A thing of beauty...The A2!! - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - A thing of beauty...The A2!! (Page 2 of 3)

Posted: 3/18/2006 9:24:41 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I will never understand the need for target sights on a military weapon.

May I remind you according to 'Marine Sniper', Hathcocks first kill in a sniper type role was with a stock M14 at 600 yards. His spotter also put a few down with this set up at distance longer than 300 yards. Could they have done this without sights that elevated? I've read enough battle accounts that shooting at longer distances does happen. I'm sure it's not the norm and you can say that's what a sniper is for but I'm wondering what you would do if there wasn't one around. Would there never be a time in the "sand box" that you may be taking fire from a mortor or something like that, that you could possibly engage to neutralize it with a rifle, and that it might be at like 500 meters or something like that? You're saying this is never heard of? This is not possible? I simpy don't get your thinking. Aren't you in the military? Now this might not mean much but I've carried my A2 around hunting before (and I mean crawling through swamps and bushes, etc, doing drives,) and found that it didn't move on me. I understand that an A1 sight would be better in the respect that it'd be harder to move, but I personally would like the ability to hit at further distances, given the fact that you understand how to use it. Correct me if I'm wrong but the A1's are the only service rifle I can think of that didn't have an ability to elevate. So all of those stinking years it was never used by a soldier? They just sat there idle. In fact they were so little used that they are basically rusted in the lowest position because they just aren't necessary. OK. I get your point. You're probably right. I need a beer.

Iron sights are sub optimal. P. Rofers has collected exaclty one story of a Marine adjusting his sights- a school trained sniper.

No, not in the .mil.

Yes, A1 sights lacked the ability to elevate. They also hold zero better.

I agreed that they hold zero better. But I do not agree that elevation was only necessary once out of 200 years of figting, and that's only us. I'm not sure who P. Rofers is or why you're referencing him.

It shall be noted that the f is rather close to the g on my keyboard...

If you want to spend 10 hours a day training with a rifle that weighs 8 pounds and has no optic, light etc, go right ahead, but the need for adjusting windage remains at... zero.

I repeat- sight the gun in, and shoot it a whole bunch. They aren't all that accurate anyway, particularly with iron sights. Shoot till the target falls down, or you hear a hit on steel. Then asses and engage other targets.

If you know where windage is necessary out to 300M, please tell me. If you know someone who can sit down and make 500M hits with irons on a target that is not bothering to stand still, all while dealing with time pressure and a massive adrenaline dump from the bullets cracking overhead... tell me. He is my new hero.

I'm not sure how to respond to your post except that I may have to dig some references out. But for one if you read Marine Sniper and Silent Warrior, you will see the references I have thus far made. Yes they are snipers but had they not had a weapon that allowed for elevation, they would've not been able to engage the targets they did. And I mean Burke too, his spotter. He mostly carried the M14. And like I said, Hathcock's first kill was with one. Now Mr. Rogers probably has more information on the subject, especially since they were marines. But I have a hard time believing Burke didn't know his way up and down on that wheel. I am thinking of a reference in my Grandpa's Division book that I'd have to dig out and reread but the account was a Captain or something like that driving a jeep to within 500 yards of an 88's position, getting out, dumping a clip(garand) in them and neutralizing them so that everyone could get moving again. 2nd Infantry division. I don't fully recall if they stated if he used his wheel. I'll try and find it again. But I'm betting he did, because that's how they trained back then. Just my 2 cents, yours obviosly differs.

Posted: 3/18/2006 9:25:36 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Quoted:

Like I said, that little bit of weight and length makes it that much worse? I understand your point. And you are certainly entitled to your opinion. My brother has an A1 and I marvel at how light it is. But when I pick up my A2 I don't think to myself, "dang, this thing is heavy". I'm just saying obviously that I like the adjustable sights, and I don't think the weight and length issue is that big of a detractor. But if you do, that's fine. It's all a preference thing. However, this thread is about A2's and how it is a thing of beauty and people just have to put there 2 cents in about how that must not be true, they just can't let us have our fun.

Yours is nice -- that Colt greay color is my favorite -- better than black.

No, the weight and length don't make it much worse.

