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Link Posted: 11/30/2017 9:46:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/30/2017 9:54:01 PM EDT
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Quoted:

You want to know what happened? I'll tell you what happened.

First, it was sealed until someone leaked an old presentation on the CRA service rifles Facebook group, but you knew that.
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I have no idea what the CRA service rifles Facebook group is, but thanks for the info.

I agree that the URG-I seems like the logical progression to the M4/M16 weapon, and hope everyone would follow suite instead of trying to shoehorn in the 416 like so many seem to do(looking at you general scales and your 416=ak-47 reliability crap).
Link Posted: 12/1/2017 2:23:43 AM EDT
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Nice.
Link Posted: 12/1/2017 8:39:36 AM EDT
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Quoted:

Nice.
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+2
Link Posted: 12/1/2017 10:29:14 PM EDT
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I’m wanting to try on of those M600 IB lights
Link Posted: 12/1/2017 11:53:25 PM EDT
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Mbus pro offset sights? Is this legit?
Link Posted: 12/2/2017 12:41:03 AM EDT
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Quoted:
Mbus pro offset sights? Is this legit?
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Quoted:
Mbus pro offset sights? Is this legit?
It is now
Link Posted: 12/2/2017 12:42:32 AM EDT
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Quoted:
I have no idea what the CRA service rifles Facebook group is, but thanks for the info.

I agree that the URG-I seems like the logical progression to the M4/M16 weapon, and hope everyone would follow suite instead of trying to shoehorn in the 416 like so many seem to do(looking at you general scales and your 416=ak-47 reliability crap).
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Quoted:
Quoted:

You want to know what happened? I'll tell you what happened.

First, it was sealed until someone leaked an old presentation on the CRA service rifles Facebook group, but you knew that.
I have no idea what the CRA service rifles Facebook group is, but thanks for the info.

I agree that the URG-I seems like the logical progression to the M4/M16 weapon, and hope everyone would follow suite instead of trying to shoehorn in the 416 like so many seem to do(looking at you general scales and your 416=ak-47 reliability crap).
The CRA group is a place you go to find new ways to go broke cloning
Link Posted: 12/2/2017 8:21:05 AM EDT
Does anyone know if SOCOM has looked into the new Surefire Long Stroke Bolt Carrier?

http://www.defensereview.com/surefire-optimized-bolt-carrier-long-stroke-obc-ls-drop-in-bcg-and-h7s-buffer-system-for-better-weapon-control-reliability-and-durability-best-tactical-ar-15m4m4a1-carbineshort-barreled-rifle/

It's a M4 upgrade designed by Jim Sullivan, and it cuts full auto from 850-950rpm to a much more controllable 550-600rpm unsuppressed, 750rpm suppressed.

This would be the perfect compliment to the SF Warcomp and the Geissele High Speed Selector. It would create a truly effective and controllable FA assault rifle.
Link Posted: 12/2/2017 12:29:49 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Does anyone know if SOCOM has looked into the new Surefire Long Stroke Bolt Carrier?

http://www.defensereview.com/surefire-optimized-bolt-carrier-long-stroke-obc-ls-drop-in-bcg-and-h7s-buffer-system-for-better-weapon-control-reliability-and-durability-best-tactical-ar-15m4m4a1-carbineshort-barreled-rifle/

It's a M4 upgrade designed by Jim Sullivan, and it cuts full auto from 850-950rpm to a much more controllable 550-600rpm unsuppressed, 750rpm suppressed.

This would be the perfect compliment to the SF Warcomp and the Geissele High Speed Selector. It would create a truly effective and controllable FA assault rifle.
View Quote
Nope and its just about the same as a FERFRANS which has been out for about 15 years now

I tried to introduce FERFRANS to SF (with No luck)
The rate reducer works super well, ran it downrange 2014/15
in video can control full auto in double taps 6 shots only 3 trigger pulls
FERFRANS full Auto 2x2x2 drill
Now with Surefire being a giant company compared to FERFRANS
and with a ton of already military contracts. Maybe their bolt carrier will get some traction with the MIL.

