WHAT WE WILL SEE AT THE SHOT SHOW ...... - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - WHAT WE WILL SEE AT THE SHOT SHOW ...... (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 2/9/2006 5:27:28 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
The piston design in the HK416, G36, and XM8 is not similar in any way to the AR18, although the design of the bolt and bolt carrier is very, very similar - probably thanks to Hks work with the (in)famous British bullpup.

To be honest, LWRCs piston design is very similar to the AR18 piston.

Yes, like I said, HK came up with a pretty clever design during the development... I have both of the above mentioned systems and posted pictures of the AR18 system on here a couple of months ago to show how the LW is very much like the AR18.

Posted: 2/9/2006 5:30:58 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So now Colt is following the trend. I wonder if they'll have to pay royalties.

Pay royalties for what?
Sorry to get off topic, but it's common belief by many that HK was the first to introduce a gas piston conversion. There's even a topic about HK sueing Colt over on HKPro.

Colt's gas piston AR goes back to the 60s and there where numerous other gas piston ARs around prior to the HK -- HK has a patent on the piston design in relation as to how it vents and is essentially self regulating, this patent actually comes from the G36 which is an adaptation of the AR18.

Gas pistons are not new, Colt and others nave had them around since before many of the newest crop where doing anything with firearms...

Yep. I haven't seen any pictures of the early Colt systems, but I've seen a few pictures of the Rhino system which dates pretty far back.

However, I don't know how many times I had to explain that the POF (not including marketing) and LW piston systems were not clones of the HK 416. Many still post as though they never acknowledged my reply too.

Anyways, has anyone been to the HK booth? I heard a rumor of individual officer purchases which would make upper conversions obtainable.

Posted: 2/9/2006 6:03:45 PM EDT

[#3]

Is anyone scared to death of the "needs no cleaning" mantra I'm hearing from the piston crowd?

Posted: 2/10/2006 2:31:29 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Is anyone scared to death of the "needs no cleaning" mantra I'm hearing from the piston crowd?

I hear you brother!!

Mike

Posted: 2/10/2006 3:55:01 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Anyways, has anyone been to the HK booth? I heard a rumor of individual officer purchases which would make upper conversions obtainable.

There was a post in the Ar15 forum with pics of the HK booth. They had their usual plastic array of stuff including the XM8. I dont think they have anything new out.

Posted: 2/11/2006 4:48:13 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Is anyone scared to death of the "needs LESS cleaning" mantra I'm hearing from the piston crowd?

There, fixed it for ya!

And yes, they DO require LESS cleaning.

Posted: 2/11/2006 6:08:22 AM EDT

[#7]

tag

Posted: 2/11/2006 8:04:40 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Is anyone scared to death of the "needs LESS cleaning" mantra I'm hearing from the piston crowd?

There, fixed it for ya!

And yes, they DO require LESS cleaning.

Mine would run just fine if I didn't clean it, but I still want to take care of the barrel so I wipe down the bolt face and swab the barrel after I shoot it. I brush the carbon off of the hanguard/FSB to just to keep it looking spiffy.

Trust me, it requires WAY less cleaning

.

Shoot more, Clean less.

Posted: 2/11/2006 10:26:09 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Yep. I haven't seen any pictures of the early Colt systems, but I've seen a few pictures of the Rhino system which dates pretty far back.

3rd one down.

Described simply as an experimental gas system by Colt. I think it was listed as built back in the late 60's or early 70's

Unfortunately, Rock Island Arsenal's museum didn't have one with the handguards off.

WIZZO

Posted: 2/11/2006 2:34:32 PM EDT

[#10]

There are pictures of Colt's gas piston AR-15 in the SHOT Show Gallery, found in the Amory (armory.ar15.com/generalContent.aspx?cfeed=armory.ar15.com/content/features/SHOT/2006/1.html):

The disassembled gas-piston mechanism; expected to be about $200 more than a standard upper.

Here is the bottom view of the Colt gas-piston AR with easily removable lower rail; press detent, and slide forward.

Hope this helps.

Justin

Posted: 2/11/2006 4:35:28 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So now Colt is following the trend. I wonder if they'll have to pay royalties.

Pay royalties for what?
Sorry to get off topic, but it's common belief by many that HK was the first to introduce a gas piston conversion. There's even a topic about HK sueing Colt over on HKPro.

Colt's gas piston AR goes back to the 60s and there where numerous other gas piston ARs around prior to the HK -- HK has a patent on the piston design in relation as to how it vents and is essentially self regulating, this patent actually comes from the G36 which is an adaptation of the AR18. The Colt 703 (with a gas piston) was submitted as the one of the first designes for the M16A2.

There have been several other gas piston designs over the last few decades: A patent for a gas piston conversion to the AR was issued in Mr. Langendorfer many years ago... Other people have tested the idea, including KAC, HK and others, hell even I have a piston upper design that is about 20 years old now.

Push come to shove, the T65 would have to be the oldest design that saw large scale production and is still around... and the improved version is out as of last year.

Gas pistons are not new, Colt and others nave had them around since before many of the newest crop where doing anything with firearms... The bottom line on the new Colt rifle is that it is a solid monolithic upper, the lower section of the handguard removes to mount a 203, it does not use standard barrels as the barrel extension is different, and it uses a FAL type piston that is removed out of the front after rotating and removing a forward plug -- the plug is held in by a teeny, tiny little "take down pin" that is pretty cool. However it has nothing to do with LW as some rumored on hear a few days ago... in fact, it is closer to the POF system than anything.

