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Posted: 9/29/2004 6:33:41 AM EDT
[#1]
You can also charge your locked open gun by buttslamming it on the ground but I would prefer the bolt release.
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Posted: 9/29/2004 7:02:55 AM EDT
[#2]
You know, I didn`t mean to start a war as to what is the "correct" way to operate your weapon. Since I only shoot at a range I`m really not to worried about what is "fastest" or most "reliable".
Do it again, thats what happens. No biggie, I don`t think the guy next to me is gonna turn and shoot me cause I failed to lock up my rifle the first try............... If I was ever in a situation where I needed my AR for defense.....I would probably use the bolt release. But at the range I`m gonna spare that wear on the boltface. I have plenty of charging handles laying around so I`d rather replace a worn charging handle than a bolt. Plus, I just happen to like doing it this way......looks cool |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 7:06:49 AM EDT
[#3]
I've used the slide release/bolt release on all my weapons to load the first round and on tactical reloads, and have never had a failure. I don't believe in having useless features on my guns, if it doesn't work, it goes back. Why have a bolt/slide release if it doesn't work properly?
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Posted: 9/29/2004 7:27:59 AM EDT
[#4]
What? You arguing with me now?!? 
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Posted: 9/29/2004 7:58:55 AM EDT
[#5]
My now 13 yr old Glock 17 has nevered failed to fire when using the slide lock/release lever to load the first round, and if it ever did fail, it would be returned or replaced with a weapon that did function properly.
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Posted: 9/29/2004 8:41:01 AM EDT
[#6]
Ok, I admit, I have not been to every firearms academy in the world. But there's an easier way of finding this stuff out from the "experts". Watch an IDPA or IPSC competition and tell me how many guys even touch the slide with their weak hand except to clear a jammed round or to chamber the first round.
The fingering the first round is done while you're bringing it from your belt to your gun. It's actually pretty natural since you almost point at the mag well with your index finger while making sure the first round is properly seated to the back of the mag. Try it out next time you're at the range, it's surprisingly easy and very quick. Like I said before, if the slide release breaks off in your gun, YOU HAVE A SHITTY GUN. I don't care how much you paid for it, I don't care if it's a custom 1911, Glock, whatever. If any part of a pistol has ever broken off, it's a piece of crap and you should NEVER have bought it in the first place, much less had your life rely on it. Finally I agree, you should always reload before you run out of bullets in which case if you get in the habit of pulling back on the slide every time you reload, under stress you might accidentally rack the slide and have one less bullet to work with. That's obviously not going to happen with a slide release. |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 8:50:10 AM EDT
[#7]
No, Im taking on the "conform to the Glock Standard." |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 9:00:47 AM EDT
[#8]
I was taught this on 1911's... In my experience the 1911's are pickey about when and if they chamber that first round and was taught to rack the slide and not use the slide release. This was taught to me in the USMC on the M9 first and when I went through school to be a PMI we were taught the reason was due to feed problems and that the 1911's were famouse for this. I have owned several 45's and almost all the ones I have had that were stock standard normal 1911's had this problem. The one NM Springfield I owned fed flawlessly reguardless of what you did though. |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 9:01:47 AM EDT
[#9]
I also own both Glocks and Sigs and I never use the slide release on either one of those type pistols. I do use it on my AR though.
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Posted: 9/29/2004 9:29:54 AM EDT
[#10]
Yo lump, I said MANY pistols, I did not say all. XD's function the same way in this respect as Glocks. I konw you're an anti conformist!  Now reply to my IM.
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Posted: 9/29/2004 9:30:10 AM EDT
[#11]
I hate to say it, but if some of you have a gun and you're affraid to use a slide release or bolt release because it might break, then the gun is a POS. But I doubt any of you have something like that.