Thank you, I like it very much too.

I appreciate the compliment.

Posted: 3/18/2006 9:58:03 PM EDT

[#3]

A2's sure are a thing of beauty, I agree.

Picked up a minty used Bushmaster last week, it was a smokin' deal and I could not refuse.

20" A2 BM HBAR 1/9

Gonna have it reprofiled and swap the upper out for an A3.

I love her, but she needs to change some things. Diet and rhinoplasty.

HS1

Posted: 3/18/2006 10:12:18 PM EDT

[#4]

As I type this I have my A1 on my lap (Im kinda crazy

) I love my A1, I really do, but I have to admit when I get to play with a Govt. A2, I can't stop drooling

The A2 feels better to me. feels very solid. This is the first time I heard of this A1 vs. A2 sight argument. I would like to hear more about this......and also more pic's of your guys sweet A2's

Posted: 3/18/2006 10:31:09 PM EDT

[#5]

Building one currently... But it will be a 1 in 9

Gota love a long bow, a long sword, and a long rifle.

Posted: 3/18/2006 10:52:18 PM EDT

[#6]

Good lord can we have one thread that doesn't get hijacked by the tacticool crowd?

I doubt those in this thread purchased an A2 thinking it was the ultimate rifle for slaying Islamic Chinese U.N. zombies invading from Mexico.

Being idiot proof and sturdy as possible is great for a combat rifle, however, not every AR bought by every AR enthusiast is for combat, self defense, patrol, etc.

Posted: 3/18/2006 11:06:25 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
If you want to spend 10 hours a day training with a rifle that weighs 8 pounds and has no optic, light etc, go right ahead, but the need for adjusting windage remains at... zero.

A stock M16A2 weighs 7 pounds, exactly .4 pounds more than an M16A1. I don't know where you got "8 pounds" but it is bullshit.

IMO, the C7 is a slightly better combat rifle than the M16A2, if only because it could be had with the A1 length stock.

Posted: 3/18/2006 11:28:25 PM EDT

[#8]

Ok first this a thread for A2 lovers and the A1/flat top is better crowed need to stop posting here. If you want to start a thread a bought how the A2 is a POS then by all means go a head! In fact I want you to but you aren't wanted here, why you ask because this is a thread for people to post pics of A2s. Not a A1/flat top Vs A2 thread! If you want to talk A1/flat top Vs A2 then start a new thread. Don't get me wrong I love the A1 and I am planning on 2 retro builds. But I don't like flat top because I have no reason to take the carry handle off my gun. I am even planning on putting a Aimpoint on top of the CH(black Hawk Down baby

) Flat top are great for most people! But not for me! That's just how I am and that's how I like my guns. So go start a new thread if you want to bash the great A2 rifles.

Ok now back on topic! MORE pics people!

Posted: 3/18/2006 11:39:09 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Quoted:
If you want to spend 10 hours a day training with a rifle that weighs 8 pounds and has no optic, light etc, go right ahead, but the need for adjusting windage remains at... zero.

A stock M16A2 weighs 7 pounds, exactly .4 pounds more than an M16A1. I don't know where you got "8 pounds" but it is bullshit.

IMO, the C7 is a slightly better combat rifle than the M16A2, if only because it could be had with the A1 length stock.

Guess what a loaded magazine weighs.....

Posted: 3/18/2006 11:54:21 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Guess what a loaded magazine weighs.....

20 round loaded mag: 11oz (w/Al. Follower)
30 round loaded mag: 16oz (1lb.) (w/green Follower)

What do I win?

Posted: 3/19/2006 12:14:07 AM EDT

[#11]

8 pounds sounds reasonable now....

Ellery wins an E-Cookie!

Posted: 3/19/2006 12:47:33 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Quoted:
So simple. Im getting kind of tired of the newer shit. I really want an A2 now!!

www.fnmfg.com/products/m16fam/m16a2.jpg

Brings a tear to my eye it's so beautiful! There is nothing so beautiful as a plain jane 20" A2!!!

You obviousley haven't seen a plain jane 20" A3!

Posted: 3/19/2006 3:56:00 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
8 pounds sounds reasonable now....

