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Posted: 3/28/2013 7:33:06 PM EDT
[#1]
Lookin' good '57. Put me down for one when it gets to production.
Your attention to detail is amazing. |
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Posted: 3/28/2013 7:40:18 PM EDT
[#2]
57O Brilliant! And.... when are you taking orders...???!!!! 
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Posted: 3/29/2013 9:01:16 AM EDT
[#3]
Thanks for the compliments guys.
I'm going to stitch the files together into a book format for printing after I do a few more little edits. The slings need some detail added and I need to add a bit to the hammers and sears. Quoted:
Lookin' good '57. Put me down for one when it gets to production. Your attention to detail is amazing. Thanks, it's both a gift and a curse. For example, until I figure out how to recreate the dot matrix pattern of the original TM printings, I'll only ever be 99.9% happy with this. 
Once I do the last of the touch ups, I'll see if I can find a printer that's up to the task. |
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Posted: 3/29/2013 10:21:58 AM EDT
[#4]
The dots in the original were probably Zip-A-Tone painstakingly cut to shape and applied to a drafter's render over a photo.
All by hand in those days. |
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Posted: 4/1/2013 5:31:14 PM EDT
[#5]
Assuming the manual is copyright free at this point, I'd contact a few college campuses and find out if any of them have a print shop that can handle course pack productions for their labs and courses. If they do, they can probably print nice quality, bound, books for you.
If you need me to, I know of one print shop here in NC that does excellent work and the main operations manager who shoots in several matches would probably be willing to fit the production in during a slow day. Wes |
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Posted: 4/2/2013 4:15:40 PM EDT
[#6]
Hey thanks! I appreciate the offer.
I haven't checked out the local printing scene yet, so I don't know what I'll be facing. I've been trying to organize the finished pages into a more manageable files. I was finally able to group it up into a single .pdf but, I'll have to check the quality before I go ahead and use it. On that note, what would the hive think is a better presentation? As far as I can tell, the originals are just printed up on loose leaf and stapled together. I can try and use another program to lay it out in proper book format if that would be "better". |
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Posted: 4/2/2013 5:47:36 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Lookin' good '57. Put me down for one when it gets to production. Your attention to detail is amazing. So far it's looking excellent, I also want to be on the list for one when their ready.
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Posted: 4/2/2013 6:34:51 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
On that note, what would the hive think is a better presentation? As far as I can tell, the originals are just printed up on loose leaf and stapled together. I can try and use another program to lay it out in proper book format if that would be "better". Spiral bound would be easy to box and distribute at gun shows as well as ship via US mail if you are looking to make some money. Three ring punched would allow people to put loose rings through it or put it in a hard cover. How many pages total are you looking at here? Thanks Wes |
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Posted: 4/2/2013 6:46:46 PM EDT
[#9]
I'm down for one. Please keep me in mind for a copy.
TC |
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Posted: 4/2/2013 7:07:30 PM EDT
[#10]
I'm interested in one of these as well. Did you ever figure out a price on it yet?
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Posted: 4/3/2013 4:28:37 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Spiral bound would be easy to box and distribute at gun shows as well as ship via US mail if you are looking to make some money. Three ring punched would allow people to put loose rings through it or put it in a hard cover. How many pages total are you looking at here? Thanks Wes Well, it has to be 3 ring punched for correctness, but I'm not sure as to how they were originally bound (loose leaf, or magazine style). I found a genuine, US, AK-47 manual, in the same style, from the same branch and time frame but, I can't remember how it was bound. Quoted:
I'm interested in one of these as well. Did you ever figure out a price on it yet? As soon as I get the format straightened out and see what a print job will run, I'll try and nail it down. I don't want to get in trouble with the mods so, I'd like to avoid too much straight up pricing and sales talk. All I can really say for now is that, it wouldn't more than I'd be willing to spend (and I'm fairly cheap ).
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Posted: 4/5/2013 10:30:37 AM EDT
[#12]
PM Sent.
Wes |
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Posted: 4/15/2013 5:23:44 PM EDT
[#13]
57octane,
Sounded like your message box was having a few issues. Did you the last message I sent, if so IM me back so I know. Thanks Wes |
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Posted: 4/15/2013 6:19:22 PM EDT
[#14]
I was having some issues. It appeared as though some of the messages I was sending, weren't actually going out. Seems to have caused some confusion in my communications with other members as well.
I did get you message and I sent you an IM. 