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Posted: 9/29/2004 9:39:53 AM EDT
[#12]
I dont dispute that you were taught this. Im saying I myself never saw it instructed by anyone I interacted with until the Glock became the nearly universal handgun in American law enforcement. After that, the sling shot technique took hold in the instruction circles I was around. Its a replacement for muscle memory and practiced skills. If you know your gun, the slide release is no more difficult to use in my experience and I normally agree with the "gross-motor-skill" school of thought. However, I have seen this technique work very badly for some under stress. Those with sweaty hands and a slippery gun, and especially those with low grip strength. In these cases, many times the sling shot method breaks their dominant hand grip on the gun and forces them to reacquire a solid grip. Not to mention, in my experience its slower for them, and for many, its not as fast staying focused on the threat and reaquiring an index on the target (nor do I see to many of the fast gun-gamers using the sling shot technique). I could be wrong, but this most likely one of the reasons the Washington DC Police ordered their Glock 22s with the G34/35's extended slide stop. Im not saying it has no legitimacy as a tool, because I used it quite often with the SIGs I carried when I lived and worked in Michigan. Heavy gloves and numb digits can play hell with using the slide release in the standard manner. On the other hand, I dont think it should be the only technique taught to every shooter for every type of handgun. Either way, this is a total hijack of this thread  To answer BMM4A3's question, I use the bolt release by flat hand slapping it, and have never had the least bit of trouble with that technique. |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 9:49:51 AM EDT
[#13]
Glock and several other schools teach the slingshot technique for pistols as it is a gross motor skill, rather than a fine motor skill. On a Glock the slide stop is just that. The only draw back to the slingshot technique is that with some pistols with slide mounted safetys you can activate the safety while grabbing the rear of the slide. The M-16/AR boltcatch/release is made to be slapped with the palm of the hand. again a gross motor skill not a fine motor skill.
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Posted: 9/29/2004 10:19:33 AM EDT
[#14]
Reality check
Operating a firearm consists of a series of fine motor movements. Sight alignment, trigger control, magazine release and yes, slide release – are all fine motor skills. Arguing that you won’t be able manipulate the slide lock but somehow will remember to punch the magazine release, perform a reload and manipulate the trigger effectively is the second dumbest argument of all time (9mm vs. 4x being the all time winner) Gross motor skills apply to clubs, shovels and virgins fucking. |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 10:28:42 AM EDT
[#15]
caneau, in an IDPA or IPSC match, no one is shooting back, your life is not in danger. Just because guys shooting a match use the slide stop doesn't make it right.
Most of the major firearms academy's teach the slingshot. They teach that method for the reason I stated in my first post. That is, loss of fine motor skill. I don't give a damn how easy anybody thinks it is or how natural anybody thinks it is to hit the slide stop/release. Under life threatening stress, you are gonna get your ass killed fumbling with a slide release. I don't know what kind of mag carriers you use. But in mine, the ammo is in the carrier pointed to the ground. I pull the mag out and slam it in the mag well, slingshot the slide and the gun is back in operation in a second. My fingers are no where near the ammo so I could "check" it. On the AR, I use the bolt release. Like others said, smacking that with your palm is a gross motor skill. |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 10:37:35 AM EDT
[#16]
I've always used the slide release and I'll continue to do so.
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Posted: 9/29/2004 10:49:31 AM EDT
[#17]
This statement alone should completely end this discussion. |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 10:54:04 AM EDT
[#18]
None of my AR's have a bolt hold/bolt release mechanism. But I always use them on my 1911's.
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Posted: 9/29/2004 11:01:21 AM EDT
[#19]
I like this guy
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Posted: 9/29/2004 11:02:59 AM EDT
[#20]
 ..
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Posted: 9/29/2004 11:03:29 AM EDT
[#21]
I could see how useing the realese on a 1911 might cause more wear and tear on the realese sear, I always pulle the slide back to chamber it. Same way with my G22c.
