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Posted: 4/1/2009 8:08:58 PM EDT
[#1]
and i know for a fact, that if that FUG was brought to Larue's attention
it would have been promptly replaced no questions asked |
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Posted: 4/1/2009 8:14:23 PM EDT
[#2]
To date I am aware of 3 LT bolts that have broken. All had well over 10K rounds on them and a lot of FA action in carbines. One LT barrel that got shot out. 17K rounds, a lot of it FA.
I personally broke an LT mount on an iron-dot. Truth be told, my Benelli M4 did. The rail on those is not mil-spec and it peened the "foot" of the mount BAD using 3" slugs. LT told me it would work on the rail when I purchased it, and I didn't know better. I called them, they informed me the rail was not mil-spec and not compatable with their mount. I politely told them that they advised me to purchase it. The politely told me to send it to them for a full refund or replacement. I chose refund as I had no need of a new one being as my weapon was not compatble. They happily obliged me. LT may come across a bit combatative on the forums and may be a bit snappy on the phone at times, but if you ever need them, they ARE there for you. It's rough being at the top and you can't blame them for being a bit frazzled right now. |
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Posted: 4/1/2009 11:34:06 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Although I think Larue is way overpriced, I looked at those pics and saw that it broke in a severly cold environment. Any plastic/polymer will shatter at super cold temps. I broke a manadnoc PR24 in the winter in 20 below weather. Manadnoc batons and PR24's are considered indestructible. I would assume a Larue Verticle grip is no exception. Not a fair pic. I still think LaRue is way overpriced ..... but, lets be fair. Steel fails if it's too cold. Off topic I know, but LT products are similarly priced with the sub standard competition yet somehow they are "way overpriced"? 
Anyway... C_J, good luck with your quest. |
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Posted: 4/1/2009 11:37:01 PM EDT
[#4]
I know of four LT products that failed in military use, all rails. Mark told me that those four were half of the failures reported to date.
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Posted: 4/2/2009 3:09:53 AM EDT
[#5]
Have you any details as to what caused the failures? Pretty extreme circumstances I assume.
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Posted: 4/2/2009 4:09:55 AM EDT
[#6]
They were probably in a vehicle when it got hit by an IED and a RPG at the same time, while simultaneously being subjected to Indirect fire. Even then, it probably took being run over by an M1 Abrams to get the thing to actually fail. I consider that acceptable.
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Posted: 4/2/2009 4:14:24 AM EDT
[#7]
You could place the average ARFcommer in an empty field with an anvil and no tools for two hours, and when you come back the anvil would be broken.
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Posted: 4/2/2009 4:22:54 AM EDT
[#8]
Hmm....
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Posted: 4/2/2009 4:32:27 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
I doubt you'll find any broken LaRue mounts. The rifle would break off at the rail first. 
It's all in the perspective. |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 5:19:14 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
I know of four LT products that failed in military use, all rails. Mark told me that those four were half of the failures reported to date. If you let something big run over your rifle some things just happen. |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 5:48:41 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: Although I think Larue is way overpriced, I looked at those pics and saw that it broke in a severly cold environment. Any plastic/polymer will shatter at super cold temps. I broke a manadnoc PR24 in the winter in 20 below weather. Manadnoc batons and PR24's are considered indestructible. I would assume a Larue Verticle grip is no exception. Not a fair pic. I still think LaRue is way overpriced ..... but, lets be fair. Steel fails if it's too cold. Didn't they also test the grip without an end cap in place in that case? |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 5:49:19 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Although I think Larue is way overpriced, I looked at those pics and saw that it broke in a severly cold environment. Any plastic/polymer will shatter at super cold temps. I broke a manadnoc PR24 in the winter in 20 below weather. Manadnoc batons and PR24's are considered indestructible. I would assume a Larue Verticle grip is no exception. Not a fair pic. I still think LaRue is way overpriced ..... but, lets be fair. Steel fails if it's too cold. Wait the fug is plastic? For nearly 90 bucks i thought it was milled aluminum. |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 5:49:30 AM EDT
[#13]
I use quite a bit of LaRue stuff, that I paid for....
