Finish flaws on new Colt? - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Finish flaws on new Colt? (Page 2 of 3)

Posted: 11/21/2008 6:12:07 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
I didn't make this, but I won't tell you guys where I found it, because anything within an 87 mile radius would be destroyed!

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6110/chartcoltlawlshg7.jpg

Best. Chart. Ever. But only because of the "Other" section.

Posted: 11/21/2008 6:17:21 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
You paid for a new rifle so if you feel it isnt to your expectations call Colt and they'll probley change it out for you. What cracks me up is all these Colt fanboys saying "Its a battle rifle its not supposed to be perty" when they know darn well if this was a Bushmaster thread their reply would be "Thats what you get when you buy low teir junk"

Personally I'd like to see the OP post pics, much of what he's whining about sounds like BS like the machining marks on the front of the mag well and the "discolored" carrier.

So OP, show us what you are upset about....................

Posted: 11/21/2008 6:28:58 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Here we go again.

It's kinda' like a car wreck isn't it? No matter how hard you try not to, you just have to slow down and take a look.

Great stuff guys.

Posted: 11/21/2008 6:38:35 AM EDT

[#4]

I bought a XYZ brand hammer (made by a US Company ) at H&^% D@&*#, it has numerous finish flaws.

The metal shows obvious tool and forge marks. It's obvious that not much time was spent at the polishing wheel. Not to mention the speck of green paint on the head. Then, the finish on the handle sucks, the varnish appears as though it was dipped and left hanging to dry.

I can remember buying the same brand 25 yrs ago and they were works of art.

Ahem......it's a tool.

And, IMHO.......my COLTs are tools NOT safe queens. Don't sweat the minor stuff.

IF you're the picky type, about finish issues. Don't buy from an Internet dealer to be shipped to your FFL. Buy it from the store after looking for the best one they got. You may have to pay a few $$$ more. But, there you go. You'll be happier.

Aloha, Mark

PS.........you're not happy with COLT's QC, buy a ABC, XYZ or HIJ Brand, no one is forcing you to open your wallet. I doubt that COLT cares. IF and when they do start careing, they'll make changes or go bankrupt.

It's starting to sound like I'm describing the US auto industry. OK, so I should mention a "government bail out" at this point?

Anyway, for those that say the "other brands" are better.........there you go, you made your choice.

Posted: 11/21/2008 6:41:26 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:Well considering Colt does the majority of the machining on site, theres really no one else to go upstream to. Remeber they are a real manufacturer not just a parts bin assembler. They follow the TDP spec. The do a ton of testing, maybe someone will jump in in give the rundown.

When company X focuses the majority of QC on how tight the upper and lower fit together and how smooth the finish is, while not doing proper staking, using lower grade metals, skipping 80% of the tests Colt does, etc I find that to be a disservice to the customer. The customer beleives they have a superior product based on superficial appearances.

Right...because Colt is only supposed to QC their parts, who gives a damn about appearance or fit/finish. Funny how Sabre can put out rifles that make Colt look like shit and perform just as well. If that isn't proof of better QC I don't know what is.

Yup you're absolutely right. The main indicator of a rifles quality is the finish

Sabre does not put their rifles through the same tests as Colt. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Sabre, but anyone who says Colt is junk has demonstrated they have little to no idea what they are talking about.

Posted: 11/21/2008 7:47:29 AM EDT

[#6]

did we actually ever see pictures of this rifle?

Posted: 11/21/2008 8:07:15 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
did we actually ever see pictures of this rifle?

Do we really need them? Colt bashers won't need them in order to continue bashing; Colt fans won't believe them or will make up stupid excuses such as "it's a tool, not a safe queen". The rest of us in between––do you really care? Hopefully Colt will fix whatever the OP needs; if not, that should say enough about Colt to deter people on the fence. Otherwise, I doubt it will change anyone else's mind.

Posted: 11/21/2008 8:32:06 AM EDT

[#8]

I really didn’t mean to start such a fire-storm here. I didn’t expect so many responses to my initial post, or that people would get so...passionate. Relax guys...woo sah...

You can probably see by my low post count that I don’t hang out here on AR15.com all that often. I am mostly an FN FAL guy. When I spend $2,000+ on an FN FAL there are certain things I expect...attention to detail.

I was just frustrated to spend a lot of money on a weapon and have it arrive in other than perfect condition. I know it’s a tool and eventually it will have visual flaws from use, I would just rather that they come from my own hand. Most likely I will just let these cosmetic flaws go. I was just annoyed and wanted opinions from other Colt owners and AR experts on their experiences.

I do have some pictures of the milling marks, but they came from my phone camera and are not great pictures. The sloppy bolt carrier finish has been hard to accurately take a picture of.

If someone wants to post them I will email them to you. I’m not sure how to post pictures online.

Posted: 11/21/2008 8:36:08 AM EDT

[#9]

Posted: 11/21/2008 9:22:17 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:I doubt that COLT cares.

You did nail that one on the head.

Quoted:Yup you're absolutely right. The main indicator of a rifles quality is the finish

Nope...like I said earlier, it's an indicator of the manufacturer's QC. Is that not correct?

Quoted:Sabre does not put their rifles through the same tests as Colt.

Unless you work for Colt or Sabre Defence, you can't state that as fact.

Posted: 11/21/2008 9:52:37 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

I have to admit though, the shit added at the bottom may very well be more accurate than the rest of the chart...lol

Yup. Sure gave me a chuckle. I've seen it right here many times.

Posted: 11/21/2008 10:16:21 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:Sabre does not put their rifles through the same tests as Colt.

Unless you work for Colt or Sabre Defence, you can't state that as fact.

