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Posted: 8/26/2010 10:35:05 PM EDT
[#1]
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Iron Sights? Sad that halfway down the thread the right answer finally comes out |
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Posted: 8/27/2010 12:15:45 AM EDT
[#2]
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I'm in suburban CT, so I probably have the exact same SHTF scenario facing myself as well. I just got yesterday an Aimpoint CompM2 (4 MOA) from SWFA's "sample list" for $430 shipped. It is the overruns from a kit that was being produced for the Army/Airforce exchange (AAFES). Not worried about the battery life. If SHTF and myself, last more than the 3 to 5 years that the batt does, I'll revert to my 20+ years of shooting irons. I'm more concerned about Katrina-length issues, so maybe 6 to 8 weeks of mayhem is my worst case scenario. I think this has everything I'd need for a 5.56 gun in this state. Although SOME magnification would be nice to properly identify targets, I can always get a magnifier for this red dot. If I can't reach a target with this dot in CT, I need to step up to .308 at that point anyways. As soon as my wallet recovers, I'll be buying up the first LaRue "po boy" magnifier that shows up on the EE. This is a neat little magnifier in a flip to side mount, that is actually a German Hendsholt (think Zeiss) optic that originally went with a recoilless rifle I think, or a rocket launcher or something, that LaRue had cut down, removed the reticle, and sold at a huge bargain with the only provision of it not having any warranty on the glass itself. They go for $75 to $150 on the EE when people give theirs up. +1, that type of scenario is what I'm worried about! I have been considering an M2 because of their battery life and the overall great reviews of it.... also because an M4 is not within my budget 
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Posted: 8/29/2010 9:21:55 PM EDT
[#3]
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I think it depends on: 1. What is your definition of 'SHTF'? (world ending as we know it, localized natural disaster, world war, etc) 2. Where do you live? (urban environment, open farmland, woods, etc) Protecting a farm in rural Illinois from the world ending vs a natural disaster in Manhatten would require two totally different optics. I think the BEST would be the new S&B 1-8 Short Dot –– 1x Red Dot and 1x-8x mil-dot scope in one. What if a series of natural disasters led to a world war and you were trapped in an urban environment trying to lead your loved ones to escape into the woods but had to first cross open farmland? 
Could happen. Get an Ontos. |
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Posted: 8/30/2010 4:59:18 AM EDT
[#4]
Alot of the police around here like the Leupold CQT.
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Posted: 8/30/2010 7:07:22 AM EDT
[#5]
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Iron Sights? Sad that halfway down the thread the right answer finally comes out Sigh.... and usually the ones that advocate this, have no clue and no lights on there guns.... |
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Posted: 8/30/2010 7:14:58 AM EDT
[#6]
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Iron Sights? Sad that halfway down the thread the right answer finally comes out Sigh.... and usually the ones that advocate this, have no clue and no lights on there guns.... Thats not a very cool statement ––- Sorry I guess the correct wording should have been ( Nice Statement ) |
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Posted: 8/30/2010 7:16:40 AM EDT
[#7]
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Iron Sights? Sad that halfway down the thread the right answer finally comes out Sigh.... and usually the ones that advocate this, have no clue and no lights on there guns.... Welcome to 2010. I agree with Harv. Not to say that iron sights are not needed, because I feel that they are. But not as the only or even the primary method of aiming. |
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Posted: 8/30/2010 7:38:26 AM EDT
[#8]
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Iron Sights? Sad that halfway down the thread the right answer finally comes out Sigh.... and usually the ones that advocate this, have no clue and no lights on there guns.... Thats not a very cool statement ––- It's not about being cool. It's about killing bad guys and surviving. We are men here (mostly) and men tell it like it is. |
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Posted: 8/30/2010 8:26:41 AM EDT
[#9]
I'm so thankful you guys chimed in here....I was afraid this thread would be devoid of trivial chest-thumpin' drama.
The correct answer is that irons should be a part of any SHTF gun...as a back up - either in the folded position or cowitnessed. The benefits of a quality RDS, ACOG, or low power variable cannot be dismissed. |
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Posted: 8/30/2010 8:30:58 AM EDT
[#10]
Aimpoint T-1
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Posted: 8/30/2010 10:20:14 AM EDT
[#11]
I own a few ACOGs in different flavors, but when putting together defensive carbines I keep coming back to the tried-and-true Aimpoint Comp M2/LaRue LT-150 combo. For me it's about geography as much as anything else. Where I live the chances of me taking a shot in anger at a distance greater than 100m is pretty much zero. While I've gotten pretty fast with the ACOGs over the years I can still acquire targets faster with an Aimpoint
I may be in the minority, but I prefer the eye relief and speed of the 3.5x ACOG over the 4x, despite the added weight: 
ETA: Here's a typical carbine patterned for defensive/training use: 
Since the vast majority of my training and practice consists of 0-200 meter shooting my carbines are pretty low-tech compared to many. I don't freefloat them for example, because at those distances I don't need to. The only thing missing in the pic above is the sling. |
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Posted: 8/30/2010 3:17:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted by clharr - It's not about being cool. It's about killing bad guys and surviving. We are men here (mostly) and men tell it like it is.[/quote]
I,m Sorry I guess the correct wording should have been ( Nice Statement )––- I understand very well about killing bad guys and surviving ( Been there -Done that ) |
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Posted: 8/30/2010 9:10:57 PM EDT
[#13]
TR24 ––- daytime
Aimpoint –––– night time J223... |
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Posted: 8/31/2010 3:44:08 AM EDT
[#14]
I've got a leupod 1.5-5 w/ illuminated German #4 with larue mount and BUIS the scope holds two extra batteries and plenty of dead folks with watches on by the time thoose 3 run out
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Posted: 8/31/2010 7:53:17 AM EDT
[#15]
CompM4 is the best optic available for all purpose use.
