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Posted: 10/28/2003 5:28:07 PM EDT
[#1]
58MOD will be really good, if you are holding the SIR with hand (not using vertical grip) and wanted to use a surefire on the side rail of SIR. You can put the surefire further out and thus you can grip it more comfortably (just what I need now!)
Man all that $$$... I sweared that my SIR would be the end of it. It seems like pouring water into a bottomless jar... |
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Posted: 10/28/2003 5:47:40 PM EDT
[#2]
PHOTOS DO NOT DO THIS THING, THE "MRP", JUSTICE. IT APPEARS MORE CONVENTIONAL THAN IT REALLY IS.
A TWO FOOT LONG 4" X 4" BLOCK OF ALUMINUM HAS HAD 95% OF IT MILLED AWAY. WHAT IS LEFT IS A ONE-PIECE RECEIVER/FOREND ASSEMBLY WITH QUICK CHANGE BARREL CAPABILITY. BEAUTIFULLY MACHINED, FINISHED, AND ANODIZED, THE MRP UTILIZES STOCK BOLT CARRIER GROUP AND CHARGING HANDLE. THE TOP RAIL IS THE SAME HEIGHT AS A STANDARD M4A1 FLAT TOP UPPER, SO ALL EXISTING RAIL MOUNTED SIGHTS AND OPTICS CAN BE EMPLOYED IN THE USUAL FASHION. THE BARREL IS CHANGED BY REMOVING THE TWO TORX HEAD FASTENERS AND THEN REMOVING THE BARREL, GAS BLOCK, AND GAS TUBE AS AN ASSEMBLY. THE INSTALLATION IS SIMPLY THE REVERSE. THE AFT END OF THE GAS TUBE IS KEPT IN PERFECT ALIGNMENT BY A METAL FIXTURE ON THE BARREL JUST AHEAD OF THE BARREL EXTENSION. TWO FOREND LENGTHS ARE OFFERED, RIFLE AND CQB/CARBINE. THE 16" AND 18" UTILIZE A PROPRIETARY MID-LENGTH GAS SYSTEM. THE GAS TUBE IS KEPT FURTHER FROM THE BARREL THAN WITH A STOCK AR'. ALSO, IT IS COMPLETELY STRAIGHT. PAUL AND I HAVE RECEIVED A PROTOTYPE 18" MRP UPPER WITH STAINLESS BARREL. ITS WEIGHT, WITH NO BOLT CARRIER GROUP, CHARGING HANDLE, OR OPTICS, WAS COMPARED TO THAT OF AN 18" SPR MK 12 MOD 1. THE MRP WEIGHED 4 LB 11 OZ. THE SPR SIMILARLY CONFIGURED WEIGHED 4 LB 10 OZ. BUT THE MRP'S BARREL DIAMETER WAS 0.875" UNDER THE HANDGUARDS, BEEFIER THAN THE SPR'S. THE MRP WAS OUTFITTED IT WITH AN LMT ENHANCED BOLT CARRIER GROUP, PRI GAS BUSTER CHARGING HANDLE, AND OUR STANDARD TEST SCOPE, A NIGHTFORCE 3.5-15X50 NXS IN BADGER ALLOY 1.4" RINGS. WE ALSO THREW ON AN OPS-INC 4-PORT BRAKE, REPLACING THE STOCK A2 FLASH HIDER. WHY? IT JUST LOOKED GOOD! AFTER GOING THROUGH THE BREAK-IN PROCESS, THE MRP SETTLED DOWN TO 5-SHOT SUB-MOA ( 0.825" ) AT 100 YARD WITH THE LIMITED AMMO SELECTION ON HAND. WE ALSO TRIED HOLDING THE GUN EXTREMELY HARD, WITH LOTS OF DOWNWARD PRESSURE, TO SEE IF WE COULD FLEX THE MRP RECEIVER/FOREND AND CAUSE A POINT OF IMPACT SHIFT. WE WERE NOT SUCCESSFUL IN THIS, WHICH IS GOOD. THE MRP IS SHOOTING WELL NOW. I AM CONFIDENT THAT WITH MORE TIME AND A BROADER CHOICE OF AMMO, WE HAVE A REALLY FINE PERFORMER ON OUR HANDS. NO MALFUNCTIONS OF ANY TYPE OCCURRED, BTW. THE BRASS WAS ALL IN A NEAT PILE. DOUG, I KNOW YOU SAID YOU WANTED THIS ... BUT ... MORE TESTING MUST FIRST BE DONE ... YEAH, MORE TESTING ... FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN OBTAINING AN MRP, THEY WILL BE PRICED AS FOLLOWS: MRP W/ CHROME LINED BARREL $1289 MRP W/ STAINLESS BARREL $1489 THIS IS JUST THE RECEIVER AND BARREL GROUP ... NO INNARDS. WE'LL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO PROVIDE THEM, HOWEVER. PRICING ON REPLACEMENT BARRELS WILL BE MADE PUBLIC SHORTLY. OUR NEXT TESTING WILL INCLUDE RETURN TO ZERO QUALITIES AFTER BARREL REMOVAL. WE LOOK FORWARD TO TESTING DIFFERENT CONFIGURATIONS, AS WELL. SMG LEE - THANKS FOR THE PIX, COMPADRE! MORE TOMORROW! WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL] |