Link Posted: 12/2/2017 9:25:34 PM EDT
Geissele’s latest Instagram post calls the MK16 SOCOM BKIII rail a thing.
Link Posted: 12/2/2017 9:33:47 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Geissele’s latest Instagram post calls the MK16 SOCOM BKIII rail a thing.
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Saw that. Pretty nifty.
Link Posted: 12/3/2017 12:23:45 AM EDT
Anyone  else  notice  that  in  the  geissele  instagram  pic  that  the  mk16  rail  had  both  types  of  anti rotation  tabs  on  it?
Link Posted: 12/3/2017 12:29:15 AM EDT
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Quoted:
Anyone  else  notice  that  in  the  geissele  instagram  pic  that  the  mk16  rail  had  both  types  of  anti rotation  tabs  on  it?
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Yeah. That seems redundant.
Link Posted: 12/3/2017 12:45:17 AM EDT
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Quoted:
Anyone  else  notice  that  in  the  geissele  instagram  pic  that  the  mk16  rail  had  both  types  of  anti rotation  tabs  on  it?
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Link to pic?
Link Posted: 12/3/2017 1:01:21 AM EDT
....
Link Posted: 12/3/2017 8:01:25 PM EDT
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Damn I need one of those, in the 9.5” flavor.
Link Posted: 12/4/2017 3:49:36 AM EDT
I would love to see the DD barrel. If it's a new contour.
Link Posted: 12/4/2017 5:16:58 AM EDT
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Quoted:
Nope and its just about the same as a FERFRANS which has been out for about 15 years now

I tried to introduce FERFRANS to SF (with No luck)
The rate reducer works super well, ran it downrange 2014/15
in video can control full auto in double taps 6 shots only 3 trigger pulls
FERFRANS full Auto 2x2x2 drill
Now with Surefire being a giant company compared to FERFRANS
and with a ton of already military contracts. Maybe their bolt carrier will get some traction with the MIL.

https://i.imgur.com/a00VTNv.jpg
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Does anyone know if SOCOM has looked into the new Surefire Long Stroke Bolt Carrier?

http://www.defensereview.com/surefire-optimized-bolt-carrier-long-stroke-obc-ls-drop-in-bcg-and-h7s-buffer-system-for-better-weapon-control-reliability-and-durability-best-tactical-ar-15m4m4a1-carbineshort-barreled-rifle/

It's a M4 upgrade designed by Jim Sullivan, and it cuts full auto from 850-950rpm to a much more controllable 550-600rpm unsuppressed, 750rpm suppressed.

This would be the perfect compliment to the SF Warcomp and the Geissele High Speed Selector. It would create a truly effective and controllable FA assault rifle.
Nope and its just about the same as a FERFRANS which has been out for about 15 years now

I tried to introduce FERFRANS to SF (with No luck)
The rate reducer works super well, ran it downrange 2014/15
in video can control full auto in double taps 6 shots only 3 trigger pulls
FERFRANS full Auto 2x2x2 drill
Now with Surefire being a giant company compared to FERFRANS
and with a ton of already military contracts. Maybe their bolt carrier will get some traction with the MIL.

https://i.imgur.com/a00VTNv.jpg
The FERGRANS is a great looking system, it's amazing that never caught on, or any of the other rate reducing drop in systems like the MGI Buffer. Really hoping SF has enough clout to get a reduced RPM system into the M4 - it's pretty much the last piece of the puzzle for the platform after these Block III upgrades are implimented (other then perhaps self lubricating coatings or advanced barrel steel.)

