Who was it that said they can have my ASSAULT RIFLE when they pry it from my cold dead hand .There are too many bleeding heart liberals who oppose any type of firearms being owned by honest law abiding citizens , but its those firearms in the hands of our forefathers that won them the right to speak their mind . And its their narrow mindedness in the shadows of tragedies committed by children that our government uses to fuel the fires, but in truth those washington idiots benefit from a the taxes we pay for our firearms, ammo etc and I dont believe for a minute they would come and take my ASSAULT RIFLE unless there was no money in it for them .  

Ditto, why do you think you see so much discussion and obsessing about the gun laws on this board.  It’s because 99% of people are law abiding.  It kind of reminds me of the NO GUNS sign on the 5/3 bank where I live (A CCDW state).  I laugh every time I see it, I’m sure that sign has warded off many a hold up.  But every time I see it I remember to leave my pistol in the car.  Ask yourself are you really willing to die for your AR-15 because that is what would happen if you shot the SOB that came to get it.  I’m sure they will come much better armed than you.

You could always let them have your AR-15 and then buy an M16 on the tremendous black market that would spring up because no matter the law criminals will always have guns.  It’s kind of like the old saying “locks only keep the honest people out”.

Boy, this is a disappointing thread.  I can't believe 3/4 of you actually admit that you would wuss out and bury your ARs.  By doing that, you legitimize the BS laws and give tacit support to those who will continue to strip away your rights.  A lawyer friend of mine recently said something very appropriate to me:  "A right unexercised is not a right!"

I've got news for you folks:  If we get driven underground, we have already lost!

what guns?  

It's just a case of waiting until the right time, not wussing out IMHO.

I think most people would bury their AR's and wait for them to outlaw _all_ guns (not just AR's).  As history showed in '94, there is not enough support for "evil black gun" owners to actually make a difference.  That 11% or whatever that would go to war might take a few people with them, but ultimately they'll be looked on as criminals giving the liberals justification for what they did in banning AR's.

On the other hand, if everyone had their AR's buried underground and they outlawed all firearms, there would be a much larger group of support.  Either that, or people might even bury ALL their guns and wait until the government tried to enslave people, making them freedom fighters instead of criminals.  

It's all an issue of perception.  Does the rest of the nation perceive that you're fighting for freedom or that you're a criminal?  Sorry, but without the support of your fellow brothers, you're just a criminal fighting for what the liberals would call justification of taking your guns in the first place.

I think you are missing my point entirely.
We need to have them thinking about whether they ar ewilling to die to come take our guns.

With even minimal stategy and rudimentary tactics we could make "they" suffer a 3or4:1 casualty ratio. Now who the hell is going to want to take part in that.
Once again, it is all about unity.

I will stipulate here, though, that if you are surrounded in your own home then the prudent thing is to simply surrender and live to fight another day. There is no way you can win that. No way in hell. You would be playing right into their hands.
Taking the offensive, using the element of surprise to your advantage and guerilla tactics would be incredibly successful in MO.
Most LEOs are not going to do this. 90% of the military will not. That's my feeling at least. I know the overwhelming majority of the guys I served with would never do this. The guys in the "alphabet agencies" are another story, of course.

Listen, I am not advocating harming ANYONE. Nor do I want to see armed revolt. However, the point of the 2nd amendment in the first place is for us to be ready and for us to exert control over our own gov't if it should ever come to that. We as MEN in the United States of America have a DUTY. Not to many people take duty and honor to seriously anymore. Maybe this is why such beliefs have been so suppressed over the last 60yrs. It will make it far easier to herd up the sheep when it becomes necessary.

We should be prepared and we should be ready. In all likelihood it will never be necessary. If it is though our country will need us. Freedom and liberty will need us. These words are meaningless to some. To others they are a joke to be ridiculed as being synonomous with fat, beer drinking rednecks with cammies waving their guns around. We all know better.

Really, what is the likelihood that we would prevail should another civil war breakout?  The spooks have precision guided JDAMs and other technology now that enabled them to take over an entire country WHERE EVERYONE OWNED A FULLY AUTOMATIC WEAPON.  How the hell do you think we would be able to fight a government that wanted to 0wn us with small arms?

Excellent reply drjarhead.  I expected to get adolescent flaming for that one.  I guess one would have to weigh the circumstances at the time.  If there is an organized resistance movement and not just every man for him self it might play differently.  Our founding fathers were organized.

