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Quoted: Four FAL's, three AR's, if  Zombies pull up in the drive, their going to meet a FAL.

Zombies in the driveway? For ranges that close I'll stick with my Mossberg 500 hotgun.gif

Quoted: Quoted: Four FAL's, three AR's, if  Zombies pull up in the drive, their going to meet a FAL. Zombies in the driveway? For ranges that close I'll stick with my Mossberg 500

8 shots then reloading, then 8 more shots and reloading again
hope there isnt too many zombies

this requires CQB tactics which would best work with an M4

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Four FAL's, three AR's, if  Zombies pull up in the drive, their going to meet a FAL. Zombies in the driveway? For ranges that close I'll stick with my Mossberg 500 8 shots then reloading, then 8 more shots and reloading again hope there isnt too many zombies this requires CQB tactics which would best work with an M4

Just get out the good old chainsaw!   Just kiding, gosh!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why not convert your AR/M4 to .308 caliber? In my opinion, the M16 system has a little better ergonomics than the Para FAL. You can't convert an AR15/M4 to fire .308.  There is no conversion kit...period! I believe there IS an AR lower available that has interchangable magwell, that you could either slap a .308 or .223 upper on (and also a 7.63 x 39, I believe).

You are correct, Cobb manufacturing makes the MCR (Multi-Caliber Rifle) which allows you to switch mag-wells for almost all .30 cals up to and including .30-06 with .338 Lapu in the works IIRC.  Pretty neat system actually.

ETA: I'd still go with the para-FAL for reliability, parts availibility, mags. As far as accuracy goes it's more then accurate enough for just about any SHTF situation.  Some here act like the accuracy difference between the AR10 and FAL is as vast as that between the AR15 and AK47..

para fal. the only way to go, i mean do you real want to trust your life to a mouse gun. these poodle shooters seem to not understand the awesome power of the 7.62 nato compared to the 5.56. the Fal's reliable and toughness is well known, can't saw the same for the ar now can you.

flame redarant suit on and checked for holes

I'm thinking of changing my SHTF main battle rifle from an AR/M4 to a Para FAL

I like the way you think...

Quoted: I guess I'm posting it here to get the opinions of the AR/M4 crowd for the M4/AR Vs the Para Fal.

My thoughts on ParaFAL vs. M4 - based on my previous thinking on this:

1.  what specific models are we comparing.  In my case, it's Frankenfal with a DSA railed foregrip, assembled by Arizona Response Systems ($1500 or so) versus a Colt LE 6920 with KAC RAS II (around $1400 or so).  Neihter price figure includes foregrip, Aimpoint, etc.

2. WHAT IS THE MISSION?  

A. What sort of SHTF scenarios are you thinking of:
(1) nuclear war?  (IMHO: not even worth preparing for, in No. VA I'll be dead.  And it hain't happening)
(2) massive, multiday power outage? (possible)
(3) Katrina type situation (less possible in No. VA)
(4) home invasion by random criminal (possible)
(5) others that only you can envision?

B. what kind of threat are we talking about in each scenario and what do we want the rifle to do?
My thoughts: in a power outage/natural disaster, we're talking about a breakdown in government order from a few hours to several days, and then curfews and such for a few days to several weeks.  The threat is from looters.  

C. Do you need the rifle for any collateral purposes, i.e. whitetail hunting for food?
In my case, no.  Even out in the country, I don't see any reason to choose a FAL only for the reason of  shooting .308 for deer+ sized game.   I can keep a hunting rifle that can do the same.  
Out in the far west, where you have bigger (elk) and potentially dangerous game, I would definitely keep a .30 Win Mag or greater (instead of a .308) if I thought critter-shooting was necessary.  
Besides, the right .223 rounds will even get a deer or a wild boar in a pinch (I know I know....).   So, I don't see any reason to pick a FAL simply so I can hunt with it too.  The AR should be fine for things up to whitetails; beyond that I really should have a second hunting rifle available for SHTF.

C. What are your objectives in each use of force scenario (and seperately, is this in accordance with the law?)
In the looters case, I want them to GTF away from my property.   If they're armed and looking for trouble, I'm probably firing several rounds at them (the only case where I can envision a firefight in civilian life).  Note that this will almost CERTAINLY attract unwanted LE/military attention.  

In the use of force case, if I see a potentially armed man running around my house I am, assuming I need to use force to defend my life in a manner perscribed by state law, going to dispatch him as quickly as possible until he poses no threat.  I imagine I'll shoot a few rounds and either hit him or get him to run away.   No more than 5-6 shots in any case.  

3. What are you going to do with the rifle?  Where will the threat appear?  When will you first see it?What is the range that the threat will appear?   To what degree are we going to do NRA highpower type shooting?   To what degree are you going to be doing "practical rifle" type CQB shooting?  

In my case, I don't anticipate seeing the threat any further than 100yd. away from me.  
-  Beyond 100yds. I don't anticipate being able to distinguish threat from non-threat (i.e. they won't be openly brandishing weapons yelling ay me from 100+yd. away looking to start a fight).   I doubt that there's anyway I could justify shooting a dude over 100yds. from me in court - it's just too far.  

- Beyond 100yds., I don't think I can consistently hit a MOVING, potentially camoflagued, man sized target that might be shooting back at me, especially after it goes scrambling after the first shot.  

So, I don't expect to engage an enemy further than 100yd., and I think in my case that I will engage him at a substantially shorter range.

Based on all this, I don't think we'll be doing any NRA-highpower shooting, and any shooting I get will be closer to "practical shooting".  The rifle then will be used to hit human targets - ONLY when my life is in clear and serious danger, in a situation where I am willing to justify it before the court as a justifiable homicide- at a range of 100yd.  

4. What kind of ammo do I want?
AFAIC, at ranges where the 5.56 XM193 doesn't fragment, and where the 5.56 will fully penetrate the human body (that is 150yd to 500 yd.), 7.62 M80 is no different from 5.56 XM193 or XM855 except in that it makes a 2.06mm wider hole.   I accept Fackler's methodology of wound ballistics; the extra 2.06mm makes it only a tiny bit more capable of hitting the CNS.  Thus, regardless of the round, if I don't get a good CNS-hitting shot I'll need to take a second (or, more likely, the target will shoot back at me and go running, dashing all subsequent chances I have to hit with anything more than luck).      

