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Posted: 11/15/2005 10:11:26 AM EDT
[#1]
that is most likely due to the frame rate of the video not catching every flash. I'm surprised that camera was able to handle the shockwave and noise at all. it did glitch every once and a while, you might have noticed it.
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Posted: 11/15/2005 10:27:58 AM EDT
[#2]
I figured it was something like that..but honestly didn't know.
Do you have anymore pics or vids with the handguard in place...gotta have that handguard! |
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Posted: 11/15/2005 10:57:41 AM EDT
[#3]
That video was awesome!!!!!!
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Posted: 11/15/2005 11:00:52 AM EDT
[#4]
You get the fireball every time. A video camera takes a series of pictures. The fireball lasts for a split second. The chances are low of capturing the flash so it's only chance when you see one. |
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Posted: 11/15/2005 11:01:02 AM EDT
[#5]
I really don't see anything "AR" about that pistol
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Posted: 11/15/2005 11:08:08 AM EDT
[#6]
That part I knew......the rest of it I was quite ignorant about....
I think it is just the mag...... |
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Posted: 11/15/2005 1:03:52 PM EDT
[#7]
I'll address the "It's not an AR" complaint I keep hearing. True, it's not an AR-15, but given it takes an AR-15 magazine and is the only other .223 production pistol on the market I'm aware of, I think it's appropriate to put here. It's a viable alternative to the AR-15 Frankenstein pistols us nutcases keep building and, hey, the thread is, what, 50 posts and three pages long? I'd suspect that even though it's slightly off topic, it's a viable thread. Let the moderator lock it if he wants to, but I think the discussion is spot-on for the fans of this forum.
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Posted: 11/15/2005 1:17:41 PM EDT
[#8]
How well would the 4-piece Krinkov Flash-hider perform on this on? Does it have muzzlebrake properties?
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Posted: 11/15/2005 3:15:51 PM EDT
[#9]
Besides the round and magazine, the PLR has an AR style locking, feeding, extraction, and ejection system. the bolt and barrel extension are very similar.
the gas operation, recoil spring, trigger and hammer group, and grip are different. |
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Posted: 11/15/2005 3:19:28 PM EDT
[#10]
And if Kel Tec could somehow be convinced to take another step and develop an upper assembly for AR's, based on this, we'd finally have a piston upper option that didn't cost as much as (or more than) a complete AR-15. (hint, hint, Kel Tec). Would also open up the stock options with a rifle length upper. I stopped by the local gunstore, this afternoon. He's still having trouble keeping the P3AT's in stock (sell within 2 days of putting them in the case), but he did have a couple of P11's and a P32. No SU16, though, and he hadn't heard about the new .223 pistol, yet. Guess I'll have to check again, next month (I told him I'd be back to talk to him about a Taurus 945, anyway). |
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Posted: 11/15/2005 3:33:11 PM EDT
[#11]
Just how similar, dimension-wise, is the barrel extension? (gears whirring in the head) You really need to look into what it would take to develop this design into an upper assembly for use on AR-15's. Build it to use a standard AR bolt (not the bolt and carrier assembly, just the bolt) and barrel (and offer it with or without those parts), and there should be enough d-i-y nuts (myself included) to keep you busy. The idea of buying a Kel Tec piston upper kit, then adding a bolt and barrel in any of the calibers currently available for AR's, has some appeal to it. |
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Posted: 11/15/2005 4:17:25 PM EDT
[#12]
Tagged.
