Quoted: Quoted: Never heard or seen any options offered by Colt that allows their weapon system to operate without oil/lube. You would think they would have displayed this at the Shot Show. They did display it at the Shot Show. That is where I saw it.

rsilvers,

Did Colt paint their upper receiver or was the upper receiver mil-spec anodized
on the outside of the receiver? Was their charging handle and gas piston operating system coated?
Did Colt inform you that their weapon would operate without the need for any lube?
Would appreciate any information. I'm sure this must have intreged your interest.

Our upper receiver and charging handle are mil-spec hard anodize on the outside only (Not painted).  The inside (interior only) of the upper receiver and the charging handle is silicon nickel plated.
Their is no nickel showing on the exterior of the upper reciever assemble. It looks like the standard system other then seeing a hard chrome plated bolt carrier when the dust cover door is open.
Best regards

salute
AMERICA FIRST

Quoted: Interesting. I would be interested to see how the plating holds up. I have never been too keen about plating on aluminum, then again never been too keen about the steel bolt carrier in the aluminum receiver to begin with. Kudos for trying something new.

Good post.

The plating being used is like having a metal sleeve in the interior of the upper receiver and charging handle that protects (wear resistant materials), the alum from the steel carrier riding back and forth in the upper receiver when operating. The combination of the hard chrome plated bolt carrier assemble and the plating on the interior of the upper receiver and charging handle allows the upper to operate very smooth. Their is much less resistance for movement of the operating system with this combination of plating then a pakerized bolt carrier assemble and anodized upper receiver.  
Best regards,

Patriot Ordnance Factory

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AMERICA FIRST

Quoted: I wonder if the silicon nickle coating has been tested in extreme cold? Extreme cold can play hell with all kinds of metal parts. John P.S. Being from Minnesota, I'm just askin' . . .

Yes.

The aerospace industry has been using coating/plating for decades. The biggest factors of these coating/plating is the corrosion, and wear resistants of the parts, while operating in heat, cold, and adverse enviroments (operating around salt water). We are applying the same principles to firearms. It cost more to do these processes but it makes sense.
Best regards,

Patriot Ordnance Factory

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AMERICA FIRST

Quoted: I think we are at the point where we can do a lubeless gun, or nearly so. In 20 years it will be common, and someone has already figured it out but we will be slow to trust them. So it is here now if we just learn which process we should believe in. POF needs to do a dual (200 round) Beta-mag dump in full auto with temp probes embedded in the receiver -- and compare this to a normal gun with oil. When I see that data, if it looks fine (compared to a gun with lube), I will be all over it.

Rsilvers,

You have some valid points and concerns. The corrosive & wear resistant coating/plating have been in use for decades in the aerospace industry for use of many moving parts used in aircraft. The use hard chrome greatly extended the life cycle between PM's, of products that were coated. Applying the same plating processes to materials used in firearms makes sense if it benefits the products life cycle and eliminates the need for lubricant. We choose to think out of the box and apply these processes to our weapon system / firearms. The coating provides corrosion resistant and wear resistant surfaces of all moving parts and surfaces in our gas piston operating system. Which allows our operating system to run without the need for lube.

A gas piston weapon system will operate cooler and cleaner then the standard DI weapon system that brings the hot gases and carbon into the bolt carrier/upper receiver. Heat and carbon in the bolt carrier/ upper receiver, will have an adverse affect to operating system in any weapon system over time. Most likely you have experienced this when testing weapons in full auto with suppressors, which increases heat and carbon into the bolt carrier /upper receiver. Without the use of temp probes as you suggested, I've shot (2) beta-C mags (200 rounds) and pulled out the bolt carriers assemble with my bare hands and touch the bolt to my face without burning myself. Try to bare hand a standard DI system after (2) beta-C been shot. You would be seriously injured (maybe 3rd degree burned).  

The "Team America" video you did was Very Cool. It also showed some serious issues with Heat, carbon, and rate of fire when shooting a full auto M16 with a suppressor. The back pressure with the use of the suppressor cycle's the weapon extremely fast. It looked like the rate of fire was about 1,100 RPM, and the M16 looked like it was going to come apart when shooting. When the video camera got close to the ejection port, with two burst of the M16, the carbon covered the lense so you could barely see thru the camera lens. The back pressure generates alot more heat and carbon into the bolt carrier / upper receiver. This was some things I observed with the cool video you made!

I hope I answered your questions and concerns. Sorry for being long winded. The biggest issue is change. Most people don't like change, but it is part of life. Think out of the box.
Best regards,

Patriot Ordnance Factory

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AMERICA FIRST!

Quoted: Frank is always pulling these things apart at the local matches and showing us how they don't have any lube in them....and we see they go bang whenever the trigger is pulled.  The coating also looks like it makes things easier to clean if nothing else.

Russ,

Thanks for the input since you have seen our gas piston weapon system
operate at matches without the use of any oil/lube. You are correct.
Clean up is very simple.
Best regards

Quoted: how can I find out the prices on your complete rifles...they arent listed on your site? eta: who manufatures your lower receivers,it looks like LMT?

Please contact us direct for pricing since our website is updated.
Best regards,

Patriot Ordnance Factory

Quoted: What about Robar NP3 as a lubeless coating?

