Doubtful. Have not seen any A1 style 80% lowers. Has anyone bothered to call yet and ask if they put out any forged ones back then?

Ok, let me clarify things a bit here.
I called and talked at length with Bob. He was stumped as it was a VALID pre ban serial number but the mag release fence and A1 style buffer extension didn't mesh well as well as the markings being engraved. He has not made any forged lowers but they are in the process of discontinuing their cast lowers and will only be making forged lowers in the future.

After Paul posted and gave his observations on it, I take this as good enough for me. I had never previously seen or handled a cast lower but this lower just feels different than my forged lowers. I think the previous owner just did a hell of alot of work to make it look more like a standard lower, no idea why but it appears thats what they did. It does not appear to be an 80% lower as to my knowledge no 80% lowers have ever been made with the A1 style buffer extensions and that is something that cannot be just carved out of the A2 style. The A1 style buffer extension is appropriate to the time frame of when this lower was made according to Bob.

I am away at college right now, so I cannot take pictures of the lower nor do I have it right in front of me. I had my father take a look at it and he insists that it is cast, as does Paul who has much more experience with AR15's/M16's than I do so I take his word on this. This does not look at all like an 80% forging as its not a forging, if you choose not to believe that then you're free to take a trip to CT and examine it yourself. I'm not sure what needs to be done to prove it is in fact a casting that someone just did a crapload of work on.

Steve

Quoted: Ok, let me clarify things a bit here. I called and talked at length with Bob. He was stumped as it was a VALID pre ban serial number but the mag release fence and A1 style buffer extension didn't mesh well as well as the markings being engraved. He has not made any forged lowers but they are in the process of discontinuing their cast lowers and will only be making forged lowers in the future. After Paul posted and gave his observations on it, I take this as good enough for me. I had never previously seen or handled a cast lower but this lower just feels different than my forged lowers. I think the previous owner just did a hell of alot of work to make it look more like a standard lower, no idea why but it appears thats what they did. It does not appear to be an 80% lower as to my knowledge no 80% lowers have ever been made with the A1 style buffer extensions and that is something that cannot be just carved out of the A2 style. The A1 style buffer extension is appropriate to the time frame of when this lower was made according to Bob. I am away at college right now, so I cannot take pictures of the lower nor do I have it right in front of me. I had my father take a look at it and he insists that it is cast, as does Paul who has much more experience with AR15's/M16's than I do so I take his word on this. This does not look at all like an 80% forging as its not a forging, if you choose not to believe that then you're free to take a trip to CT and examine it yourself. I'm not sure what needs to be done to prove it is in fact a casting that someone just did a crapload of work on. Steve

That style of lower was in use from 1967 to 1983.  That is 16 years that someone could have made a fake.

You said Bob (the person who makes them) couldn't figure it out.  What does that tell you?

I do not believe someone did any milling or filling to make it look like a A1.

It wouldn't look like a 80% forging if the machine work was finished

I have owned a EA reciever & have had many pass theough my books & this is definately one of their lowers!  The original uneven stamped SN is present, there are slight depressions where the raised lettering & triangle selector stops were & finally the raised mag catch was built up exactly in the area where there was no metal before! Not quite correct but better that that nasty "j" look.

BTW: Just because you don't believe in something, doesn't mean it's not true! I didn't believe in the tooth fairy, but I still got a quarter under my pillow when i was 5!


80%  

I called and talked at length with Bob. He was stumped as it was a VALID pre ban serial number but the mag release fence and A1 style buffer extension didn't mesh well as well as the markings being engraved. He has not made any forged lowers but they are in the process of discontinuing their cast lowers and will only be making forged lowers in the future.


Of course Bob is stumped, as you have a FORGED lower, not a cast one.  I agree with scottryan about this.

Let's look carefully at this:



When a forging is made, a chunk of hot aluminum is pounded on each side by dies shaped pretty much like what the piece should look like when done.  This leaves some metal squished out at a seam where the two halves of the dies come together.  This is what leaves a rough area appx 1/8" wide at the point shown by the arrow in the picture above.  A similar seam is on the front of the mag well, inside of the trigger guard.  This may or may not be machined off smoothly, depending on the manufacturer.  But it is present on yours.

Now look at this:



The selector limit stops are made like on forgings.  No, don't tell me someone fixed it to look like a forging.  Gimme a break.  Also note that the stop to the front has the flat machined onto it.  On most semiauto lowers this flat is not present, the stop is left rounded.  This prevents a Full Auto Selector from fully rotating to the front into the auto position.  I have seen a few semi lowers with that flat, but generally, no.  