Personal experiance with Kel-Tec products: The wife's P3AT has been 100% reliable with the (in)famous "fluff and buff"* (performed BEFORE the pistol was ever fired), and in stock configuration. Add-on NAA extended mag floorplates (a place to put your pinky when shooting) made the gun jam. Note that aftermarket parts designed for a different firearm made it jam. Seems their products work VERY reliably, but come just a bit "rough" from the factory. Fact is that KT is also a pretty darn innovative company. That P3AT is damn near the size of a Baretta .22, and half as heavy. Considering the price point, ALL their products are definately worth a look. I've been thinking about a "c" or "d" model of the SU-16 for a truck gun, but wanted to see if the pistol was ever going to be produced. </Kel-Tec praise> I can't believe no one has mentioned it yet, but if you want reliability reports for the carbine etc., try surfingwww.ktog.org. *20 minutes with some light sandpaper and polishing compound to smooth the action out. Similar to what would happen if you fired 100 rounds through the pistol. |
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Posted: 11/16/2005 11:56:13 AM EDT
[#13]
no thanx i dont like exploding guns
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Posted: 11/16/2005 12:08:08 PM EDT
[#14]
Oh really? Support your statement please? |
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Posted: 11/16/2005 12:27:45 PM EDT
[#15]
+1, let's hear of your first hand experience....I am very interested. |
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Posted: 11/16/2005 12:43:17 PM EDT
[#16]
Good Job Kel-Tec !!
I think I might just go for one of these. Now I like the idea of a AR upper!!!! - using the AR Bolt also would even make it better! Piston Upper ! he OH BO, OH BOY,OH BOY -- I can see it now !!!! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK !!! |
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Posted: 11/16/2005 12:44:37 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 11/16/2005 12:52:21 PM EDT
[#18]
same here. Let's hear it. You can't just post a statement like that without posting some evidence. |
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Posted: 11/16/2005 12:56:25 PM EDT
[#19]
Here's one of several I've seen: users.upstate.net/zoom/P-40/ Personally I'm not worried about them exploding. I haven't heard of that many Kel-Tec's that have. I'm more worried about jamming since that's the problem with every single Kel-Tec I've seen. My P-32 has been back three times, and I don't think I've made it through an entire magazine yet without a jam. After the first two times they didn't even bother to replace the slide stop spring so the assembly pin wouldn't fall-out. Kel-Tec's customer service is horrible. They don't even try. I even offered to pay extra if they'd test fire it, and they refused.z |
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Posted: 11/16/2005 1:16:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Hmmm, a P40 shooting unknown qulaity range ammo. Sure, he thinks it was Speer Lawman, but that's just the box it was in. No diagnosis, was it a squib load, double-charge, reload, or what? The 40 is notorious for blowing up pistols... even Glocks. The reason is most manufacturers just ream out a 9mm barrel. KT discontinued this gun already. So why is my new .223 barrel going to blow up? Get real.
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Posted: 11/16/2005 1:26:21 PM EDT
[#21]
tag
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Posted: 11/16/2005 1:28:22 PM EDT
[#22]
This would cool in the next XXX movie!
Vin Diesel, Sam Jackson,... that XXX movie |
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Posted: 11/16/2005 1:29:17 PM EDT
[#23]
That's not what I thought at first. I was thinking WTF does this thing have to do with an XXX movie? |
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Posted: 11/16/2005 1:34:39 PM EDT
[#24]
TAGGAGE |
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Posted: 11/16/2005 1:57:50 PM EDT
[#25]
+1
PLR-16 + XXX = Gun Porn ? OH YA! |
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Posted: 11/16/2005 2:07:35 PM EDT
[#26]
These things are still way overpriced, IMHO. If they were under $400, I'd get one. I just don't think they have the reputation to warrant $800 yet.
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Posted: 11/16/2005 2:08:32 PM EDT
[#27]
Yeah. For that money I'd go with a Bushmaster Carbon-15 pistol I think. |
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Posted: 11/16/2005 2:51:37 PM EDT
[#28]
Dealer should be around the $450-$500 range. I am not a dealer anymore, but still have a good friend that it. If I can snag one for dealer cost...I may get one. I would sure like to see one "In hand" before I throw down the money though.