Don't see why the Robar NP3 couldn't operate without oil
if all operating parts and all parts that housed the moving parts
of the weapon system was plated. I would suggest you contact them direct.
Best regards

Quoted: Quoted: P-12SX: Predator (full lenght) slim version tactical rail. www.pof-usa.com/DSC02413106.JPG Frank, that is freaking sweet! When you get the .308's produced, I'm going to have to pick one up. BTW, if you get 5 or 10 minutes of free time, call me at 409-622-9319 and leave your cell number on my voicemail. I came across some neat coatings that you might be interested in. I can hook you up with contact info, and give some details.

Thanks.

Could you email me when you have time with the information?
We have been very busy.
Thanks,

[email protected]

Quoted: Are there any plans to make a 20"? Or will the 18" be as big they get?

Currently the 18" SPR set up is the longest barrel we offer.
Thanks for the inquiry.
Best regards,

Patriot Ordnance Factory


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AMERICA FIRST!

Quoted: Will you sell it to people in CA? just wondering since you wouldn't sell your lowers

Yes.

Barrels over 16" and semi-auto only carriers.
We don't offer a lower configured to calf..
Best regards,

Patriot Ordnance Factory

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AMERICA FIRST!

Quoted: I am not sure how the Colt was coated. It did not interest me that much because, being from Colt, I figured it would never be for sale. It is more interesting when you do it. Colt mostly had a chart up talking about the coating and how it could do X number of rounds without lube (I seem to remember 30,000).

Thanks.

We offer the silicon nickel plated receiver and charging handle as a option to our gas piston weapon system. This option cost: $125.00

Our interior of the upper receiver & charging handle is silicon nickel plated and the exterior is mil-spec hard anodized.
Best regards,

Patriot Ordnance Factory

salute
AMERICA FIRST!

Quoted: OK since my original questions got overlooked I will ask them again. Silicon Nickle is a generic term.  What is the coating made of?  Is it electroless nickle impregnated with silicon carbide or something else?   Do these uppers have M4 feed ramps?   How do I order an upper receiver?...no barrel or anything else but a receiver?

1) nickel & silicon.

2) All of our uppers come standard with M4 barrel extension and upper receivers.

3) Email us or call us at 623-561-9572 if you wish to place an order.

Best regards,

Patriot Ordnance Factory

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AMERICA FIRST!

Quoted: Quoted: Is this not the exact same gas piston upper that you have been selling for a while now? New news? -jls7 Yeah, BUT THIS ONE IS SPARKLY!

Silicon nickel on the interior Only, mil-spec anodize on the exterior.


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AMERICA FIRST!

Quoted: Still waiting for a sniper version of the 223 and 308. Flat top, 20-26 inch free floated match barrel, match trigger with adjutable stock. Can't be that tough to build. Love my pof upper. It's yet to malunction on me. I'm telling ya they'll sell like hotcakes.

Thanks for the input.
We are happy to see your weapon system is working well for you.

How about a sniper version of our gas piston in 6.5 Grendel?
Best regards,

Patriot Ordnance Factory


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AMERICA FIRST!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What about Robar NP3 as a lubeless coating? Don't see why the Robar NP3 couldn't operate without oil if all operating parts and all parts that housed the moving parts of the weapon system was plated. I would suggest you contact them direct. Best regards I had the bolt and carrier NP3ed by Robar on my Colt AR....Approx. 2000 rounds...no lube, no cleaning yet and no problems.  I called and asked about the upper.  I was advised the whole upper (not just the interior) had to be NP3ed.  that should make it even "slicker" but I don't know how duracoat or t-moly will adhere to NP3.  Will have to call them back.  I also run my Glock without lube that has been NP3ed.

I would call them to find out.

We choose to have offer our uppers with the mil-spec hard anodize on the exterior of the upper receiver and charging handle and silicon nickel plate the interior of the upper receiver and charging handle. This silicon nickel upper receiver & charging handle option is $125.00
Best regards,

Patriot Ordnance Factory


Silicon nickel plate upper receiver (interior), and mil-spec anodize exterior.

Quoted: I spoke to Chris at POF.  I think he said the finish is $125.00.  Don't quote me.

You are correct.
The silicon nickel plate charging handle and upper receiver (interior only), and
mil-spec hard anodize (exterior) option is $125.00  
Best regards,

Patriot Ordnance Factory

Quoted: Will this system work on a normal AR if you replace the DI system parts with piston parts?  And would the piston rod fit in the carrier key of a DI system?  In the second picture on the first page it looks like your carrier key equivalent is positioned on with just 1 allen screw.  Is this true or is it an integral piece of metal on the carrier? Anyway, what would you charge for a piston conversion kit that can install on a regular AR? EDIT: I looked on your site and the spare parts thing is straightforward enough but I guess what I realy want to know is if you offer the gas block to complete the system.

1) Our gas operating system works on the standard AR15 platform (barrels, upper receiver).
2) Our push rod /op-rod will fit into a gas key.
3) We have both. We have a two piece carrier and mechanical key (2 screws, dowell pin, inserted into a pocket cut in the carrier). We also have a one piece carrier/key combo.

Best regards,

Patriot Ordnace Factory