Now, if we're talking about Hornady TAP or Black Hills ammo with the 7Xgr. .223s and 155gr./168/175 308s, that's a different story about lethality.  However, I think that, based on a good hit, a .223 will be sufficient for just about any purpose anywhere from 1-300yd., and that a 308 may not get you significantly better results.   But that's just my opnion.  

So, what rifle do I want?

AFAIC, it's just a matter of preference.  I don't think there's anything inherent to either system that makes it better than the other for the scenarios I listed.  

So, the question is, do I like the FAL or the 6920 for CQB?  In my case, the recoil in the FAL is much greater than the AR, to the point that CQB training (to say nothing of combat performance) is much easier with the AR.  I also like the fact that it's lighter.  I don't like the fact that it doesn't have a real folding stock.  


So, I chose the 6920.  Your preferences may be different.  

BTW - NICE setup, DarkNite!!!!

Do it, I double dog dare you

Quoted: Quoted: I guess I'm posting it here to get the opinions of the AR/M4 crowd for the M4/AR Vs the Para Fal. My thoughts on ParaFAL vs. M4 - based on my previous thinking on this: 1.  what specific models are we comparing.  In my case, it's Frankenfal with a DSA railed foregrip, assembled by Arizona Response Systems ($1500 or so) versus a Colt LE 6920 with KAC RAS II (around $1400 or so).  Neihter price figure includes foregrip, Aimpoint, etc. 2. WHAT IS THE MISSION?   A. What sort of SHTF scenarios are you thinking of: (1) nuclear war?  (IMHO: not even worth preparing for, in No. VA I'll be dead.  And it hain't happening) (2) massive, multiday power outage? (possible) (3) Katrina type situation (less possible in No. VA) (4) home invasion by random criminal (possible) (5) others that only you can envision? B. what kind of threat are we talking about in each scenario and what do we want the rifle to do? My thoughts: in a power outage/natural disaster, we're talking about a breakdown in government order from a few hours to several days, and then curfews and such for a few days to several weeks.  The threat is from looters.   C. Do you need the rifle for any collateral purposes, i.e. whitetail hunting for food? In my case, no.  Even out in the country, I don't see any reason to choose a FAL only for the reason of  shooting .308 for deer+ sized game.   I can keep a hunting rifle that can do the same.   Out in the far west, where you have bigger (elk) and potentially dangerous game, I would definitely keep a .30 Win Mag or greater (instead of a .308) if I thought critter-shooting was necessary.   Besides, the right .223 rounds will even get a deer or a wild boar in a pinch (I know I know....).   So, I don't see any reason to pick a FAL simply so I can hunt with it too.  The AR should be fine for things up to whitetails; beyond that I really should have a second hunting rifle available for SHTF. C. What are your objectives in each use of force scenario (and seperately, is this in accordance with the law?) In the looters case, I want them to GTF away from my property.   If they're armed and looking for trouble, I'm probably firing several rounds at them (the only case where I can envision a firefight in civilian life).  Note that this will almost CERTAINLY attract unwanted LE/military attention.   In the use of force case, if I see a potentially armed man running around my house I am, assuming I need to use force to defend my life in a manner perscribed by state law, going to dispatch him as quickly as possible until he poses no threat.  I imagine I'll shoot a few rounds and either hit him or get him to run away.   No more than 5-6 shots in any case.   3. What are you going to do with the rifle?  Where will the threat appear?  When will you first see it?What is the range that the threat will appear?   To what degree are we going to do NRA highpower type shooting?   To what degree are you going to be doing "practical rifle" type CQB shooting?   In my case, I don't anticipate seeing the threat any further than 100yd. away from me.   -  Beyond 100yds. I don't anticipate being able to distinguish threat from non-threat (i.e. they won't be openly brandishing weapons yelling ay me from 100+yd. away looking to start a fight).   I doubt that there's anyway I could justify shooting a dude over 100yds. from me in court - it's just too far.   - Beyond 100yds., I don't think I can consistently hit a MOVING, potentially camoflagued, man sized target that might be shooting back at me, especially after it goes scrambling after the first shot.   So, I don't expect to engage an enemy further than 100yd., and I think in my case that I will engage him at a substantially shorter range. Based on all this, I don't think we'll be doing any NRA-highpower shooting, and any shooting I get will be closer to "practical shooting".  The rifle then will be used to hit human targets - ONLY when my life is in clear and serious danger, in a situation where I am willing to justify it before the court as a justifiable homicide- at a range of 100yd.   4. What kind of ammo do I want? AFAIC, at ranges where the 5.56 XM193 doesn't fragment, and where the 5.56 will fully penetrate the human body (that is 150yd to 500 yd.), 7.62 M80 is no different from 5.56 XM193 or XM855 except in that it makes a 2.06mm wider hole.   I accept Fackler's methodology of wound ballistics; the extra 2.06mm makes it only a tiny bit more capable of hitting the CNS.  Thus, regardless of the round, if I don't get a good CNS-hitting shot I'll need to take a second (or, more likely, the target will shoot back at me and go running, dashing all subsequent chances I have to hit with anything more than luck).       Now, if we're talking about Hornady TAP or Black Hills ammo with the 7Xgr. .223s and 155gr./168/175 308s, that's a different story about lethality.  However, I think that, based on a good hit, a .223 will be sufficient for just about any purpose anywhere from 1-300yd., and that a 308 may not get you significantly better results.   But that's just my opnion.   So, what rifle do I want? AFAIC, it's just a matter of preference.  I don't think there's anything inherent to either system that makes it better than the other for the scenarios I listed.   So, the question is, do I like the FAL or the 6920 for CQB?  In my case, the recoil in the FAL is much greater than the AR, to the point that CQB training (to say nothing of combat performance) is much easier with the AR.  I also like the fact that it's lighter.  I don't like the fact that it doesn't have a real folding stock.   So, I chose the 6920.  Your preferences may be different.   BTW - NICE setup, DarkNite!!!!

heck of a detailed answer there, nice work.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I guess I'm posting it here to get the opinions of the AR/M4 crowd for the M4/AR Vs the Para Fal. My thoughts on ParaFAL vs. M4 - based on my previous thinking on this:...... 3. What are you going to do with the rifle? Where will the threat appear? When will you first see it?What is the range that the threat will appear? To what degree are we going to do NRA highpower type shooting? To what degree are you going to be doing "practical rifle" type CQB shooting? ..... So, I chose the 6920.  Your preferences may be different.   BTW - NICE setup, DarkNite!!!! heck of a detailed answer there, nice work.

