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Posted: 5/30/2007 5:10:24 PM EDT
[#1]
You stated flat out in another thread that they still had issues. Now you want to see if they still have issues? 
I guess I have kept my AR10s even though they have "issues" and don't run worth a damn, huh. |
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Posted: 5/30/2007 6:04:05 PM EDT
[#2]
Yea because I want it to run perfect because I like the Company and under ARF law buy both. I like the DI rifle system and really like the 308 platforms because there easier to clean IMO because of the larger extension,upper and chamber area. Not to mention there 308 and is there any other round
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Posted: 5/30/2007 6:08:22 PM EDT
[#3]
Mine do run perfect. The one with the stainless steel barrel is a 2000 model and it has always run like a top. The others are all newer including the Eagle Arms 10T that I built from parts from the "Gone Wild" sale. In fact, except for the 10A4 with SS barrel and the 10A2 carbine, the rest were all put together by me from "sales" parts for the most part. Once I have gotten each one broken in, I have not had problems. |
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Posted: 5/30/2007 6:20:45 PM EDT
[#4]
I can't go along with your analogy. its much closer to: There's a company called Royal that designed and built BAR rifles during WWI&II licensing the design to others for the war effort. Since then they have gone out of business and are no longer a commercial entity neither protecting their TM nor producing any goods under it for longer than twenty years which causes default and it becomes public domain and manufacturers like Phillidelphia Ord and others produced Royal BARs. But then Ford buys Royal and all of a sudden something that was public is now owned, litigation tries to sweep the truth under the carpet but history cannot be undone. Then the Fordofiles try to say that they have a better idea when all they did was buy an defaulted public name and copy Chevy's (KAC's) designs. AI AR10-Dan in Ga |
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Posted: 5/30/2007 6:29:04 PM EDT
[#5]
Larry G ... Once you got them broken in?????? My DPMS has been flawless from round #1. So I guess that settles it. DPMS is better.
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Posted: 5/30/2007 6:30:24 PM EDT
[#6]
Very funny. |
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Posted: 5/30/2007 6:30:44 PM EDT
[#7]
tread lightly Armalite backers lock threads
sorry FFR about your pole post. |
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Posted: 5/30/2007 8:01:11 PM EDT
[#8]
Please illustrate one instance of Mark Westrom licensing his companies design to anyone...?? Remember his is NOT the AR-10A, nor is it the KAC. It's the M-10, designated the AR-10B. A trademark issued by the US Patent & Trademark Office is a legally binding document/mark. In my example, two separate companies want to sell similar but mostly different products, but one company, Ford, wants to use a very similar derivative name that is trademarked and in use by its DIRECT competitor, Jeep. A legal non-starter of a case for the company trying to infringe on the trademark. I'm not sure why this is so unclear for someone who seems well versed enough to have a pleasant discussion, but it's usually covered, in some depth, in the first semester of Business Law. Just because Ugarte didn't ever pursue litigation against anyone doesn't mean that his ownership of the trademark was any less legally binding. The history of the matter lies in the legal document trail. Ugarte had the mark. Ugarte sold the mark to Westrom. US Patent & TM has ArmaLite on file. Therefore, all the romanticism of free and unrestrained enterprise aside, ArmaLite holds the trump card as of today -- 31 May 2007. |
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Posted: 5/30/2007 10:38:27 PM EDT
[#9]
I have 2 DPMS 308s and they ran perfectly right out of the box. No matter what I feed them they both run like a top (24" and 16" barrels). I thought about the FAL mag issue but once I saw how smooth the DPMS mags run I haven't given much thought since. Buy all the mags you think you will need to circumvent a possible high-cap mag ban. I've found 44mag to have some of the best prices around at $30 per mag. I have also bought a few $6 dollar FAL mags and most have needed work.
The first time I had my 24" DPMS LR308 at the range the guy next to me was shooting his brand new JP AR-15. That JP was sweet but so was the price. I could match his rifle shot for shot at 100 yards coming in at about .5 groups. We were both shooting Federal Match ammo. I think he was a little disappointed when he saw my target especially since I was shooting an $875 rifle. He had well over $3,000 in his rig with options. Nevertheless, I have been extremely happy with the performance of both of my DPMS 308s. Actually, I was only trying to buy a .308 plinker but ended up with two accurate rifles out of the box. Now, the LR308 is my long-range target rifle. I guess I still need another plinker :) By the way, the DPMS 308s look just like an AR-15 on steroids. Most parts interchange but a few items won't like the buffertube and spring. I'll be buying another DPMS stainless as I've got the bug. |
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Posted: 5/30/2007 10:44:13 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 5/31/2007 4:56:44 AM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 5/31/2007 6:47:22 AM EDT
[#12]
Bzzt. Wrong. AR-10B family of weapons. Not the same, is it?