My AR I do use the bolt catch, I dont think it matters much, especially iy you know how to replace the parts. |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 12:43:27 PM EDT
[#22]
I can see your logic, but take it to any first-class tactical shooting academy and let me know how far it gets. |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 1:18:25 PM EDT
[#23]
Just because it's being taught doesn't always make it the best for you. Beware the instructor that says you have to do it this way.  s(usewhatIlikeandcontinuetherest)gb 
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Posted: 9/29/2004 1:22:19 PM EDT
[#24]
Horse crap. All guns can break, and if yours never have, you are either very lucky, or don't shoot very much. I've had front sights fly off, adjustable rear sights break, had extractors break, had gas blocks on ARs shoot loose, and seen a boatload of other breakdowns. If you break an extractor, how does that make the rest of the gun a piece of crap? |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 2:58:12 PM EDT
[#25]
Point well taken, but you can rest assured that I'm old enough to know that and the instructors I pay are smart enough and are successful enough to know the difference between sound tactical instruction and dogma. |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 4:27:25 PM EDT
[#26]
[quoteThe ONLY reason it's not recomended on a handgun is because in a self defense situation, under stress, you will loose your fine motor skills. Putting your thumb on that slide stop is definetly a fine motor skill, where as grabbing the slide and jerking backward to chamber the round is not.
Look at the parts diagrams of most pistols. The nomenclature usually calls it a slide stop, not a release. quote] My $.02 I use the bolt release on my AR. and as to the slide release vs. slide stop. I think it's more about technique then one is better vs. the other. I like to use the "Pull back on the slide to release" method as it's easier for me to manipulate my slide then trying to get my thumb to pull down on the slide stop under slide spring tension. I stick with that technique and practice that way. But I would think that would benifit you if you had to speed reload a quick pick up pistol you may not be that intimately familar with. even though most autos are pretty similar with respect to their slide. I certainly don't use the "pull the slide back" technique cause I'm afraid of breaking my slide stop or that it may do something terrible to the first round it chamber's. It's "A way" not "The way" as I have heard from a certain instructor..........
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Posted: 9/29/2004 4:37:55 PM EDT
[#27]
I have never said my way was the only correct way... it is just what I use. I think useing the slide release is not a bad idea if it is what you are taught, I just dont do it... What I DO NOT reccomend is someone useing the slide release when there is no round to be chamberd, that pisses me off to no extent when someone even tries that with one of my pistols.
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Posted: 9/29/2004 5:27:37 PM EDT
[#28]
There is more than one way to skin this cat.
Its personal choice. I have tried both ways and neither is more effecient or quicker even under stress. |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 8:20:37 PM EDT
[#29]
After speaking with many LEOs and taking a CCW class along with lots of shooting--the consensus is that during times of increased stress (not just high stress), people lose fine motor control (Go gaspipes). In times like this, only a firm grip with the palm of your weak hand against the side of the slide with your fingers grasping over the top of the slide and finger pads held against the opposite side of the slide--all fingers aligned, HOLD the slide and with your shooting hand, "punch" the gun forward to rack the slide. After lots of practice, it works with all semis and works every time, unless I fail to grip like I mean it. Don't try to grip the slide from behind with a thumb and forefinger (AKA the "key grip) and try to pull the slide rearward. A good friend who was referred to as a gunslinger by one of his New Mexico State Police instructors has excellent control, is very quick to make this motion, and can do it with any of his guns because he does it the same way all the time. It doesn't really matter how you do it, as long as you can do it under stress every time. If you think you might have a little trouble, or not get it every time, go with my advice.
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Posted: 9/29/2004 8:40:08 PM EDT
[#30]
Guns that are used 2 to 4 times a year have a rash of slide release problems............but mine, used daily......cannot break as hard as I try? Stats, please. |
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Posted: 9/30/2004 6:11:14 AM EDT
[#31]
I use the release on the AR, simpler.
On my handgun, my law enforcement training recommends a quick partial rack of the slide instaed of the release. The reasoning is that there are two factors in play, fine motor coordination and gross motor coordination. The slide release on most stock guns is relatively small and requires fine motor coordination to release. Racking the slide partially is a gross motor operation. In a stress situation, a gross motor operation is "always" easier to accomplish. |
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Posted: 9/30/2004 6:13:02 AM EDT
[#32]
I use the release on the AR, simpler.