Anything man-made will have a failure rate. It seems that LaRue products have a very low one, but to say they can't or don't break is just stupid. Stop it already. |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 5:52:32 AM EDT
[#14]
Here is my larue TA33 mount after 2 years deployed.
Aint no breaks yet. I have personally broken several arms products, and have been to a training area where little arms levers were littering the ground. |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 6:03:48 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Here is my larue TA33 mount after 2 years deployed. http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/9514/p4020003.jpg Aint no breaks yet. I have personally broken several arms products, and have been to a training area where little arms levers were littering the ground. But you are not using your ACOG (RCO) as a step up to get into an armored vehicle like some dumbasses are. |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 6:32:36 AM EDT
[#16]
When I was a kid my brother broke his arm..............
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Posted: 4/2/2009 6:34:14 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
When I was a kid my brother broke his arm.............. Is your last name Larue....? |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 6:37:24 AM EDT
[#18]
It is easy to see that the FUG in question was broken in a deliberate manner. I have worked in the plastics industry for years now in both production, quality control / assurance, and product testing using and testing many different products composed of many different plastic blends, with many different thicknesses and properties, including a lot of delrin products.. The unique properties of delrin make this (these) fractures much more obvious as not a single impact. Delrin is a very solid and smooth material. Because of this, snaps and breaks leave straight stress lines in the fracture area. In the picture, the fracture marks are curved, implying a twisting or torsion stress, not a single point impact fracture. Also the "crack" going up the side of the FUG is a different fracture than the first one shown. The vertical fracture must have been caused my massive internal force. I believe, after all my training and experience, that these are deliberately cause fractures, most likely from the inside of the FUG out, such as a prying or twisting under pressure.
I would love to examine the FUG in question in person. But I highly doubt that would happen
 . I would be able to do a full QA report on it. |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 6:46:11 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Although I think Larue is way overpriced, I looked at those pics and saw that it broke in a severly cold environment. Any plastic/polymer will shatter at super cold temps. I broke a manadnoc PR24 in the winter in 20 below weather. Manadnoc batons and PR24's are considered indestructible. I would assume a Larue Verticle grip is no exception. Not a fair pic. I still think LaRue is way overpriced ..... but, lets be fair. Steel fails if it's too cold. Delrin does do well at cold temperatures, IIRC. And some new polymers are getting to be very good at that temp, even down to 40 or 50 below. |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 7:00:42 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Quoted: Although I think Larue is way overpriced, I looked at those pics and saw that it broke in a severly cold environment. Any plastic/polymer will shatter at super cold temps. I broke a manadnoc PR24 in the winter in 20 below weather. Manadnoc batons and PR24's are considered indestructible. I would assume a Larue Verticle grip is no exception. Not a fair pic. I still think LaRue is way overpriced ..... but, lets be fair. Steel fails if it's too cold. Delrin does do well at cold temperatures, IIRC. And some new polymers are getting to be very good at that temp, even down to 40 or 50 below. You are correct. Delrin does good under cold conditions, it will become slightly more brittle, not nearly as much as normal materials. Delrin will swell a bit if left in direct sun for a period of time, but it wont be visually noticeable. We did A LOT of R&D and climate testing for automotive parts made of delrin, that are under much more stress than a FUG is. |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 7:03:53 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
You are correct. Delrin does good under cold conditions, it will become slightly more brittle, not nearly as much as normal materials. Delrin will swell a bit if left in direct sun for a period of time, but it wont be visually noticeable. We did A LOT of R&D and climate testing for automotive parts made of delrin, that are under much more stress than a FUG is. Bushings? |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 7:07:13 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Quoted: You are correct. Delrin does good under cold conditions, it will become slightly more brittle, not nearly as much as normal materials. Delrin will swell a bit if left in direct sun for a period of time, but it wont be visually noticeable. We did A LOT of R&D and climate testing for automotive parts made of delrin, that are under much more stress than a FUG is. Bushings? |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 7:08:20 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You are correct. Delrin does good under cold conditions, it will become slightly more brittle, not nearly as much as normal materials. Delrin will swell a bit if left in direct sun for a period of time, but it wont be visually noticeable. We did A LOT of R&D and climate testing for automotive parts made of delrin, that are under much more stress than a FUG is. Bushings? understood, just idle curiosity. I now have a bunch of parts with "del-a-lum" bushings on the car in my avatar. |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 7:17:45 AM EDT
[#24]
no such pictures exist..........