MPI Bolt
HPT Bolt

Colt - tests every one
Sabre - batch tests

MPI Barrel
HPT Barrel

Colt - tests every one
Sabre - Batch tests

So yes I can say that as a fact.

Posted: 11/21/2008 10:37:00 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:MPI Bolt
HPT Bolt

Colt - tests every one
Sabre - batch tests

MPI Barrel
HPT Barrel

Colt - tests every one
Sabre - Batch tests

So yes I can say that as a fact.

Ok, I'm going to assume you've spoken to both Colt and Sabre and gotten this info from them directly...now, with that out of the way...

And still Sabre's rifles run right with Colt's (actually Sabre's barrels are known for their accuracy) and do so looking just fine with no cosmetic issues. Looks like Sabre's bolts and barrels are doing just fine when compared to Colt's too.

I wonder how good Colt's .50cal machine guns are doing for our boys in the service...oh wait, that would be Sabre's. I guess the old "If Colt is good enough for the military it's good enough for me" phrase should apply to Sabre x2 since they not only provide the military with M4's, but also .50cal machine guns.

Like I said, Colt is good but they aren't #1. I'd actually put them at the bottom of the list when compared to Sabre, LMT, and Noveske.

Posted: 11/21/2008 10:38:58 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:MPI Bolt
HPT Bolt

Colt - tests every one
Sabre - batch tests

MPI Barrel
HPT Barrel

Colt - tests every one
Sabre - Batch tests

So yes I can say that as a fact.

Ok, I'm going to assume you've spoken to both Colt and Sabre and gotten this info from them directly...now, with that out of the way...

And still Sabre's rifles run right with Colt's (actually Sabre's barrels are known for their accuracy) and do so looking just fine with no cosmetic issues. Looks like Sabre's bolts and barrels are doing just fine when compared to Colt's too.

I wonder how good Colt's .50cal machine guns are doing for our boys in the service...oh wait, that would be Sabre's. I guess the old "If Colt is good enough for the military it's good enough for me" phrase should apply to Sabre x2 since they not only provide the military with M4's, but also .50cal machine guns.

Like I said, Colt is good but they aren't #1. I'd actually put them at the bottom of the list when compared to Sabre, LMT, and Noveske.

Umm, if this is true...BURN!!!

Posted: 11/21/2008 10:41:47 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:MPI Bolt
HPT Bolt

Colt - tests every one
Sabre - batch tests

MPI Barrel
HPT Barrel

Colt - tests every one
Sabre - Batch tests

So yes I can say that as a fact.

Ok, I'm going to assume you've spoken to both Colt and Sabre and gotten this info from them directly...now, with that out of the way...

And still Sabre's rifles run right with Colt's (actually Sabre's barrels are known for their accuracy) and do so looking just fine with no cosmetic issues. Looks like Sabre's bolts and barrels are doing just fine when compared to Colt's too.

I wonder how good Colt's .50cal machine guns are doing for our boys in the service...oh wait, that would be Sabre's. I guess the old "If Colt is good enough for the military it's good enough for me" phrase should apply to Sabre x2 since they not only provide the military with M4's, but also .50cal machine guns.

Like I said, Colt is good but they aren't #1. I'd actually put them at the bottom of the list when compared to Sabre, LMT, and Noveske.

As soon as you claimed that Sabre makes M4s for the Military you showed yourself to be full O' the brown stuff. Show me proof that Sabre makes M4's for the MILITARY, I.E. Army, Navy Air Force, Marines and I'll apologize, but I doubt you'll be able to produce it.

Posted: 11/21/2008 10:45:16 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:As soon as you claimed that Sabre makes M4s for the Military you showed yourself to be full O' the brown stuff. Show me proof that Sabre makes M4's for the MILITARY, I.E. Army, Navy Air Force, Marines and I'll apologize, but I doubt you'll be able to produce it.

Ok, here you go...same thing Colt does:

http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1155

NASHVILLE, TN (July 15, 2008)- Sabre Defence Industries, LLC (SDI), a government contractor for the manufacture of machine gun parts and accessories and commercial XR15 rifles, is proud to announce that Sabre Defence has been awarded an IDIQ contract for a minimum of 4,952 M16A3 and 702 M16A4 rifles to support the U.S. Navy, U.S. Marine Corps, and foreign military customers. Nine bids were received with Sabre being only the third company in the 45-year M16 history, besides Colt and FN, to be awarded a contract to supply a Mil-Spec M16 to the U.S. government.

The M16 project will take place at Sabre Defence’s Nashville, Tennessee facility and is expected to be completed by end of December, 2010. Sabre’s growing reputation as a top quality manufacturer of XR model rifles in the commercial market will not be affected by the military contract. Production continues to meet demand of the highly accurate XR15A3 series rifles and new models are...

scheduled to be released in the coming months.

For more information on any of Sabre Defence’s rifles, handguns, or barrel assemblies, log on to www.sabredefence.com or call 615-333-0077.

Took all of 2 minutes.

Quoted:Umm, if this is true...BURN!!!

Sure is:

http://www.sabredefence.com/government.php

Sabre and the U.S. Government

The U.S. government is Sabre Defence Industry's largest-volume client. And we, in turn, provide them with firearms of superior quality.

Government branches we serve include the armed forces, police departments and security, with the military being the largest sector. If you see an Army M2 Browning .50 machine gun or an Air Force M134 7.62 mm Minigun, you can be sure it's using a Sabre Defence barrel. We're dedicated to providing the equipment U.S. soldiers need for their safety and security.

With soldiers' lives at stake, our weapons and parts must be reliable. We take every measure to ensure the highest levels of quality. Our engineers are dedicated and highly experienced, and we utilize the latest CNC turning and machining technology.

