These guys?



http://www.ktordnance.com/kto/products.php

They do take payment in gold, but apparently not bitcoin yet.

Anyone laid eyes on a ATF determination letter for these AR flats?

Wes

Does not exist, as stated before.

I've finally been able to find time to upload the build pics and get this typed up.  I mentioned that I ordered two of these kits and, in my mind at least, this was more of a "proof of concept" then a serious endeavor.  I will say that I have ZERO skills as a welder.  I happen to have a wire feed that I purchased for one task a couple years ago and it's sat in my shop since.  That said, I did get some scrap and practice a bit as well as dial in the machine.  I planned on spot welding due to my inexperience, the unpredictability of my machine, and the way all the pieces seemed to relate to each other.  I also bought a full face shield since my last project resulted in a nice sun burn on my face.  

I apologize in advance for any spelling and/or nomenclature mix-ups.

The kit ships USPS and the parts are in a sealed bag in the box.  I spent a little time cleaning up the grit and deburring some of the pieces.  Not knowing the tolerances I was hesitant to make them perfect.  As you can see from the way it ended up it is pretty rough.

I decided that I would omit the bolt catch, pivot/takedown pins.  I intended to fabricate a metal grip as a work-around to tapping for the mounting bolt and also a one-off buffer/butt stock assembly.  I based this decision on the difficulty of drilling and tapping materials, my skill level, and the lack of tooling in my shop.  It would also allow me to not get wrapped around the axel trying to account for all the tolerances.

The pictures here are also a mix of my two attempts at this.  The first a failure when the trigger housing plates were misaligned and the trigger would not function correctly.  I also burned through a couple key areas that would have rendered the receiver unusable.


There are no directions and next to zero information on the website or the internet on this.  The kit seems centered around the trigger guard so that's where I started.  Here is the trigger guard stacked, welded, and cleaned up.


Another view of the trigger guard.


Next up is the floor of the trigger housing.


Here is the trigger housing with the pieces for the back shelf and buffer portion.  There aren't many areas to weld some of the pieces without impacting the fit of the neighboring pieces.


I aligned the plates for the trigger housing sides with pins and by eye.  My first attempt did not line up correctly and while I was able to install the trigger, it did not function   The hammer would lock back but not release.  I suspect that there was not enough clearance under the arm of the trigger and the floor plate.  Disappointing but an expected outcome for a first attempt.


The other side of the trigger assembly.


Location of some of the weld points I chose.


Some interior spot welds near the back of the receiver.  You should note that there is a lot of wiggle room and this will require additional "padding" to keep the rear take down tab on the upper receiver from shifting.  There is also no real estate to install the buffer retaining pin  Not a big deal since I was going to construct a captured buffer by welding a small tab.


I intended to weld a steel tube as a buffer extension and also configure some sort of captured buffer & butt stock. The buffer attachment pieces were very close to 1.125 ID.  This very nearly matched to the steel tube I sourced from Amazon which had in ID of .995 (for all intents 1").  A little work with a dremel and the tube fit perfectly.  


Test fit.


Another view.


I lucked out and found a smaller steel tube 9Tractor Supply Company that was also a near perfect fit to the lower portion of the buffer attachment pieces.  I was working along the concept of creating an Ace skeleton stock look.  I don't recall the OD/ID of the tube but will list it later on.


Mock-up


On to the magazine well plates.  I must have stopped taking pictures at this point.  But this part was fairly smooth.  The Flat spot website had a note on test fitting a magazine prior to welding up.  I found an old magazine and used it as a guide, even leaving it in place while I welded to ensure nothing shifted.


Quick mock-up and photo-op.  I will need to determine the length of the buffer tube/butt stock and also weld it up.  I may opt to use the butt stock on my RRA PDS pistol but that is another project.  This still lacks the small shroud piece to protect the magazine release button.  I will end up drilling and installing the spring and detent for a workable safety.  The trigger (not installed in this picture) passes a function check, but I don't trust the tolerances and wouldn't recommend carrying in Condition 1.


Another view.  She is heavy.  The upper receiver is a polymer Bushmaster so I didn't have to worry about scratching an aluminum one.  The ugly weld above the mag release is really just a stiffening weld and needs to be cleaned up.

I had a lot of fun doing this.  Locating off the shelf components and attempting to keep actual fabrication to a minimum is a concept that I really like.  I got pulled away on business so won't be able to revisit this for a while.  But I'll post pics as it progresses.

It looks - retro, being a slab slide.  I was going to take a rifle tube & chop it to ACE buffer tube length, & glue it in place on the lower.  Then I found a blem Aero lower @ the gun show for $60 including tax, so the super glued flats are on hold for now.  Very nice work.  Instead of tapping the pistol grip screw hole, you might choose to just drill the safety detent hole, throw the safety & detent in, & glue the pistol grip on.  It could then be removed by a Dremel, albeit @ the destruction of the pistol grip.

I think the easiest solution to the PG issue is to just weld a stub of all-thread or a chopped bolt to the location

and then simply fasten the PG using a nut.

Given the potential for misalignment issues I'd even suggest using a smaller diameter fastener such as

#10 or #12 to give you a little leeway.

Good idea, I won't be able to work on it until next weekend.  I was going to fab something out of steel, this would be faster.

Nice job simply_green.
Do you have a link to the tube from amazon?

From Amazon Supply;

1-1/8" OD x 1" ID Steel Tube

The smaller tubing is 3/8 OD.  I saw that Home Depot also carries it.

simply_green, WOW, you started this by down playing your abilities, and the work that you have shown here is simply OUTSTANDING.

Can't wait to see the rest of this project thru to it's completion.


