/2018 8:56:40 AM EDT
[#37]
mk318 is my fav
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Posted: 6/22/2018 6:23:21 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Black Hills 5.56 pressure TMK loading, not the SMK. SMK does not perform to the same distance, has a longer neck in the wound channel, and more wind drift. Its not a barrier round though. |
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Posted: 6/22/2018 7:41:41 PM EDT
[#39]
IMI 77gr
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Posted: 6/22/2018 10:52:28 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now that TMKs are out, I don’t see any real reason to go with SMKs. TMKs produce so much better and more consistent wounding, and to a further range. I think SMKs are just a tiny bit more inherently accurate, like a fraction of an MOA, at least for me they are. But even that is negated at range by the TMKs superior BC allowing for greater real world accuracy. |
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Posted: 6/23/2018 2:49:31 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't trust plastic tips in ARs though. Heard too many reports of tips breaking off and deadlining a lower like a popped primer. |
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Posted: 6/23/2018 6:05:16 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Damn! Never thought about that. I have had sever TMK tips broke, but never had a dead trigger because of it. I don't load them anymore. I don't need the extra BC and extra $$ for what I shoot. Hornady BTHP works for what i shoot and much cheaper. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I don't trust plastic tips in ARs though. Heard too many reports of tips breaking off and deadlining a lower like a popped primer. |
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Posted: 6/23/2018 8:39:35 PM EDT
[#43]
Fusion MSR in my 10.3.
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Posted: 6/24/2018 12:40:47 PM EDT
[#44]
IMI 77gr OTM for all of my short barrels
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Posted: 6/24/2018 7:37:22 PM EDT
[#45]
Loving this thread. Got a case of Mk318 on the way, so thanks!
I am hoping it shoots to a similar point of aim as m855, anybody tried that? I probably won't be shooting a ton of it, just keeping it for social purposes. It would be really handy to keep the zeros the same. |
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Posted: 6/24/2018 7:58:43 PM EDT
[#46]
I might go Mk318 for my 11.5" also. 70 grain TSX seems to have a longer neck than 50 grain TSX (BH optimized) but 50 grain is really expensive and has a higher expansion floor.
I like htat Mk318 is about 65 cents a round too and may share a zero with M855. |
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