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Posted: 4/19/2013 8:16:57 PM EDT
[#15]
Surprisingly, or not, I found the AK manual I was looking for at Knob Creek.
It's a 1969 dated Training Manual, no issue number, from Rock Island Weapons Command. It has front and back covers in a light blue card stock, high quality image prints on standard 20 lb or so, off-white paper, with the text in basic typewriter font (likely an Underwood). It's unbound, 3 hole punched with very large holes, almost a half inch, and it was stapled at one point but, the staples have been removed at some point. There's no sigh of rust discoloration so, they were probably removed early on in it's life. Its got a nice "patina" to it, but it's in fairly good condition. When I bought it, it was held together with a zip tie... so, I replaced that with some big, brass, binder clips. They'll be easier on the paper. One interesting thing, is that some of the pages aren't the same size. There are 2 pages that are slightly smaller then the rest. I can't really see why so, that's a mystery to me. Anyway, I wanted this to clear up some details. Given how this is put together, it's likely the XM manuals were done in a similar way. The front cover. (The fine details don't show well.) 
One of the very nicely printed images. (With my XM manual to the right.) 
Text comparison. 
Notice the smaller page. 
Both manuals together. 
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Posted: 4/20/2013 6:43:47 AM EDT
[#16]
I think you may be on to something there!
Looking good! Now just need to figure out how to get that aged look to your cover! |
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Posted: 4/20/2013 6:56:52 AM EDT
[#17]
The AK manual looks like it has rivets in two of the holes but it could be just grime.
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Posted: 4/20/2013 9:39:52 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
The AK manual looks like it has rivets in two of the holes but it could be just grime. Those are brass binder posts. Very old fashioned way of securing paper. When I got it, it was held together with a zip tie and it was wearing away at the holes so, I cut it off and used the biggest posts I had to hold it together. I didn't want to re-staple it, lest I remove some of it's authenticity. Quoted:
I think you may be on to something there! Looking good! Now just need to figure out how to get that aged look to your cover! The paper on both is almost identical, I was really surprised. It's really strange to see such high quality prints on such low quality paper.
Yeah, I'm stumped on how to age it like that. If I soaked the paper in tea or coffee, it would yellow it, but it wouldn't give it those distinctive yellowed edges. I'll have to do some digging. |
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Posted: 4/21/2013 8:36:40 PM EDT
[#19]
The paper on both is almost identical, I was really surprised. It's really strange to see such high quality prints on such low quality paper.
Yeah, I'm stumped on how to age it like that. If I soaked the paper in tea or coffee, it would yellow it, but it wouldn't give it those distinctive yellowed edges. I'll have to do some digging.[/quote] I've been working on some documents but haven't posted any pics because I'm waiting on a crucial part to complete everything. One way to achieve that old look on the documents is to get them a little dirty or airbrush them slightly. Hopefully I'll have the stuff together soon so you could see what I'm talking about. |
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Posted: 4/21/2013 9:18:18 PM EDT
[#20]
Screw "aging" your copies, leave it to me to age them in a cigar smoke filled room for a few weeks.
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Posted: 6/13/2013 3:48:58 AM EDT
[#21]
Don't want this to fall of the board just yet.
I finally got the files together for this. Should make having it printed up infinitely easier. I also managed to get the right dot pattern for the front cover. I'll try and get some test copies done this weekend and if I'm happy with how they turn out... 
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Posted: 6/15/2013 5:23:23 PM EDT
[#22]
I've been working on this project for a long time. I'd already been working on it for several months by the time I first posted last September. Today, I'm happy to say that's it's finally finished!
I had these beauties made today and they sure are nice.
The 2nd page illustration printed just the way I wanted. 
The 5th page illustration, which I further edited to be more correct. I think it looks great now. 
The main part of the maintenance chapter, 
The whole family, and a timeline and look into the mind of a crazy person.
Starting at the top left with the green cover, an XM177E1 manual I hacked together. It's terrible and is what inspired me to undertake this project. Top row center, is my first test copy of the "finished" manual on white paper. Top row right, is the black and white copy, further edited and printed on off white paper. 2nd row, yellow cover, is a test of my PDF file that I used at the print shop. I "aged" it a bit and made it look a bit unique to stand out. 2nd row center is the first proof I had printed today. It looks awesome but, is ultimately a failure. I had to return home and rework the entire thing. It was a simple mistake and it didn't take long to correct. The last one on the 2nd row is the finished deal. I can't really explain how amazing it feels to actually have this done. It's just so cool to know that I finally have a high quality copy that I can use and abuse, turn into a drink coaster, pick up with my hands covered in carbon and gun oil, etc., and have the ink not run all over the place and turn it into an ink blot test.