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Posted: 11/16/2005 2:52:46 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 11/16/2005 3:08:25 PM EDT
[#30]
Retail prices from the web site: SU-16A: $640 SU-16B: $690 SU-16C: $740 SU-16CA: $740 SU-16D: $840 I'd only be insterested in the C/D models, so.... |
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Posted: 11/16/2005 3:42:54 PM EDT
[#31]
Oh so tagged, I want one
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Posted: 11/16/2005 4:50:09 PM EDT
[#32]
It was my understanding (from reading the KelTec forums, some time back) that KelTec discontinued the P40 due to it having the same problem (but even worse) as the P3AT - too much power in too light a package for some people to hold onto. If the recoil is being absorbed by the shooter's wrists and arms, there's not enough left to fully cycle the slide, resulting in some form of jam (FTF or FTE). Is a KelTec carry pistol something that you can take to the range and fire 500+ rounds through it without a single failure of any kind? Not really. After 70 rounds or so with the P3AT, my wrist is too sore to want to shoot it any more. I usually don't keep a close eye on how many rounds I put through a gun, but I know I have put 200+ rounds through a P11 in a single range session, several times, without a single malfunction. That was after I had spent some time getting the roughness out of the action (the previously mentioned 'fluff and buff'). If I tried 500+ rounds, I wouldn't be surprised if I started having some problems (actually, I'd be surprised if I didn't) with residue building up in the chamber or heat buildup (with a steel slide and aluminum alloy frame, things get tighter as they get hotter). But I doubt KelTec had that kind of shooting in mind when they were designing their lightweight, easy to conceal handguns. |
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Posted: 11/16/2005 5:56:28 PM EDT
[#33]
The D is an SBR, and the others you listed are rifles. The PLR-16 (retail $640) is a pistol. As has already been mentioned, store prices tend to be cheaper. My local gunstore runs around $40 to $50 under retail on the KelTec carry pistols (retail $300 to $314). |
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Posted: 11/16/2005 6:24:04 PM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 11/16/2005 7:03:08 PM EDT
[#35]
For that, I can put together an AR. Still way too high for me. It would have to be way below $400 before I would want to pick one up to play with. But hey, whatever floats your boat. |
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Posted: 11/16/2005 9:06:33 PM EDT
[#36]
Remember, this is a factory pistol with the Federal Excise tax and all. That's a DARNED good price for a gun that, if there's a problem, you can send back to KT for them to make it right. I seriously doubt you can make the equivelant AR pistol for anywhere near that price and, in the end, you have no warranty.
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Posted: 11/16/2005 9:39:58 PM EDT
[#37]
That's a good joke.z |
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Posted: 11/17/2005 4:46:03 AM EDT
[#38]
Do you and JPN work for kel-tec or what? I gave my reasons for not buying one, and they stand. Like I said, you have your own view, do whatever you want. It's a free country... |
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Posted: 11/17/2005 9:43:29 AM EDT
[#39]
Actually, your points do not stand. Even gun show / gun shop prices are lower than what it would cost you to piece together a gun, and that's after the FET and with a Warranty. Feel free to disagree in principle, but don't misrepresent the facts to get your point across. KelTec has a pretty good gun with the SU-16 family, but they have reliability issues sometimes, as do their P32 and P3AT pistols. If you don't think that KT is the way to go, you can also cite their fit/finish issues, lack of a track record, lack of aftermarket accessorizing capabilities (though KT has a good selection at reasonable prices). You can even cite your hatred for plastic in general. But don't try to feed us a line of cost. That is where Kel-Tec has always been able to beat the rest of the market and therefore your arguments don't hold water. Sorry, my BS detector is set really sensative. 
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Posted: 11/17/2005 11:01:10 AM EDT
[#40]
 Nice...if you don't like an argument, immediately claim that it's a lie. It's not hard to piece together an AR from used parts for under $400. I've done it more than once. Oh golly, it's used.  Oh golly, it doesn't have a warranty. You know what? It doesn't matter, because it's an AR, and it will run fine. You don't need a warranty.You admit that KTs don't always run right, and someone might need the warranty. To me, that's worse than not having a warranty and not needing it. It's like a warranty on a seat belt. Who wants a seat belt that needs a warranty? You're right, it's not just about price. It's about value. The useful role for this rifle or pistol for me would be a .223 trunk gun. If I'm not pretty damned sure that it's going to run after sitting in the car for a year, it has no value in that role. I know from experience that a homebuilt franken-ar will do that. |
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Posted: 11/17/2005 11:30:11 AM EDT
[#41]
Alright. I concede. You can build an AR from used parts for $400. Good on ya. You've defended yourself admirably.