All that is fine but when you dont know whats going to happen the FAL is a better all around rifle.

Thats the point you dont know whats going to happen.
You dont know what range you have to shoot at - 20yards or 700+yards.
You dont know what you will be shooting at - animal, people or cars....
You dont know the environment - thick brush, large flat field 600+ yards...

If I know the SHTF scenarios then I may want a bolt gun or AR or shotgun.
Ask yourself if you had one rifle to pick from that would fit most of the SHTF scenarios you will conclude the FAL over the M4.

Quoted: I'm thinking of changing my SHTF main battle rifle from an AR/M4 to a Para FAL I like the way you think... www.hunt101.com/img/384287-big.jpg

Damn fine rifle bro, if you havent done so already you should post this in the FAL rifle thread in the Armory.

Quoted: ETA: I'd still go with the para-FAL for reliability, parts availibility, mags. As far as accuracy goes it's more then accurate enough for just about any SHTF situation.  Some here act like the accuracy difference between the AR10 and FAL is as vast as that between the AR15 and AK47.]

In some cases it is... I have seen some FALS (STG58s) shoot as well an any AR and I have seen alot of FALs (Imbel and Inch) shoot like an AK. But if you are talking about a DSA FAl tthen I think you will be okay.


I'd still take an Armalite over any FAL...

Quoted: Damn you guys your making this difficult! Now I'm thinking I should stay with my M1A and get a SAGE stock for it.

Im thinking the same.  If you need to have another platform, go with a AR10.

Quoted: para fal. the only way to go, i mean do you real want to trust your life to a mouse gun. these poodle shooters seem to not understand the awesome power of the 7.62 nato compared to the 5.56. the Fal's reliable and toughness is well known, can't saw the same for the ar now can you. flame redarant suit on and checked for holes

what round/loading are you using to achieve this "awesome power"?

Quoted: flame redarant suit on and checked for holes

That's funny.  Better check the certification dates on your seat belt too.  This could get bumpy.


Thinking back on Katrina, it was about 4 months prior to the huricane that I was explaining to the wife why I was spending money on a couple long guns (FAL and SLP).  These would be the first of my long gun collection.  Not that my reasoning fell on deaf ears, but I could see the skepticism.  SHTF this, SHTF that.  It was only because she's lived with my personality for so long that she just shrugged it off.  

Things that I talked about came true 4 months later, just not in my city.  It did show my theories held water.  
In Kuwait, two US contractors were ambushed at a stoplight in 2002.  I saw it coming about 5 months earlier (they tried to pull it off without using the stoplight but no one would stop) I saw this action and reported it immediately as a possible ambush.  My warnings to the security force fell on deaf ears (this is prior to us crossing the border to Iraq so they dismissed me as over cautious).  The shooters learned from their fist attempt, that no one will stop, so they moved their ambush to someplace we would have to stop at.  The first stop light on the way to the nearest McDonalds.  They hit the contractors car from a 45 degree angle off the right front, while hiding in a large hedgerow.  One dead, one severely wounded.  They were older (obvious non military) and unarmed.  Shooters fled to Saudi.

Here's another SHTF scenario that you might not even realize is a SHTF event.  Nationwide Comercial truck driver strike.  How long before your local grociery stores runs out of stock?  Without resupply, 3 days.   What happens after 3 days?  Think about it for a minute.  No food in the grociery stores, any of them, after the 4th day.

How much food do you have stored in your house on any given day?  I have powdered milk and a bread maker along with a stand up freezer outside for bulk storage of meat and frozen veggies.  That's just "normal" SOP for my house, we live in the city.  We usually shop every 3 weeks.  What happens if the stike happens on our 3rd week and we are pretty low?  Don't leave your dog outside.  

How does this relate to this thread?   Katrina caused mass looting and chaos.  Instead of  looking for name brand pants and big screen TV's, they will be looting for food.  A dangerous situation because your talking about your basic essentials.  I've read a few accounts of armed civilians able to protect their property only because they were armed.  Just showing the rifle was enough to repell potential thieves.

Sounds like science fiction huh?  My other theories and What If's were science fiction too, until they were proved to be non-fiction.  Katrina made my wife a "believer" in my crazy, wacked out ideas.  

Back to the M4 vs. FAL.  One other thing to consider is muzzle blast and pressure.  The difference of the 5.56 and 7.62 in muzzle blast inside a room.  Of course, if you are still inside your house you can grab whatever you have.  Once you're outside this isn't of much concern.  

You can muzzle brake an FAL to reduce the recoil to "extremely mild", but it does increase the volume and felt pressure when shooting indoors.   I think for the average SHTF Theorist (SHTFT from now on), the M4 is a better choice.  If you have the time and ammo to train on the FAL to the same proficiency, then the tables turn.


I'm sure I'll get "Trolled" on this post, but I don't care.  My point is, a SHTF event doesn't have to be civil war, nuke attack or flying bombs.  Proficiency with any rifle should be accompanied with common sense and a little foresight.

Did someone already say to get both?

I've been following this thread since I'm a big fan of both the AR and FAL.

Although it might make  sense to have two rifles of the same caliber and maybe even same make/model for SHTF needs, I have both an AR15 and an FAL.

My AR15 is a shorty Bushmaster with Aimpoint and Surefire light. She runs 100% and is too much fun. Can't say enough good things about the Aimpoint.

My FAL is an all Imbel with some DSA parts, full length chrome lined barrel and sometimes wears a ARMS scope mount with a Nikon 4x scope. The FAL (scoped) will shoot between 1.5 and 2 MOA using Winchester 150gr. Silver Tips. The trigger is pretty heavy, even for an FAL, so I'm going to get something done about that soon. I'm also hoping to get a "para" stock for it next year.

I did have 2 AR's but traded one away and some other stuff, so I could have a FAL once again. I have an emotional thing for FAL's due to reading SOF at an impressionable age.

I guess if there is a point to my post here it would be to save your money, keep your AR and get an FAL as well. I managed to do it and I'm on a pretty tight budget. Either rifle will serve you well but each one has it's own merits as already mentioned.

For most of us a SHTF event is not going to happen (I hope) so your just going to end up shooting for fun and maybe do some training. So you might as well enjoy some variety. Get both.

Be safe,

Flyer

Quoted: Thats the point you dont know whats going to happen.

I disagree completely.  You do have some idea.

You dont know what range you have to shoot at - 20yards or 700+yards.

I just have to look at history AND the law.

