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Posted: 10/1/2004 6:35:40 AM EDT
[#1]
Obviouly OlyArms is using or remembering the M16A1 zeroing procedure due to the mention of the 25 & 250M ranges - and I was commenting on the A1 zeroing procedure. Not to mention the number of people on this board with either Colt SP1s or A4gerys with A1 type BUISs. |
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Posted: 10/1/2004 9:44:42 AM EDT
[#2]
This is why I asked in my original post what type of weapon / sighting system he was using. My expertise is with the A2. BZO'ing is simpling getting the system set up to work as intended. 8/3 -2 = 200yrds, 8/3 = 300yrds, 8/3 +5 = 500yrds and 8/3 -3 is damn close at 100yrds. Most people don't realize that the M16 A2 rear sight bottoms at 8/3 -3 and new AR A2's bottom at 8/3. Most don't realize that they need to reindex the rear sight for it work as intended. |
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Posted: 10/1/2004 10:29:05 AM EDT
[#3]
Some M16s bottom out at 8/3-3. Depends on when they were procured. But all it takes is an allen wrench and a few mintues to reindex the wheel to bottom out at any spot the user selects. When I had an A2 upper it was set to bottom out at 8/3-2 (per the IBSZ). |
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Posted: 10/1/2004 10:41:46 AM EDT
[#4]
That's what I was trying to point out. My new A2 upper bottomed at 8/3. I had to reindex to 8/3 -3 so I could utilize the sight as it was intended. |
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Posted: 10/4/2004 6:35:20 AM EDT
[#5]
What is the proceedure to reindex the A2 rear sight to 8/3-3 as suggested earlier?
DuxRus |
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Posted: 10/4/2004 7:38:02 AM EDT
[#6]
There is a set screw just forward of the aperture as you look down from the top. It requires a 1/16" Allen wrench. Rear sight must be set to 8/3 to access. Loosen the screw 3 full turns, leave the wrench in the screw and rotate the BOTTOM ring ONLY of the rear sight 3 clicks clockwise. You'll notice the rear sight raise as you do this. Tighten the screw and check it out. |
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Posted: 10/4/2004 7:54:05 AM EDT
[#7]
Thanks for the advicehis
DuxRus |
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Posted: 10/4/2004 7:55:39 AM EDT
[#8]
Is that the corrected chart F? Sight alignment  Sight picture  Rear sight nomenclature  How low at 25 yards Jivana108? -2cm or so is fine for a 300 yd zero. You can zero low at 25 or zero POI/POA at 25 with the RSB set at 8/3+3 for a true 300 yd zero. That's a 20" A2 with M193. |
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Posted: 10/4/2004 8:01:50 AM EDT
[#9]
That's the chart for the M4 (which was correct) - the 'corrected' chart was for the 20" (which I did not post as we're talking carbines). |
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Posted: 10/4/2004 8:02:43 AM EDT
[#10]
One helpful hint - when you loosen the screw DON'T REMOVE THE WRENCH - leave it there as you make your adjustment. |
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Posted: 10/4/2004 8:05:03 AM EDT
[#11]
Whenever you get confused about which way to move the sights, imagine doing it to the extreme. For example, imagine raising the front sight about 2 feet high. The barrel will be pointing down towards your feet
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Posted: 10/4/2004 8:05:12 AM EDT
[#12]
I posted that in my instructions. |
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Posted: 10/4/2004 8:11:40 AM EDT
[#13]
I must have missed the part where Jivana said he had a carbine. |
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Posted: 10/4/2004 8:50:04 AM EDT
[#14]
Me also. I even asked what type rifle and sights. |
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Posted: 10/4/2004 9:44:37 AM EDT
[#15]
You are correct - I don't know how I missed it. But it does bear repeating. |
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Posted: 10/4/2004 9:46:06 AM EDT
[#16]
Chart was pasted in response to DM1975's comment "I zero at 25 meters, dead on. This puts me dead on at 300 meters(with an M4, this is different for a full length AR)." Sorry for any confusion. |
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Posted: 10/4/2004 1:49:33 PM EDT
[#17]
I'm gonna go out on a limb and follow the party line, but I see no problem with the U.S.Army's 25 M zero to apply a 300M battle zero. It worked on M16A1's and A-2's I have shot and it worked just peachy on the M-4 I got Issued. The Problem with all this crap is it deviates from the standard. You have to have ONE Standard. the problem is so much deviation from the ONE standard. In My 21 years working for Uncle Sugar I found that if your follow the ONE standard consistently you will get consistent results time and time again. I love how everyone thinks that the Army way is the dumb way. There clue less. That way is stupid...blah,blah,blah..