From basic milling and turning, to deep-hole drilling and cut and button rifling, we do it all. Our products are built to the tightest tolerances and highest standards in the industry.

Our primary government commodities are:

.50 Caliber Machine Guns
.50 Caliber Gun Components
Mounts
Commercial/Law Enforcement Products

Posted: 11/21/2008 11:04:27 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:MPI Bolt
HPT Bolt

Colt - tests every one
Sabre - batch tests

MPI Barrel
HPT Barrel

Colt - tests every one
Sabre - Batch tests

So yes I can say that as a fact.

Ok, I'm going to assume you've spoken to both Colt and Sabre and gotten this info from them directly...now, with that out of the way...

And still Sabre's rifles run right with Colt's (actually Sabre's barrels are known for their accuracy) and do so looking just fine with no cosmetic issues. Looks like Sabre's bolts and barrels are doing just fine when compared to Colt's too.

I wonder how good Colt's .50cal machine guns are doing for our boys in the service...oh wait, that would be Sabre's. I guess the old "If Colt is good enough for the military it's good enough for me" phrase should apply to Sabre x2 since they not only provide the military with M4's, but also .50cal machine guns.

Like I said, Colt is good but they aren't #1. I'd actually put them at the bottom of the list when compared to Sabre, LMT, and Noveske.

I'm not disagreeing with you on everything. I'm not bashing Sabre either. I'm sure not bashing LMT or Noveske. They all make great rifles. I never said if it's good enough for the military it's good enough for me either. I wouldn't mind owning any single one of those brands you mentioned along with KAC, Larue and BCM. All I am saying is that Colt makes a top of the line rifle that stands above most.

Posted: 11/21/2008 11:06:29 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:As soon as you claimed that Sabre makes M4s for the Military you showed yourself to be full O' the brown stuff. Show me proof that Sabre makes M4's for the MILITARY, I.E. Army, Navy Air Force, Marines and I'll apologize, but I doubt you'll be able to produce it.

Ok, here you go...same thing Colt does:

http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1155

NASHVILLE, TN (July 15, 2008)- Sabre Defence Industries, LLC (SDI), a government contractor for the manufacture of machine gun parts and accessories and commercial XR15 rifles, is proud to announce that Sabre Defence has been awarded an IDIQ contract for a minimum of 4,952 M16A3 and 702 M16A4 rifles to support the U.S. Navy, U.S. Marine Corps, and foreign military customers. Nine bids were received with Sabre being only the third company in the 45-year M16 history, besides Colt and FN, to be awarded a contract to supply a Mil-Spec M16 to the U.S. government.

The M16 project will take place at Sabre Defence’s Nashville, Tennessee facility and is expected to be completed by end of December, 2010. Sabre’s growing reputation as a top quality manufacturer of XR model rifles in the commercial market will not be affected by the military contract. Production continues to meet demand of the highly accurate XR15A3 series rifles and new models are...

scheduled to be released in the coming months.

For more information on any of Sabre Defence’s rifles, handguns, or barrel assemblies, log on to www.sabredefence.com or call 615-333-0077.

Took all of 2 minutes.

Quoted:Umm, if this is true...BURN!!!

Sure is:

http://www.sabredefence.com/government.php

Sabre and the U.S. Government

The U.S. government is Sabre Defence Industry's largest-volume client. And we, in turn, provide them with firearms of superior quality.

Government branches we serve include the armed forces, police departments and security, with the military being the largest sector. If you see an Army M2 Browning .50 machine gun or an Air Force M134 7.62 mm Minigun, you can be sure it's using a Sabre Defence barrel. We're dedicated to providing the equipment U.S. soldiers need for their safety and security.

With soldiers' lives at stake, our weapons and parts must be reliable. We take every measure to ensure the highest levels of quality. Our engineers are dedicated and highly experienced, and we utilize the latest CNC turning and machining technology.

From basic milling and turning, to deep-hole drilling and cut and button rifling, we do it all. Our products are built to the tightest tolerances and highest standards in the industry.

Our primary government commodities are:

.50 Caliber Machine Guns
.50 Caliber Gun Components
Mounts
Commercial/Law Enforcement Products

I wasn't aware of that and I doubt many others were too.

Posted: 11/21/2008 11:07:45 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:As soon as you claimed that Sabre makes M4s for the Military you showed yourself to be full O' the brown stuff. Show me proof that Sabre makes M4's for the MILITARY, I.E. Army, Navy Air Force, Marines and I'll apologize, but I doubt you'll be able to produce it.

Ok, here you go...same thing Colt does:

http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1155

NASHVILLE, TN (July 15, 2008)- Sabre Defence Industries, LLC (SDI), a government contractor for the manufacture of machine gun parts and accessories and commercial XR15 rifles, is proud to announce that Sabre Defence has been awarded an IDIQ contract for a minimum of 4,952 M16A3 and 702 M16A4 rifles to support the U.S. Navy, U.S. Marine Corps, and foreign military customers. Nine bids were received with Sabre being only the third company in the 45-year M16 history, besides Colt and FN, to be awarded a contract to supply a Mil-Spec M16 to the U.S. government.

The M16 project will take place at Sabre Defence’s Nashville, Tennessee facility and is expected to be completed by end of December, 2010. Sabre’s growing reputation as a top quality manufacturer of XR model rifles in the commercial market will not be affected by the military contract. Production continues to meet demand of the highly accurate XR15A3 series rifles and new models are...

scheduled to be released in the coming months.

For more information on any of Sabre Defence’s rifles, handguns, or barrel assemblies, log on to www.sabredefence.com or call 615-333-0077.

Took all of 2 minutes.

Quoted:Umm, if this is true...BURN!!!

Sure is:

http://www.sabredefence.com/government.php

Sabre and the U.S. Government

The U.S. government is Sabre Defence Industry's largest-volume client. And we, in turn, provide them with firearms of superior quality.