On my handgun, my law enforcement training recommends a quick partial rack of the slide instaed of the release. The reasoning is that there are two factors in play, fine motor coordination and gross motor coordination. The slide release on most stock guns is relatively small and requires fine motor coordination to release. Racking the slide partially is a gross motor operation. In a stress situation, a gross motor operation is "always" easier to accomplish. |
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Posted: 9/30/2004 7:17:00 AM EDT
[#33]
Since I shoot an antique, that was designed over 100 years ago to be slammed home with your thumb on that big lever, I don't have a problem with how anyone else wants to do it. I am going to be going quickly on target with my antique while youse guys do the breststroke with your pistol. long live the 1911.
edited heavily. |
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Posted: 10/5/2004 8:34:08 AM EDT
[#34]
ditto
Repeat the above x100 I wrote a lengthy reply to just this question a couple of years ago. Of course, all it was was a complilation of conversations with and reading articles from truly learned folks in the art of pistolcraft "as it applies to COMBAT". None of the ideas were mine. Not a SASS speed shoot or GSSF shoot, but combat. Now for an experienced shooter like myself, I said experienced - not outstanding or accomplished, it would be ok to use the slide LOCK as a release at a competition for speed that required a mag change. For me - I would have to consciously MAKE MYSELF use the slide lock because I never, ever, ever use it to release the slide on a pistol. |
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Posted: 10/5/2004 8:45:23 AM EDT
[#35]
I use the bolt catch to release the bolt on the AR. I use the sling shot method on Glocks. I use the slide release on my Beretta 92fs. Get rid of the tac-latch if you want your upper to last. Trust me on this one. Get a military latch. |
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Posted: 10/5/2004 8:48:39 AM EDT
[#36]
That's definitely too much information 
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Posted: 10/5/2004 8:53:55 AM EDT
[#37]
Of course none of these example's even compare with dropping the bolt release on a FAL! It will definatly get your attention, and watch your fingers.
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Posted: 10/5/2004 8:56:05 AM EDT
[#38]
'Splain? |
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Posted: 10/5/2004 12:17:20 PM EDT
[#39]
I thought this was common knowledge around here. Troy, the prophet, has addressed this many times. Do a search for tac-latch. Any latch that sticks out far from the upper reciever puts A LOT of extra tension/wear on the notch in your upper. Eventually your latch will not have anything to grab and your upper will be ruined. TRUST ME! Get rid of yout tac-latch. I had bought one before being learned by this site, and continued using it. A mere 500 rounds/6 months later, my notch is worn 50% down, w/ no anodizing left. |
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Posted: 10/5/2004 1:26:26 PM EDT
[#40]
amen |
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Posted: 10/9/2004 10:23:54 PM EDT
[#41]
Pulling the slide back takes two hands and takes longer. Pulling the charging handle back is slower and adds drag of the charging handle. eieio
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Posted: 10/9/2004 11:37:41 PM EDT
[#42]
I understand how the bolt stop works. It was just a joke because while everyone here is arguing about how to use the bolt release or charging handle I was just saying that you don't have to use either *joke*  . It's just irritating when you're inbetween magazine changes (no magazine in well) and you bump something in just the right way and whoops there goes the bolt.
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Posted: 10/10/2004 2:14:06 AM EDT
[#43]
you can't change so quickly to humor, us old folks can't keep up.
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Posted: 10/10/2004 2:49:24 AM EDT
[#44]
Ok I'll slow down
 . Sometimes this is a moody forum, everyone can be serious one second then telling you to shoot it in the face the next. Where's a markm comment when you need it? [/hijack]
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Posted: 10/10/2004 6:52:59 AM EDT
[#45]
If you have seen the Mel Gibson movie " We Were Soldiers " you will notice they always slap the bolt release to charge their AR's . If it is/ was good enough for the cavalry , it's good enough for me .
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Posted: 10/10/2004 7:12:21 AM EDT
[#46]
Because movies are always so super accurate right J/K... I agree with the method, in fact talking about movies (I am aware there is real life out there other than movies but...) in Black Hawk Down the guy who plays Randy Shugart slingshots his .45 during the fighting at Durants Helicopter. Like I said, I know it is just a movie but I thought it was cool to see, seeing how they all went through that little course with Delta to learn some of that crap... Same with the actors in we were soldiers, they went through training at Ft Benning with the Infantry.
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