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Posted: 4/2/2009 7:17:48 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
The #40 is the one ARMS product worth not throwing in the trash. Just loc-tite it. My ARMS M68 mount is great too, the thing needed nothing and has been abused and served well for 10 years. |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 7:33:44 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
It is easy to see that the FUG in question was broken in a deliberate manner. I have worked in the plastics industry for years now in both production, quality control / assurance, and product testing using and testing many different products composed of many different plastic blends, with many different thicknesses and properties, including a lot of delrin products.. The unique properties of delrin make this (these) fractures much more obvious as not a single impact. Delrin is a very solid and smooth material. Because of this, snaps and breaks leave straight stress lines in the fracture area. In the picture, the fracture marks are curved, implying a twisting or torsion stress, not a single point impact fracture. Also the "crack" going up the side of the FUG is a different fracture than the first one shown. The vertical fracture must have been caused my massive internal force. I believe, after all my training and experience, that these are deliberately cause fractures, most likely from the inside of the FUG out, such as a prying or twisting under pressure. I would love to examine the FUG in question in person. But I highly doubt that would happen . I would be able to do a full QA report on it.I saw that too... it looks like a screwdriver or something was stuck in the bottom and the grip was pried from the inside out. Not to say that it couldn't happen... but even if it did, Mark would have a new one in your hand in a couple days. |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 7:45:42 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
The #40 is the one ARMS product worth not throwing in the trash. Just loc-tite it. I've had nothing but success with mine, and I've used them for a while. When they break, I'll buy Larue. |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 7:49:03 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The #40 is the one ARMS product worth not throwing in the trash. Just loc-tite it. My ARMS M68 mount is great too, the thing needed nothing and has been abused and served well for 10 years. Same here, and when it breaks, I'll look at Larue. |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 7:58:59 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: I saw that too... it looks like a screwdriver or something was stuck in the bottom and the grip was pried from the inside out. Not to say that it couldn't happen... but even if it did, Mark would have a new one in your hand in a couple days. That is exactly my thought. The damage is just amazingly inconsistent with how the incident was described. Oh and the damage is also absolutely IMPOSSIBLE if the plug was inserted in the bottom of the grip. The delrin shows an outward break pattern, suggesting that force was applied from within the grip when no plug was present. |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 8:09:34 AM EDT
[#30]
I've got a LaRue hat that is almost worn out.
I'm not in a mount-buying phase right now; I want to get another AR built up and some ammo socked away before I worry about more mounts - but as it is, an aimpoint mount is on my list, and if I get another aimpoint, it too will go in a LaRue mount. The one LaRue mount I have is a LT104 on my 6.8 SPC upper. I have one complaint about it: It has this annoying habit of returning to zero every time I remove and remount it, so that I simply can't blame the mount if I shoot at something and miss. As it is, though, I haven't missed anything with that rifle yet, so I guess it's a moot point. Good luck with your search for broken LaRue stuff. 
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Posted: 4/2/2009 8:19:20 AM EDT
[#31]
A little off topic, but does the quick throw lever rub a bare spot in the park. on the under side of the picatinny rail? Just wondering because I have been wanting to mount a LT fixed buis on my LMT.
