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Posted: 9/29/2004 10:09:26 AM EDT
[#1]
The BH rounds do not have crimped primer pockets. This means if a primer separates for any reason, it might become lodged in the action or trigger group. Crimped primer pockets generally prevent the primer from separating.
-z |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 10:10:45 AM EDT
[#2]
True, but since they're loaded to SAAMI specs, it's not really needed, IMO. |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 10:58:53 AM EDT
[#3]
Are the BH red boxes and blue boxes loaded to the same velocity?
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Posted: 9/29/2004 12:20:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Yes, usually but Brouahaha and I shot a Red box that was out of spec and almost at NATO pressures. They asked for the ammo to be retund and sent some extra boxes to make up for it and stated the Red and Blue should be identical in velocity.
Also the bullets are not sealed on any of these loads but the primers ARE. The 75 grain rounds has less TOTAL fragmentation than the 77 grain Nosler but it still has the shorter neck and thus will have the better wound profile on full frontal unobstructed chest shots. |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 3:20:39 PM EDT
[#5]
I just haven't seen it go to 150. I haven't tested 125 meters. Just 100 and 150 on the 75 Hornady. Now I wish I had. |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 4:20:04 PM EDT
[#6]
How much ammo do you need for testing? I'd be willing to buy it. If there are other costs (like the gel), I'd kick in for that too. 
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Posted: 9/29/2004 5:18:58 PM EDT
[#7]
bookhound If you are worried you can always use a little bit of finger nail polish .
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Posted: 9/30/2004 3:23:49 AM EDT
[#8]
Cool. Thanks for the tip.
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Posted: 9/30/2004 2:46:10 PM EDT
[#9]
What do you mean by you haven't "seen it go to 150"? Are you saying it did not fragment at 150 meters in your testing? |
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Posted: 10/3/2004 12:31:02 AM EDT
[#10]
Just to clarify: does the blue box 75grain BH have a cannelure?
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Posted: 10/3/2004 1:21:53 PM EDT
[#11]
No |
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Posted: 10/3/2004 1:34:39 PM EDT
[#12]
77 SMK *is* exactly what you've heard it is... It's also one of the most popular bullets used in loading rounds for NRA match use... |
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Posted: 10/3/2004 1:36:22 PM EDT
[#13]
The 'normal' BH load is NOT designed for combat use, it's a match round for NRA hi-power matches... |
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Posted: 10/3/2004 2:00:00 PM EDT
[#14]
But is there any difference other than the velocity? If not, the effective range is just reduced about 25m. -z |
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Posted: 10/3/2004 2:09:52 PM EDT
[#15]
So what happened with Georgia Precision and the BH NATO loaded 77 grain?
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Posted: 10/3/2004 2:32:21 PM EDT
[#16]
+1 |
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Posted: 10/3/2004 5:24:07 PM EDT
[#17]
The Black Hills ammo order was cancelled. This was stated previoiusly in this thread. You cannot get it. It is not avaialable. I hope that makes it more clear.
The combat 77 grain SMK has a cannelure to prevent set back. As loaded in the MK 262 Mod1 is also is at NATO pressure and has a crimpped primer. You dont need the crimpped primer if using SAAMI pressures but I would not use an uncannelured bullet for self defense in an auto loading rifle due to possible setback and malfunctions that could get you killed. I would not use cannelured bullets for match shooting either as they can harm accuracy. Decide what your ammo is for and select accordingly. The best factotry load for self defense is the 75 grain Hornady TAP. Black Hills (all that I have and have shot though they vary once in a while) does not have a cannelured bullet. The best factory load for accuracy is the Black Hills 77 grain ammo loaded with an uncannelured SMK. |
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Posted: 10/3/2004 5:27:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Hi DevL, Any idea what the average expected accuracy difference between these two rds. is at say 300yrds? Thanks in advance. |
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Posted: 10/3/2004 5:30:15 PM EDT
[#19]
They obviously aren't using BH ammo, but the High Power guys seem to prefer the 75gr Hornady. Here is a link to the loads used at Camp Perry this year: www.demigod.org/~zak/tmp/Camp%20Perry%20223%20load%20data.jpg -z |
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Posted: 10/3/2004 6:01:41 PM EDT
[#20]
Good scoop! Thanks Zak.
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Posted: 10/3/2004 8:49:29 PM EDT
[#21]
Fired from a Crane Built SPR the SMK was noticeably more accurate. Fired from my M4 carbine they were nearly identical. I have done no accuracy testing at 300 yards with cannelured 75 grain ammo. I have done 100 yards with the SPR and M4 and 300 with the SPR. I am sure individual rifles will like one ammo or another more. There are people who get sub .5 MOA with 68 grain OTM but I cannot for example. I guess what I am trying to say is shoot both loads in YOUR rifle to see the difference and make a decision from there.