Don't compare me to that. Don't know about you but I think we would be more adept.

The recent war in Iraq was the most poorly fought campaign in the history of armed warfare. I could've set up a better strategy easily. Further the US has alot more cover than the deserts of Iraq.

A proper strategy would substanitally limit the use of combat air support, even artillery.

Don't give up so easily. We may someday need more tenacity and guile than that.

God help us if it ever does come to that.  I would like to think that half of law enforcement and the army, etc., would come and join the opposition, but then again look what happened in Australia.  A few people whined, and that was it.

That's what I would like to avoid...if at all possible.

Further, consider that the LEOs and military can only join the "opposition" if there is an "opposition".

Consider what could happen in this country if Hilary were to ever become president. In that case I think armed revolt may be more desirable. But what the hell, that's me.

I guess I'm the only one militant enough to want to fight back.

Either that or the only crazy enough to say so.[:D]

Nah you're not THAT crazy...ever filed a zero-income tax return?

I sold them all so I could buy more magazines.  [ROFL]

You're making my own argument for me!  We were fighting an oppressive regime in Iraq, where most people wanted to be free from that regime.  If every armed citizen in Iraq had fought back against us, there's no way we would have rolled through like we did.  The very fact that we took the cities in a relatively quick time indicates that the population was generally in favor of it!    Otherwise, it would have been bloodbath.  Laser guided munitions my ass; have you ever tried to kill a swarm of bees with an Uzi?

PS...I'm with ya, drjarhead!

[red]VOTE FROM THE ROOFTOPS![/red]

[LOL]

Where's the "poop myself" choice? Or at least "pee myself."

Alright!
We've got one fireteam and a guy who wants to mess his pants. LMAO. The future could get interesting.

The boy's meeting will take place shortly after the men's meeting is finished.

Interesting topic..
By the time "THEY" come to "TAKE" my AR or any other firearm it is my intention to have dealt with the political hacks instigating the situation in a harsh manner. I've spent considerable time finding the home addresses of the likely offenders. After that, should the impetus for confiscation continue, I hope that the agencies involved are prepared to step over several of their own dead to "pry the gun from my cold dead hands."
But that's just me. Others are free to piss the bed or hide under it.

I think this is correct.  It would just be ignored by most people... that is what happened in Kali.  Sure you get some law-worshippers but most would just quietly do what they wanted.  4473 is a bad thing , but guns trade hands so often off paper that they can't implement widespread confiscations based on 4473.  They will depend on compliance, which by and large won't happen.

I'd be pissed! They better come with Uncle sams Check book if they are to take them. I don't understand why you couldn't just say Private sale! My wife made me sell them all after we had kids. Some BS like that. But what happens to people when they do take them. The only way for them to take guns is with guns. I don't ever think it will come to this.

Shit, they cant find nuclear weapons in Iraq, hiding a few rifles shouldn't be to hard...

baghdad is allegedly safer than DC now according to rumsfeld...lets see here:

- all the civilians have full auto ak47's
- all law enforcement have full auto m16's

... and everyone's proportionately happy.

i want to address 2 hings here and i think people wont like either

1.we are all complying with various bans such as street sweeper shotguns and dumdum bullets and we all have never violated the assualt weapons ban. most of us will not fight if "they" come for the guns tommorrow because you would be the criminal fighting against the (percieved) legally passed law. this is clear from how little opposition californians gave when they actually confiscated an aks that wasnt registered in time after lockyer decided it was a banned weapon.they just banned further sale of the .50 and thats not an assault weapon under their definition so it became dangerous because it was too big a round.

all anyone is doing there is finding ways to make a cali compliant weapon.if there are so many people in cali willing to spring for a cali compliant weapon why cant they vote in some sensible people. i think its becasue the majority of legal gunowners are happy they allowed my bolt action theyre only going after the gun nuts that want those bad rifles and that will happen everywhere else too that the liberals can get their claws into.