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Posted: 10/28/2003 5:53:38 PM EDT
[#3]
AS FOR THE ARMS #58-MOD-M SIR, FOR A 14.5" - 16" UPPER, IT IS THE BEST CARBINE LENGH GAS SYSTEM SIR YET, IMO.
NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE FIRST AND SECOND DEGREE BURNS DURING TRANSITION TRAINING YOU CAN AVOID WITH THIS SIMPLE MOD. I'D SHOW PIX OF IT, TOO, BUT IT HAD TO TAKE A SUDDEN JOURNEY. THERE ARE A VERY FEW TO WHOM ONE CANNOT JUST SAY "NO". LIKE THE #17-PEQ-2A, WE'LL GET MORE. WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL] |
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Posted: 10/28/2003 6:08:07 PM EDT
[#4]
Wes why are you talking like Gandalf, full of riddles? [:d]
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Posted: 10/28/2003 6:12:13 PM EDT
[#5]
Can you still retain the front sight if the MRP is used? Or must you remove the FSB and install a short gas block?
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Posted: 10/28/2003 6:19:31 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Can you still retain the front sight if the MRP is used? Or must you remove the FSB and install a short gas block? gas block and bbl. are all in one with no front sight base. |
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Posted: 10/28/2003 6:25:05 PM EDT
[#7]
Maybe LMT is working on a fore end mounted front sight, otherwise the only I know of that mounts on the handguard is the KAC unit, I could be wrong though, Gandalf here can correct me [;)]
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Posted: 10/28/2003 6:32:52 PM EDT
[#8]
The #58 MOD has to work with both the STD issue front sight, plus the PRI folding front sight.
Jack |
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Posted: 10/28/2003 6:52:51 PM EDT
[#9]
While everyone is on the edge of the chair ... [b]great thread[/b] and thanks for having it before I ordered my RAS!.
Two questions: On the LMT upper, am I correct in assuming the barrels can not be effectly changed in the field while shooting to keep down barrel temperature, like is done on a M60 or MG-42. With the new longer ARMs mount, will there be an new ARMs folding front sight to go with it (aka a spring loaded front like the ARMs #40 etc.). Thanks John |
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Posted: 10/28/2003 7:03:28 PM EDT
[#10]
I don't know how important a quick change barrel is on an automatic rifle, unless you use it with a beta c magazine its sustained fire ability is limited by the magazine. Also having to use tools to loosen the screws...does that qualify it as a "quick" change barrel? This also means having to carry a screw driver, and spare screws in case they get lost (I understand the asbestos gloves for the Pig were invariably lost).
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Posted: 10/28/2003 7:10:30 PM EDT
[#11]
Although it wouldnt be as easy as swapping bbl.s in an MG42 it is possible and easy enough taking other configs. into account. It would be relatively easy though but like Duffy mentioned there are parts to lose.