Legally It's going to be near impossible to justify a 100y shot, let alone a 700y shot under any conditions. (BTW how do you deterimine if someons a threat at 700y? - 2nd question how do you HIT a moving target at 700y when you'r standing offhand because you sure aint' going to see him when you're prone).

Now looking to recent history I can see most firefights occur at ranges of 100y or less, this has been shown to be true over the last 100years including in the current conflicts in the Middle East.  It's a very rare shot that is over 300M, and then again it's usually a Sniper that is doing it.

You dont know what you will be shooting at - animal, people or cars....

Why would I shoot at a car?  Is it rabid or something?  For defense or hunting the 5.56 suffices.

You dont know the environment - thick brush, large flat field 600+ yards...

Well I don't know where you live, but around here we have these things called 'Windows'.  These magic devices let us see what the outside looks like.  After that we have these things called 'shoes' which allows us to walk around the 'outside' and let us see what it looks like.

As such I know what my enviroment looks like, I know where I I go (and since I had these 'Windows' installed on my vehicle I get to see what the environment looks like on the way as well as when I get there).

My envirment may not be the same as yours.  But I'll prepare for where I live, you prepare where you live.  And if you don't know where you live/work then I'd suggest visiting the doctor for some nice anti-psychotic medications.

Ask yourself if you had one rifle to pick from that would fit most of the SHTF scenarios you will conclude the FAL over the M4.

Nope I dumped by FAL years ago for an AR becaues I'm not a Walter-Mitty type with delusions of 600y shots and that I would forever maintain the same body I had when I was in uniform.

.

Quoted: Quoted: Thats the point you dont know whats going to happen. I disagree completely.  You do have some idea. For me a SHTF scenario could be a dirty bomb, tsunami, black out or riots, so I have some idea but its not enough of an idea to pick a mission specific rifle. You dont know what range you have to shoot at - 20yards or 700+yards. I just have to look at history AND the law. Legally It's going to be near impossible to justify a 100y shot, let alone a 700y shot under any conditions. (BTW how do you deterimine if someons a threat at 700y? - 2nd question how do you HIT a moving target at 700y when you'r standing offhand because you sure aint' going to see him when you're prone). You mean like the guys in Afghanistan! Im sure they would rather have the M14 for those long range shots requiring 77gr 223 rds. You mean to tell me that our solders practice 300+ yrd shots for nothing Now looking to recent history I can see most firefights occur at ranges of 100y or less, this has been shown to be true over the last 100years including in the current conflicts in the Middle East.  It's a very rare shot that is over 300M, and then again it's usually a Sniper that is doing it. You are talking about war and if you cant hit a person size target at 300 yards you need practice, much more practice. 300yards for any average shooter is not far at all. You dont know what you will be shooting at - animal, people or cars.... Why would I shoot at a car?  Is it rapid or something?  For defense or hunting the 5.56 suffices. You seem to be missing the point too. This is just an example, but in a SHTF scenario you may need to hunt large game or defend yourself from large game. In that case the 308 is better. There are mission specific cases where I would pick the M4 over the FAL but the FAL in general is more versatile. One example to pick an M4 over the FAL is during war where you may encounter many human targets and need to carry large amounts of ammo. Also, you'll have the support needed to take care of your M4 which requires more maintenance. In SHTF scenarios you may not have the support and a more durable rifle is a better rifle. You dont know the environment - thick brush, large flat field 600+ yards... Well I don't know where you live, but around here we have these things called 'Windows'.  These magic devices let us see what the outside looks like.  After that we have these things called 'shoes' which allows us to walk around the 'outside' and let us see what it looks like. I'm sure you will still disagree but don't be a dick about it. Only constructive points are welcome here. Otherwise, post elsewhere! As such I know what my enviroment looks like, I know where I I go (and since I had these 'Windows' installed on my vehicle I get to see what the environment looks like on the way as well as when I get there). You never know where you will end up and the environment can change. Again this favors an FAL because its more versatile. If you want to look at recent history look at New Orleans. They didn't know what was going to happen and they didn't know what environment they would be moving to. So, stop being so close minded and concrete. My envirment may not be the same as yours.  But I'll prepare for where I live, you prepare where you live.  And if you don't know where you live/work then I'd suggest visiting the doctor for some nice anti-psychotic medications. Ask yourself if you had one rifle to pick from that would fit most of the SHTF scenarios you will conclude the FAL over the M4. Nope I dumped by FAL years ago for an AR becaues I'm not a Walter-Mitty type with delusions of 600y shots and that I would forever maintain the same body I had when I was in uniform.

With your attitude you must not have been an officer. You sound like a very low ranking antiwar/anti-American type. Again, go elsewhere with you sarcasm. I only want constructive criticism here!

Get the FAL, duh! Ar is great for any thing under 200yds. If you are going to shot at any thing over 200yds with your Ar then get a FAL.

The FAL is a rifle.
The M16A1(A2) is a carbine.
The M4 is a really really good sub gun with longer range.

Quoted: Get the FAL, duh! Ar is great for any thig under 200yds. If you are going to shot at any thing over 200yds with your Ar then get a FAL.

Already have an AR and will be getting an FAL, but in a SHTF case I'm grabbing an FAL

Quoted: You mean like the guys in Afghanistan! Im sure they would rather have the M14 for those long range shots requiring 77gr 223 rds. You mean to tell me that our solders practice 300+ yrd shots for nothing

 See that is the walt mitty fantasy comming out.
Those are SOLDIERS who have rules of engagement and are engaging an enemy who has things like PKMs.  They have terrain issues and things like M60s/M249s, 80mm mortars, 155 Howizers and CAS.  They do not have to answer for every bullet they fired in a battle - as a civilian you WILL.

Fighting a battle in a mountainside has nothing to do with a civilian who had to deal with Tsunamie, hurricanes, or riots.  Look to Katrina, the LA Riots, or the battle for Bagdad as more closely representing what a person will face.

You are talking about war and if you cant hit a person size target at 300 yards you need practice, much more practice. 300yards for any average shooter is not far at all.

No you need to get a clue.  Hitting a target that is 300M away when nobody is shooting at you and the target is all exposed "see me" is VERY different from trying to hit somebody who is moving, using cover and shooting at you.

Get into a good prone positon for your 300-400m shot; now how far can you see?  Micro terrain rules and 300M is a 'long shot' due to terrain and vegetation.  At Quantico they have  a nice pop up range with targets to 500M.  If you go prone you won't even see the ones at 200M thanks to the grass and other vegetation.