Government branches we serve include the armed forces, police departments and security, with the military being the largest sector. If you see an Army M2 Browning .50 machine gun or an Air Force M134 7.62 mm Minigun, you can be sure it's using a Sabre Defence barrel. We're dedicated to providing the equipment U.S. soldiers need for their safety and security.

With soldiers' lives at stake, our weapons and parts must be reliable. We take every measure to ensure the highest levels of quality. Our engineers are dedicated and highly experienced, and we utilize the latest CNC turning and machining technology.

From basic milling and turning, to deep-hole drilling and cut and button rifling, we do it all. Our products are built to the tightest tolerances and highest standards in the industry.

Our primary government commodities are:

.50 Caliber Machine Guns
.50 Caliber Gun Components
Mounts
Commercial/Law Enforcement Products

Nope, Fail, overseas CUSTOMERS, [NOT US Military personal]

and the M16 is NOT the same weapon as the M4. One is a rifle and one is a carbine.

I'd like to see the Military orders [for US GI's] for the Sabre M4.

Posted: 11/21/2008 11:12:10 AM EDT

[#20]

The way I read it, it sure does....support the US Navy, US Marine Corp AND foreign military.

Posted: 11/21/2008 11:16:38 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Nope, Fail, overseas CUSTOMERS, [NOT US Military personal]

and the M16 is NOT the same weapon as the M4. One is a rifle and one is a carbine.

I'd like to see the Military orders [for US GI's] for the Sabre M4.

So, did you skip the part where it said " U.S. Navy, U.S. Marine Corps" on purpose?

Colt still has the M4 contract, Sabre now has the M16A3 and M16A4 contract.

Posted: 11/21/2008 11:17:38 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
The way I read it, it sure does....support the US Navy, US Marine Corp AND foreign military.

Colt is the ONLY M4 provider to the US Military until 2009. Might Sabre supply some for testing, sure, actual large orders for usage on the battlefield, nope.

Posted: 11/21/2008 11:21:59 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Nope, Fail, overseas CUSTOMERS, [NOT US Military personal]

and the M16 is NOT the same weapon as the M4. One is a rifle and one is a carbine.

I'd like to see the Military orders [for US GI's] for the Sabre M4.

So, did you skip the part where it said " U.S. Navy, U.S. Marine Corps" on purpose?

Colt still has the M4 contract, Sabre now has the M16A3 and M16A4 contract.

So did Sabre replace FN for M16s or just get signed on to bolster production?

Posted: 11/21/2008 11:26:42 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Colt is the ONLY M4 provider to the US Military until 2009. Might Sabre supply some for testing, sure, actual large orders for usage on the battlefield, nope.

I wouldn't say that. Colt could very well lose the M4 contract to Sabre just like FN lost the M16 one.

Quoted:
So did Sabre replace FN for M16s or just get signed on to bolster production?

Nope...FN no longer has any part of the contract. Sabre has now replaced them.

Posted: 11/21/2008 11:35:47 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I didn't make this, but I won't tell you guys where I found it, because anything within an 87 mile radius would be destroyed!

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6110/chartcoltlawlshg7.jpg

One way this chart is BS is that it lists S&W and Stag seperatly. Last I checked Stag Made S&W's AR's. This chart lists totaly different specs between the 2.

That's on old one. You've got some catching-up to do. EDIT-Quote placement.

Posted: 11/21/2008 11:43:02 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
I bought my first 2 new Colts last week, a 6920 and a 6721, and they just arrived today. Mechanically they seem perfect, but appear to have some cosmetic flaws.

1. Diagonal milling marks on the front of the magazine well.

2. Small scratches and nicks on the edge of the lower receiver, by the rear take down pin.

3. Uneven, sloppy finish on the bolt carrier.

4. Rear sights that wiggle, a lot...on both rifles.

Have you guys experienced these minor flaws with new Colts? They are minor issues and after some use I might expect such things, but not on brand new rifles. I will try to get some pics.

My bushmaster has none of those issues and alot of colt guys bash on bushmaster's so something must not be right with your guns as a whole.

Posted: 11/21/2008 12:06:01 PM EDT

[#27]

My first 6920 I bought about 2 years ago had similar if not worse cosmetic blemishes. It looked like Dremelling had been done to areas before the finish was applied. I sold it for what I got it at $1150. Since then I bought another one (on 10/22/08) at $1300, and it was perfect cosmetically. Shoulda bought the other 3 they had in the back! You spend over a grand on a commercial product and expect a certain level of attention to be paid to appearance, even if it is not a functional issue. Just my .02.
Here she is next to my Colt M16A1 Socomm Hbar:

Posted: 11/21/2008 12:26:18 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:As soon as you claimed that Sabre makes M4s for the Military you showed yourself to be full O' the brown stuff. Show me proof that Sabre makes M4's for the MILITARY, I.E. Army, Navy Air Force, Marines and I'll apologize, but I doubt you'll be able to produce it.

Ok, here you go...same thing Colt does:

http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1155

NASHVILLE, TN (July 15, 2008)- Sabre Defence Industries, LLC (SDI), a government contractor for the manufacture of machine gun parts and accessories and commercial XR15 rifles, is proud to announce that Sabre Defence has been awarded an IDIQ contract for a minimum of 4,952 M16A3 and 702 M16A4 rifles to support the U.S. Navy, U.S. Marine Corps, and foreign military customers. Nine bids were received with Sabre being only the third company in the 45-year M16 history, besides Colt and FN, to be awarded a contract to supply a Mil-Spec M16 to the U.S. government.