Also, look at the rough area where FIRE is engraved.  That looks rather rough.  I would look on the inside, and outside carefully.  Is this perhaps a M16 lower that had the autosear hole welded over, and new engraving placed over it?

At one time the DOD was demilling M16 lowers by shearing them in half through the trigger guard.  Sometimes you could buy the pieces at gun shows.  People would weld the pieces back together making a new lower.  (I can back this up with magazine article showing how, so don't call BS on this unless you want to be embarrassed in public.)  It is possible this is a "reweld".

Also note the line just above the grip as if welded over and filed smooth.

Note the web near the stock.  This is not present on EA lowers.

Now lets look at a real Essential Arms J15 lower from that era:



Note, no web back near the stock.  The saftey selector stops are shaped and positioned completely differently.  There is, in addition, a round spot that would prevent a Full Auto selector from going into position.

Note that the ONLY "innie" markings are the stamped in serial number.  All other markings are "outies" as is necessary on castings.  I am not going to go into detail to explain why markings are stamped in on forgings, and stick out on castings.

As far as the idea someone filed, filled, machined, etc, a casting to make it look like a forging is simply farfetched.

Bob, the manufacturer is confused because he did not make those receivers at that time.  As he should be.

Essential, until recently did not do black.  They had "the original milspec gray" anodized finish.  They took great pride in it, and felt it was a superior finish to the newer black.  They stated this in ads from that era.  Yours appears to be painted black.  Is there any trace of gray finish?  It looks to me as if it is black over aluminum.  Essential Arms lowers are about the color of the dry film lube on USGI mags.

It has only been recently that Essential Arms began offering the black coating.  

I recently applied Norrell's Molyresin OD to a deputy friend's old Essential Arms lower.   (Photo farther up in this thread)  It had been spray painted black by a previous owner, and looked crappy.  I soaked it in a bucket of lacquer thinner overnight, lightly brushed it, and all of the old paint came off.  The gray finish was still there, and looked near new.

I think someone engraved Essential Arms markings on a forging, for whatever reason, thinking that Essential Arms was out of business and no one would ever check or question it.

Anyone want to call BS, go ahead.  Personally, I would distance myself from that lower.

Anyone wana help a brother in a ban state out with a  good deal on a pre ban lower? I'm starting to think this thing, real or not isn't worth the trouble. Shitty deal, my M16 upper just came in today and now I am weary about shooting the damn thing because of this lower. Oh, and you're analysis is wrong about at least one thing, that mark is not from a wel or a cut, it is just a scrape, nothing more nothing less.

Does it have the rough area appx 1/8" wide where shown in the first picture?  Is there a similar area on the front of the mag well (or it may be ground smooth there)?  Inside the trigger guard?

I'm not going to answer any more questions about this lower untill I have it in front of me. I handle my other two AR's and my issue M16's as well as other people's AR's so I don't want to confuse the issue with my bad memory.

Steve

EA did offer their older lowers in black and gray towards the end of them selling them. It is very easy to tell an older cast EA lower. When it is closed on an upper  the magwell side of the lower will be wider than the upper by  almost a 1/16" along the bumped out area near  the end of the mag catch. Every one of the lowers I saw was like that.