Also have you ever run a US Army qualification course?  If you have you'd find out there are only  four 300m shots, and you can still miss all 4 and make expert.  So no it's not particulary stresed in the Army they realize it's going to be a rare shot.

You seem to be missing the point too. This is just an example, but in a SHTF scenario you may need to hunt large game or defend yourself from large game.

Really - is Maryland (or any part of the East Coast) suddenly going to be populated by Rapid Grizzley Bears or something?  Or do you consider white-tail deer to be 'large game'?

In that case the 308 is better.

Screw that - If I lived in a area where 'Large/Dangerous' game lived I'd rather have a .45-70 or a 12 gauge with slugs rather than that .308 pop-gun.

One example to pick an M4 over the FAL is during war where you may encounter many human targets and need to carry large amounts of ammo.

Or like say in a Riot sitation where you're likely to be an in urban or suburban area....

Also, you'll have the support needed to take care of your M4 which requires more maintenance.

Funny I've noted no maintenace differences between a M4 and a FAL.  Though I do note working on an M4 is far easier.

In SHTF scenarios you may not have the support and a more durable rifle is a better rifle.

I am my own support.  Unlike an FAL an AR is much easier to work on if there is a problem.  And unlike Para-FALs the parts are far more available (especially in the US).

I'm sure you will still disagree but don't be a dick about it. Only constructive points are welcome here. Otherwise, post elsewhere!

Hey Newb - make me

You never know where you will end up

Well unless the Aliens or the Enterprise suddenly beam me up and transport me elsewhere I always know where I am and where I'm going.  (it's fun being the adult you get to pick the places you want to go).

and the environment can change.

Short of a a few hundred nukes my area won't be chaning.  And in case of a few hundred nukes I won't be around to see it.

Again this favors an FAL because its more versatile.

Again point not proven - that is a statement of opinion.

If you want to look at recent history look at New Orleans. They didn't know what was going to happen and they didn't know what environment they would be moving to.

Lots of problems with this statement.
1) If you stayed in NO you knew exactly the type of environment you would have.
2) If you evacuated you could choose your destination and bring your rifle with you.  If you were at ALL interested in true preparedness you'd already have a destination (or 3) ready for you and your choice of rifle.
3) If you were being forced to evactuate then you already screwed up and it doesn't matter what type of rifle you have you're too stupid understand the situation and you're already behind the power curve and will continue to do so.
4) If you were forced onto public transportation (or went to the evac shelters/ralley points) then again it doesn't matter what kind of rifle you have because the authorities will take it from you.  Now you're at some paper-pusher's mercy and devoid of your FAL because you didn't have the brains to bug-out in time or have a bug-out location setup well in advance.

So, stop being so close minded and concrete

I'm a realist, I prepare for what is possible and likely.  You seem to have walt-mitty fantasy that you will pick up your FAL fight hordes of terrists in the mountains all while escaping last minute from a disaster area - with no discernable place to go.

Ask yourself if you had one rifle to pick from that would fit most of the SHTF scenarios you will conclude the FAL over the M4.

I already asked this over a decade ago.  I sold my FAL and got an AR.

What is going to matter to most people:
1) Availablitly of parts and ammo.
2) Ability to use/carry the weapon even when tired.
3) Abiltiy of a significant other (with lesser strength) to use the weapon in the event you are injured.
4) Issues of overpenetration when shooting in urban/suburban environments (where I and most of the US population live)

With your attitude you must not have been an officer. You sound like a very low ranking antiwar/anti-American type.

Uh yeah that's me.  What are you like 15 or something?  

Hey Newb - make me



That's mature and constructive.
I'll be ignoring you now

Quoted: In some cases it is... I have seen some FALS (STG58s) shoot as well an any AR and I have seen alot of FALs (Imbel and Inch) shoot like an AK. But if you are talking about a DSA FAl tthen I think you will be okay. I'd still take an Armalite over any FAL...

I've had a M1A and sold it.

I have an AR-10.  It sits in the safe most of the time.

I'm working on FAL #3.

Unlike an AR-10 the FAL has something going for it called being battle tested.  Adopted by over 90 countries versus one (Sudan?) for the AR-10.  And the mag the current Armalite AR-10 has is not up to snuff in my book and costs $40 while I can get new, flawless FAL mags for under $10.

Both my FALs shoot ~1.5 MOA with surplus ammo.  More than accurate for my needs.  And my FALs are hands down the most reliable battle rifles I have ever had.

The only downsides to the FAL I see are...

(1)  weight:  If you want any .308 battle rifle you're going to have to accept this.  That being said my Para (with lightened Type II receiver and aluminum para lower with lightening cuts) is two pounds lighter than one built on a Type III receiver and Imbel steel para lower and less than two pounds heavier than my M-4.  Ammo is heavier.  Oh well, that's the price I pay for greatly-improved cover penetration.

(2)  iron sights:  the FAL could use better iron sights.  But they're as good or better than your typical M-4 BUIS setup and I run mine with optics.

(3)  fragile mags:  metric FALs have a weakness in their pressed front lug.  But compared to AR mags these things are the Rock of Gibralter.  I have never had a mag-induced failure in a FAL.  Can't say that about my M-4.

(4)  ergonomics:  Your standard FAL requires monkey-thumbs to flick the selector.  Once I added a SAW grip and an extended selector to my Para I found it easier to use than my M-4!  Bolt hold open is quite accessible.  Although the mag well is rock-and-lock I find mag changes to be more sure with a FAL than an M-1A and as quick as an AK.

Is a FAL better than an M-4?  It depends.  For me and my perceived operations area I like having the extra punch of 7.62mm.  I don't doubt the effectiveness or lethality of 5.56mm but in my case the 7.62mm FAL is the better platform.

If you want a semi .308 get one (however I'd wait and see how the new RRAs work out, they seem like a pretty sweet deal). However unless you just don't like the AR platform (and BRD has not set in) keep your M4. Otherwise you'll probably wind up buying another one down the road. If you can't afford both right now save up till you can pay cash for the new gun, or get a second job to support you habbit (thats what i do).