Ellery wins an E-Cookie!

And everyone that attends a class with Pat Rogers has a carbine that weighs less than 8lbs with all their stuff on it fully loaded?

Posted: 3/19/2006 6:36:06 AM EDT

[#14]

I have a carbine and a 20". Maybe it's the longer sight radius or the added weight, but I shoot my 20" A2 better than my carbine. It just seems a little more comfortable to shoot, especially prone.

Old pic, It now has a A1 stock. And it's lower is being barrowed by my carbine, so it's not all togather at the moment. I miss shooting it though and hope to buy another lower next month.

Posted: 3/19/2006 7:03:38 AM EDT

[#15]

heres mine: original colt sporter target model...

http://www.bilder-hosting.de/img/VML4C.jpg

http://www.bilder-hosting.de/img/VMRP7.jpg

http://www.bilder-hosting.de/img/VMU7G.jpg

Posted: 3/19/2006 7:07:29 AM EDT

[#16]

I bought a new digital camera this morning just to take these pics. This is the new build I talked about on page one.

Posted: 3/19/2006 7:38:26 AM EDT

[#17]

The A2 is the new old-school:

Just a bit of the Bushy purple tinge on the left lower... Seriously, it doesn't show in 'normal' light.

Posted: 3/19/2006 8:28:56 AM EDT

[#18]

A2's are great!

Posted: 3/19/2006 8:51:46 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I will never understand the need for target sights on a military weapon.

May I remind you according to 'Marine Sniper', Hathcocks first kill in a sniper type role was with a stock M14 at 600 yards. His spotter also put a few down with this set up at distance longer than 300 yards. Could they have done this without sights that elevated? I've read enough battle accounts that shooting at longer distances does happen. I'm sure it's not the norm and you can say that's what a sniper is for but I'm wondering what you would do if there wasn't one around. Would there never be a time in the "sand box" that you may be taking fire from a mortor or something like that, that you could possibly engage to neutralize it with a rifle, and that it might be at like 500 meters or something like that? You're saying this is never heard of? This is not possible? I simpy don't get your thinking. Aren't you in the military? Now this might not mean much but I've carried my A2 around hunting before (and I mean crawling through swamps and bushes, etc, doing drives,) and found that it didn't move on me. I understand that an A1 sight would be better in the respect that it'd be harder to move, but I personally would like the ability to hit at further distances, given the fact that you understand how to use it. Correct me if I'm wrong but the A1's are the only service rifle I can think of that didn't have an ability to elevate. So all of those stinking years it was never used by a soldier? They just sat there idle. In fact they were so little used that they are basically rusted in the lowest position because they just aren't necessary. OK. I get your point. You're probably right. I need a beer.

Iron sights are sub optimal. P. Rofers has collected exaclty one story of a Marine adjusting his sights- a school trained sniper.

No, not in the .mil.

Yes, A1 sights lacked the ability to elevate. They also hold zero better.

I agreed that they hold zero better. But I do not agree that elevation was only necessary once out of 200 years of figting, and that's only us. I'm not sure who P. Rofers is or why you're referencing him.

It shall be noted that the f is rather close to the g on my keyboard...

If you want to spend 10 hours a day training with a rifle that weighs 8 pounds and has no optic, light etc, go right ahead, but the need for adjusting windage remains at... zero.

I repeat- sight the gun in, and shoot it a whole bunch. They aren't all that accurate anyway, particularly with iron sights. Shoot till the target falls down, or you hear a hit on steel. Then asses and engage other targets.

If you know where windage is necessary out to 300M, please tell me. If you know someone who can sit down and make 500M hits with irons on a target that is not bothering to stand still, all while dealing with time pressure and a massive adrenaline dump from the bullets cracking overhead... tell me. He is my new hero.

And who is your old hero? Is it this P. Rofers?

I can think of at least 10 guys names that would meet your new hero critera, and I'll have the possibility of meeting hundreds more this summer.

Posted: 3/19/2006 8:53:24 AM EDT

[#20]

Here's mine. I hope this isn't considered "pimped out."

Colt Sporter Match HBAR. This is the first AR I ever bought. (1992)

It's a slabsided lower with the cool grayish finish.

