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...BTW, if the SIR isn't officially adopted, does that mean there's something wrong with it?


Chris

BTW, if the SIR isn't officially adopted, does that mean there's something wrong with it?

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LORD STONER, NO Dicky boy here and your unbriddled ignorance and hatred of competition is showing again. It's always interesting how a certain very few Co. personel/groupies always try to minimise and make personal attacks at what the real R&D companies do, and not just at ARMS. Since you never had this one of a kind belt fed rigid frames from about 1990 in your hands and the dimentions were never published, you wouldn't know, but would say BS any way. In fact Ft. benning Inf. school, Picatinny and Crane in the past have all had this belt fed for concept R&D. It was never made for production. It was not as wide as your RIS OR RAS with panels, that's another reason how I know your full of crap. The handguards fliped up like gull wings, and in fact the carbine version is what was chosen by Picatinny because it free floated the barrel, and had all the other things available I listed as options. ARMS may may possibly have the same old brochure that I have.
None of us know what the discounts are that Uncle gets, but all military suppliers are required to certify that they have given the US gov't the best price for a particular product. With so many gov't purchasing channels, no one knows who has bought what from any company, and only that company would know to a point, as many things are bought from many dif. sources, and sold thru various distribution channels and contracts. I seem to remember pic's on here with SIR's in Afg. being used by personel attached to the State Dept. protecting the new head guy from that country. I'm sure that the purchasing agent in Germany was not involved in that too, or the SIR's just shown on parade with Spec ops troops in the Phillipines, so much for that  line of nonsense about who has sold what. I'd like to get the article that is in German, but I have enough problems with englich:)
Jack
     

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LORD STONER, NO Dicky boy here...It's always interesting how a certain very few Co. personel/groupies...
Jack
     

The only thing worse then your Rigid Frame, is the Chauchat or the M60 GPMG.

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Yeah how demeaning to the Chauchat [nana]

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I think the rail systems as we know them (USSOCOM's M4 RIS and Army M4 & M5 RAS's) are the end of the AR evolution. It just would not be cost effective to switch to a radically different and more costly AR designs that offer (at best) so little, and ambiguous, "improvement."
Our next rifle/carbine will not have a gas tube that dumps shit directly into the breech area, and it will have a stock that folds (reducing OA length by 1/3rd) so the barrel can be as long as possible for exterior ballistic reasons.
The lights, lasers, and etc. will be "built in", not collaged on an exterior skeleton aparatus.
This new weapon will not fire conventional brass cased ammunition...
The era of the "modular" AR is coming to an end...that is to say, Dick missed "das boat."

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I was a C-6/M240 gunner for two years [0:)]

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All companies obviously have followers and some go to the next level of a [red]goupie[/red], and make personal attacks instead of discussing product performance. Some of those companies not only seen to encourage it, but even take part, and then deny it, as just evidenced above.
Jack

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The M16 series is far from extinction.  rail systems are just the beginning.   integrating all that crap inside would be retarded as new and better stuff is coming out every day.  a piston upper for the AR is not far off.

as for non brass cased ammo, it will be a long time before they make something thats infantry proof.

as for folding stocks, thats just more parts to lose or keep in stock for a feature whose benefits dont add up to the further logistical nightmare and cost.

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Clint - I have held and shot the Sig's 550,551,552 - still like my M16 derivatives...

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i'd rather have a retractable stock with LOP adjustability to compensate for different shooting stances/clothing and gear than a folder that doesn't have an adjustable LOP.
MM

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Dave,

Your killing me.  Do you mean to tell us that you don't not see a worthwhile advantage to the freefloat, the modified bolts, etc to justify an upgrade?

OR

Is this 10+years away

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If done right, you can have the best of both worlds.
ls
[url]http://www.zmweapons.com/images/5_pos_st.jpg[/url]

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I like the MRP. It's my favorite of the fixed rail designs but I prefer the SIR's selective rails. We've got 2 that're used pretty damned hard and we've yet to have any problems with either.

[red]One thing I don't like about the MRP (and FFRAS) is that if you damage a rail it's integral to the system and can't be replaced... So if you take a dive and your flashlight damages the rail when you hit the wrong way, you might be up sh*t creek. Other than that, the MRP is as rigid as they come, and the quick barrel change is awesome. I'd LOVE to see a SIR style upper handguard machined (with an upper rail that's the standard height) into an upper receiver that accepted the SIR lower. THAT would [/red]

And two things about the OT discussion going on here about next gen parts:

HK is NOT hedging all of their bets on the XM8. There is a gas-piston operated M16 upper that's in the running also, and multiple other items.

[red]And about caseless ammo... Anyone remember the G11? HK already wasted untold millions on that project, and they've got a huge advantage in that area. They weren't scared to toss around cash for that, the XM8, the XM28, and all of these other pipe dreams, don't think that they'll hesitate to dump another $2 million into the caseless ammo department if it'll produce a winner.[/red]

It looks likes this new HK plant is being built for a reason, and its NOT for production of the XM8 in its current form.

They've got a LOT on the horizon, and it looks like they're going to surprise us all with some of the stuff they've developed.

BTW, I can honestly say that I'm NOT an HK fan. I wish the best of luck to ARMS, LMT, KAC, and all of the other companies trying to keep the M16 alive in its current form, but... If what HK is saying is true, the new piston operated upper, the XM8, and the AG36 are just to get the foot in the door.

When a solicitation for the M16 replacement comes about in a few years, they will be ready.

-Cap'n

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TALK ABOUT DOUBLE TALK< THE URX HAS TO BE SENT TOO KAC FOR INSTALATION TO GET IT INTO PERFECT ALIGNMENT WITH THE RECIEVER, BECAUSE ACCORDING TO KAC, THE US ARORERS WHOUDN"T BE ABLE TO GET IT INTO PERFECT ALIGHHNMENT. JACK