GZ, good you see you are still around here. Hrm, doesn't use a standard barrel eh? Was that by necessity of the design?

Do you like the LW guns?

Posted: 2/11/2006 5:18:00 PM EDT

[#12]

If Colt ever releases the LE1020 alot of other gas piston companies are going to be in trouble.

Posted: 2/11/2006 5:31:21 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
If Colt ever releases the LE1020 alot of other gas piston companies are going to be in trouble.

I couldn't agree more, especially only costing $200 extra. This would be the cheapest piston route by quite a bit if the $200 quote holds true.

I'm no kool aid drinker, but Colt could have a really big hit on their hands.

Posted: 2/11/2006 6:06:03 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:
If Colt ever releases the LE1020 alot of other gas piston companies are going to be in trouble.

I couldn't agree more, especially only costing $200 extra. This would be the cheapest piston route by quite a bit if the $200 quote holds true.

I'm no kool aid drinker, but Colt could have a really big hit on their hands.

As much as I don't like Colt, I would have to agree that a $1300~ish piston-driven pony would sell faster than lead nut protectors at the nuke plant.

WIZZO

Posted: 2/11/2006 7:56:34 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
8< -------- snip ------- 8<
GZ, good you see you are still around here. Hrm, doesn't use a standard barrel eh? Was that by necessity of the design?

Most likely a design thing yes... the common problem with threading for the barrel nut on a monolithic design, external threads are quite the trick as you can imagine! So, this uses internal threads and a different barrel extension and barrel nut, think of it as a collet lock sort of...

Posted: 2/11/2006 9:59:58 PM EDT

[#16]

Seen it all before from Colt. They tried to pawn a gas piston system off on the Gub'mnt but there really wasn't any interest then. Sell it to civies, you'd drum up interest. If not, screw you, Colt.

Posted: 2/12/2006 5:17:54 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Quoted:
If Colt ever releases the LE1020 alot of other gas piston companies are going to be in trouble.

I couldn't agree more, especially only costing $200 extra. This would be the cheapest piston route by quite a bit if the $200 quote holds true.

I'm no kool aid drinker, but Colt could have a really big hit on their hands.

Talon Arms expects it at $400.00 above the MSRP of the LE6920:

Quoted:

Look for a late summer release. No price is set yet, but early guesses will put it about $400 above MSRP of a 6920.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=435843&page=8

Posted: 2/12/2006 7:45:58 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Seen it all before from Colt. They tried to pawn a gas piston system off on the Gub'mnt but there really wasn't any interest then. Sell it to civies, you'd drum up interest. If not, screw you, Colt.

www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=77720

www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=77721

For comparison, here's a pic of the piston from the thread City cited. Courtesy of Talon Arms.

Posted: 2/12/2006 10:16:22 AM EDT

[#19]

The new system looks like the FAL type. The old system reminds me more of the FNC.

Posted: 2/12/2006 10:37:55 AM EDT

[#20]

As a totally satisfied user of the current gas impingement system, I can see little use for the op rod design. Just my 02, don't mean to tick anyone off.

Posted: 2/12/2006 8:00:20 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
As a totally satisfied user of the current gas impingement system, I can see little use for the op rod design. Just my 02, don't mean to tick anyone off.

Yes, but for every SATISFIED user like you, there is another, moderately satisfied user like myself who wants a change. Market forces.

Posted: 2/13/2006 2:54:45 PM EDT

[#22]

Ok, noob question here.........

Does the Colt gas pistion system have an adjustable gas hole like the DSA 308 I have?

Posted: 2/13/2006 11:41:22 PM EDT

[#23]

I hope they are smart and put out Commando length uppers.

Posted: 2/14/2006 2:06:05 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
I hope they are smart and put out Commando length uppers.

If I am not mistaken, the photo SMGLee offers is an 11.5" Commando upper.

Photo courtesy of SMGLee

along with the 14.5, and a 16"-er

Posted: 2/14/2006 6:53:00 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

3rd one down.
i45.photobucket.com/albums/f77/wizzokx/100_0129a.jpg

Described simply as an experimental gas system by Colt. I think it was listed as built back in the late 60's or early 70's

Unfortunately, Rock Island Arsenal's museum didn't have one with the handguards off.

WIZZO

While that is a Colt's M16A1, the gas system on that rifle was an experiment done by RIA/Winchester back in 1968. I do believe that particular set up is the earliest piston AR/M16.

Got any more RIA Museum pics? I see four Model 01 AR-15's on the rack to the left.

Posted: 2/14/2006 7:48:19 AM EDT

[#26]

And a Pimptastic one

WIZZO

EDIT: I have more, but with my workload at school, I haven't had the time to upload them.

Posted: 2/14/2006 8:20:33 AM EDT

[#27]

In my correspondence with the RIA Museum I missed out on the AR-15's, and I asked specifically about them. Now that I have the tag numbers I will be set. Many thanks.

Off topic, but looks like a T44E4 at the very bottom under the AR-15's.

Posted: 2/14/2006 10:54:17 AM EDT

[#28]

They had a couple M14's (and T44 and T48 prototypes as well)

WIZZO

Posted: 2/14/2006 11:11:30 AM EDT

[#29]

Hey, now I see a Johnson LMG peeking out on the left. Ah, nevermind, got this thread WAY off topic have I not? Thanks for sharing the pics, would be nice if you got all those pics hosted and started a new thread. I need to get up there, it is not that far away. Think someone did do a RIA thread a few years back, but I have been unable to find it. Ramble, ramble.......

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - WHAT WE WILL SEE AT THE SHOT SHOW ...... (Page 2 of 2)

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