This really made my day. Oh, please, PLEASE, don't turn this into a sale thread. I do not want to incur the wrath of the mods. This is a pet project and it ain't worth dyin' over.
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Posted: 6/15/2013 6:27:05 PM EDT
[#23]
Well it looks great! But surely you didn't make all those copies for yourself, so...
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Posted: 6/15/2013 6:50:52 PM EDT
[#24]
PM Sent
Wes |
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Posted: 6/16/2013 10:56:41 PM EDT
[#25]
I'd like to have one of those manuals.
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Posted: 6/18/2013 6:02:24 AM EDT
[#26]
I really don't have much to add to this thread...
But one night years ago, while standing Command Post duty, I copied a couple of manuals...The copies are no use to scan, but they do have the pub numbers, which may be of some use in tracking down manuals with interesting data...Like the XM148 Grenade launcher...
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Posted: 6/18/2013 7:45:27 AM EDT
[#27]
Love to have a copy of that top one. Also, the date on it pretty much suggests that the designation "GAU-5/P" was unofficial and all the USAF frankencarbines have been designated GUU-5/P since the beginning.
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Posted: 6/18/2013 12:37:41 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
I really don't have much to add to this thread...
But one night years ago, while standing Command Post duty, I copied a couple of manuals...The copies are no use to scan, but they do have the pub numbers, which may be of some use in tracking down manuals with interesting data...Like the XM148 Grenade launcher... Do you remember the contents of the GAU-5 manual? I'm wondering if it's contents are similar to the XM manual, or maybe even to the earlier CAR-15 manual. I'd love to get my hands on a genuine copy of the XM148 manual. I have one of the small copies you see being circulated in gun shows and it's a really nice book but, I know it's not genuine. Interesting that it was still in print as far up as 1982. I guess they didn't feel the need to make a new manual until the A2 came along. |
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Posted: 6/18/2013 1:40:39 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Do you remember the contents of the GAU-5 manual? Since I put it back in my bookcase, you mean??? No, I don't remember...
You want me to get out of my nice comfortable chair and walk over to my bookcase and look??? 
I'd love to get my hands on a genuine copy of the XM148 manual...
This seems to incorporate elements of the XM148 instructions in the TM 9-1005-249-14...Complete parts listing...That parts graphic...There's also 9 pages on the CONVERSION KIT and CONVERSION KIT MAGAZINE... These TM's were written to induce sleep...And they overwhelmingly succeeded... 
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Posted: 6/18/2013 5:28:54 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Since I put it back in my bookcase, you mean??? No, I don't remember...
You want me to get out of my nice comfortable chair and walk over to my bookcase and look???
Oh no, I couldn't possibly ask such a thing.  All I ask is a quick peek when or if you find yourself out of said chair and also find it convenient.
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Posted: 6/19/2013 2:55:42 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
You want me to get out of my nice comfortable chair and walk over to my bookcase and look???
Oh no, I couldn't possibly ask such a thing. All I ask is a quick peek when or if you find yourself out of said chair and also find it convenient.
OK...Just the TOCs will be somewhere between 12 - 15 pages...
I'll try to get to it this week...If my heart doesn't give out first...
Edit: TOCs sent! Heart just barely working... |
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Posted: 6/24/2013 1:38:15 PM EDT
[#32]
Excellent work! ETA: I ordered the companion TM 9-1005-249-14 (01AUG66) from Moore Militaria to go with it; and a TM 9-1005-211-34 (22JUN64) to bring the order to minimum and complete the picture shown above. |
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Posted: 6/26/2013 9:01:12 AM EDT
[#33]
Chris, back in Oct. 2012 when I volunteered to get a PDF copy of my manual and sent it to you I specifically asked you to promise you weren't going to sell copies. You agreed to my request.
I see you have not honored our agreement. I am disappointed. On top of this, instead of carefully removing the staples myself before I brought it to the copy store I let them do it and they frayed the area around the top staple holes. Never again. |
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Posted: 6/26/2013 12:04:43 PM EDT
[#34]
I have reported you to the Admin. since it's obvious you intend to sell your precious copies. You have continously updated your copying progress in this thread, and encourgaged the membership to buy a copy from you when you determine the price and announce it on this forum. I have no idea what Admin will do, but I hope they suspend or ban you.
