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Posted: 10/28/2004 6:38:52 PM EDT
[#1]
They must not teach spelling when someone gets a "mater" degree.
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Posted: 10/28/2004 6:43:34 PM EDT
[#2]
No shit! I need a QC Tech to review my work! 
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Posted: 10/28/2004 6:46:28 PM EDT
[#3]
Yeah, I have a REAL engineering degree. Almost two. Long story. 
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Posted: 10/28/2004 6:53:04 PM EDT
[#4]
Don't get me started on that. 
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Posted: 10/28/2004 6:56:48 PM EDT
[#5]
HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!|
BUSHMASTER (most basic) will kick the crap out of an armalite basic model; such as in all mil-spec parts, chromelined bbl, a FH, etc are all standard on a bushy h/w, w/ the proper upgrades, the armalite and bushy are on par w/ each other |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 6:57:07 PM EDT
[#6]
Yawn..........Get over YOURSELF qcmgr. What is this, the 80th time we've had to here about your world class credentials as a qcmgr? John Doe can have the very best QC system(s) in the world, but what matters is what comes out the door to the end-user. To a customer, that is the bottom line. YMMV G-CODE: Armalite, Colt and Bushmaster user/owner. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 7:24:59 PM EDT
[#7]
Yea, G-Code, you are probably right, but if some kid wants to play the QC game, I will give it a go. I do not post about tactical stuff. We have people who do that very well. CAMPYBOB speaks for AK-47's STLRN speaks for the Marines, SGTAR speaks for small dolls and I know quality. Do you know Quality? By the way, did I tell you I have a Master Degree in Quality I am also an ASQ, CQA. I am also certified in Design for Six Sigma, Lean MFG and working as an Adjunct Professor of Quality. Did I Huh?!?!? CJan_NH questioned my ability to speak with authority. I was just reviewing my credentials. You may find me tiresome, but I cannot help that. CJan_NH made a claim concerning ArmaLite he cannot back up.
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Posted: 10/28/2004 7:25:11 PM EDT
[#8]
If in doubt, just do what I did.
I have a Armalite lower w/a BM upper. I like it just fine. I think the quality is about equal. 
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Posted: 10/28/2004 7:36:02 PM EDT
[#9]
Bushmaster and Colt build significantly more ARs for civilian sales than any other maker
this quantity sets a price point that smaller makers have to meet AR 15 TYPE RIFLES MANUFACTURED - YEAR 2000 # of Rifles Manufacturer 39,932 BUSHMASTER FIREARMS, INC. 29,950 COLT'S MANUFACTURING CO. 8,475 ARMALITE, INC. 5,869 DPMS ARMS, INC. 3,910 OLYMPIC ARMS, INC. 2,964 PWA, INC. 2,614 PROFESSIONAL ORDNANCE, INC. 967 HESSE, LTD. 191 ROCK RIVER ARMS, INC. 6 ALLAN P. ZITTA 94,878 TOTAL AR 15 TYPE RIFLES MANUFACTURED - YEAR 1999 # of Rifles Manufacturer 64,506 BUSHMASTER FIREARMS, INC. 29,143 COLT'S MANUFACTURING CO. 8,018 ARMALITE, INC. 7,456 OLYMPIC ARMS, INC. 6,903 DPMS ARMS, INC. 1,756 PROFESSIONAL ORDNANCE, INC. 996 KNIGHTS MANUFACTURING CO. 606 HESSE, LTD. 330 ROCK RIVER ARMS, INC. 110 WILSON COMBAT 87 JP ENTERPRISES, INC 26 ALLAN P. ZITTA 119,937 TOTAL |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 7:37:21 PM EDT
[#10]
No.
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Posted: 10/28/2004 7:39:54 PM EDT
[#11]
Armalite rifles are typically better finished and thats the only difference between the two.
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Posted: 10/28/2004 7:54:22 PM EDT
[#12]
You have any newer numbers? |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 8:35:13 PM EDT
[#13]
"4150"BIG fucking deal my ARMALITE is chrome line ANDchambered YOU cant tell the DIF. Also armalite does NOT say it's milspec ,they just say that they are CLOSER to the O.G rifle!!! PLESE TELL ME HOW CAN YOU TELL THE DIF IN "4150" TO THE "4140" BARRELS !!!  All that really matters is that IT"S chrome line and the chambered is chrome !!!! |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 8:42:53 PM EDT
[#14]
after 9-11
the atf stopped publishing the data the above y2000 report was published in 2002 |
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Posted: 10/29/2004 6:30:48 AM EDT
[#15]
What NO answer ?