Also like stated above, the idea of the MRP bbl. exchange seems to be geared toward the ability to be mission specific rather than carrying 2-3 barrels in the field. |
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Posted: 10/28/2003 7:10:45 PM EDT
[#12]
From my limited understanding the idea is nto so much a quick chnage barrel as in field swap a la GPMG or LMG - but an operator switch at a staging ground/forward base.
5.56mm --> 6.8x43mm and vice versa or to 7.62x39 etc |
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Posted: 10/28/2003 7:15:24 PM EDT
[#13]
Ya'.....exactly what Kevin said!
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Posted: 10/28/2003 7:20:42 PM EDT
[#14]
Ahhh...makes sense then, thanks [:d]
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Posted: 10/28/2003 7:35:58 PM EDT
[#15]
YES, KEVIN IS CORRECT. THE MRP HAS AN "EASY BARREL CHANGE SYSTEM" FOR CHANGES IN MISSION REQUIREMENTS, NOT NECESSARILY A "QUICK CHANGE" ONE LIKE A BELT-FED.
SMG LEE HAS BEEN SENT MORE PICS FOR TOMORROW. NOTHING PROFESSIONAL LIKE LUTZ DOES, THOUGH. WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL] |
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Posted: 10/28/2003 8:58:23 PM EDT
[#16]
I still dont get it.
Its cheaper to just buy conventional barreled uppers than that thing and multiple barrels. Its faster to swap dedicated uppers. Where do you mount the grenade launcher? Its heavier than the URX will be. Im not seeing a reason to go with that setup over alternatives. I guess the guys who have one of everything will get one. |
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Posted: 10/28/2003 9:29:19 PM EDT
[#17]
But we still dont know what the URX will cost.....or do we? Mike rock bbl's? But I would think the availability and the fact that it is something totally new to this realm are main factors that drive the cost. Others as well I am sure! |
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Posted: 10/28/2003 9:47:18 PM EDT
[#18]
Wes,
I was thinking you would have to run a variety of match ammo through it after your last email. I can wait until you thoroughly put it through it's paces! Keep me posted! Doug |
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Posted: 10/29/2003 12:30:48 AM EDT
[#19]
Question about that sir #58 mod. Is the forward rail area the same size as the #50 or is there more room?
Jason |
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Posted: 10/29/2003 4:57:54 AM EDT
[#20]
JUST LIKE THE #50.
I NEED ANOTHER #58-MOD SO I CAN POST SOME PICS. I ALREADY HAVE AN LMT 14.5" UPPER STRIPPED OF DELTA RING AND HANDGUARD CAP, READY FOR INSTALLATION. NO, WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE URX WILL COST, OR EVEN IF IT WILL GO INTO PRODUCTION. IT, TOO, IS A REALLY NEAT SYSTEM WE ALL LOOK FORWARD TO. BUT, THERE IS NO REASON TO THINK THE URX IS NECESSARILY LIGHTER THAN THE MRP. I SUSPECT THEY'LL WEIGH IN WITHIN A FEW OUNCES. WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL] |
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Posted: 10/29/2003 5:52:49 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: From my limited understanding the idea is nto so much a quick chnage barrel as in field swap a la GPMG or LMG - but an operator switch at a staging ground/forward base. Thanks ... Had not though of the easy cal change ... now if good 20 round mags come out in a little over a year from now ... the 7.62 by 39 is very interesting (or possible in a semi now with the AK mag lower ... no experence with these). |
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Posted: 10/29/2003 5:55:35 AM EDT
[#22]
I was curious if the two torx screws act as a "clamp" or to just hold the barrel into the receiver? If not, H&K type push pins would make it a quicker change in the absence of tools.
Whatcha think? Mark |
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Posted: 10/29/2003 7:18:55 AM EDT
[#23]
More picture of the MRP in action. also include a cool side view of Wes' bitchen Ford Lightning.