Recent minor mods were removing the finger swell from the A2 grip and a set of KNS anti-walk pins.

The $100.00 Tasco scope and cheek rest were mods made when I bought it.

I fired this rifle last weekend and it was the first time it's been fired since the early 90's. It worked perfectly, as usual.

Scott

Posted: 3/19/2006 12:01:54 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
heres mine: original colt sporter target model...

www.bilder-hosting.de/img/VML4C.jpg

www.bilder-hosting.de/img/VMRP7.jpg

www.bilder-hosting.de/img/VMU7G.jpg

I like your style

Posted: 3/19/2006 12:03:36 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
heres mine: original colt sporter target model...

www.bilder-hosting.de/img/VML4C.jpg

www.bilder-hosting.de/img/VMRP7.jpg

www.bilder-hosting.de/img/VMU7G.jpg

I like your style

Is that a 9mm P-220? I have a P-226 9mm and will be buried with it. Along with my AR's of course.

Posted: 3/19/2006 12:05:03 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
I bought a new digital camera this morning just to take these pics. This is the new build I talked about on page one.
photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=45714
photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=45715
photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=45716
photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=45717

Beautiful!!! That is a sweet AR!! Good luck with it and that new digi camera.

Pete

Posted: 3/19/2006 12:31:32 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
How heavy is the ubiquitous AK? Isn't that the epitomy of Assualt Rifle? Yet it's heavier? Hmmmmm.

It depends on which model. There is the old Ak 47 type 3 which weighs close to 9lb's IIRC. Then there is the much more common AKM which weighs near 6.5lbs IIRC.

Posted: 3/19/2006 1:05:30 PM EDT

[#25]

@Death2usama: thx... yes, its the original swiss army "pistole 75". Me too...

Posted: 3/19/2006 2:45:32 PM EDT

[#26]

Posted: 3/19/2006 4:26:20 PM EDT

[#27]

Here is mine, it is a R6551 that I removed the sear block from, and replaced the carrier and barrel with USGI parts.

Posted: 3/19/2006 4:30:14 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Here is mine, it is a R6551 that I removed the sear block from, and replaced the carrier and barrel with USGI parts.

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/A2project02.jpg

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/A2project09.jpg

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/A2project01.jpg

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/A2project08.jpg

That is the one I want!!! I wish they still made that model

Posted: 3/19/2006 5:19:02 PM EDT

[#29]

I fired mine today, with a scope on it to do a little ammo testing. First note is I'm not going to show it but the accuracy of ADCOM M855 was less than stellar in my A2. Like 5 moa or more. Oh well, I'll just have to blast it.

These 2 groups were black hills blue 68's:

These 3 were with the BHB 77's, I thought it'd be better but no go. An aside not though, it had almost and Identical poi as the 68's, which I thought was weird

I know they're not stellar. I know there is some user error but when I'm getting 2 moa or better, I think it's pretty good with a bone stock, heavy trigger, non free floated AR. I know some of you can put em down through the same hole using the large ap, I'm just not that good.

Posted: 3/19/2006 5:22:52 PM EDT

[#30]

BTW, this is what the BHB 52's did last spring with the ole A2:

Posted: 3/19/2006 6:04:26 PM EDT

[#31]

Mine started as a A2.

Stag "Stag-15" lower
Model One 20" A2 parts kit, SS HBAR barrel(yes, I know the barrel is black, it's N.O.S., but it's stamped SS 5.56 mm on it).
10 round Bushmaster mag
Sporting conversions fixed mag kit(to make CA-Legal)
Houge rubber grip
Yankee Hill Machine Phantom 5C2 Comp/Flash Suppressor
"carry handle" scope mount
Leapers 3-9X50mm Full Size AO Mil-Dot Illuminated scope w/ 3" sunshade

I've shot about 200 rounds through it so far, no reliability issues with Wolf, Federal American Eagle, Remington, Winchester and Federal XM193.

I plan on buying a 9-13 Harris Bi-Pod and Delta cheek piece for it next, I like shooting prone.

Posted: 3/19/2006 6:19:24 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Here is mine, it is a R6551 that I removed the sear block from, and replaced the carrier and barrel with USGI parts.