Were Talking an organization that's been around a LONG TIME and were figuring out how to teach Soldiers to kill long before any of us were wearing green. What the hell kind of zero do you think our soldiers are currently using to Kill bad guys???? That's right.. you guessed it.. the 25METER ZERO. all those ballistic charts and graphs are great to argue the point of who has a better zero but if you think the 25 Meter Zero sucks... You come and stand 300 meters downrange from me and I'll show you how much it sucks.... 
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Posted: 10/4/2004 3:22:39 PM EDT
[#18]
I took my M4 out this weekend and shot it useing M855 ball. I zeroed it at 25 Yards (not a meter range) I then fired from 300 yards, 200 yards, 150 yards, and 100 yards. All rouds struck center mass of target. This was all shot supported sitting. I used both the BUIS and CCO when shooting and had same results with both. Final shot pattern after all 200 rnds were fired measured about 14 inches total (7 inches off of center mass). Taking into account the weapon, shooter, and ammo (which are all factors contributing to your final MOA) I would say that is pretty good. A standard military M4 zero target was used for the zero and the standard M9 target was used for 100 to 300 yards. When the target was checked at 300 yards (after the weapon was zeroed to 25 yards) shot group was center mass of target. I know it is not an "official internet chart" and only real world shooting so you might not take any of this into consideration but I expect that. |
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Posted: 10/4/2004 7:33:00 PM EDT
[#19]
S'cool, I thought I might have missed his response amongst all the chatter.
Funny how that works eh? 
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Posted: 10/5/2004 6:33:49 AM EDT
[#20]
Harv, The problem is in real life those targets are not going to 'Stand down range" and let you hit them. They are going to be using cover and moving. Under those conditions a zero that is more precise gives you a much better chance of hitting what you are aiming at. I'd hate to be aiming at enemy soldeir that is prone or behind cover at 150M only to have my rounds consistantly fly over his head... But you are right the Army needs to be consistant - however 'Consistantly Good' is better than 'Consistantly Mediocre'. |
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Posted: 10/5/2004 6:40:20 AM EDT
[#21]
Sorry DM I've done the same thing and gotten different results. Might I ask the following: 1) Were you using a sling? 2) Was your barrel free floated (and if so was the sling attached to the barrel or tube). Thanks.
DM, How is it your rounds consistantly struck center mass of the target? I though you were shooting bullets not laser beams? There had to be some variance... |
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Posted: 10/5/2004 6:40:37 AM EDT
[#22]
The Army's zeroing procedure is dicked up. Listen to Forest, he knows what the hell he's talking about.
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Posted: 10/5/2004 2:18:18 PM EDT
[#23]
Sorry, not on this he doesn't. I give up the argument however. |
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Posted: 10/5/2004 3:33:23 PM EDT
[#24]
tagged
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Posted: 10/5/2004 4:28:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Not to steal anyone's thunder here, but I've got a few questions.
I opted to go with an ARMS #40 and a flat-topped receiver on my AR because I will eventually mount an EOTech or Aimpoint. What's the best way to get an IBSZ (or close to it) with that? The ranges I use are in standard (yards). I zero'd at 25 yards last time, and could hit the 300 yards steel diamonds (not paper, so I'm not sure of group size or placement). I need to try things at 100 yards still, but it sounds as if I'm going to be off quite a bit. Any suggestions? I'm using a 16" HBAR, and have to adjust elevation with the front post, if that helps any. Thanks. 
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Posted: 10/5/2004 5:02:06 PM EDT
[#26]
OK. Hell, I don't know a thing about shooting anyway, they just gave me that big stupid M24 because they thought I wasn't packing enough gear, or something. |
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Posted: 10/5/2004 6:38:00 PM EDT
[#27]
I got mine because the unit armorer didn't want to clean it.
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Funny, thats how we zero our rifles in the Army and they dont seem to have a problem hitting between 25 and 300 meters. I have zeroed my rifle at this range, and everyone else around me did too, and I can still see bullet traces only varrying by 1 MOA or so.