Keep Up the Good Work.

Chief

Great   -   Thanks

Please keep us updated on your progress

I wonder if it would be possible to construct a jig that uses the trigger pins / safety/ takedown pin holes to align the pieces?

That's my plan,  I'll use drill rod as the length will allow greater accuracy with alignment.  Unfortunately, I have too much on my plate now to get started on another project.  But I'm accumulating parts to be ready when time allows.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking of.

D-Rock43 did a build:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/648352_I_welded_together_a_steel_receiver_from_theflatspot_net__Now_with_functional_selector__pg_2.html&page=1

I'm going to need to build one of two of these..

Glad to see more builds with pictures and solutions.  I've got time to get back into the shop this weekend.  A bench grinder and small drill press are on my purchase list this weekend.

Craigslist!!!!

I need to try this also it would be cool in copper or brass

Absolutely.

I am interested in building one of these but after the EP Armory event...I'd really like to see something official from the ATF on these before I order.  Any thoughts on the topic from the mind hive here?

Thanks
Wes

Wes, I have inquired of the Flat Spot if they had sought a non-firearm determination letter from BATFE.  Their answer was they had not.  Order @ your own risk.  I did, even after I sent my zombie green blem EP Armory lower to Whiskerz to be tested to destruction as a post-sample machine gun.

Have one in progress.  Kinda fun and a nice diversion from doing aluminum and polymer 80%ers.  I do not have a TIG or MIG welder but do have an Oxy-Ace set.  So, brazing mine together with silver brazing rod.  Way more than enough strength, less heat and distortion, and tiny fillets where parts meet.  I'll post progress pics tonight.

Doesnt need to be red.  JB Weld breaks down completely over 600 degrees, its soft enough to break at 500.  Under those temps you wont break it at all without damaging the metal if prepped right.

2 part epoxies are expensive and messy.  Gonna try superglue - it's cheap.  We'll see how it goes.  I've got some other more important projects @ the moment.

Hi guys. Twistie from Tasmania. Ive had 2 ideas. The two hard to drill holes the detent holes for the selector & break open pin. Ok idea is cut a slot in place where the hole goes & I got (from hobby shop) tiny brass tube with reasonable wall thickness & silver solder or bronze on place. It will end up with a slightly raised area. Like its supposed to be. & other idea cut a slot for pistol grip nut & weld in place. ok cheers

Interesting idea.  I might try that on mine for the two detent holes.  Drilling and tapping the pistol grip screw hole was pretty simple.

There is another thread that discusses fabrication of these steel flats receivers

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/648352_I_welded_together_a_steel_receiver_from_theflatspot_net__More_pics_added_6_5_.html

Superglue for the pistol grip works pretty well:

So I decided to repurpose the first buffer tube assembly for my RRA PDS


I didn't have any dimensional steel bar so I sandwiched a couple 1/8" pcs together and welded & drilled.  Then welded directly to the buffer tube.


Quick test fit to ensure that it locked up before proceeding.  This tube diameter also worked for a Magpul CTR stock.


Welded the buffer tube rings to the tube.


Mock-up of the assemblies ready for welding.  I then spent time fitting an upper to the lower.  The other thread has given me some valuable insight into how to align the various pieces before welding.  I may purchase some more kits and redo the receiver portion before I commit to welding the butt stock.  Brazing seems to be a very clean and predictable method.  My MIG is just too clumsy for the type of precision needed.

lol it's going to be one of the heaviest AR out there!

Yes!  Since I have went this route I think it would be a fun challenge to fab a steel upper receiver as well.  The tube steel I located would be sufficient and it would just be a matter of figuring out the geometry and locating similar rectangle/square tube stock.  Maybe a side charging bolt?  Weld the barrel to the receiver?

Nice work guys!

I haven't checked this tread out since it started. Nice to see some of your guys' progress. I never even though about making my own buffer tube. That looks awesome! Thanks for the idea.

I did finish my receiver yesterday and posted pics in the thread that I started. It is 100% operational (at least as much as I need it to be) and painted. Feel free to take a look and ask me any questions about my methods and workarounds. I'd love to help.

I think somebody posted a link earlier but Here it is again.

Whats the gun catalogue your using to protect your work bench ? Would you like to do a trade or sell it please as I will never see a selection EVER in Tasmania like that. Ok no superglue for me. Nah ! Yes Im ( hypothetically) building a kit but I would like to keep it as close as possible to original . Ok weight. When you think about it the lower is not really that heavy. I think ! ITS STEEL ! not recycled coke cans. Would be cool if you guys email Flat spot to make upper kits. Eh ? If he gets enough enquiries ? You never know ? Another tip. During assembly instead of messy cumbersome clamps Ive got a stack of little 10mm dia rare earth magnets. There super strong. & its ok to loose some sacrificing when welding & bronzing. Hypothetically. I think these are perfect for 9mm platforms. cheers

Very interesting.  

Save half or more by using silver/gold.

I wonder how the AL ones would take a TIGing... I wonder if it would warp to bad.

What are use guys running for gas? CO2, stargon or trigon (tri-mix)...

The aluminum ones just screw together.

http://www.shotgunnews.com/

VERY clever use of magnets.  That might really help w/ the gluing.  Thinking of using 2-part epoxy for the rest of it, particularly where the side plates meet the trigger guard.  There's a nasty gap there.

PM me your mailing address.  I'll stuff some old issues in a box & drop it in the mail.

Cheers pm sent thanks. I will sort somthing Tasmanian for you. I would like info on captive buffer idea please . I will try & post pics latter when the possums get out of the satellite dish. Ha ha ha. cheers