Quoted: I called and talked at length with Bob. He was stumped as it was a VALID pre ban serial number but the mag release fence and A1 style buffer extension didn't mesh well as well as the markings being engraved. He has not made any forged lowers but they are in the process of discontinuing their cast lowers and will only be making forged lowers in the future. Of course Bob is stumped, as you have a FORGED lower, not a cast one.  I agree with scottryan about this. Let's look carefully at this: i6.photobucket.com/albums/y209/AFreeMan/EAback.jpg When a forging is made, a chunk of hot aluminum is pounded on each side by dies shaped pretty much like what the piece should look like when done.  This leaves some metal squished out at a seam where the two halves of the dies come together.  This is what leaves a rough area appx 1/8" wide at the point shown by the arrow in the picture above.  A similar seam is on the front of the mag well, inside of the trigger guard.  This may or may not be machined off smoothly, depending on the manufacturer.  But it is present on yours. Now look at this: i6.photobucket.com/albums/y209/AFreeMan/EAside.jpg The selector limit stops are made like on forgings.  No, don't tell me someone fixed it to look like a forging.  Gimme a break.  Also note that the stop to the front has the flat machined onto it.  On most semiauto lowers this flat is not present, the stop is left rounded.  This prevents a Full Auto Selector from fully rotating to the front into the auto position.  I have seen a few semi lowers with that flat, but generally, no.   Also, look at the rough area where FIRE is engraved.  That looks rather rough.  I would look on the inside, and outside carefully.  Is this perhaps a M16 lower that had the autosear hole welded over, and new engraving placed over it? At one time the DOD was demilling M16 lowers by shearing them in half through the trigger guard.  Sometimes you could buy the pieces at gun shows.  People would weld the pieces back together making a new lower.  (I can back this up with magazine article showing how, so don't call BS on this unless you want to be embarrassed in public.)  It is possible this is a "reweld". Also note the line just above the grip as if welded over and filed smooth. Note the web near the stock.  This is not present on EA lowers. Now lets look at a real Essential Arms J15 lower from that era: i6.photobucket.com/albums/y209/AFreeMan/EAJ15.jpg Note, no web back near the stock.  The saftey selector stops are shaped and positioned completely differently.  There is, in addition, a round spot that would prevent a Full Auto selector from going into position. Note that the ONLY "innie" markings are the stamped in serial number.  All other markings are "outies" as is necessary on castings.  I am not going to go into detail to explain why markings are stamped in on forgings, and stick out on castings. As far as the idea someone filed, filled, machined, etc, a casting to make it look like a forging is simply farfetched. Bob, the manufacturer is confused because he did not make those receivers at that time.  As he should be. Essential, until recently did not do black.  They had "the original milspec gray" anodized finish.  They took great pride in it, and felt it was a superior finish to the newer black.  They stated this in ads from that era.  Yours appears to be painted black.  Is there any trace of gray finish?  It looks to me as if it is black over aluminum.  Essential Arms lowers are about the color of the dry film lube on USGI mags. It has only been recently that Essential Arms began offering the black coating.   I recently applied Norrell's Molyresin OD to a deputy friend's old Essential Arms lower.   (Photo farther up in this thread)  It had been spray painted black by a previous owner, and looked crappy.  I soaked it in a bucket of lacquer thinner overnight, lightly brushed it, and all of the old paint came off.  The gray finish was still there, and looked near new. I think someone engraved Essential Arms markings on a forging, for whatever reason, thinking that Essential Arms was out of business and no one would ever check or question it. Anyone want to call BS, go ahead.  Personally, I would distance myself from that lower.

I agree with everything posted here exept that most forged semi auto lowers have the same selector stops as select fire lowers.

Olymipic arms is the only company that leaves the front selector stop unmachined to prevent the selector from full rotation.

The lower could be a H&R or GM Hydramatic because of the squared up edges on the magwell.  I will check on that and be back.

Quoted: I have owned a EA reciever & have had many pass theough my books & this is definately one of their lowers!  The original uneven stamped SN is present, there are slight depressions where the raised lettering & triangle selector stops were & finally the raised mag catch was built up exactly in the area where there was no metal before! Not quite correct but better that that nasty "j" look. BTW: Just because you don't believe in something, doesn't mean it's not true! I didn't believe in the tooth fairy, but I still got a quarter under my pillow when i was 5! 80%  tinypic.com/e02wbd.jpg

I just wanted to tell you that you are full of shit.

Quoted: ... Of course Bob is stumped, as you have a FORGED lower, not a cast one.  I agree with scottryan about this. ... I think someone engraved Essential Arms markings on a forging, for whatever reason, thinking that Essential Arms was out of business and no one would ever check or question it.

I would tend to agree as well.  My pre-ban EA J-15 (serial number in the 2xxx range)  lower looks almost exactly like the one pictured with the triangular  selector stops.  Raised markings except the stamped in serial number, lack of reinforcing ribs on the buffer area, etc.

My guess is the receiver is "fake", and would further speculate it probably started as an 80% forging (possibly a casting, but it looks more like a forging), which was then engraved with EA-like markings in order to make it appear to be "pre-ban".  During the ban, there were many sites and a couple of FAQ's that listed EA as being out of business (not quite correct, they were just out of the receiver business) and all EA receivers as being pre-ban.  That would makethem a popular choice, as someone else on the thread noted, for making a "fake" pre-ban as people would assume you couldn't contact EA for verification.  DPMS, which purchased EA's tooling at the time was listed in the FAQs as refusing to answer any questions about EA marked products.

by request of author