The M16 project will take place at Sabre Defence’s Nashville, Tennessee facility and is expected to be completed by end of December, 2010. Sabre’s growing reputation as a top quality manufacturer of XR model rifles in the commercial market will not be affected by the military contract. Production continues to meet demand of the highly accurate XR15A3 series rifles and new models are...

scheduled to be released in the coming months.

For more information on any of Sabre Defence’s rifles, handguns, or barrel assemblies, log on to www.sabredefence.com or call 615-333-0077.

Took all of 2 minutes.

Quoted:Umm, if this is true...BURN!!!

Sure is:

http://www.sabredefence.com/government.php

Sabre and the U.S. Government

The U.S. government is Sabre Defence Industry's largest-volume client. And we, in turn, provide them with firearms of superior quality.

Government branches we serve include the armed forces, police departments and security, with the military being the largest sector. If you see an Army M2 Browning .50 machine gun or an Air Force M134 7.62 mm Minigun, you can be sure it's using a Sabre Defence barrel. We're dedicated to providing the equipment U.S. soldiers need for their safety and security.

With soldiers' lives at stake, our weapons and parts must be reliable. We take every measure to ensure the highest levels of quality. Our engineers are dedicated and highly experienced, and we utilize the latest CNC turning and machining technology.

From basic milling and turning, to deep-hole drilling and cut and button rifling, we do it all. Our products are built to the tightest tolerances and highest standards in the industry.

Our primary government commodities are:

.50 Caliber Machine Guns
.50 Caliber Gun Components
Mounts
Commercial/Law Enforcement Products

Nope, Fail, overseas CUSTOMERS, [NOT US Military personal]

and the M16 is NOT the same weapon as the M4. One is a rifle and one is a carbine.

I'd like to see the Military orders [for US GI's] for the Sabre M4.

Ruh-Roh. Looks like the Colt Kool-Aid is strong with this one. It has clouded his judgement (and, apparently, his ability to read). Better read ALL the paragraph next time before declaring it a "fail". Asshattery knows no bounds with you, I see.

Posted: 11/21/2008 12:48:20 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:As soon as you claimed that Sabre makes M4s for the Military you showed yourself to be full O' the brown stuff. Show me proof that Sabre makes M4's for the MILITARY, I.E. Army, Navy Air Force, Marines and I'll apologize, but I doubt you'll be able to produce it.

Ok, here you go...same thing Colt does:

http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1155

NASHVILLE, TN (July 15, 2008)- Sabre Defence Industries, LLC (SDI), a government contractor for the manufacture of machine gun parts and accessories and commercial XR15 rifles, is proud to announce that Sabre Defence has been awarded an IDIQ contract for a minimum of 4,952 M16A3 and 702 M16A4 rifles to support the U.S. Navy, U.S. Marine Corps, and foreign military customers. Nine bids were received with Sabre being only the third company in the 45-year M16 history, besides Colt and FN, to be awarded a contract to supply a Mil-Spec M16 to the U.S. government.

The M16 project will take place at Sabre Defence’s Nashville, Tennessee facility and is expected to be completed by end of December, 2010. Sabre’s growing reputation as a top quality manufacturer of XR model rifles in the commercial market will not be affected by the military contract. Production continues to meet demand of the highly accurate XR15A3 series rifles and new models are...

scheduled to be released in the coming months.

For more information on any of Sabre Defence’s rifles, handguns, or barrel assemblies, log on to www.sabredefence.com or call 615-333-0077.

Took all of 2 minutes.

Quoted:Umm, if this is true...BURN!!!

Sure is:

http://www.sabredefence.com/government.php

Sabre and the U.S. Government

The U.S. government is Sabre Defence Industry's largest-volume client. And we, in turn, provide them with firearms of superior quality.

Government branches we serve include the armed forces, police departments and security, with the military being the largest sector. If you see an Army M2 Browning .50 machine gun or an Air Force M134 7.62 mm Minigun, you can be sure it's using a Sabre Defence barrel. We're dedicated to providing the equipment U.S. soldiers need for their safety and security.

With soldiers' lives at stake, our weapons and parts must be reliable. We take every measure to ensure the highest levels of quality. Our engineers are dedicated and highly experienced, and we utilize the latest CNC turning and machining technology.

From basic milling and turning, to deep-hole drilling and cut and button rifling, we do it all. Our products are built to the tightest tolerances and highest standards in the industry.

Our primary government commodities are:

.50 Caliber Machine Guns
.50 Caliber Gun Components
Mounts
Commercial/Law Enforcement Products

Nope, Fail, overseas CUSTOMERS, [NOT US Military personal]

and the M16 is NOT the same weapon as the M4. One is a rifle and one is a carbine.

I'd like to see the Military orders [for US GI's] for the Sabre M4.

Ruh-Roh. Looks like the Colt Kool-Aid is strong with this one. It has clouded his judgement (and, apparently, his ability to read). Better read ALL the paragraph next time before declaring it a "fail". Asshattery knows no bounds with you, I see.

Dude Saber's suck though, they have those disgusting small pins, they're like .154, wtf is up with that!!!!!!!!!

Posted: 11/21/2008 12:58:46 PM EDT

[#30]

Colt is the standard for durability; however, if I received one with blems, I'd want a replacement/monetary compensation.

People can say all they want about Colt, pro or con, but fit and finish IS part of the QC.

Posted: 11/21/2008 1:06:35 PM EDT

[#31]

he said sabre made M4s. not M16s and that was untrue.