Live free or Die, awesome! |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 8:24:59 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
This doesn't work anymore for some reason. http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss300/cdm024/IMG_2806.jpg  I recently ordered from larue for the first time and got: tan hat, dillo dust, 2 bumper sticks, black dillo
I haven't ever tried dillo dust, but I see the addicts posting about it all the time,
I also just got a billet Larue upper with M4 cuts from BCM about 20 mins ago.  +1 for the Dillo Dust. It's pretty tasty. +1,000,000 for the EOTech + Larue QD mount for my flat top AR. |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 8:25:57 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
I too have a complaint against LaRue... They don't ship bigger bottles of the Dillo dust with your order...Hell, if they make a LaRuge' lipstick I'd buy it for my wife. WHAT A TURN ON!!! That would be teh hotness. |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 8:53:19 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
A little off topic, but does the quick throw lever rub a bare spot in the park. on the under side of the picatinny rail? Just wondering because I have been wanting to mount a LT fixed buis on my LMT. Live free or Die, awesome! The lever leaves some kind of mark, but it you wipe it with a rag most of it goes away. I'm not sure exactly what it is. |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 8:58:38 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
A little off topic, but does the quick throw lever rub a bare spot in the park. ANODIZING on the under side of the picatinny rail? Just wondering because I have been wanting to mount a LT fixed buis on my LMT. Live free or Die, awesome! It will leave a slight mark, depending on how tight your levers are set. Set them right and the mark is negligible. |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 9:47:12 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I saw that too... it looks like a screwdriver or something was stuck in the bottom and the grip was pried from the inside out. Not to say that it couldn't happen... but even if it did, Mark would have a new one in your hand in a couple days. That is exactly my thought. The damage is just amazingly inconsistent with how the incident was described. Oh and the damage is also absolutely IMPOSSIBLE if the plug was inserted in the bottom of the grip. The delrin shows an outward break pattern, suggesting that force was applied from within the grip when no plug was present. I keep thinking they gave away the vital clue, "cold"...... Would the damage be similar if someone filled the FUG with water, tightened the cap, then froze it? |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 10:48:07 AM EDT
[#37]
My La Rue Po-Boy Special is broke. It has not a penny to its name.
Even unfunded, it works as advertised.
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Posted: 4/2/2009 10:59:31 AM EDT
[#38]
The REASON there are NO photos of broken Larue mounts is that Larue does NOT use MIM parts! The competition does!
MIM = CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Larue = QUALITY PursuitSS |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 11:26:29 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wow, I've never heard "Larue" and "broken" in the same sentence. Thats because it doesn't happen.. Yea it does. It happens all the time. "This cheapass mount I bought is broken, so I threw it away and bought a Larue."
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Posted: 4/2/2009 11:28:11 AM EDT
[#40]
Don't think you will find any of said pictures.
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Posted: 4/2/2009 11:39:21 AM EDT
[#41]
I'm waiting for Mark to jump in here and post some pics of some broken mounts and rails................
maybe after a helicopter crashed on them, or an abrams ran over one......