Speaking of Buffers, are you the same Jeff Gurwitch who wrote this article on Hydraulic Buffers?
http://www.defensereview.com/hydraulic-recoil-buffers-for-the-tactical-ar-15m4m4a1-carbinesbr-friend-of-foe-from-the-enidine-recoil-buffer-to-the-kynshot-recoil-damper-and-crosshair-buffers/

And if so, are you still using them, and if so, how has the Kynshot held up? I've been on a bit of a buffer research binge lately.
Link Posted: 12/4/2017 5:26:03 AM EDT
I still think that the LMT enhanced bolt carrier is still a better option than these reciprocating weight carriers. Longer cam track and extra vent holes are extracting under less pressure which actually aids reliability. These seem to just slow cyclic rate, but it seems to unlock at the same time as a regular M4.
Link Posted: 12/4/2017 7:14:35 AM EDT
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Quoted:
I still think that the LMT enhanced bolt carrier is still a better option than these reciprocating weight carriers. Longer cam track and extra vent holes are extracting under less pressure which actually aids reliability. These seem to just slow cyclic rate, but it seems to unlock at the same time as a regular M4.
View Quote
Isn't most of the benefits of the LMT from the enhanced bolt itself, not the carrier?

"LMT's .223/5.56 enhanced bolts have a more resilient coating and stronger heat treat, as well as the cartridge case being fully supported by the bolt face. The modified cam path allows for a greater dwell time, and superior extraction. The dual extractor springs help provide a more reliable extraction. Extraction is also greatly improved based on the fact that more of the extractor claw engages the rim of the case. The metal used to create the bolt is also extremely tough and a great improvement over carpenter 158 steel."

https://www.strongsidetactical.com/lmt-enhanced-bolt-assembly-5-56-223/

In terms of reduced cyclic rate, that's a huge deal - and that's the opinion of James Sullivan, one of the chief designers of the AR. Reducing the cyclic rate a) substantially improves controllability in full auto (which is 1/2 the purpose of having a 5.56 assault rifle) and b) improves reliability by giving the magazine more time to raise the cartridge into position.

The entire video is worth watching, but this shows the huge increase in controllability with the reduced ROF system used in the SF bolt carrier designed by Sullivan:
https://youtu.be/gOUKXIrDE0I?t=10m26s
Link Posted: 12/4/2017 11:27:54 AM EDT
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Quoted:

The FERGRANS is a great looking system, it's amazing that never caught on, or any of the other rate reducing drop in systems like the MGI Buffer. Really hoping SF has enough clout to get a reduced RPM system into the M4 - it's pretty much the last piece of the puzzle for the platform after these Block III upgrades are implimented (other then perhaps self lubricating coatings or advanced barrel steel.)

Speaking of Buffers, are you the same Jeff Gurwitch who wrote this article on Hydraulic Buffers?
http://www.defensereview.com/hydraulic-recoil-buffers-for-the-tactical-ar-15m4m4a1-carbinesbr-friend-of-foe-from-the-enidine-recoil-buffer-to-the-kynshot-recoil-damper-and-crosshair-buffers/

And if so, are you still using them, and if so, how has the Kynshot held up? I've been on a bit of a buffer research binge lately.
View Quote
Yes I am. And Kynshot buffers holding up well.
One teammate ran one downrange no issues.
I also have Crosshair buffers that are holding up well
If you read my piece I had Crosshair buffer fail early on, they redesigned it  
and the ones I have now still run after more than a year.
If you are going to take the plunge buy theKynshot buffer.
I have complete trust in it.
...........Plus the AR10 buffer is also holding up
Link Posted: 12/4/2017 4:53:45 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Isn't most of the benefits of the LMT from the enhanced bolt itself, not the carrier?