FN didnt lose the M16 contract, sabre was awarded a small M16 contract as a small buisness to help out. Sabre has not made M16 type rifles for over 40 years and the M16s sabre does make for the military HAVE to follow by the COLT TDP not what they want an M16 to be, So before you get a chubby, realize Sabre is making rifles the way colt specs them to be so.. It cant be better than a colt. they have to meet the same specs

this is a retarded thread. You guys are so rabid for any excuse to bash colt. Why? most have no real experience with colts CS which i think is fine and have never had a problem

Fit and finish ha!! colts is too busy to give a shit and if you want some GI not to have a rifle because you think colt should spend more time on your fit and finish? OK thats your problem.

I seen plenty nice looking ARs that are not even made correctly, but they are pretty... yeah I need a flawless looking club

yes I like SAbre fine and will buy one as soon as I can, but the truth some dont want to face is, they just havent made them that long and dont have the experience making them.

You guys that hate colt, fine dont buy them. more for me. And BTW go tell the guys that use them all the time Like Pat Rogers he doent know anything. Obviously a man who trusts a gun that isnt pretty 100 percent of the time doesnt know what quality is.

And just because a gun works ever time for a guy that shoots 500 rounds a year off a bench, and costs less does not make it just as good, or better than a weapon built for real combat, be it Sabre, FN , colt or LMT

Posted: 11/21/2008 1:39:21 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
he said sabre made M4s. not M16s and that was untrue.

FN didnt lose the M16 contract, sabre was awarded a small M16 contract as a small buisness to help out. Sabre has not made M16 type rifles for over 40 years and the M16s sabre does make for the military HAVE to follow by the COLT TDP not what they want an M16 to be, So before you get a chubby, realize Sabre is making rifles the way colt specs them to be so.. It cant be better than a colt. they have to meet the same specs

this is a retarded thread. You guys are so rabid for any excuse to bash colt. Why? most have no real experience with colts CS which i think is fine and have never had a problem

Fit and finish ha!! colts is too busy to give a shit and if you want some GI not to have a rifle because you think colt should spend more time on your fit and finish? OK thats your problem.

I seen plenty nice looking ARs that are not even made correctly, but they are pretty... yeah I need a flawless looking club

yes I like SAbre fine and will buy one as soon as I can, but the truth some dont want to face is, they just havent made them that long and dont have the experience making them.

You guys that hate colt, fine dont buy them. more for me. And BTW go tell the guys that use them all the time Like Pat Rogers he doent know anything. Obviously a man who trusts a gun that isnt pretty 100 percent of the time doesnt know what quality is.

And just because a gun works ever time for a guy that shoots 500 rounds a year off a bench, and costs less does not make it just as good, or better than a weapon built for real combat, be it Sabre, FN , colt or LMT

Well, at least this much of your post was true. Sabre does make the M16, not M4. However, it didn't change the point he was making, now did it? Or did you forget what the original point was? Anybody have a spare life vest? He must be drowning in all the Kool Aid...

Posted: 11/21/2008 1:53:19 PM EDT

[#33]

I tell you what. anyone not happy with their ugly colt I will trade and pay the difference. I offer up a NIB LMT m4 that is pretty. send to your FFL and you send the colt to me. I dont care how bad it looks.

Posted: 11/21/2008 2:23:51 PM EDT

[#34]

ShawnMT6601

this is a retarded thread. You guys are so rabid for any excuse to bash colt. Why? most have no real experience with colts CS which i think is fine and have never had a problem

Fit and finish ha!! colts is too busy to give a shit and if you want some GI not to have a rifle because you think colt should spend more time on your fit and finish? OK thats your problem.

You are correct..

This thread is a prime example of what happens when civy's buy .Mil spec weapons and apply there civy standards.

Your not buying a $15.000 custom K-80 Over/Under shotgun made of blued steel and wood, and your not buying a $2000 Weatherby MKV.

Your buying a Aluminum and steel mass produced weapon that is designed to meet a .Mil specification. Part of that spec requires a durable finish to protect the weapon from the elements and to provide corrosion resistance.

This finish is designed from the ground up to be functionable. not to be aesthetically pleasing to the eye.

Applying your "new car" quality standards to a Military weapon is why your expectations are not met.

And I don't care what .Mil weapon your talking about. to include FN FAL's. There not built for beauty. There built to be a hard use tool designed to withstand the rigors of Military use.

If your think the QC inspectors are going to reject a lot of M4 carbines because of a blemish in the parkerization or tooling marks... then you are always going to be disappointed...

and keep in mind, the AR's that everyone will jump on and say don't look "That way" and look beautiful.... are not being produced for the .Mil, are not made to the same spec and have a higher statistical failure rate based on the lower level of QC testing that is followed in the TDP (Tech data package).

Know what you know, and know what you don't know...

Posted: 11/21/2008 2:42:00 PM EDT

[#35]

I have had my 6920 for a couple of weeks now. There are a few minor scratches on the barrel but not worth talking about. The lower has a couple of little scratches but are barely noticeable. I will be shooting it tomorrow and I can't wait.

Posted: 11/21/2008 2:45:48 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
I have had my 6920 for a couple of weeks now. There are a few minor scratches on the barrel but not worth talking about. The lower has a couple of little scratches but are barely noticeable. I will be shooting it tomorrow and I can't wait.

where you at in Ky? I would love to join you if you are close to Pike county

Posted: 11/21/2008 3:59:37 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
he said sabre made M4s. not M16s and that was untrue.

Yes, I typed M4 and meant M16. Colt still has the M4 contract and I corrected that in my above post.

Quoted:
FN didnt lose the M16 contract, sabre was awarded a small M16 contract as a small buisness to help out.

FN did indeed lost the contract. Sabre will be providing M16A3/M16A4 for the military until at least 2010.