[img]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/mstn/mrp-6.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/mstn/mrp-7.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/mstn/mrp-8.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/mstn/mrp-9.jpg[/img] Enjoy |
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Posted: 10/29/2003 7:33:22 AM EDT
[#24]
Good grief, that is some kind of hardware!!!
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Posted: 10/29/2003 7:55:53 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: MRP W/ CHROME LINED BARREL $1289 MRP W/ STAINLESS BARREL $1489 MY DREAMS [heavy] |
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Posted: 10/29/2003 8:01:21 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: I still dont get it. Its cheaper to just buy conventional barreled uppers than that thing and multiple barrels. Well, that's true if you're only going with 2-3 uppers, but when you have 4+ barrels, that thing starts to pay off. Its faster to swap dedicated uppers. Where do you mount the grenade launcher? Its heavier than the URX will be. All true. You also have to consider that if you do happen to break something, let's say the rail area in the front, you're going to have to repair/replace the whole thing except the barrel. That's one of the good things about modularity.. one part breaks, all you have to replace is that one part. This thing has it's benefits and drawbacks. I REALLY like that the gas tube is kept in perfect alignment. If it were cheaper, I'd atleast consider buying one, but it's not even an option for me at those prices. |
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Posted: 10/29/2003 8:53:38 AM EDT
[#27]
Great pics..........
Ya sure you don't need more family Wes......I promise to buy my own shoes[:D] The more I look at this thing the more I see what you mean! |
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Posted: 10/29/2003 10:46:12 AM EDT
[#28]
Excellent pics! My wallet is hurting already!!!
Wes, The OPS, Inc. 4 port brake is legal on post-ban rifles, right? |
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Posted: 10/29/2003 11:29:24 AM EDT
[#29]
The OPS, Inc. 4 port brake is legal on post-ban rifles, right? Dont think so. Unless you get a letter from BATF. |
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Posted: 10/29/2003 12:50:06 PM EDT
[#30]
Detail pictures of the barrel configuration.
[img]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/mstn/MRP-10.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/mstn/MRP-11.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/mstn/MRP-12.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/mstn/MRP-13.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 10/29/2003 12:51:14 PM EDT
[#31]
I JUST PULLED THE BARREL. I WAS GOING SLOW WITH A TORQUE WRENCH, BUT I WOULD GUESS THAT IT WOULD NOT TAKE OVER A MINUTE OR TWO TO SWAP BARRELS IF YOU HAVE THE CORRECT TOOLS.
THE 18" SS MRP BARREL WITH GAS BLOCK AND GAS TUBE WEIGHS 37 OUNCES. FOR COMPARISON'S SAKE, A BARE 18" SPR PROFILE BARREL WEIGHS 38 OUNCES. BUT THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE A KAC GAS BLOCK OR GAS TUBE, WHICH WEIGH 2.5 OUNCES. WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL] |
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Posted: 10/29/2003 1:04:46 PM EDT
[#32]
Would it be possible to post detail pictures of the receiver with the barrel removed?
Looks like a very ingenious setup! |
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Posted: 10/29/2003 1:21:05 PM EDT
[#33]
I hate you. My credit card is crying...
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Posted: 10/29/2003 1:30:06 PM EDT
[#34]
Ahhh........more pics! and more to come! I'm never going to get my paperwork done:)
On another note: Thats a fairly substantial weight difference all things considered. Any ideas how they got it down to that? Even considering the gas tube is held in place by that collar(ie. more weight) I would assume the bbl. assembly would weigh far more than a normal SPR finished barrel. Cool! |
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Posted: 10/29/2003 1:52:01 PM EDT
[#35]
Oh, so its not a "quick change" barrel like a Styer AUG. Mearly a quicker change that still requires tools, and a cold barrel.
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Posted: 10/29/2003 2:09:26 PM EDT
[#36]
A few weeks ago Wes warned me he had some wallet-emptying cool stuff coming. I guess he wasn't kidding [;)]
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Posted: 10/29/2003 3:42:29 PM EDT
[#37]
I saw a pic of a KAC mount for the M203 that allowed attachement to the lower rail of a FF RAS. (It was on a KAC FF RAS MRE that some guy in Finland with way way too many toys owned - that is if you can have too many toys.)