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Posted: 4/2/2009 12:24:11 PM EDT
[#42]
tag
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Posted: 4/2/2009 12:33:03 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I saw that too... it looks like a screwdriver or something was stuck in the bottom and the grip was pried from the inside out. Not to say that it couldn't happen... but even if it did, Mark would have a new one in your hand in a couple days. That is exactly my thought. The damage is just amazingly inconsistent with how the incident was described. Oh and the damage is also absolutely IMPOSSIBLE if the plug was inserted in the bottom of the grip. The delrin shows an outward break pattern, suggesting that force was applied from within the grip when no plug was present. I keep thinking they gave away the vital clue, "cold"...... Would the damage be similar if someone filled the FUG with water, tightened the cap, then froze it? Hmmmm sound theory, but in my experience, the damage pattern is not consistent with expanding internal pressure. The threads on the cap would have contracted a slight amount and in all likelihood allowed the water to drain before it would have froze. We had conducted somewhat similar tests for a "major water bottle and outdoor gear" manufacturer looking into the possibility of making either a delrin bottle, or a delrin and PRI compound bottle. I am sure most all of you are framiliar with this type of outdoor bottle. It withstood the freezing very well and didnt crack, but they overlooked the fact that delrin is easy to stain and retains a scent and stained color for a loooong ass time, so anything but water in the bottle would FUBAR it. |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 1:11:22 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
I'm waiting for Mark to jump in here and post some pics of some broken mounts and rails................ maybe after a helicopter crashed on them, or an abrams ran over one..... . Hmmm, I thought I would start to limit my forum work to odd numbered days only ... oh well, someone emailed this thread to me. Funny thing, the moment I saw the title, I knew JAYTEAM would post his Mickey-Mouse bullsh*t. Hey, on the same subject, we had our LT3G this past weekend. No LaRue kit broke, not even the EOtech mounted on the 14,000 rounds of Mini-Gun. But out ot the four A.R.M.S. mounts that showed up for the match, one broke a lever off. Luckily we had someone inbound from the shop, and they ran one of our ACOG mounts up, and viola', the soldier was back in the game. A 25% breakage rate, I'm thinking that ain't half as bad as I've been led to believe. Now, back to your regularly scheduled show. 
ML ETA - FUG it all, I gotta go fill a FUG with water and throw it in the freezer. |
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Posted: 4/2/2009 1:33:28 PM EDT
[#45]
I can't of any LaRue stuff I have seen broken, not even pictures here. I've seen pictures of the busted ARMS lever but never seen it in person. Do they get broken from removal and reinstallation or what?
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Posted: 4/2/2009 2:00:11 PM EDT
[#46]
I haven't seen any broke LaRue parts but I sure can tell you that I broke my bank account today buying stuff from the website.
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Posted: 4/2/2009 2:13:06 PM EDT
[#47]
While we are at it, does anyone have photos of chicken teeth?
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Posted: 4/2/2009 2:25:48 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm waiting for Mark to jump in here and post some pics of some broken mounts and rails................ maybe after a helicopter crashed on them, or an abrams ran over one..... . Hmmm, I thought I would start to limit my forum work to odd numbered days only ... oh well, someone emailed this thread to me. Funny thing, the moment I saw the title, I knew JAYTEAM would post his Mickey-Mouse bullsh*t. Hey, on the same subject, we had our LT3G this past weekend. No LaRue kit broke, not even the EOtech mounted on the 14,000 rounds of Mini-Gun. But out ot the four A.R.M.S. mounts that showed up for the match, one broke a lever off. Luckily we had someone inbound from the shop, and they ran one of our ACOG mounts up, and viola', the soldier was back in the game. A 25% breakage rate, I'm thinking that ain't half as bad as I've been led to believe. Now, back to your regularly scheduled show.
ML ETA - FUG it all, I gotta go fill a FUG with water and throw it in the freezer. Now you're thinking like us Michiganders Mark!
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Posted: 4/2/2009 4:33:20 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Quoted:
<snip> ETA - FUG it all, I gotta go fill a FUG with water and throw it in the freezer. Now you're thinking like us Michiganders Mark! Done and in the freezer.
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Posted: 4/3/2009 7:20:09 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
<snip> ETA - FUG it all, I gotta go fill a FUG with water and throw it in the freezer. Now you're thinking like us Michiganders Mark! Done and in the freezer. For those of you following this, I got results ... I can tell ya that, as expected, the water froze and expanded in the water-filled FUG. It cracked it just like it would your PVC water pipes under the house. Big shocker. So, we'll have to add a warning "DO NOT FILL YOUR FUG PLUM FULL OF WATER AND THEN STICK IT IN THE FREEZER". FYI, the flanged tailcap cracked top to bottom. So, in the interest of science, I just filled a second FUG with water, but this time with the stub tailcap. Pics to follow.
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