2. iraq. almost everyone over there has a full auto weapon and they percieve themselves as being occupied by a foriegn power. we may have gone there to liberate them but they dont seem to be seeing it our way at the moment and we are not doing a good job of convincing them we did it for them since they keep trying to kill us every day.now we have gone from being liberaters to having to worry about which iraqi is a good iraqi and which is a saddamite so our boys have to look at each one as a threat.

for the average iraqi they certainly wont regard us as liberaters when we treat thewm with suspicion and confiscate their guns because a small element is unhapppy. rapidly more and more people will become unhappy and willing to defy the "occupiers".most of these guys deserved saddam as we are rapidly finding out.im going to predict one thing any legit goverment we give the iraqi people on the way out is doomed from the start because its people  will believe it is a puppet govt. kind of like wiemar in germany between the wars and many of the people who participated will be called collaboraters.

before you flame me for this just think if a communist country invaded us to free the workers how would we react? i dont think we would take to kindly to being liberated by anyone if we need liberation we can do it ourselves so leave now before we get angry and it would work the same way small amounts of people would resist first and others would see and start to resist as well.

the best thing to do is find saddam ,make him have a bad accident with lead poisoning, put some guy we dont like in charge of the goverment there and wish him luck. the worst thing we can do is stay forever

Did you write that reply with one hand?  What were you doing with the other?

2gun,
I agree with just about everything you said. I am trying to persuade people that it doesn't have to be that way, though.

As for the Middle East, we will end up nuking the shit out of them. Just a matter of time the way I see it. I cannot see them ever peacefully coexisting with the rest of the world and sooner or later they will get nukes. When they do they will use them, thus sealing their own fate. Fuck them.

By the way, for all those who said this. Hopeing to God isnt going to cut it.
GG

trace it from the serialz, huh?   But if you bought it used from someone you never saw before.....


And for caaaaaaash.   Yeahhh, that's right. Caaaaaaaash.

Sorry fat man  (oops, I'm lysdexic) the fella who used to live here owned some guns but he's in another state now.  Yeahhhhh, he moved, man.

[/Imbroglio mode]

You know I've been reading these posts for the past few days and I can honestly say that I'm disturbed by some the things that I'm reading on here. A lot of you seem ready to allow our country to go the way of England etc. etc. In England virtually all firearms ownership has been curtailed. Anything other than .22 caliber pistols is strictly illegal. Any semi-automatic rifle or shotgun is illegal. This is exactly what will happen here in the U.S. once the communists ooops I mean democrats start getting their teeth deeper into our 2nd Amendment rights! What is even worse about England is that now they have gone so far as to charge you with 1st degree murder even if you shoot someone in self defense. They are now even talking about banning toy Airsoft guns! This while they are putting up cameras everywhere to watch you and intrude on your privacy everytime that you step out on the street.

If we do not adopt some militant posture and be willing to back up our resolve with force of arms then we will be screwed! Once they have disarmed us and pulled our teeth then they have us at their mercy. They will then be free to piss on whatever freedom they want and we will have no means to oppose them. Do you honestly think that it can't happen here? Maybe not tomorrow or next year but can you honestly say that the situation will not be such 20 years from now, that such an eventuality might occur? Why take the risk?

The founding fathers considered only the freedom of speech to more important than the right to keep and bare arms. That is why it is the 2nd Amendment and not the 22nd Amendment to the constitution. To paraphrase George Washington, firearms in the hands of the people are their teeth to ensure the continuation of their freedom from oppression.

You pathetic bunch of cowards! I for one do not and will not live in such a society. We all have to die someday, why not die for the cause of freedom on our own soil, if God forbid it should ever come to that? Do you really want to grow old only to live in a nursing home with a cathitor (sp?) in your side and a ugly fat nurse wiping your ass? This after having to witness your parents, friends and family die before you?

I doubt the government or the populace would have the stomach for another Civil War. Hopefully all it will take is a token gesture of force or resolve to use force to bring about acceptable compromises. If not, then oh well far better to die on our own soil, while fighting for our own freedom than on some God forsaken piece of dirt 3000 miles away while fighting for someone elses freedom!

COWARDS!!

Okay!!
Buildin' that second fireteam now.

Catheter, BTW. And yes there will be some butt ugly psych cases wiping yer ass and smashing yer testicles in the process. Heheheh. Shi-itt!!

There is only one way we lose. Surrender...
That is the ONLY way we lose.

Remember the words I capitalized?

DUTY

HONOR

MEN

Without testosterone you'd all have been born women.

[marines]
Semper Fi.
Whatcha going to be faithful to?

yup.

Like frogs in a frying pan.