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Posted: 9/4/2010 1:58:07 AM EDT
[#16]
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Iron Sights? Sad that halfway down the thread the right answer finally comes out Forget some of the rifle range mafia cliche, optics are just so much more effective when shooting at others while under stress. I have tons of time behind both and in fire fights and the optic is just an order of magnitude more effective. |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 7:44:39 AM EDT
[#17]
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anything that requires batteries will be useless shortly after the end of the world because they will start dying and then replacements will get harder and harder to find. An Aimpoint will last 5-8 years on one battery for the "end of the world" scenario. In 5-8 years ... a. You will be dead like everyone else. b. You have have an extensive arms collection taken off the bodies of dead looters. Your bigger concern should be 5-8 weeks when the average joe sixpack runs out of food, cigarettes, and beer. They will be going door to door in small groups looking for what you socked away. You have to survive this initial onslaught to make it to the next level (5-8 years battery life on your Aimpoint). Well said. An M4s will run 80,000 hrs on medium setting on just one AA battery. In fact I've heard someone tried a "dead" AA battery (taken from a portable radio) in their M4s and it ran for almost a year on this weak battery. I have an Aimpoint T1 micro and it uses the 2032 watch type battery. It will run 50,000 hrs (5.7 years!) on this battery continuously. I keep a spare 2032 taped to the inside of the trapdoor grip on my AR along with a few spare parts in small ziplock baggies. There should be no concern for battery life at all when using an Aimpoint. |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 8:28:31 AM EDT
[#18]
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Iron Sights? Sad that halfway down the thread the right answer finally comes out Forget some of the rifle range mafia cliche, optics are just so much more effective when shooting at others while under stress. I have tons of time behind both and in fire fights and the optic is just an order of magnitude more effective. Says the wise man with experience...... Sad how folks can not embrace it and live in the past....
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Posted: 9/4/2010 12:06:11 PM EDT
[#19]
I would want a variable power optic like a Nightforce 2.5x10 or 1x4 and yes buis too. Optics like this have been tested and proven in some of the worst situations so I would gladly trust it in a shtf situation.
I would be determined to keep distance from possible threats and thats where magnification would be needed, not only for engagement but also observation. |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 2:30:22 PM EDT
[#20]
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TA33.....tough, reliable, fast- almost as fast as my aimpoint at cqb, well worth the tiny bit in speed for the magnification/adversary ID....... I have both and would ALWAYS choose the ACOG. +1 I have both as well.. I would go with ACOG... However if I knew for sure all action would be under 100 yards I would go with aimpoint. However you can never be sure so I would go with ACOG. I am happy with both. YMMV but that is my opinion. |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 3:34:43 PM EDT
[#21]
IMHO, a SHTF situation is full of unknowns.
Because of that, I voter for the MOST FLEXIBLE optic among the choices listed: TR24. I is almost as fast as any red dot or iron sight but it also has the option for increased magnification if needed. 
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Posted: 9/7/2010 12:24:03 PM EDT
[#22]
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IMHO, a SHTF situation is full of unknowns. Two is one; one is none. This combo works: TA31F on a LaRue RCO mount along with a T-1 on an LT-724 (but so does a T-1 with a 3X Aimpoint magnifier on an LT-659.) A KAC 300m fits on the rail if Mr. Murphy craps on everything. A light, too, Harv.
Nathan runs an RCO with a T1 in a LT offset mount.
I have one of these combos, and it has potential. I just can't warm up to it. S/F Pat sends www.eagtactical.com  |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 1:33:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Aimpoint T-1. Any other red dot adds unnecessary weight.
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Posted: 9/8/2010 9:58:14 AM EDT
[#24]
I went through this during my quest for the perfect SHTF setup. My findings: Between the T-1 and the TA-11 it was a draw with all their weaknesses and strengths added to the equation. The one thing that stood out for me. Getting a good sight picture at night or during low-light. The T-1 stood out in this scenario with ease. As good as the ACOG's are, at night they suck. And isn't that when most of the bad guys are going to show up? Of course, the combo of both optics is the clear do-it-all winner! |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 10:22:43 AM EDT
[#25]
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Iron Sights? Sad that halfway down the thread the right answer finally comes out Forget some of the rifle range mafia cliche, optics are just so much more effective when shooting at others while under stress. I have tons of time behind both and in fire fights and the optic is just an order of magnitude more effective. Says the wise man with experience...... Sad how folks can not embrace it and live in the past....I think we arent seein it from the right perspective, the S hasnt really HTF until my aimpoint actually breaks. 
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Posted: 9/8/2010 10:34:22 AM EDT
[#26]
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The finishing piece to my build in the near future is the optic and I've started thinking up the choices and I've narrowed it down to three unless you guys have better recomendations that apply to the title I was thinking: trigicon ta33 green horseshoe aimpoint comp m3 trigicon tr24 green triangle ret input?  supra, i have been a long time fan of red dot optics. and have had my comp m3 for a couple years now and I love it. I recently bought a TR24G for 3 gun matches; to help me with 200 yard targets. I just zeroed my TR24G this last weekend at 200 yards...and averaged about 2 MOA (4 inch grouping). I also shot at a man sized target at 300 yards...holding the tip of the triangle at the target's neck. With four shots, ended up with a 5 inch grouping on the target's chest. Given the chance to start over though; i woud consider a 4X acog with a Micro T1 angle mounted. I love the speed of red dots...and with the 4x acog; you have best of both worlds. The only negative for me in that particular setup is that not all 3 gun matches let you run more than one optic. |
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