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/A2project02.jpg

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/A2project09.jpg

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/A2project01.jpg

img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/A2project08.jpg

That is the one I want!!! I wish they still made that model

Colt don't make an out of the box rifle correct, had to fix all of mine. Heck, come to think of it all my rifles are custom, save the surplus ones.

Posted: 3/19/2006 6:32:28 PM EDT

[#33]

What do you mean? I thought Colt made Govt. style 20 inch A2's until a few years ago.

Posted: 3/19/2006 6:46:11 PM EDT

[#34]

They are a thing of beauty.

Posted: 3/19/2006 8:37:14 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
What do you mean? I thought Colt made Govt. style 20 inch A2's until a few years ago.

Sure, Colt made a A2 Govt Model type semiauto rifle for quite awhile, just nothing like quite right.

Posted: 3/19/2006 9:08:12 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Quoted:
What do you mean? I thought Colt made Govt. style 20 inch A2's until a few years ago.

Sure, Colt made a A2 Govt Model type semiauto rifle for quite awhile, just nothing like quite right.

Oh I see said the blind man

Posted: 3/19/2006 9:10:26 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What do you mean? I thought Colt made Govt. style 20 inch A2's until a few years ago.

Sure, Colt made a A2 Govt Model type semiauto rifle for quite awhile, just nothing like quite right.

Oh I see said the blind man

Yeah, you said "still", and I was thinking "ever".

Posted: 3/19/2006 9:13:31 PM EDT

[#38]

I love a simple A2 as well.

Here's my A2 Bushy.

Posted: 3/19/2006 9:26:06 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
I love a simple A2 as well.

Here's my A2 Bushy.

www.localnumber69.com/temp/XM15_18_New.jpg

Is that a HBAR or Govt. with a 1/7 twist? Nice group by the way

Posted: 3/19/2006 9:46:59 PM EDT

[#40]

I've got two A1's and one flattop.

I really like the A1's.

______________________________

Posted: 3/19/2006 10:00:09 PM EDT

[#41]

Posted: 3/19/2006 10:00:40 PM EDT

[#42]

Posted: 3/19/2006 10:45:06 PM EDT

[#43]

ok heres my contribution to the A2`s , consider this a first glipse of the FNGs A2.. :)

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/fauxquantum/rightdiag.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/fauxquantum/frontangle.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/fauxquantum/trioleft.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/fauxquantum/rightbarrel.jpg

Posted: 3/19/2006 11:55:23 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
ok heres my contribution to the A2`s , consider this a first glipse of the FNGs A2.. :)

i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/fauxquantum/rightdiag.jpg

i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/fauxquantum/frontangle.jpg

i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/fauxquantum/trioleft.jpg

i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/fauxquantum/rightbarrel.jpg

Dude.....somebody stole your flash hider and bayonet lug

Posted: 3/20/2006 4:08:52 AM EDT

[#45]

Is that 18"????????????? Nice rifle, nice group.

Posted: 3/20/2006 4:21:12 AM EDT

[#46]

Posted: 3/20/2006 9:47:58 AM EDT

[#47]

Tag.

WIZZO

Posted: 3/20/2006 10:17:52 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I love a simple A2 as well.

Here's my A2 Bushy.

www.localnumber69.com/temp/XM15_18_New.jpg

Is that a HBAR or Govt. with a 1/7 twist? Nice group by the way

That started its life as a 20" 1/9 Hbar, but got cut and threaded to 18" and turned down under the HG's to govt. profile. It's a sweet package, light and perfectly balanced and it still shoots great.

Posted: 3/20/2006 10:23:58 AM EDT

[#49]

I beat the hell out of one A2 or another for 17 years, and never had any issue with the rear sights.
Dont know problems you all are having.
Here is a few A2's for ya. Team Luke, Bahrain 02

Posted: 3/20/2006 3:12:26 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
img124.imageshack.us/img124/9452/ar15updated4mw.jpg

What sling set-up do you have on that? Is the mag pouch on the stock part of it or seperate?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - A thing of beauty...The A2!! (Page 2 of 3)

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