That's the straw you are grasping for? Come now, that's quite a reach.
Well, you can't have it both ways. Either Ugarte held the trademark and legally sold it to Mark Westrom OR it was available as a trademark and could be pursued by Mark Westrom for purchase. By your own contention, it couldn't have been inactive. There were people producing AR-10's all along. Their failure was in that they did not trademark the name. Shame on them. The AR-10 and ArmaLite name were never inactive entirely, were they? Therefore, Mark Westrom's procurement from Ugarte was either legally binding OR his pursuit of the unrestrained trademark was also legally binding. To PROVE you are correct YOU'D have to spend money. Which is clearly more difficult than shooting off your mouth on the internet at every chance. Isn't it?  |
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Posted: 5/31/2007 7:08:21 AM EDT
[#13]
Shivan and Larry G are always right when it comes to Armalite so drop it, its rude to give your opinion here
. The reason its rude is it leads to locked posts and the poster may not get the answers he needs. This is not a free speech board. cool |
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Posted: 5/31/2007 10:57:25 AM EDT
[#14]
This exact post is why threads get locked. Quite simply the juvenile way in which you choose to carry on your discussions is better suited for General Discussion. Might I suggest you post there more? These are technical forums. Meaning opinions are largely checked at the door, unless they have factual basis. Your insistance at pushing this issue is tiresome. "Calling out" specific members is a sure way to get both a thread, and your account, locked. I'm genuinely apathetic to which brand name any poster likes more than the other. What I look for is fact based posting, mostly on topic posting, and generally following the flow of the thread. I will intervene this one last time to give you this one last chance to start posting in a redeeming fashion in these technical forums. If you can't, your posts will be edited, and it will be submitted higher up the food chain for review. That normally doesn't go well for the people who are reviewed. Fair warning. Heed it, or not, it will be your last. -OverBored |
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Posted: 5/31/2007 11:27:10 AM EDT
[#15]
There have been a number of things I have not been impressed with about my DPMS LR308 at all. I've had to "fix" a lot of that factory F-ups and / or poor design. That said, it's basically where I want it now.
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Posted: 5/31/2007 11:50:52 AM EDT
[#16]
Want to hear contrasting viewpoints??
If you talk to the former head of the AMU program he likes the ArmaLite AR-10's, a lot. He certainly defends them in writing over the KAC and other platforms a fair amount of time. He posts here some. Having probably seen 1000's and 1000's of rounds through ArmaLite AR-10 products. On the flip side, I have seen many combat/firearms/tactics instructors, whose opinions I trust, write that there is no "AR-10" {generic usage referring to .308 autoloaders} that's worth a shit where the rubber meets the road. Not even the vaunted SR-25/Mk11. Think about the money and development time (40+ years) that has gone in to the 5.56 M16/AR-15 family. The .308 autoloaders are in their relative infacy, from both R&D and a chronological standpoint. Somewhere in the middle of all the crap is the "real story". I guarantee that there are more functioning AR-10's that haven't been mucked with, than there are problems. Not everyone is as capable at armorer level repair as they think they are.... 
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Posted: 5/31/2007 12:28:26 PM EDT
[#17]
And the best 308 rifle is the one that you can afford.
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Posted: 6/2/2007 5:00:48 PM EDT
[#18]
WOW!!! never thought I'd get such a heated argument going over that question. I really didn't know that RRA had not delivered any .308's yet. I've just been thinking about getting one and wanted some opinions. Yeah, I guess the SR 25 is nice but it's also expensive. I've never heard anything bad about the DPMS but the price almost seems too good to be true. Anybody know how they shoot at 600 yds?
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Posted: 6/2/2007 5:03:41 PM EDT
[#19]
Anyone know anything about the Fulton Armory Titan?