There are already people "detained" as we speak. And what are we doing about it? We, the "average citizen [don't] give a shit about [their] plight because it isn't affecting [us] or most of the population..."

guns huh? what guns? ar15.com website? i thought that was we.are15.com i was looking for underage girls. i wouldn't dare do anything as distasteful as owning a nasty rifle with a pistol handle. that's disgusting.


i think the best way to fight it is to get more of your friends into shooting.. if we all have guns then we will all vote to keep them or it will become too hard to take them away.. divide and conquer! go forth and convert new hobbyists.. this i command ye. :)

but seriously. we should start a monthly holiday where we get together our cool tools and show them off together to our friends who don't. just like crack, the first one's free.. then they'll be hooked. how about july 14th? first national buddy boom day?


and then we can try every 14th after that.


and yes i know that's bastille day. if it takes off the french will prolly hate it. :)

Son, if they're confiscating rifles, there isn't a check they could write that would be worth your rifle.



Just what do you people think you are going to accomplish by hiding your rifles and laying low?  So what if you "put one over on the man".  "The man" still wins!  You have just reinforced the perceived evil nature of an AR by disassociating yourself from it.  If something ever does get you pissed off enough to fight back, it will be too late.

No offence to anyone but California is a dam joke! None of the country should be worried about movie stars opinions and liberal hippies with smog congesting volkswagon bugs. They layed down easy because they're more concerned about same sex marriages than the constitution.If it wasn't for the beautiful weather they would have nothing! And thats my very bias opinion...

Wake up and smell the coffee guys!

They've done it in every country in the world, it'll happen here one day too, if we don't involve our kids in the sport.

1st step - Mandatory registration.

2nd step - Compare lists of hunting licenses with registration cards.

3rd step - knock on your door, and make you register them.

last step - ATF Agent knocks on door, and a soldier puts a M4 to your wifes head until you decide to hand them over.

Still ready to shoot it out on your doorstep?

Ummm...Yeah.





Maybe I don't understand the question...

That's OK.....I STILL have my M14!!!

In all likelyhood, I would just give them up.  I might take the bury one and deny it route, or give it to a friend to hold and let them search the house, but I don't think I would be doing any shooting or fighting.

I really don't understand why we have to transport to the final stage of gun confiscation right now.  I've seen the idea of a million gun owners march placed on many boards on many sites and it never seems to get much attention.  We don't have to do it armed!  If gun owners across america would stand together and all show how we feel about the Second Amendment, even in localities, we could make a difference.  The antis have been organizing people under false pretences or false statistics for years and it gets them much recognition.  It's one thing for the politicians to know there are 90 million gun owners in america.  It's another to see thousands (preferably tens-of-thousands) outside state capitals.  Even by doing this kind of thing locally; (With venison cooking on the BBQ's, those Machine BB gun booths where you shoot out the star, camo face painting for the kids, etc.); I'm not talking about a boring day of marching but something that would be fun for the sport as well as preserving our rights. we will get notoriety and make a difference on a national level.  I think we can even organize bands and things.  When I was in a band we'd play out anywhere we could in the summer for free for the obvious reasons.  All I'm saying is to stand together as gun owners and not just(so Called) assault weapons owners, or handgun owners, etc., with projects that appeal to all categories of gun owners we will have a much stronger lobby against the nazis, and with the strong numbers we could generate, if marketed right, make national notoriety for a force to reckon with!  Maybe a pipe-dream at the current moment, but I really don't see why it has to be.  Especially with all that's at risk!!!
just my .02

On a further note, things like this start at the local gun clubs, with family, etc.  It's can be as simple as setting a date, packing some lunch and bringing a hibachi down to the state green.  The antis have had so much more success with this sort of thing under the false pretence that it is worth it if it saves just one child's life.  Saving our Second Amendment will save more than just our AR15s, it will save all children from future enslavement from a tyrannical oppressor and that's why we all feel so strongly about it.  Again, just my .02

BTW, it's a sad state of affairs if agents of our government are holding automatic weapons at my wife's head.  That alone would be a bit tyrannical anyone else besides DrJARHEAD and I agree on this?  That would certainly not be the way to go about disarmament IMHO.  If acts such as those were committed on any kind of a grand scale there WOULD be another revolution due to the outrage that kind of act would cause. HMMM, Someone coming to your house with a GUN in their hand, pointing it at your wife or children and telling you to DISARM!?!?   Yeah,  Something about that doesn't sit well at all with me.  I must be overly sensitive... [rolleyes]

Unfortunately, given the demographics of our group, we all work and most are the primary supporters of their families. Not like we're liberal flower children picked up by party sponsored buses and hauled around, our numbers burgeoned by homeless drunks paid off with a bottle of booze and a carton of cigarettes. It would take a lot of time just to set this stuff up. I work to the point of having virtually no life most monsths.