Now my .02 on a SHTF choice. I am currently in the process of trading my SA M1A for a triked out LMT M4. Why? Because .308 ammo is damn heavy and if I have to hoof it I want as many rounds as possible. A .22 conversion is light and gives you greater food gathering capability (ever hit a squirrel or rabit with a .308?). 5.56 ball is more readily accessable around here than .308. In the quantities I like to keep on hand, hunting ammo is not an option (to damn expensive). Also my wife doesn't like anything with more kick than a 5.56 and I plan on getting her a lefty version of the same gun I'm carrieing for parts compatability, familiarity, etc. As far as big game defense goes a shotty with slugs will serve you pretty well and is pretty cheap (under 150 for a pump with some miles on it), a big bore handgun would also work well for this. As far as long distance engagement with a .308, your gonna want optics, you're gun want at least MOA preformance and you're gonna want good ammo (read not surpluss). For me the cheapest percision .308 would be a bolt gun, like a Savage 110  with some nice glass or spend a bit more and get a Remmington PSS. If they are over 300 yards away the time it takes to throw a bolt shouldn't be too much of a hinderance.
If you think you will have to move on foot if the SHTF and not stay in one place (wich is always a possibility), then weigh the FAL and X number of rounds of ammo, then weigh an M4 with the same nubmer rounds. The difference in weight will be that much stuff you will not be able to take with you. Now lets say you also plan on taking a .22 for small game, weigh that against a AR conversion bolt. That much less stuff you can take.
As far as wich is a better round for large game in North America? 30-06, 7mm Remington Mag, 12 Ga. slug, etc.. If bear etc. are really a concern I would not be comfortable with a .308.

Quoted: This is getting really close to irrelevant.

Oh it was irrelvant from post 1.

This is just slinging BS to 'justify' buying another rifle.

My shtf gun is tyhe Fal.I have a DSA light weight carbine.Which started life as a parts gun ,it was put together by a gunsmith.It fills all the needs of a light weight carbine.

Quoted: That's mature and constructive. I'll be ignoring you now

and I quote:

Quoted:
You sound like a very low ranking antiwar/anti-American type.


Hello Mr (foreign weapon using) Pot, meet Mr (I'll take an AR-15) Kettle.

However, for fun, I will address one of your opinions.

Again this favors an FAL because its more versatile.

Ok the FAL Para is one trick pony.  It's not that it's a bad rifle (it isn't it is a darn good one - especially when stoked with 155gr TAP) but it IS does have its issues:
1) Parts,  The Para uses a different stock, bolt carrier and recevier cover than the far more common FAL.  Most AR stocks are fairly common and you can get parts for them at any gunshow or dozens of vendors.  I should also point out the AR telestock has options for a better cheek weld, storage of batteries, and is adjustable for length of pull for the user and their clothing/gear.

2) Maintenance.  FALs headspace via a pin in the receiver.  They have different width pins to adjust headspacing.  If your headspacing gets worn do you have a set of spares and know how to use them?  With the AR you just drop in a new bolt (easy to find & get) and 99% of the time you're good to go.  What about using up a barrel?  Anybody with tools can change an AR-15 barrel and have the rifle running in no time.  Can't say the same about FALs.

3) Training.  This is one of the big issues.  With the AR you can use cheap ($110/1000) Wolf for training & classes.  Not to mention the low recoil of the AR means you don't get beat up as much during training allowing you to train more.  I'd also point out with the AR you can get a .22 conversion kit for really cheap practice and you can run the rifle on ranges that don't allow rifle cartridges.  It's weight is also not fun when attending classes.

4) Versatility.  The .308 is it, you can't swap uppers (uppers in a FAL is the part that is considered the firearm).  The .308 is nice for personell and medium sized game, but has it's limits on other animals.  For example you can't hunt small game with your FAL.  If you SHTF scenario is so bad your relying on hunting to survive than small game is gonna be more adbundant and easier to find.  Pop in that .22 conversion kit and you've got bunnies, squirrles, and birds.  Need to hunt larger stuff that the .308 is marginal for?  No problem if you've got a .50 AE, .449, or .458 upper (it's like having a semi-auto .45-70), or for the truley crazed a .50 BMG upper (whale hunting off the Pacific Coast!!).  I can go from a sub moa SPR to a short 11" CQB carbine with the push of 2 pins.  Want versatility I can mount any optic I'd desire on an AR - how many optic mounts are available for the Para FALs?  How about railed handguards?  Darn few and they make the already heavy FAL even heavier.

See this can get silly quickly.  The fact is the AR is the worlds most versitile weapon platform hence why it has survived so long as the front line weapon for the worlds premier military.

5) Accuracy. Still want to do those 600y shots?  Dollars to donughts you're not likely to hit them with an FAL - especially the carbine variant.  FALs are not known for their accuracy.  ARs on the other hand rule at Camp Perry.  A larger cartridge doesn't help if the rifle isn't accurate enough, at least with an AR the rifle IS capable even in carbine form of making those kind of shots if the shooter is up to it.  Need more range?  The people that make the 6.5 Grendle upper for the AR indicate it's capable of accurate 1000y shots, try that with a FAL.

The fact is choice of a weapon is far down on the list of importance when the SHTF, heck even when you get to the 'gunfighting stuff' selection of a particular weapon/caliber is far less important than mindset or training.  I'll take a level headed well trained person with a 10/22 over any uber keyboard commando with an FAL/AK/AR anyday.  Weapons should be selected based on individual needs and situations, not on a walt-mitty/Rambo fantasy of holding off hordes in the mountains.  To paraphrase Pat Rogers "Mission drives the equipment".