You weren't even considerate enough to extend a "Thank you Malysh" to me on this forum. Or, even send me a free copy (which I don't want anyway). Here is how you should have conducted yourself: A few years back I obtained the original A.I. blueprints of the AR-10 Portuguese bayonet when I bought the bayonet from a lady seller advertising on German firearms website. The lady selling the bayonet was Dutch. She lives in Hembrug/Zaandam. Via email she told me there would also be a surprise in the box. Two A.I. bluprints, one dated January 1960 of the bayonet, and one dated June 1960 of the scabbard. I had full size copies made for about 6-7 AR-10 collecting friends of mine, including Ekie and Carbine Kid, and Charlie Logan, a well known AR-10 collector and S.O.T. I also requested my friends not make copies and sell them. Not once in all this time have they ignored my wishes. None have ever been seen for sale that I can see on the internet. You are not to be trusted again as far as I am concerned. Out |
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Posted: 6/26/2013 12:20:58 PM EDT
[#35]
Mike, I'm very sorry that you have forgotten my words.
I will quote my words from the email I sent you: "It's still very much a hobby project but, if at some point I'm happy enough to offer my own version to the retro community, I may do so. Rest assured though that I wont be using your copy, or anyone else's for that matter, if that time does come. I just couldn't do that, from both a moral, and an artistic standpoint."
I have stuck by that statement. The manuals I have made are 100% my creation. I had the bulk of my work done in July 2012 and based on a public domain copy I found on Scribd in June of 2012. I spent countless hours tracking down the correct fonts, re-drawing images by hand multiple times both physically and digitally and generally slaving away over my computer to create something better than was originally available to me. I have not reproduced the files you sent me in any way shape or form as we agreed upon. I am very disappointed that you would accuse me of theft publicly and get the site administration involved instead of first contacting me like an adult and attempting to ascertain the truth before pointing fingers. Any members that bought one, did so privately, through me, not through AR15.com. I have not, and will not advocate breaking the rules of this website for personal gain. |
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Posted: 6/26/2013 1:01:55 PM EDT
[#36]
Tagging this, so I can devote my attention when I'm finished with drama elsewhere on the site.
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Posted: 6/26/2013 1:29:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Mike, I'm very sorry that you have forgotten my words. I will quote my words from the email I sent you: "It's still very much a hobby project but, if at some point I'm happy enough to offer my own version to the retro community, I may do so. Rest assured though that I wont be using your copy, or anyone else's for that matter, if that time does come. I just couldn't do that, from both a moral, and an artistic standpoint."
I have stuck by that statement. The manuals I have made are 100% my creation. I had the bulk of my work done in July 2012 and based on a public domain copy I found on Scribd in June of 2012. I spent countless hours tracking down the correct fonts, re-drawing images by hand multiple times both physically and digitally and generally slaving away over my computer to create something better than was originally available to me. I have not reproduced the files you sent me in any way shape or form as we agreed upon. I am very disappointed that you would accuse me of theft publicly and get the site administration involved instead of first contacting me like an adult and attempting to ascertain the truth before pointing fingers. Any members that bought one, did so privately, through me, not through AR15.com. I have not, and will not advocate breaking the rules of this website for personal gain. Pure garbage |
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Posted: 6/26/2013 1:36:48 PM EDT
[#38]
Quite frankly, I don't care about your opinion. Like it or not, your not the only one that owns a copy of this manual.
I'll actually go so far as to break my word to you and offer the files you sent me, along with my own, to anyone who wants to see the difference so that they may decide for themselves. I have nothing to hide. |
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Posted: 6/27/2013 7:36:21 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
I had the bulk of my work done in July 2012 and based on a public domain copy I found on Scribd in June of 2012. Interesting... First google result when you search "POMM 9-1005-294-14" is a Scribd result from Sep 2010: http://www.scribd.com/doc/38184567/POMM-9-1005-294-14-XM177E2-SMG-1967 http://lmgtfy.com/?q=POMM+9-1005-294-14 The second result from the above google search sends you to a thread from June 30, 2012 made by 57Octane asking for the manual by the POM 9-1005-294-14 reference: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=577931 I'll be curious to see how this plays out. Wes |
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Posted: 6/28/2013 4:06:04 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
The second result from the above google search sends you to a thread from June 30, 2012 made by 57Octane asking for the manual by the POM 9-1005-294-14 reference: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=577931 When I found it, I was looking for the CAR-15 version listed in The Black Rifle to make an accessory for my weapons crate. At the time, I didn't see that it was referencing the M16 manual. After no one responded to that thread, I decided to alter the E2 version into the CAR-15 version. I took the manual from Scribd and re-wrote the text for the CAR-15. I edited all of the E2 pictures to show an E1. You can see that finished work here, in my thread from April 2012, in a post from... wait for it... July 13, 2012. complete with spelling errors on the front cover. http://3gn.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=570614 It was just a matter of taking, re-editing what I'd done, and taking it to the next level. At some point after, I contacted m1sniper because I was missing a page. He sent me a picture of that page, I re-made it, and sent him what I had done to confirm I wasn't missing anything else. Shortly after I posted this thread in September, and as you can see in the first post, I was already done with the front cover, and page 22, and was already working on the other illustrations. That's what took so long, re-drawing all of those pictures. Why did I do that? Because they all suck. The originals suck, the Scribd copies suck, the files he sent me suck, and my 1980 manual sucks. I wanted to make something that didn't suck, and it took a lot more effort than copying and pasting a crappy image. Photoshop can do cool things, but it can't polish a turd. 
