Some hay and wood might not do squat but 6 1/2" of dirt in a box sure took the wind out of the little bullets sails.  After it penetrated the dirt it didn't have enough left to get thru 1 hay bail.  Granted, that's only on a single shot, multi-shots would, no doubt, add to the effect but all in all for a single shot dirt worked very well.    Another thing you have to consider is that I was using cheap Wolf ammo, not mil spec. ammo. I'm sure that made a big difference too.  
 Either way the dirt, hay, boards did what I wanted them to do by stopping the bullet so I could sight in my rifle.  I wasn't looking for a backstop that would take hundreds of hits without penetration, just enough hits to sight in.    
  Having grown up in an era where the 5.56mm was looked down on I have to admit that I have some perjudice against it in favor of a more potent round on the order of the 7.62x51mm or at least the 7.62x39mm.   That's why I also own an AK and wouldn't dream of shooting it at the backstop that I set up for my AR.   I know for darn well that the AK round would have burned right thru the backstop, barn and all.  
   I do plan on picking up a 50gal. plastic trash can and some sand for future shooting sessions because I would like to sight in my AK and a .50cal muzzleloader that I have and want a better backstop for those firearms but this has been interesting none the less and should show that a single round of 5.56 isn't some kind of magic round that'll burn thru a building and still kill an elephant.   It's a varmit round, plain and simple, weather it's has two legs or four it's a varmit round and that's that.  
Talk at ya'll later.  TN.Frank

TNFrank why did you even take a chance by shooting hay bails??  If you are going to own a firearm then be responsible with it.

It was good that you ask here on the forum before doing it but it just goes to show how irresponsible and ignorant you really are since countless people told you not to do it and that is would be unsafe, but you went ahead anyway.

Is it a scarecrow or is it a "Sturdy Tactically Useful Projectile Intercepting Device" (STUPID)– you decide! (Just Kidding)


[img]http://www.csacourses.com/scarecrow.jpg[/img]

The righ to [b]responsibly[/b] keep and bear arm, shall not be infringed...  [rolleyes]

Gotta add those caveats, huh?  

Right to keep [b] responsibly sporting[/b] arms...

Just keep adding caveats until we all give them up.

TRG

First off, star2323, you don't even know me, so to call me irresponsible is being irresponsible on your part.  The fact that I used some kind of backstop, in my view, is being responsible.  Most people I know in this  neck of the wood would just throw out some cans and pop away but I wanted to make sure that I'd get no stray projectiles, that why I put some dirt in a box to help stop the bullets, because all of ya'll didn't think hay alone would work.   I've owned firearms since the age of 14(I'm 42 now) and I've not so much as had an AD or acted in an irresponsible way with them, ever.  
Some of ya'll really need to lighten up a bit.  If you treated a "newbie" like some of you have treated me in some of your posts it wouldn't go very far in making him feel welcome.   I've posted on enough forums to know how to deal with the "jerks" but not everyone understands that some people are just rude and that's how they are. Nothing personel, it's just the way I am.   Thanks to those of you who were a help, maybe together we can figure out some stuff and have some fun with shooting.  Talk at ya'll later.  TN.Frank

Ok maybe I was a little harsh, but reading through the posts, it seamed like everybody was telling you not to do it but you kept saying that it would not be a problem and were still going to do it anyway.

I have shot thru washers/dryers , air conditioners ,and even riding mowers . All were left smoking with BIG exit holes . Looked like Rambo went off in a Sears store .

Now THAT....is some funny shit!  [LOL]
I have an appreciation for dry sarcasm.

Seems to me TNFrank was well aware of what was beyond his target for safety purpose, and just wanted to do a little experiment.  What's the problem?  With all due respect, some of you holier than thou dirt shooters need to lighten up a bit.  It certainly is less dangerous than a bowling ball like I read on another post.  Safety is paramount, but seems to me safety was taken into consideration here.
Something else to consider.....were these 25 lb bales of wheat straw, or 80lb bales of prarie hay or alfalfa?  Major density difference.  Moisture content?  How tight are the bales bound?  Shooting into the face or the side of the bale?  Many variables.
FWIW, I appreciate the experiment and found the thread entertaining.  