Quoted:
Sabre has not made M16 type rifles for over 40 years and the M16s sabre does make for the military HAVE to follow by the COLT TDP not what they want an M16 to be, So before you get a chubby, realize Sabre is making rifles the way colt specs them to be so.. It cant be better than a colt. they have to meet the same specs

this is a retarded thread. You guys are so rabid for any excuse to bash colt. Why? most have no real experience with colts CS which i think is fine and have never had a problem

Fit and finish ha!! colts is too busy to give a shit and if you want some GI not to have a rifle because you think colt should spend more time on your fit and finish? OK thats your problem.

I seen plenty nice looking ARs that are not even made correctly, but they are pretty... yeah I need a flawless looking club

yes I like SAbre fine and will buy one as soon as I can, but the truth some dont want to face is, they just havent made them that long and dont have the experience making them.

Tout the Colt love all you want, but not only can Sabre meet Colt's specs on the M16's...they can beat them. Their barrels alone are renowned and their presence in the military extends much further than Colt's M4.

You may not recognize the name Sabre Defence right away, but we're well known to fighting forces all over the world. The reason is simple: the U.S. military is our biggest client. If you see a U.S. Army M2 Browning .50 machine gun or a U.S. Air Force M134 7.62 mm Minigun, it's a sure bet it's using a Sabre Defence barrel.

I'm saying saying Colt is crap, but all this "Colt makes M4's for the military so they must be the bestest gun in the whole world!" rhetoric is really old and outdated.

My biggest beef with Colt is they don't give a shit about the civilian market. I don't give them a penny just because of that. But even with that ugly mark on their record, I still give them the #4 spot on my top 4 AR manufacturers list.

Posted: 11/21/2008 4:08:49 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
And to think, if someone had spend that much on a 1911, and it had scratches like that- they'd throw an absolute shitfit, and it's much easier to make an AR than it is to make a 1911.

The AR is a WORKING gun, it's never been a showpiece of scuptured curves and polished finishes. AT least the front sights are put on correctly, they are not bent or canted, the BBL is indexed correctly, the bolt and BBL are tested and the gun is actually fired to make sure it works.

There are plenty of other AR manufacturers that don't bother to even do the above before they sell them to the public. Heck, I read about them all the time in the "help!" section. I'd rather buy an AR that had a few cosmetic flaws but ran for thousands and thousands of rounds then a flawlwss looking POS that can't make it thru a mag without an issue.

For the Price he paid he SHOULD get an AR with a perfect fit and finish and function 100%. Sabre delivers this and so does several other brands so why the F*** can't Colt do the same? Colts work fine but they suck in fit and finish dept forthe $$$ you spend on them.
Do you buy a new Corvette with scratches all over it and justify it by saying "messed up paint is fine because it still runs like a raped ape"? I think not and you Colt fan boys need to stop drinking the kool-aid!

Skag,you need to realize that COLT makes weapons for our mil. They WORK. They're not like sabre or other brands that have all the time in the world to make guns for people like you,you know,guys that just go to the range and shoot a mag or 2 and then go home and get on their computer. if you are a service man,then I'll take it back,but you probably aren't

.
That being said,I carried a COLT while serving my country. I loved it so much that I bought one bfefore the '94 ban and still own it,with a few other ar's. The COLT is my favorite!

Posted: 11/21/2008 4:12:23 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
ShawnMT6601

this is a retarded thread. You guys are so rabid for any excuse to bash colt. Why? most have no real experience with colts CS which i think is fine and have never had a problem

Fit and finish ha!! colts is too busy to give a shit and if you want some GI not to have a rifle because you think colt should spend more time on your fit and finish? OK thats your problem.

You are correct..

This thread is a prime example of what happens when civy's buy .Mil spec weapons and apply there civy standards.

Your not buying a $15.000 custom K-80 Over/Under shotgun made of blued steel and wood, and your not buying a $2000 Weatherby MKV.

Your buying a Aluminum and steel mass produced weapon that is designed to meet a .Mil specification. Part of that spec requires a durable finish to protect the weapon from the elements and to provide corrosion resistance.

This finish is designed from the ground up to be functionable. not to be aesthetically pleasing to the eye.

Applying your "new car" quality standards to a Military weapon is why your expectations are not met.

And I don't care what .Mil weapon your talking about. to include FN FAL's. There not built for beauty. There built to be a hard use tool designed to withstand the rigors of Military use.

If your think the QC inspectors are going to reject a lot of M4 carbines because of a blemish in the parkerization or tooling marks... then you are always going to be disappointed...

and keep in mind, the AR's that everyone will jump on and say don't look "That way" and look beautiful.... are not being produced for the .Mil, are not made to the same spec and have a higher statistical failure rate based on the lower level of QC testing that is followed in the TDP (Tech data package).

Know what you know, and know what you don't know...

I mean no disrespect but thats BS. We should be able to put our own marks on the darn things they shouldnt come with them already there. Lets use another example other than the "new car" crap. Lets say you purchased a $1200 ACOG and it arrived with a half ass finish and scratched lenses would you return it for another? You know you would. None of that effects function but every last person would return it for another and if say you wouldnt IMO your lieing.

Posted: 11/21/2008 4:13:47 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

My biggest beef with Colt is they don't give a shit about the civilian market. I don't give them a penny just because of that. But even with that ugly mark on their record, I still give them the #4 spot on my top 4 AR manufacturers list.

What real basis do you have for that statement? If they did not care about the civi market then why even bother to produce civi guns? Why did they send two execs to speak out against anti gun legislation earlier this year in Hartford? Even threatening to consider moving Colt out of CT if it passed. Neither of these bills would effect Colt Military or LE sales.

You call us kool aid drinkers for liking Colt yet you are drinking the anti-Colt haterade.

Posted: 11/21/2008 4:14:51 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
You explained your stance in a mature and forthright manner, I respect your opinion and concede that if my Colt had shown up with a flawed finish, yes I too would have been pissed. Colt or not.