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Posted: 10/4/2004 2:35:07 AM EDT
[#22]
I ask because it is still advertised on the Georgia Precision website. |
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Posted: 10/4/2004 3:41:20 AM EDT
[#23]
Agreed. I was wondering about that too.... and no, I wasn't unclear as to "if" it was cancelled (as it "clearly" seems to be the case), but rather if anyone knew why it was cancelled? |
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Posted: 10/4/2004 6:18:48 AM EDT
[#24]
What it is designed for is irrelevant. The 77gr Noslers and 77gr SMKs were also designed for Hi-Power matches... |
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Posted: 10/4/2004 7:02:55 AM EDT
[#25]
Correct. |
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Posted: 10/4/2004 7:51:20 AM EDT
[#26]
I guess the consensus, for a combat load is the 75grain TAP, and not the blue box?
Bummer, the TAP is almost as expensive as crack cocaine 
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Posted: 10/4/2004 7:53:35 AM EDT
[#27]
I'm working on this problem right now. |
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Posted: 10/4/2004 8:21:41 AM EDT
[#28]
Working on what problem? |
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Posted: 10/4/2004 8:24:48 AM EDT
[#29]
Isn't it obvious?  It should be fragmenting at 150, so I'm setting things up to find out why it didn't. Just wait and you'll see. |
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Posted: 10/4/2004 8:27:17 AM EDT
[#30]
Use the Blue box for practice and the TAP as your self defense round. You dont need that much for self defense.
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Posted: 10/4/2004 8:30:39 AM EDT
[#31]
As to the WHY was the ammo cancelled... I have recieved IMs claiming GP was using new orders to pay for old ones... I have heard it was because BH would not do a smaller order like they said they would... I have heard it was because the order we had was not large enough... I have heard it was because of the people dropping out of the order. All I know is I asked for a refund and have not had any reply. I waited for months and the ammo never came.
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Posted: 10/4/2004 8:50:52 AM EDT
[#32]
Wow, DevL... sorry to hear that. I was about to place an order for 1000rds when I ran accross this thread...I've got the feeling that I should be glad I waited.
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Posted: 10/4/2004 9:14:14 AM EDT
[#33]
FWIW, I received 1k of the BH NATO rounds in question from GP without a hitch. This was early this year or perhaps even last - ?
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Posted: 10/4/2004 11:20:43 AM EDT
[#34]
The first order went through. I was told I would be onthat order. I was not on that order. When you got your ammo I had already ordered mine. I have been told there will be no ammo. It has been many months... no ammo... no refund... no return Email. I will try calling next.
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Posted: 10/4/2004 1:58:38 PM EDT
[#35]
I understand that a cannelure is important on a round being ued in full auto. Is it as important in a round being used semi auto only? If setback does occur, are we looking at FTF, or KBoom? Also, it is a weapon specific issue? If I got a few thousnd rounds and trained hard with the first k, and had no issue, would it not be reasonale to believe that in the same rifle at the same rates of fire, same climate, etc., that there will not be an issue?
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Posted: 10/4/2004 2:41:21 PM EDT
[#36]
I don´t see the difference between full and semi auto in regards to the cannelure. Bullet setback occurs as the bullet is being fed into the chamber. This occurs at the same rate in both full and semi modes.
I would say that if you went throug 1k of ammo without any malfuntions that you could reasonably assume that the next 1k would operate witih great reliability. |
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Posted: 10/4/2004 5:30:49 PM EDT
[#37]
IM Sent Tommy GPSS |
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Posted: 10/5/2004 1:04:05 AM EDT
[#38]
Correct. Full auto, semi auto, it makes no difference. The round gets shoved in the chamber just as fast on semi as on full auto.
Bolt actions are more gentle on the round so bullet setback is a non issue with them. M16's and AR15's ram 'em home. |
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Posted: 10/5/2004 1:27:43 AM EDT
[#39]
I've got two rounds for my combat load here in Iraq. 8-30 rd mags loaded with Mk 262 Mod 0 and another 9-30s loaded with M855 ball. Have some Hornady 75gr BTHP for testing. I'm shooting a standard 14.5" M4A1 with ACOG.
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Posted: 10/5/2004 10:01:07 AM EDT
[#40]
Please, do post your results. I run 14.5 as well, and I've just started replacing my ready ammo with 75gr TAP. |
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