If you were only firing about a half dozen rounds to sight in, lets figure they were all in a 6" circle.  or maybe even a little tighter.  Theose rounds sre going to be ripping the hay and beating up the same basice area of the wood behind it.  You shoot the way a bunch of us do at a session you can see how poorly the hay will be doing and the wood not much better.  Dirt will at least be filling in after each shoot.  That hay has the structural integrity of heavy paper.

Be real careful with those cratered pistol targets, craters really tend to cause nasty bounce back at pistol ranges.

I'm always listen to people that tell me what to do, even if they don't know me or the situation I'n in. Hell I should start doing what the libs tell me to do too! Why do I still have all these guns I don't need?

What the heck kind of chance was he taking shooting a bale of hay I'll never know.. maybe there were school kids behind that bale, you did look didn't you TN, just to make sure?

LOL, no school kids behind the bails, just an old horse barn(horse has been gone along time now) and beyond that a field and some woods.   And yes, those were nice 70lb. bails of hay, not the loose bound 25lb bails.   I'm going to fill a 50gal. plastic trash can that I have with sand or maybe just dirt(that'd be cheaper)for my next shooting session.  I'd really like to get my AK sighted in.
  At least I know one rifle I have will hit where I aim it.  Talk at ya'll later.  TN.Frank

Ok, I think we all have the Idea to make sure that we have a good backstop before we shoot, but what is a good backstop and how do you build it? Does anyone here have a link to some plans or guidance for building a dirt backstop?

Bob

If you have access to a bulldozer, backhoe, skidloader, etc. then making a nice backstop is very easy.  I used a backhoe and built up a pile of dirt and then put a few steel posts in the ground in front of the dirt pile.  After that I attached a piece of plywood to the steel posts to hang targets on.

The dirt pile is about 20 ft long 8 ft high and 10 ft deep.

I definitely take issue with that approach, Redgoat. First you quote the guy then you put words in his mouth/post. The right to bear arms shall not be infringed? We all know that is horseshit as we look at the way our constitution is trounced year by year. We (AR-15 enthusiasts/gun owners) have 2 enemies: ignorant gun grabbers, and shooters that make it easy for them to sway the silent majority to the side of said gun grabbers. I am not calling anybody who posted in this thread one of those people (if the shoe fits though...), but why in the world would you jump on a guy's back for advocating safety or responsibility? I have a problem with these people that push for mandatory safety measures on guns that they know little/nothing about (i.e. microchip implants, & locking devices), but I have just as much problem with reckless shooters, who put our rights in jeopardy as much as those "Anti" assholes we all can't stand. For every right we must have responsibility, or we will not have a right. If we don't want the government to act as the "nation's parents" then we need to act as competant adults. So don't go bagging on someone who preaches safety.

I think what you should do is goto sportsmans guide, or cheaper than dirt. Buy some sand bags and build you  about a thick burm to shoot at. stop wondering about hey bails wet or dry. if you wanna wet something wet the dirt in the sand bags. But for cryin out loud lets not attempt to think irresponsibly about fire arms. Keep in mind the actions you take because something seems simple effect all of us. people sont see the everyday shooter they see the ones that make mistakes, and cause injury to others. or the malicious thing done with fire arms wether intentional or not......

I've been reading this thread? (new to forums)
and can only go by my gut. Hay, as originally posted, is nowhere near enough to stop a .223.
You ended up putting dirt into the mix and that was better than nothing as it apparently worked-
which doesn't mean it should have been attempted
anyway. For those so inclined, here's a new experiment. Shoot plain cinder blocks up close
then back up to say 50 yds. Be prepared for a surprise. Something I haven't tried is filling them with sand or a section of solid wall though
I've "heard" you get the same results as the first experiment- up close is little or no penetration but from a distance it's zippity-do-
dah-day. What if hay acted the same, especially as initially posted with no dirt? If in fact
you're worried about a backstop, why not shoot down from a raised platform into the dirt with the barn, hay and sand filled barrel as a backstop?

I am not here to argue with you about infringement. I posted, earlier in this thread, about my own personal experiences with using hay as a backstop.

From what TNFrank posted, it was clear that he knew his backstop would 'probably' not be sufficient.  He was aware of hte possibility of damaging his barn, and he knew that stray rounds would be entering a not-too-distant- woodline.