"LMT's .223/5.56 enhanced bolts have a more resilient coating and stronger heat treat, as well as the cartridge case being fully supported by the bolt face. The modified cam path allows for a greater dwell time, and superior extraction. The dual extractor springs help provide a more reliable extraction. Extraction is also greatly improved based on the fact that more of the extractor claw engages the rim of the case. The metal used to create the bolt is also extremely tough and a great improvement over carpenter 158 steel."

https://www.strongsidetactical.com/lmt-enhanced-bolt-assembly-5-56-223/

In terms of reduced cyclic rate, that's a huge deal - and that's the opinion of James Sullivan, one of the chief designers of the AR. Reducing the cyclic rate a) substantially improves controllability in full auto (which is 1/2 the purpose of having a 5.56 assault rifle) and b) improves reliability by giving the magazine more time to raise the cartridge into position.

The entire video is worth watching, but this shows the huge increase in controllability with the reduced ROF system used in the SF bolt carrier designed by Sullivan:
https://youtu.be/gOUKXIrDE0I?t=10m26s
View Quote
The bolt is important too, but I think the carrier is more important. The longer cam track and vent holes are doing more to ease pressure on the extractor than anything the bolt is doing. The bolt is great, yes, but it's beholden to when the gun unlocks which is dictated by the cam track.
Link Posted: 12/5/2017 7:51:41 AM EDT
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What barrel would they be running under that rail?  Is that just the Colt Socom or what?  Anyone know more about that gun!
Link Posted: 12/5/2017 4:47:09 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Yes I am. And Kynshot buffers holding up well.
One teammate ran one downrange no issues.
I also have Crosshair buffers that are holding up well
If you read my piece I had Crosshair buffer fail early on, they redesigned it  
and the ones I have now still run after more than a year.
If you are going to take the plunge buy theKynshot buffer.
I have complete trust in it.
...........Plus the AR10 buffer is also holding up
View Quote
Thanks man, I plan on either snagging the Kynshot, or the new DPM buffer:
https://dpmsystems.us/products/ar-15-223-5-56-calibre-rifles-mil-spec-standard-buffer-tube

The DPM one looks even more advanced, it has a two stage delay that might be more effective at both reducing recoil and rate of fire:
https://youtu.be/uNOCSG9aGFo?t=37s
Link Posted: 12/5/2017 5:00:20 PM EDT
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Midwest industries mount?
Link Posted: 12/5/2017 6:13:47 PM EDT
Anybody know why they didn't go with the Hodge rail?
Link Posted: 12/5/2017 6:40:24 PM EDT
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Quoted:

Thanks man, I plan on either snagging the Kynshot, or the new DPM buffer:
https://dpmsystems.us/products/ar-15-223-5-56-calibre-rifles-mil-spec-standard-buffer-tube

The DPM one looks even more advanced, it has a two stage delay that might be more effective at both reducing recoil and rate of fire:
https://youtu.be/uNOCSG9aGFo?t=37s
View Quote
Kynshot
How proven is DPM?
Link Posted: 12/5/2017 8:12:49 PM EDT
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Quoted:

Kynshot
How proven is DPM?
View Quote
I think its brand new, there's not anything on the DPM out there on the google. I know they make a lot of pistol recoil systems that are well regarded through.

I'll probably end up snagging both for science.
Link Posted: 12/17/2017 2:02:18 AM EDT
good. its about time they updated the  military guns to catch up to civ tech!
Link Posted: 12/17/2017 6:22:32 PM EDT
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Quoted:

Nope and its just about the same as a FERFRANS which has been out for about 15 years now

I tried to introduce FERFRANS to SF (with No luck)
The rate reducer works super well, ran it downrange 2014/15
in video can control full auto in double taps 6 shots only 3 trigger pulls
FERFRANS full Auto 2x2x2 drill
Now with Surefire being a giant company compared to FERFRANS
and with a ton of already military contracts. Maybe their bolt carrier will get some traction with the MIL.

https://i.imgur.com/a00VTNv.jpg
View Quote
@stukas87 Can I ask what rear sight that is?  Something is telling me MI, but I'm not sure......
Link Posted: 12/25/2017 3:06:42 PM EDT
CD posted in the CQBR thread a factory 10.3" theyre getting from FN, not a cut down 14.5.  So does that mean its looking good for 14.5 midlength? Since theres no need to chop barrels down now? Also will the midlength be gov or socom profile?