That being said, I would go to my state capital with others if such could be organized. I give you my word on that right now. Trick is turning out sufficient numbers to have an impact.

I also think that this is just not the way most of us see our position within our system of government. For the most part we scorn those who adopt such techniques as liberals have done over the past 4 decades. Some of that will have to change.

Further, we are our own worst enemy. Unless the hunters and other recreational shooters see the anti-gun movement for what it really is, we are screwed. They ARE the frogs in the pot, telling those of us outside the pot, "come on in, water's fine."
Simple case of divide and conquer. I'll tell you the WWII generation has really screwed us. Hard to believe considering how much they sacrificed and how hard they fought to preserve freedom during the war. Afterwards they let the social fabric of this country deteriorate, families fall apart, let us be taxed into the ozone layer and told the rest of us it is for our benefit that our rights are gradually usurped and government control grows almost daily. I just don't understand WTF those guys were thinking. They fought to prevent someone else from doing this to us but think that it is okay for us to do it to ourselves.

FWIW, it almost seems easier to fight them straight up then beg the politicians and lawyers not to bend us over a damn table. Let's remember that it was really a small percentage of the population that fought and gained our freedom in the first place. We all "hope to God" that this isn't necessary but as previously stated that ain't gonna help us one bit. God helps them that help themselves.

[red]TESTOSTERONE IS A TERRIBLE THING TO WASTE[/red]

i think the shooting it out with the feds on your doorstep is dumb,it may sound honorable dying to fight a bad law but i think we have a long way to go.

we have more states that after sept 11 are leaning back in our direction and that is why the assault weapons ban is likely to die quietly now. many of the folks that voted for it then are gone or have no desire to vote for it again. the few that want a permanent ban in place are dinosaurs and anachronisms.certain states have bans but if trends follow the way of the shall issue laws we should see a turnaround in all but a few states(i live in one of them.

we cannot relax our vigilance though because all it takes is a few peaceful years and a stockton and the antis will be ready again  for the moment though the heat is probably off.dont expect a change in nfa laws though, trhey will probably never allow another citizen to legally register a new machinegun.

to the guy that asked what i was doing with my other hand when i wrote my last post... i was cleaning my ar and my post was longer than yours

I still say we should all move to one state and tell the gov to kiss our ass

That is like holing up in your house while the JBTs burn you out, starve you out or blast you out. It would make it too easy for them. Better that we occupy every niche of society, that we are spread throughout the countryside and that if we do ever have to use force of arms that it be widespread and in the smallest possible units practical to individual missions.

Besides, the last attempt a secession didn't go over to well.

Agreed. A more aggressive approach would be the way to do it if it ever came to that. Take the fight to them. Why would you ever want to let your enemy dictate the time, place and situation for aggression?
That being said, if any JBT has ever got a gun to someone in my family's head and I can drop 'em with one through the brainstem all I can say is there will be no hesitation.



Agreed again. There is reason for optimism. Should never have gotten to this in the first place, however. What happens the next time the libs are in power? And make sure you understand that this is all they are about--having powre to dictate their will over you. Not what is good for this nation.
This is all fairly hypothetical, of course. But it is definitely not outside the realm of possibility. What do you think will happen if Hilary ever becomes president? What if the dems take over congress at the same time? Political fortunes can change in a moment. A single event can set the course of history for years to come. Consider what effect the assassination of JFK had on this country's political future at the time.

We can win. We can win politcally if we get our shit together. We can win militarily if we have the balls, are united, and do not act like fools. Bottom line is being united.

Be prepared...and hope it is never necessary.

what's an AR15?[:D]

WHAT!?!  GUNS ARE LEGAL FOR CIVILIANS TO OWN?!?!?!

We should always think as though we could lose this right but as things stand now I think we are in better shape concerning our love of guns than we have been for a long time!  Not in every way but many!