If the possibility of a stray round entering a treeline is an issue, then I have to ask, do you make sure your deer, that you are hunting, are standing in front of a known backstop, berm or sandbag bunker?  [;)]

TNFrank hasa  right to keep and bear arms.  There may be a 'mpral' responsoblity that we all expect from a fellow gun owner, but there is no excuse for calling someone names, simply because you fely they were not 'responsoible' for ignoring some stranger on the Internet's advice.

If he had been firing into haybales across from a public school playground, I might have a diiferent opinion on the subject.

As for you opinion, for every right, we must have responsibilty, I would invite you to reconsider your philosophy, but you are certainly welcome to it.  It seems like a slippery slope to me.

Secure in your person, papers? Right to privacy?  How many 'responsibilies' are you willing to include for those rights?

TRG

I've shot at the thick cinderblocks at 50 yards and had debri spray me and the shed 10 feet behind me (sounded like someone threw a handfull of pebbles at it). But I had safety glasses on and it didn't throw them hard enough to really hurt. Though the bullet did manage to go through as I set up some tin sheet metal bebind. It didn't fly straight of course but it certainaly didn't ricochet.

After further inspection of the cinderblock rubble, I found the jackets stripped right off the bullet and a bit of lead scrapings.

I think what he was getting at with the cinderblock was that at very close range, where the velocity was high, the block would cause the bullet to fragment and the block would take very little damage but at longer range where the velocity tapers off the bullet would bust the block and continue on it way.  Is that it?  
 OK, OK, enough with the hay bails already, I think we can all agree that hay makes a lousy back stop but dirt is good.   I'd have never have ask the question, let alone shoot if I though there would be any danger of killing or causing damage to anything important.  
 Why can't we all just get along?? Anyway, I'll talk at ya'll later.  TN.Frank

The shooting range back on my parent's farm consists of an 80-odd acre fescue field with a big round "sacrificial" hay[b]BALE[/b] on the far end to hang targets from. (If we want to shoot from 500 yards, we have to cross a creek and shoot through a break in the riparian tree line).
The hay [b]BALE[/b] is set right up next to a limestone bluff-face which stops any bullet and the hay[b]BALE[/b] does an excellent job preventing ricochets and flying debris from exiting the area.
This is probably the only way I'd use a hay[b]BALE[/b] in shooting sports.

Hay [s]bales[/s] [b]BALES[/b] actually make very good backstops if they're internally reinforced with a bit of structural Tannerite.

now THAT would be cool!! I can imagine the rain of hay, I'd pay to see that!

Ya'll have to remember, I live out in BFE.  When I talk "shooting range" I'm not talking about something nice like the Ben Avery Shooting Range north of Phoenix, I'm talking a 30' wide, 100yrd long area where the trees have been taken out and a dirt berm has been pushed up at one end with a cement table at the other that you shoot off of.   It's just a little place that Fish & Game has put together for people to sight in before hunting season, nothing fancy.    You pace off the distance you want to shoot, pound in a stake to put a target on and have at it.    Talk at ya'll later.  TN.Frank

I've used a big round hay bale as a first level decelerator/backstop before.

My 53 gr. flat base hollowpoint .223's, fired from 50 yards, would completely penetrate the bale about half the time, but with little residual energy.  My backstop behind the bale (several layers of 2" lumber) would typically stop any penetrating .223's so quickly that the bullets literally just hit the boards, bounced off, and fell to the ground.  NONE of the bullets that first penetrated the bale fully went even their entire length into the first board, and most of them went sideways anyway and only punched a bullet-profiled dent in the board that was no deeper than the diameter of the bullet.  

I recovered quite a few fired .223's in this manner, and some of them took so little damage that if it weren't for the rifling grooves, I'd say they were in good enough shape to be used again.

This backstop setup is also very good for recovering intact .45 ball ammo, and 9mm, too.
Same deal,  the ammo just sort of falls out the back of the bale with hardly enough energy left to make a decent dent in the backstop boards.

I also discovered how fantastically tough a golf ball is.  I shot a golf ball at 50 yards with my AR and the 53 gr. hollowpoints just blazed on through the ball, leaving a TINY entrance hole (only about 1 mm wide!) and the exit hole was about .223 diameter.    I nailed the ball about a dozen times and it held together.

CJ

Not surprised the horse is gone cuz it's been kicked to death here....