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Posted: 6/2/2007 9:14:48 PM EDT
[#20]
Over-priced, re-badged DPMS. |
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Posted: 6/3/2007 7:48:26 AM EDT
[#21]
I have shot the TAC 20 and the LR308 along with my 300S(SAUM) at 600. The 2 308s shoot/shot round 4" groups for me with a fixed 3200 10x if I had a better scope and worked more with the rifles I would improve that. At 400 yards I get around 2" groups and at 100 I get alot of 1/4 MOA(I don't use MOA at longer range its too forgiving IMO).
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Posted: 6/3/2007 9:39:21 AM EDT
[#22]
...
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Posted: 6/3/2007 9:46:52 AM EDT
[#23]
You got 1/4 MOA out of an LR308?!?! Ya got any target pics? I think getting sub-MOA out of these is certainly possible, but 1/4 I have to call BS without some proof to those big claims. |
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Posted: 6/3/2007 9:53:14 AM EDT
[#24]
Is that a fact? The receivers, Bolt Carrier Group, etc are made by DPMS? |
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Posted: 6/3/2007 10:25:21 AM EDT
[#25]
Man those Titans really look like DPMS parts so i would say yes or there getting there parts from the same place DPMS does.
The worst shooting DPMS I have is the 300 SAUM which shoots all 4 rounds from its mag into a single ragged hole(Quarter size). Now I'm a better than average shot and have good steel rings and J&P triggers in my 2 DPMSs. The TAC 20 and the LR308(no longer own) have had lots of 3 round groups that were all 3 in one single impact hole. The groups look like the test targets from a Cooper rifle, which BTW are shot off a bag with a 20X Luepold scope at 40 yards(what a rip). DPMS ARs shoot great but so do AR10Ts at least mine does. It just doesn't work 100% yet. |
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Posted: 6/3/2007 10:28:23 AM EDT
[#26]
...
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Posted: 6/5/2007 2:00:13 PM EDT
[#27]
Wow. The trademark issue has generated a lot of interest. There's been some pretty good research done so we'll clear some things up. One member noted: "The history of the matter lies in the legal document trail. Ugarte had the mark. Ugarte sold the mark to Westrom. US Patent & TM has ArmaLite on file. Ugarte did not hold legal title, it defaulted to the public domain due to inactivity. Therefore, all the romanticism of free and unrestrained enterprise aside, ArmaLite holds the trump card as of today -- 31 May 2007. To shut me up will cost money and Armalite will not spend it, to do so will reveal the undeniable truth." Frankly, we don't see any reason to shut the member up. He hasn't got the full story but it's not like he's trying to steal the trademark or anything. When somebody infringes we normally just call or send a letter and the matter is resolved in a couple days. Exceptions are rare. Here's what happened: Mark Westrom started developing a .308 in 1995 to be called the M-10. On a visit to a former ArmaLite/Fairchild employee he was introduced to the old Production Manager, named John Mcgerty . He led Westrom to Ugarte. Ugarte had the registration but hadn't apparently used the trademark for a few years. Under these conditions it would have been legal for Westrom to take the name over. It wouldn't have been quite honest though, despite the legal availability, so Westrom paid Ugarte for the rights (whether they'd been abandoned or not) and firmed the trademark up by registering it and by putting rifles into production. All of that is expensive, but the trademark is worth it. In the process Westrom ended up with more than the trademark, which is what everybody focused on at the time. He also got a small amount of technical data, hardware, and machinery. Key remaining ArmaLite Engineers continue to help out as needed. It seems that Ugarte didn't sell before checking with other old ArmaLite staff, and there's been a good relationship between remaining key staff members and ArmaLite. Ugarte passed away a couple years ago. |
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Posted: 6/5/2007 2:45:48 PM EDT
[#28]
Got this out of my MK11 @ 100 yards (5 shot groups) 44.0 grains of Varget 175 grains SMK OAL:2.800
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Posted: 6/5/2007 3:05:02 PM EDT
[#29]
Why do they always brag... when they miss the da-da-damn coin? |
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Posted: 6/5/2007 3:31:02 PM EDT
[#30]
Wanted to have a soda later....
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Posted: 6/18/2007 2:28:18 AM EDT
[#31]
Speciality Sports in Colorado Springs does have a Bushmaster Bar 10 on the wall.
It uses FAL mags. $1700-1800. |
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Posted: 6/20/2007 7:00:03 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote from RRA as of 19 June 07 on .308 production:
Production and shipping has, indeed, commenced onthe RRA LAR-6.8s. .458s started a couple weeks ago, and .308s are finally going to start very shortly. Steve/RRA |
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