https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Mk-18-CQBR/118-641240/?page=936#i7572561
Link Posted: 12/26/2017 1:20:55 AM EDT
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Quoted:
CD posted in the CQBR thread a factory 10.3" theyre getting from FN, not a cut down 14.5.  So does that mean its looking good for 14.5 midlength? Since theres no need to chop barrels down now? Also will the midlength be gov or socom profile?

https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Mk-18-CQBR/118-641240/?page=936#i7572561
View Quote
If they are going FN for the barrels, it would make a lot of sense to just go with a 14.5" FN Tactical II upper, which is FN's Midlength M-LOK derived from their work with Hodge. A turn key factory offering seems simpler and more cost effective then an amalgam of different parts.

http://soldiersystems.net/2017/01/30/shot-show-17-fn-16-tactical-ii-pro-series/

https://fnamerica.com/products/rifles/fn-15-tactical-ii/

This is an 11.5", but FN could obviously make a 10.3", as well as a 14.5"
Link Posted: 12/26/2017 10:21:24 AM EDT
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Quoted:

If they are going FN for the barrels, it would make a lot of sense to just go with a 14.5" FN Tactical II upper, which is FN's Midlength M-LOK derived from their work with Hodge. A turn key factory offering seems simpler and more cost effective then an amalgam of different parts.

http://soldiersystems.net/2017/01/30/shot-show-17-fn-16-tactical-ii-pro-series/

https://fnamerica.com/products/rifles/fn-15-tactical-ii/

This is an 11.5", but FN could obviously make a 10.3", as well as a 14.5"
http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/img_9265.jpg
View Quote
I would be shocked if they didnt go with a geissele rail.
Link Posted: 12/26/2017 10:24:22 PM EDT
I thought it was confirmed that they're using the geissele mk16 rail.
Link Posted: 12/26/2017 10:30:53 PM EDT
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Quoted:
I thought it was confirmed that their using the geissele mk16 rail.
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This is confirmed. It is the new standard.

Also, the barrel is 'GI' type profile. I can see a heavier variant in the future.

S/F
Link Posted: 12/27/2017 12:40:53 AM EDT
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Quoted:

This is confirmed. It is the new standard.

Also, the barrel is 'GI' type profile. I can see a heavier variant in the future.

S/F
View Quote
Won't they run into 2000 era issues again that led to the SOCOM profile?
Link Posted: 12/27/2017 8:36:50 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Won't they run into 2000 era issues again that led to the SOCOM profile?
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Quoted:
Quoted:

This is confirmed. It is the new standard.

Also, the barrel is 'GI' type profile. I can see a heavier variant in the future.

S/F
Won't they run into 2000 era issues again that led to the SOCOM profile?
Maybe, hence why I said the above.

S/F
Link Posted: 12/27/2017 8:44:57 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Maybe, hence why I said the above.

S/F
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

This is confirmed. It is the new standard.

Also, the barrel is 'GI' type profile. I can see a heavier variant in the future.

S/F
Won't they run into 2000 era issues again that led to the SOCOM profile?
Maybe, hence why I said the above.

S/F
You'd think that without the M203A1 and M203A2  compatible requirement they'd pick a not stupid barrel profile. I know there's a bunch of "Govt" COTS barrels but it wouldn't be that hard to get a barrel that's, you know, thicker near the chamber and thinner near the muzzle. Even better if it wasn't overly heavy.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 12/29/2017 12:05:34 AM EDT
There is unlikely to ever be a "SOPMOD Block III," as for all intents and purposes, "SOPMOD" is dead.

Visual Augmentations Systems [and] Weapons Accessories (VASWA) are no longer being updated as a "suite" or "package," rather individual components are being upgraded as needed.