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Posted: 6/28/2013 6:21:36 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I had the bulk of my work done in July 2012 and based on a public domain copy I found on Scribd in June of 2012. Interesting... First google result when you search "POMM 9-1005-294-14" is a Scribd result from Sep 2010: Wes That POMM is a supplement to TM 9-1005-249-14, 26 pages...I see why 57octane was curious about the Air Force TM 11W3-5-5-1-1...They seem to be similar documents, the pics look the same, the basic information is formatted similarly...(Although the POMM is in a 'typewritten' font, while the TM is formatted like a Word document)... I really don't see why there is any acrimony...The POMM (and the TM and TO) are public domain, available to anyone... Cleaning it up and re-drawing the pics are an interesting endeavor, but not necessarily essential for display purposes...And if the AF TM is any indicator, the Scribd copy is missing some pages...(TOC, Illustration List)... |
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Posted: 7/5/2013 2:52:32 PM EDT
[#42]
Got it today, Thanks Again Octane57 !
 " /> |
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Posted: 7/5/2013 3:56:55 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Tagging this, so I can devote my attention when I'm finished with drama elsewhere on the site. It's kind of a boring evening (Yankees are losing)...Does anyone know what the drama elsewhere was???
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Posted: 7/9/2013 6:36:52 PM EDT
[#44]
As a point, I doubt that the OP is making ANY money on what he charged me for a copy, between shipping, cost of materials, and his time, not to mention all the time he spent trying to make the material look better. It's clear that he just wants to share this work with the guys here at the retro forum, and I've been following his efforts to reproduce one of these manuals. I'd really like to find one for an E1 myself. I have no dog in this fight, but intent is everything. If his intent was to actually make money at this, he's made it a losing proposition - I don't see anyway he's making any money, we're just paying for materials and shipping. Just my .02 - cheaper than photocopied BS I've seen on ebay BTW.
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Posted: 7/11/2013 11:38:53 AM EDT
[#45]
I'd thought this section was free of the BS. It happens, you just can't please everyone.
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Posted: 7/11/2013 8:53:16 PM EDT
[#46]
57Octane sent you an IM but figured I would drop a pic also to see if anything catches your eye for your next project.
Great work buddy, keep it up!
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Posted: 7/11/2013 8:54:17 PM EDT
[#47]
Sorry I haven't got back to you sooner for one of those,57Octane. Had a major heat attack a couple weeks ago so I've kinda been out of the loop.
Hopefully,you will still have one left. |
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Posted: 7/11/2013 9:03:42 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
57Octane sent you an IM but figured I would drop a pic also to see if anything catches your eye for your next project. Great work buddy, keep it up!
<a href="http://imageshack.com/i/ebv6fmj/" target="_blank">http://imageshack.com/a/img515/9105/v6fm.jpg</a> But... But... what if Malysh sent him those manuals first....?? They would be hyper top secret manuals that belong to his intellectual property rights! 
Nice collection Riggs!
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Posted: 7/12/2013 4:27:10 AM EDT
[#49]
Very nicely done
I'd love to have one of these. hopefully in the not so distant future I can start a 177 build. That dammed MACV-SOG thread in GD has me reading about the teams... and now I really really want to build one. |
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Posted: 8/2/2013 5:39:49 PM EDT
[#50]
I'd just like to note that these were very well done. I have a good friend that I'm going to give one to for X-mass.
Thanks again! Wes |
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