I also have to admit that if my COLT came with some cosmetic problems,I might be a little pissed,I really don't know. I guess it depends on how obvious they were. I have seen some COLTs with some very ugly finishes and was surprised that they left the factory that way,although I'm sure that they would have run 100%.

Posted: 11/21/2008 4:17:57 PM EDT

[#42]

LOL, fun times reading the colt lovers make excuses for lousy QC.
Please, please keep it coming.

I wouldn't buy a scratched (new), poorly milled hammer, much less a mighty "mil-spec" $1,300 rifle.

Posted: 11/21/2008 4:19:55 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You explained your stance in a mature and forthright manner, I respect your opinion and concede that if my Colt had shown up with a flawed finish, yes I too would have been pissed. Colt or not.

I also have to admit that if my COLT came with some cosmetic problems,I might be a little pissed,I really don't know. I guess it depends on how obvious they were. I have seen some COLTs with some very ugly finishes and was surprised that they left the factory that way,although I'm sure that they would have run 100%.

Really? I'd be pissed if mine wasn't beat up, I'd probably send it back and ask for one with a few blemishes and scratches

No, I see why someone would be upset. It's understandable. I just don't equate scratches or finish blemishes to poor quality when talking about a massed produced combat rifle.

Posted: 11/21/2008 4:21:29 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
LOL, fun times reading the colt lovers make excuses for lousy QC.
Please, please keep it coming.

I wouldn't buy a scratched (new), poorly milled hammer, much less a mighty "mil-spec" $1,300 rifle.

Feel free to come back to the conversation when you know what you are talking about

Posted: 11/21/2008 4:23:45 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You explained your stance in a mature and forthright manner, I respect your opinion and concede that if my Colt had shown up with a flawed finish, yes I too would have been pissed. Colt or not.

I also have to admit that if my COLT came with some cosmetic problems,I might be a little pissed,I really don't know. I guess it depends on how obvious they were. I have seen some COLTs with some very ugly finishes and was surprised that they left the factory that way,although I'm sure that they would have run 100%.

Really? I'd be pissed if mine wasn't beat up, I'd probably send it back and ask for one with a few blemishes and scratches

No, I see why someone would be upset. It's understandable. I just don't equate scratches or finish blemishes to poor quality when talking about a massed produced combat rifle.

Even the cheapest POS Yugo came dent free.... I'd like the opportunity to bang it up myself, thanks.

Posted: 11/21/2008 4:29:27 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You explained your stance in a mature and forthright manner, I respect your opinion and concede that if my Colt had shown up with a flawed finish, yes I too would have been pissed. Colt or not.

I also have to admit that if my COLT came with some cosmetic problems,I might be a little pissed,I really don't know. I guess it depends on how obvious they were. I have seen some COLTs with some very ugly finishes and was surprised that they left the factory that way,although I'm sure that they would have run 100%.

Really? I'd be pissed if mine wasn't beat up, I'd probably send it back and ask for one with a few blemishes and scratches

No, I see why someone would be upset. It's understandable. I just don't equate scratches or finish blemishes to poor quality when talking about a massed produced combat rifle.

Even the cheapest POS Yugo came dent free.... I'd like the opportunity to bang it up myself, thanks.

Obviously you missed the joke. I'd rather have a scratch/blemish free rifle as well. The last few 6920s I saw were all perfect. When you move a high volume of rifles that have to go through numerous checks and processes (every single gun, not just batch tested) it is bound to happen. Guess what? All the components are to spec and top quality with or without scratches. Don't like it then don't buy it. But don't bash something you know nothing about. There are plenty of other guns I would put right up there with Colt as well.

Posted: 11/21/2008 4:36:20 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You explained your stance in a mature and forthright manner, I respect your opinion and concede that if my Colt had shown up with a flawed finish, yes I too would have been pissed. Colt or not.

I also have to admit that if my COLT came with some cosmetic problems,I might be a little pissed,I really don't know. I guess it depends on how obvious they were. I have seen some COLTs with some very ugly finishes and was surprised that they left the factory that way,although I'm sure that they would have run 100%.

Really? I'd be pissed if mine wasn't beat up, I'd probably send it back and ask for one with a few blemishes and scratches

No, I see why someone would be upset. It's understandable. I just don't equate scratches or finish blemishes to poor quality when talking about a massed produced combat rifle.

See,that's what I'm saying. Every COLT that I've carried/owned has been flawless. A few issued ones were a little "used",but the finish was flawless(no tool marks or anything). Like I said earlier,the COLTs will run 100% regardless of finish!

Posted: 11/21/2008 4:39:09 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You explained your stance in a mature and forthright manner, I respect your opinion and concede that if my Colt had shown up with a flawed finish, yes I too would have been pissed. Colt or not.

I also have to admit that if my COLT came with some cosmetic problems,I might be a little pissed,I really don't know. I guess it depends on how obvious they were. I have seen some COLTs with some very ugly finishes and was surprised that they left the factory that way,although I'm sure that they would have run 100%.

Really? I'd be pissed if mine wasn't beat up, I'd probably send it back and ask for one with a few blemishes and scratches

No, I see why someone would be upset. It's understandable. I just don't equate scratches or finish blemishes to poor quality when talking about a massed produced combat rifle.

thats all I am saying. I dont think scratches make a gun "crap"
how it is made and tested is what counts. If I wanted pretty I would buy a H&H double rifle.

how the hell can a bunch of guys that buy the same kinda rifle get so pissy and argue over something so lame? If you dont want colt dont buy them, I doubt they will feel any economic pain over a few guys mad over a tiny ding. and yes, most are tiny, Plenty of peol want, and will buy quality.

we dont need Obama. we will all end ourselves bitching over "fit and finish"