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Posted: 10/29/2004 6:31:07 AM EDT
[#16]
There is another MAJOR difference that means a lot to me....I guess not to some others. ArmaLite's are backed by a LIFETIME WARRANTY... With the prices being within $50-100 of each other for similar models I would take a lifetime warrantied model over one with a 1 year warranty EVERY time. 4150 steel be damned. Though I ONLY have AR15 uppers with 4150 steel since I bought uppers after the fact. |
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Posted: 10/29/2004 6:34:33 AM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 10/29/2004 6:38:50 AM EDT
[#18]
This thread had gotten rediculous...............I'm unsubscribing from it.
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Posted: 10/29/2004 7:27:05 AM EDT
[#19]
Only full auto/ select fire/ burst are Mil Spec, if you want to get picky about the definition.
I like my Armalite. I like my Oly. Get in the fight or stay on the porch. |
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Posted: 10/29/2004 7:31:54 AM EDT
[#20]
Gosh, we might not be able to live without you -- please stay...... 
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Posted: 10/29/2004 8:25:26 AM EDT
[#21]
The own or have owned Colt, Armalite, and Bushmaster (ok, and an Oly, but it was an old SGW stop sign version, which was very good). I have not found the Colts to be any better than the other two.
My Armalites and Bushmasters are neck and neck as far as I am concerned they are equal except for one big difference: Only BMI makes the receiver ready for RDIAS - Everyone else (as far as I have been able to tell - and I went out and have actually checked myself to confirm Colt, Armalite, BMI, RRA, Oly, and even my LCW by LMT) requires some machining. I have not been able to check DPMS, Stag, Mega, Ameetec. Maybe dropping in a RDIAS (or SHTF TEOTWAWKI IWGMAAABOBCM, an improvised DIAS) isn't important to you, but to me the ability to drop in an auto sear in the future would be a plus everything else being equal. Of course, a lower that is two little holes from taking M16 fire control parts would even be better (but might get frowned on by the BATF)! Just my two cents. I will not bother to check Hesse. 
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Posted: 10/29/2004 6:48:27 PM EDT
[#22]
DPMS is RDIAS ready. |
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Posted: 10/30/2004 3:27:54 PM EDT
[#23]
LMAO
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Posted: 10/30/2004 3:42:23 PM EDT
[#24]
Why has this not been locked? "Stupid" fighting agaist "More stupid than I"
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Posted: 10/30/2004 3:50:15 PM EDT
[#25]
What about DSA???? Now im really confused on which AR to buy, Guess I'll just buy a real gun, AK or FAL
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Posted: 10/31/2004 10:12:27 AM EDT
[#26]
Still no ANSWER , about the 4150and the 4140 SO To all "mines better then yours because It's 4150 steel barrels" then SHUT THE FUCK UP !!! "WELL I HERD IT WAS BETTER" 
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Posted: 10/31/2004 10:32:20 AM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 10/31/2004 10:58:05 AM EDT
[#28]
Jivana108 ... Go to your local gunshop and look at firearms yourself, (assuming they sell the products you're looking for). Do your own homework .... don't bother with some of these people here, you're only going to receive biased replys, and smart alec remarks. To me, Armalite makes a good product, so does Colt and so does Bushmaster. I don't know what you mean by asking the question of Armalite "going the extra mile". I'm sure that most AR manufactorers do the best they can. If you want a "mil-spec" rifle, again, do your homework ... seems like few here agree of what and what isn't isn't mil-spec. On a personal note, I don't see your post inquiry as being offensive, givin the number of times you've posted and the character content of your post. However, it seems that some will not even give you the benefit of doubt, much to thier loss. Anyway, I'm sure you're a pretty smart person (male or female, I don't know), and you'll make a good decision either way.  |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 11:20:13 AM EDT
[#29]
4150 has a higher tensile stength over 4140. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 11:44:56 AM EDT
[#30]
Barely higher.... www.efunda.com/materials/alloys/alloy_steels/show_alloy.cfm?ID=AISI_4150&prop=all&Page_Title=AISI%204150 www.efunda.com/materials/alloys/alloy_steels/show_alloy.cfm?ID=AISI_4140&prop=all&Page_Title=AISI%204140 ...and what does it SPECIFICALLY mean in relation to the performance of an AR upper? |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 11:51:04 AM EDT
[#31]
4150: 729.5 Mpa 4140: 655.0 Mpa 11.4% difference. That is significant. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 11:53:51 AM EDT
[#32]
mmkay.....answer the question.... |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 11:55:54 AM EDT
[#33]
4140 normalized at 870 degress has a tensile strength of 1020.4 MPa SOOOOOOOOOOOO who uses what process and WHAT SPECIFICALLY does it do to add to the use of an AR upper??
