https://www.gunbroker.com/item/848824922

Not sure if that linked or not.

Some big seller on Gunbroker claims this stuff is Soviet made steel core ammo, which would be considered AP ammo by ATF.

I call likely BS for a few reasons:

1- Bullet cannelure looks wrong for Russian made, and it does not have sealant on the bullet, just the casing.  Not how they tended to make it at all.

2- If you zoom in, you can see the cartridge has been mark "FEDARM 2018 7,62x39" or similar.  Which means it is a recent import, not some 1990's stuff that has been sitting around 30 years.

3- FFL's are prohibited from selling steel core "AP" type ammo (private citizens can sell it though).  So not likely they got this stuff from someone closet.

To me, it looks real similar to how ATI did some 7.62x39 ammo a few years back- import steel core Soviet ammo (theirs was copper wash), then pull the bullet and replace it with a US made lead core bullet.  Seems like a good idea to me.  But it seems these guys, unlike ATI, are trying to pull a fast one by claiming the headstamp indicates it is steel core....

I hate crooks and scammers, and these guys are trying to get $400 for 500 rounds, on ammo that really should be around $100/500, so it seems pretty damn shady so far.  Anyone else got info, or have experience with this ammo?

Not buying any- just saw it pop up and had to look...

Soviet m43 or 57N231 has a flat nosed mild steel core.



Most of the 80’s/90’s era “AP” is actually this stuff. I guess it would now be considered armor piercing based on construction being that the core of the projectile is steel.

7N23 has a penetrator steel core and black tip.



As far as I can tell no soviet era 7.62x39 has a cannelure and 7n23 was most likely never imported into the us.

My guess is they are selling modern made steel jacketed ammo but calling it steel core ap.

Yeah I know it isn't real AP stuff- but they are claiming it is the standard steel core FMJ that ATF calls AP even though we all know it really isn't much if any better than lead core at penetrating armor...

Real chinese steel core ammo goes for a premium (not that it really should) and these guys seem to be trying to dupe folks into thinking this ammo is similar.  Not only that, fairly sure they would be violating ATF defined AP ammo sales law if they were selling actual AP ammo since they clearly are an FFL dealer (not that I care about that- just not willing to give possible scammers any slack).

Yeah, they are FOS.

Head stamp appears to have a factory code of "21", used by Poland and Hungary. Likely re-manufactured as you suggest. If you look close at the case mouth, you can see the lacquer is chipped from the process/re-crimping.

"No returns or refunds" - no kidding?

I have never seen a cannelure on Russian AP ammo before. I would be interested in seeing bullet cutaway. This smells funny.

Late reply to this, but I bought some. I cut a bullet and it’s real deal steel core just like the early Chinese stuff. All mixed headstamps in the lot.

Weigh a projectile for us please. Inquiring minds want to know

Pics? Head stamps?

Well, 'steel core' is not necessarily AP, as in M855 and the common 7.62x39 that was inappropriately banned as being 'AP' when it was not

The projectile I pulled weighed 122.7 grains. It’s a FMJBT. Headstamps are mixed but I found 17/73, 3/71, 60/72, 60/73.

I have some pictures, but need to figure out a way to post. It’s been a while since I’ve done it.

Interesting. All USSR head stamps from the early 70's...

Lacquered steel cases with red case mouth and primer seals?

Do they have the same knurled crimping groove around the projectile like the ones in the listing?

Wondering if you got something different than what is pictured in the listing. Still like to see pics...

Try this link for a picture. Can’t get it to embed.

https://imgur.com/qlIrIwB

Got it.

That is some fucky looking stuff there. Obviously remanufactured. They added that serrated cannelure to what appears to be a standards M43 projectile. The only reason I can think of is to hide the true nature of the projectile from visual observation or to qualify it as "remanufactured". The laser etched case markings scream Europe or Russia.

OEM  rounds with those headstamps would not have that cannelure, and they would have a red lacquer seal at the case mouth.

Do the primers still have a red seal? If so, they are likely original and corrosive... I know of a company in Russia that remanufactures various calibers and replaces the corrosive primers. You can tell if replaced by the lack of a primer seal.

Very interesting. Thanks for posting.

ETA: After looking at the pic on my big screen, you can see a horizontal mark in the cannelure, likely a pull mark. Also the serrated cannelure is just above the original smooth one, and too high up to make any sense. Really looks like it was all done for show, to make these look like regular lead core projectiles. Also, BS on the part of the seller to imply that this is original Soviet manufactured ammunition when it is very obviously remanufactured.

Here’s one of the primers and headstamps.

https://imgur.com/DNXNSTP

No primer seal. I’ll probably pop one to see if they are corrosive. I’ll say that the bullets were crimped really well. It took a lot of effort to pull the projectile

I knew these wouldn’t be factory Soviet as I’ve never seen a cannelure on any 7.62x39. But for what ended up being about .28/rd, it was worth the gamble for 500. I’ve never seen engraved cases before which makes it even stranger. “Fedarm” doesn’t list any x39 on their site. “7,62x39” leads me to believe it was remanufactured overseas like you said.

@jonpo
Every case is laser engraved?

ETA:
GB seller is in Ft Smith, FedArm is in Ft. Smith.
GB auction photos are similar to the FedArm photos for 7.62x54R

Yes, those would have originally had a noticeable red primer seal. I agree the comma instead of a dot suggests a European connection. EU law or some such requires all ammunition to be marked like this now. Not sure if all factory or just reworked/surplus.

Editied to add: I asked a very knowledgeable person in the collector community about this ammunition and this is his reply:

"They are loaded in the US by FedArm using refurbished unprimed cases and bullets supplied by Techcrim in Russia. Cases are primed by FedArm using Berdan primers made by Murom in Russia. Powder is probably WC 844 made by General Dynamics at St. Marks."