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Posted: 11/17/2005 3:01:16 PM EDT
[#42]
Actually I think it's a pretty neat little pistol.
Thank you BadgerArms for posting this. I'll be checking into to it just to see what kind of Price I can get. |
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Posted: 11/17/2005 3:49:17 PM EDT
[#43]
$473! Damn, and I just spent that on another rifle last week. Now I might have to wait a week or two before ordering one of those! That's the range I was looking at. I just don't know if I could deal with the wait for it to arrive at my FFL's shop. Gotta get 'em, gotta get 'em all.
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Posted: 11/17/2005 4:43:00 PM EDT
[#44]
Read through some posts on the SU16 forum on KTRange. Found a post of a broken folding stock - poster reported that KelTec replaced it, and also explained his suspicion that it was caused by overtorquing at assembly. A few posts of broken firing pins, with followup posts that KelTec had changed the firing pin design. Ammo posts describing "sticky extraction" with older Wolf, a post or two claiming good results with newer Wolf, and posts recommending XM193 as the best choice. Cleaning advice included using an AR chamber brush every 500 rounds (apparently people are taking them to the range and firing 500+ rounds, or perhaps they just don't clean them after each range trip?). The highest round count I saw posted was one claiming a total of 4 or 5 cases of ammo through his SU16. Didn't see any posts about broken bolts, hammer or trigger pins, but I did see some comments about not expecting the plastic bipod/forearm assembly to hold up to any abuse.
And no, I don't work for KelTec. I'm just a happy customer (no, I don't drink the KelTec Koolaid).  Decide for yourself if it's worth the price. At this point, I'm interested enough to want to look one over closely at the store, but it'll probably be a while before I can make any room in the budget (need to put together another upper, and still haven't bought the last few bits and pieces for the 6.8). |
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Posted: 11/19/2005 8:55:49 AM EDT
[#45]
I hope that chrome lined will be an option in the future. After all they use the same barrel length as the D9 and that barrel is chrome lined.
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Posted: 11/20/2005 2:37:39 PM EDT
[#46]
Good thread so far, just keep it civil or its going to the pit.
btw, they do have a certain charm about them.... but I'm still not sure if I like it yet. |
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Posted: 11/22/2005 9:42:33 PM EDT
[#47]
My Su-16 is decently accurate (2" at 100 yards with open sights, better with a scope, but not much) has been flawlessly reliable with 30 rd alum milspec and orlite mags (likes them), and M193, M855,SS-109 (Federal, Imi, Sellier & Bellot), and Hornady Tap 55-69 gr ammo.
Will answer any other questions anyone has...I love it for the fact that I can fold it, throw it, 10 mags, and extra ammo in a backpack and be out the door. Great for SHTF. Paid $475 at a show in 2004. I bought the "C" stock" so it can be fired folded like a pistol--best of both worlds in my opinion. http://members.cox.net/thepowderkeg/Copy%20of%20su16csidelarge.jpg |
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Posted: 11/28/2005 7:41:48 AM EDT
[#48]
How about a 7.62*39 version that uses AK mags?
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Posted: 11/28/2005 8:01:37 AM EDT
[#49]
I'd buy one! |
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Posted: 11/28/2005 10:48:44 PM EDT
[#50]
Mine will be in tomorrow...and I hope that it will be as fun to shoot as the video looked....
My first thought when I saw the video was, "how freakin cool will that be with my sanil mag on it....?" Based on pix on page #1.....my answer is Schweeeeeet!hatHey fizassist.......lighten up life is short...go have some fun! |
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