Different units and organizations regularly try and even request/order specialized parts and components, whether to fulfill operational needs, or to conduct test and evaluation, this does not necessarily mean that they will ever be adopted, ever be granted a "program" status and/or designation within the organization, branch, SOCOM, etc.

Generally speaking, the bigger the organization looking into an upgrade and the bigger the program, the more likely that they will introduce changes--this is how things like the EOTech 551/552 become the EOTech 553 (SU-231), the KAC M4 FF RAS becomes the DD RIS II, etc.

~Augee
Link Posted: 1/6/2018 1:31:15 AM EDT
So URG-I (Block III) uppers are going to be available direct from Geissele starting in March. 14.5” midlegth DD barrels.  I’m excited, I’m not cloner but as an upper It has everything I want.
Link Posted: 1/6/2018 1:52:11 AM EDT
Brownell's will have them exclusively at least at first and in two configurations. $1,379 for the complete upper with p&w surefire muzzle device. $979 without BCG, charging handle and muzzle device.
Link Posted: 1/6/2018 4:03:02 AM EDT
Is there any idea why DD was chosen for the barrel over FN chf?
Link Posted: 1/6/2018 4:06:08 AM EDT
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Quoted:
Is there any idea why DD was chosen for the barrel over FN chf?
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Probably price. Procurement usually boils down to who can make us this part, in these specs, for the lowest cost.
ETA but then again, SOCOM funding isn't AS limited, so it could be another (maybe performance) factor from testing
Link Posted: 1/6/2018 4:50:13 AM EDT
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Quoted:

It also makes the Mk18 harder to manage.

Instead of cutting down M4A1 barrels they'll have to find a supplier to produce carbine barrels, they will have to keep 2 gas blocks, 2 different gas tubes, etc.
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Aren’t they buying DD barrels now for the block 2? Or rather, uppers?
Link Posted: 1/6/2018 4:51:11 AM EDT
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Quoted:
One can only hope, but with that said, I believe Colt did an actual study on the pros/cons of Carbine vs Mid-length gas systems and found there were no quality gains in going to a Mid-length setup.  But I would be interested to see how, if any, much longer parts last on a 3 position rifle with a Mid-length gas system as opposed to carbine.
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Since the benefits of a 20” rifle and it’s gas system are well known the mid length in theory splits the difference.
Link Posted: 1/6/2018 6:34:35 AM EDT
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Quoted:

Aren’t they buying DD barrels now for the block 2? Or rather, uppers?
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Only barrels I ever received for repair were Colt or FN.  Never seen a DD barrel yet, might just change in the future.

CD
Link Posted: 1/6/2018 9:33:13 AM EDT
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Quoted:
Probably price. Procurement usually boils down to who can make us this part, in these specs, for the lowest cost.
ETA but then again, SOCOM funding isn't AS limited, so it could be another (maybe performance) factor from testing
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Is there any idea why DD was chosen for the barrel over FN chf?
Probably price. Procurement usually boils down to who can make us this part, in these specs, for the lowest cost.
ETA but then again, SOCOM funding isn't AS limited, so it could be another (maybe performance) factor from testing
It’s probably none of that.
Link Posted: 1/6/2018 4:49:45 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Since the benefits of a 20” rifle and it’s gas system are well known the mid length in theory splits the difference.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
One can only hope, but with that said, I believe Colt did an actual study on the pros/cons of Carbine vs Mid-length gas systems and found there were no quality gains in going to a Mid-length setup.  But I would be interested to see how, if any, much longer parts last on a 3 position rifle with a Mid-length gas system as opposed to carbine.
Since the benefits of a 20” rifle and it’s gas system are well known the mid length in theory splits the difference.
I believe Mark Westrom`s ArmaLite  studied the benefits of a midlength gas system in detail. ArmaLite offered the first production midlength uppers and carbines IIRC.
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