Quoted: Ok the FAL Para is one trick pony.  It's not that it's a bad rifle (it isn't it is a darn good one - especially when stoked with 155gr TAP) but it IS does have its issues: 1) Parts,  The Para uses a different stock, bolt carrier and recevier cover than the far more common FAL.  Most AR stocks are fairly common and you can get parts for them at any gunshow or dozens of vendors.  I should also point out the AR telestock has options for a better cheek weld, storage of batteries, and is adjustable for length of pull for the user and their clothing/gear. It's amazing how adaptable to WECSOG parts fabrication the FAL is.  I've seen several people with lots of FAL experience, including 'Gunplumber' Mark Graham, comment on just how rare parts breakage is in these rifles.  That being said if I live long enough to wear out my FAL and the spare parts I have for it I'd be amazed. 2) Maintenance.  FALs headspace via a pin in the receiver.  They have different width pins to adjust headspacing.  If your headspacing gets worn do you have a set of spares and know how to use them?  With the AR you just drop in a new bolt (easy to find & get) and 99% of the time you're good to go.  What about using up a barrel?  Anybody with tools can change an AR-15 barrel and have the rifle running in no time.  Can't say the same about FALs. Replacing a barrel will probably require a new locking shoulder.  It's a pin that any decent machinist with a lathe can make if necessary, I've seen it done.  As for barrels I suppose that could be an issue somewhere down the line.  With the current import ban we'll need to wait for the domestic market to step up.  Again if this is a SHTF situation and I live long enough to wear out a barrel I'd be amazed.  And then go to my M-4, since I'd probably be in a walker by then!   3) Training.  This is one of the big issues.  With the AR you can use cheap ($110/1000) Wolf for training & classes.  Not to mention the low recoil of the AR means you don't get beat up as much during training allowing you to train more.  I'd also point out with the AR you can get a .22 conversion kit for really cheap practice and you can run the rifle on ranges that don't allow rifle cartridges.  It's weight is also not fun when attending classes. Surplus .308 is cheaper than most .223 these days.  I don't put Wolf in my AR, though I'll try the new Privi Partizan stuff.  I've got lots squirreled away, too.  Otherwise since I chose the FAL I train with the FAL.  Would an AR be 'easier'?  Probably a bit.  How much does that matter?  Not much. 4) Versatility.  The .308 is it, you can't swap uppers (uppers in a FAL is the part that is considered the firearm).  The .308 is nice for personell and medium sized game, but has it's limits on other animals.  For example you can't hunt small game with your FAL.  If you SHTF scenario is so bad your relying on hunting to survive than small game is gonna be more adbundant and easier to find.  Pop in that .22 conversion kit and you've got bunnies, squirrles, and birds.  Need to hunt larger stuff that the .308 is marginal for?  No problem if you've got a .50 AE, .449, or .458 upper (it's like having a semi-auto .45-70), or for the truley crazed a .50 BMG upper (whale hunting off the Pacific Coast!!).  I can go from a sub moa SPR to a short 11" CQB carbine with the push of 2 pins.  Want versatility I can mount any optic I'd desire on an AR - how many optic mounts are available for the Para FALs?  How about railed handguards?  Darn few and they make the already heavy FAL even heavier. See this can get silly quickly.  The fact is the AR is the worlds most versitile weapon platform hence why it has survived so long as the front line weapon for the worlds premier military. Being able to swap uppers is nice, I'll admit.  The price of an upper is only a bit less than the price of an entire rifle, though.  However there are many scope mounts and a rail system available for the FAL.  I don't find the rail system much heavier than the standard handguards. 5) Accuracy. Still want to do those 600y shots?  Dollars to donughts you're not likely to hit them with an FAL - especially the carbine variant.  FALs are not known for their accuracy.  ARs on the other hand rule at Camp Perry.  A larger cartridge doesn't help if the rifle isn't accurate enough, at least with an AR the rifle IS capable even in carbine form of making those kind of shots if the shooter is up to it.  Need more range?  The people that make the 6.5 Grendle upper for the AR indicate it's capable of accurate 1000y shots, try that with a FAL. I've always been a fan of accurate rifles.  My FAL Para is shoots about 1.5 MOA with surplus ammo, which is more than adequate for its' carbine role.  It's iron sights are set for 150 and 250 meters and that's well within, to use your term, 'Walter Mitty' range.  I like to use the right tool for the job and I'd be just as loathe to take a 600 meter shot with an M-4 shooting as I would with my Para. The fact is choice of a weapon is far down on the list of importance when the SHTF, heck even when you get to the 'gunfighting stuff' selection of a particular weapon/caliber is far less important than mindset or training.  I'll take a level headed well trained person with a 10/22 over any uber keyboard commando with an FAL/AK/AR anyday.  Weapons should be selected based on individual needs and situations, not on a walt-mitty/Rambo fantasy of holding off hordes in the mountains.  To paraphrase Pat Rogers "Mission drives the equipment". Agreed.

Please don't see this as an arguement against the M-4.  Mine is a fine and valued rifle.  But for SHTF, at least the likely outcomes in my AO, make the FAL Para (as I've spec'd mine) the better choice.

This thread is going nowhere.

Anyway, if you've seen the War of the Worlds, would you use 308 or 223?

M4 is nice if it's equipped with selective fire.  This is where M4 design really shines.  If not, a single 308 will deliver better punch and penetration.  This was the reason I went the FAL way.

More limitations on M4: no buttstroke capability.  No bayonet capability.

as long as we're turning this into a real peeing contest....why not get an AK instead of a FAL?

Sorry, I know I am an ass to even throw that in.

DarkNite good point about the sights but you can always use an AimPoint or a lighter Doc Optic

EXCATM76 you make some good points too. A .22 conversion is light and gives you greater food gathering capability (ever hit a squirrel or rabbit with a .308?). 5.56 ball is more readily accessible around here than .308. I didn't think of these points. Well, there is some points for the M4 over the FAL.

You guys are making this very hard to decide.

I have the AR, M1A, Moss 590A1, Sig, 3rd gen NV, armor, thousands of 223/308/40cal ammo and gear, but don't have an FAL. I guess a para Fal is the next rifle. Oh, I forgot I don't have a bolt gun either. OK 2 more rifles I need.

But really, I was just wondering what I should have my gear set up for and it came down to the FAL or AR. Nevertheless, I will have it set up to take both types of mags and decide which I will take when the SHTF scenario happens. That way I can make it mission specific.

Quoted: as long as we're turning this into a real peeing contest....why not get an AK instead of a FAL? Sorry, I know I am an ass to even throw that in.

Oh $hit! Now you've done it.
I guess I need 3 more rifles

Quoted: as long as we're turning this into a real peeing contest....why not get an AK instead of a FAL?

Only reason not to is that domestic ammunition production of 7.62x39 is weak.  With a stroke of the PEN the POTUS (or heck the guys writing the regs at the BATFE) can ban ammo importation.  This applies to rifle parts as well.

But, if all your buddies run AKs, and your emergency plan is hang with them or bug out to their house - then having an AK would be a smart move (just stock ammo & parts NOW).

Quoted: Quoted: as long as we're turning this into a real peeing contest....why not get an AK instead of a FAL? Only reason not to is that domestic ammunition production of 7.62x39 is weak.  With a stroke of the PEN the POTUS (or heck the guys writing the regs at the BATFE) can ban ammo importation.  This applies to rifle parts as well. But, if all your buddies run AKs, and your emergency plan is hang with them or bug out to their house - then having an AK would be a smart move (just stock ammo & parts NOW).

that's the key. With a couple thousand rounds stockpiled you ought to be good, even if ammo becomes scarce. Truthfully, I can't see any SHTF scenario that would require more than 2000 rounds of ammo. But that is just me........