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Posted: 10/31/2004 12:02:31 PM EDT
[#34]
Shivan, you know the answer to your own question.
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Posted: 10/31/2004 12:09:53 PM EDT
[#35]
Actually, I have NO IDEA who uses WHAT process to treat their steel. If you'll notice the links I gave you there are at least 6 processes to prepare the steel and each one varies greatly in it's characteristics. Anybody have the milspec for how the require the 4150 steel to be treated? Then does anyone know if the barrels of 4150 are done this way? I mean we now know that certain magnetic particle testing is only done randomly, despite markings to the contrary. I have no idea how Wilson processes their 4140 steel, or how Armalite does, or how DPMS processes their 4150. Do you? 
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Posted: 10/31/2004 12:12:12 PM EDT
[#36]
I know what the proper 4150 is supposed to offer.... |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 12:18:32 PM EDT
[#37]
I'm pretty sure that is OK to do. 
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Posted: 10/31/2004 12:22:24 PM EDT
[#38]
There are standards for properties that steels are to provide. The standard for 4150 has a higher tensile strength then 4140. You can do additional processes to the steel to modify the properties some. I don't have the M16/M4 barrel specs in front of me. But we weren't talking about the additional processes done to a steel to modify it's properties. We were talking about 4140 vs 4150. 4150 has a higher tensile strength. It's a stronger (albet more expensive) steel. Stainless steel barrels might even be better, but that is not the current milspec. The military wanted a barrel steel that had a little higher tensile strength. One reason could be that they were having problems with bent barrels (just a guess). I am not privy to military specs and am not going to spend time looking them up. I answered the question about 4140 vs 4150. 4150 has a higher tensile strength. It doesn't matter one way or the other to me. I have 4140, 4150 and stainless barrels in my safe. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 1:22:30 PM EDT
[#39]
Read the links, click the sublinks....no extra things added just a different temp finishing can yield a higher tensile for 4140 vs. 4150. Who uses what? How are Armalite 4140 barrels finished? 870 degree normalized, 815 degree annealed, oil quenched? How are DPMS 4150's finished? What is the milspec. This is not special stuff this is just a finishing process. You answered with marketing hype -- I presented a metallurgical site that states that certain 4140 can, IN FACT, possess higher tensile strength. Who uses what process? I agree that the base material 4150 is of higher tensile strength, please don't misunderstand my angle. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 3:12:24 PM EDT
[#40]
There is some interesting discussion among a lot of total bull crap here. Thanks to those of you who have shared some differences, facts, and opinions basd on experience here. CJan, QCMGR had some of what I thought was valuable, Shivan had some hard info on 4140/4150 differences. Things like that are great topics and points for discussion. Some of the other flame baits and tooly STFU crap is not helpful at all.
Things really need to change around here. Folks who participate can do it themselves when they post, or staff and mods will have to change it for you. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 3:34:38 PM EDT
[#41]
I did have a good point !!! 
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Posted: 10/31/2004 4:28:59 PM EDT
[#42]
4150 steel has more carbon. That is the main difference. Obviously, different manufacturers make their steels in different ways, but 4150 steel will usually have more carbon.
More carbon, in general, means steel is harder and has better tensile strength, but also is more brittle. |
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Posted: 10/31/2004 5:16:49 PM EDT
[#43]
NO
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Posted: 10/31/2004 6:17:22 PM EDT
[#44]
+1 |
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Posted: 11/1/2004 11:05:20 AM EDT
[#45]
Wow!! This is getting interesting!! Anyway , I work In law enforcement and always talk to other officers and instructors about police service rifles and around here they are always AR's. After everything I heard, and the one thing I always hear is Colt and D.P.M.S. are the best. The instructor continued by saying that Bushmaster NEVER EVER complete a tactical course without breaking downhould
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Posted: 11/1/2004 11:22:27 AM EDT
[#46]
Dam looks like my thread is still breathing fire. I had no idea it would get a response like this.... Thanks for all the input guys!
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