That would work on this too. to answer DEVl's Q. [b]My question is there a Benefit to the gas tube? is it stronger? are side walls thicker? how much thicker? [/b] |
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Posted: 10/29/2003 4:20:15 PM EDT
[#38]
Will they eventually be producing 6.8 SPC barrels for this set-up?
Thanks! |
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Posted: 10/29/2003 4:44:41 PM EDT
[#39]
THE GAS TUBE IS DIMENSIONALLY THE SAME AS A NORMAL ONE. IT IS STRAIGHT, HOWEVER, AND IS INTENTIONALLY KEPT FURTHER FROM THE BARREL FOR HALF ITS LENGTH, TO HELP KEEP IT COOLER.
AS SOON AS A PARTICULAR MAJOR U.S. FIREARMS/AMMO MANUFACTURER DECIDES TO MAKE THE 6.8 X 43 SPC PUBLIC, I FEEL CERTAIN THAT 6.8 X 43 BARRELS WILL EVENTUALLY BE FORTHCOMING FROM LMT. THIS BRINGS UP ONE OF THE MOST APPEALING ASPECTS OF THE MRP FOR THE CIVILIAN SHOOTER WHO LIKES TO EXPERIMENT WITH DIFFERENT CALIBERS OR BARREL LENGTHS OR BARREL TYPES (PRECISION STAINLESS VS SHOOT-A-LOT CHROME LINED). THE BARREL CHANGE-OUT WILL BE SO QUICK AND SIMPLE. IN A MATTER OF MINUTES YOU CAN BE CHECKING ZERO WITH A DIFFERENT CALIBER OR A DIFFERENT BARREL TYPE/LENGTH. WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL] |
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Posted: 10/29/2003 6:54:35 PM EDT
[#40]
Hmmm rail mounted sights for the MRP, Troy Industries have outdone themselves, will have some live pics in a few days and no I dont work for them,thanks
Oh well |
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Posted: 10/29/2003 7:18:23 PM EDT
[#41]
Are they selling the RED X? Or is that free? [;)]
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Posted: 10/29/2003 7:52:16 PM EDT
[#42]
Wes, any word on the twist rates in the LMT barrels?
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Posted: 10/30/2003 5:55:21 AM EDT
[#43]
1X7" TWIST ON ALL BARRELS.
WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL] |
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Posted: 10/30/2003 6:16:38 AM EDT
[#44]
Wes,
Your killing us... Quick question - this monolithic upper will pretty much require the HK AG36 GL? I dont see any other system that would mount or did LMT design their own AGL? -Kevin |
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Posted: 10/30/2003 6:25:48 AM EDT
[#45]
LMT HAS THEIR OWN.
S/F- WES |
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Posted: 10/30/2003 6:34:14 AM EDT
[#46]
Learn something new everyday
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Posted: 10/30/2003 6:35:03 AM EDT
[#47]
With the current cost of a nice flat top upper (mid hundred to over two), free floating rail system (four hundred or higher for MRE types) and barrel (couple hundred) the break even point for the barrel change system is around two rail systems, not counting optics or sights (which in theory could be moved between uppers if you are re-sighting in but never are).
If cost was no object ... two upppers, one with ACOG and one with Aimpont / Eotech would be interesting. Any issues with using on a M16 ... this could be interesting. [blue] On a side note ... anyone have information and/or links on the 6.8 X 43 ammo (i.e. will it feed in standard M16 mags, bullet weight, velocity ....)[/blue] |
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Posted: 10/30/2003 6:59:51 AM EDT
[#48]
LMT is the largest M203 MFG. in the country, so whatever they have will probably be 1st class
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Posted: 10/30/2003 7:03:02 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: LMT HAS THEIR OWN. S/F- WES That is cool! I would love to be a fly on the wall of their engineering dept. |
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Posted: 10/30/2003 8:12:29 AM EDT
[#50]
Damn it, Wes! I want one! [}:D]
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