Quoted: Quoted: as long as we're turning this into a real peeing contest....why not get an AK instead of a FAL? Sorry, I know I am an ass to even throw that in. Oh $hit! Now you've done it. I guess I need 3 more rifles

If you don't have an AK, I would really advise you to pick one up. No arsenal is complete without at least one.

Search my EE AK Rifle section

You mean 7.62 AK or 5.45 AK?

You guys been missing on the 5.45 poison bullet

Quoted: If you don't have an AK, I would really advise you to pick one up. No arsenal is complete without at least one.

Quoted: I can't see any SHTF scenario that would require more than 2000 rounds of ammo. But that is just me........

Not so much SHTF (unless you have a LOT of looters LOL!) but as a hedge against an import ban until domestic production could ramp up to meet demand.  I'd assume you'd still want to practice with your chosen arm should they ever decide to ban ammo imports.

Quoted: Quoted: I can't see any SHTF scenario that would require more than 2000 rounds of ammo. But that is just me........ Not so much SHTF (unless you have a LOT of looters LOL!) but as a hedge against an import ban until domestic production could ramp up to meet demand.  I'd assume you'd still want to practice with your chosen arm should they ever decide to ban ammo imports.

Yeah, you're right, I'm trying to stockpile AK ammo for just that reason.

Quoted: Search my EE AK Rifle section You mean 7.62 AK or 5.45 AK? You guys been missing on the 5.45 poison bullet Quoted: If you don't have an AK, I would really advise you to pick one up. No arsenal is complete without at least one.

+1, maybe my favorite rifle round to shoot. Too bad 5.45 has been so hard to find for the last few months....

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: as long as we're turning this into a real peeing contest....why not get an AK instead of a FAL? Sorry, I know I am an ass to even throw that in. Oh $hit! Now you've done it. I guess I need 3 more rifles If you don't have an AK, I would really advise you to pick one up. No arsenal is complete without at least one.

I had 5 or 6 in the past and they were fun but would rather have the FAL.
The AK is just not accurate enough for me. The only one I really liked, of 3 MAK90s, SAR1, SAR2, WASR, was the SLR95. I guess I could go for a VEPR but as stated before the ammo may become hard to find. I dont like the right side CH and the fact there isn't a bolt hold open or release. With an M1A or FAL you can have a bolt release.

Great! Now you have me thinking of a VEPR in 223 or 308.
Where does it end?!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: as long as we're turning this into a real peeing contest....why not get an AK instead of a FAL? Sorry, I know I am an ass to even throw that in. Oh $hit! Now you've done it. I guess I need 3 more rifles If you don't have an AK, I would really advise you to pick one up. No arsenal is complete without at least one. I had 5 or 6 in the past and they were fun but would rather have the FAL. The AK is just not accurate enough for me. The only one I really liked, of 3 MAK90s, SAR1, SAR2, WASR, was the SLR95. I guess I could go for a VEPR but as stated before the ammo may become hard to find. I dont like the right side CH and the fact there isn't a bolt hold open or release. With an M1A or FAL you can have a bolt release. Great! Now you have me thinking of a VEPR in 223 or 308. Where does it end?!

sorry, man.....I feel your pain. If you want an AK in .223, look for one of the milled Arsenal versions. They are harder to find these days, but are around. Much, much nicer than an SAR or WASR,and very accurate and (of course) reliable. Plus, with an Arsenal you get the traditonal AK look.....I personally don't like the look of the VEPR.

A FAL in my choice and here's why.....Ol' Dirty.....  in the SHTF scenario I don't think an AR based weapon could be counted on to be as reliable and as an effective weapon for self preservation and for living off the land. For the inexperienced the original FAL sights or accuracy sucks and the weapon & ammo is heavier but upgrading the rear sight or having a scope then using a dog or little red wagon to haul your MBR/ammo while traveling on foot great distances away from your bunker and supplies eliminates those concerns.  

   For a SHTF MBR I think more concern should be placed on whether or not it is going to be effective enough to drop/stop a human or bear/big game animal or disable/stop a vechile while conserving ammo, will it operate realibly in all enviorments and weather conditions and how much use/punishment will it take before failure occurs or it just wears out completely.

Quoted: A FAL in my choice and here's why.....Ol' Dirty.....  in the SHTF scenario I don't think an AR based weapon could be counted on to be as reliable and as an effective weapon for self preservation and for living off the land. For the inexperienced the original FAL sights or accuracy sucks and the weapon & ammo is heavier but upgrading the rear sight or having a scope then using a dog or little red wagon to haul your MBR/ammo while traveling on foot great distances away from your bunker and supplies eliminates those concerns.      For a SHTF MBR I think more concern should be placed on whether or not it is going to be effective enough to drop/stop a human or bear/big game animal or disable/stop a vechile while conserving ammo, will it operate realibly in all enviorments and weather conditions and how much use/punishment will it take before failure occurs or it just wears out completely.

The fact of the mater is no matter how reliable AR's actually are, you will NEVER see one be able to function in the condition Ol' Dirty is in.

Quoted: I plan on reducing the para stock length by 1 to 1.5 inches.  It's fairly easy to do and it's the main reason I went with the para stock.  Plus, for storage colapsing the stock makes it much shorter (vehicle, suit case etc).

I have a FAL carbine on the way and plan to put a para stock on it. How do you reduce the para stock length? I prefer a short length of pull, something I never liked about my M1A.

I've come to the same conclusion GroundFire has. I'll keep the 6920 around, but I'm thinking a para FAL looks like the best choice FOR ME when it comes to a go-to rifle. I prefer .308 for a variety of reasons, mostly because of its ability to defeat cover. And the para FAL strikes me as an excellent .308 delivery device. Guess I'll see when I get it. I love my M1A, but it has some shortcomings I'm hoping the FAL won't.

I believe every good self reliant household should have the following weapons


CQB styled assault rifle
Full power battle rifle
Combat shotgun
Scoped high power precision rifle
Combat handgun


Now my collection is this

M4fgery with SUIT scope
HK91A2
Mossberg M590A1
Winchestor Model 70
Glock 22
Glock 36
Sig Arms P229 .40

I think I can cover any SHTF senerio with those

OK it looks like the FAL wins overall
Thanks for your input guys