Mini Draco suppressed

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Mini Draco suppressed

Posted: 9/29/2018 11:32:14 PM EDT

I’ve been wanting to suppress this mini Draco for years. I gave up on it.

Even if I got a concentric bore, the AK doesn’t suppress well because of the gas leaving the piston area instead of through the barrel (and then the suppressor). Even if that all worked out then the increased speed of the bolt and carrier would out strip the magazine.

Well KNS made an adjustable piston! Finally available for the mini Draco! Great days. More gas down the barrel is quieter. More gas down the barrel, less driving the carrier (less velocity).

Now how do I mount my Saker onto the mini? Dead Air makes the keymo Mount in 14x1L. Everything is gonna work out.

Finally get every thing together and the system failed the suppressor alignment test. The suppressor guide rod failed. Not concentric threads.

Drat.

Here is a picture anyways.

Attached File

Posted: 9/30/2018 9:19:53 AM EDT

[#1]

You might do some digging about minimum barrel length for that can before you get to deep into it, assuming you haven't already. I think it is 8.5" and your mini has a sub-8" barrel.

ETA: Bold print for enhanced reading comprehension.

Posted: 9/30/2018 9:41:59 AM EDT

[#2]

dead air wolverine pb-1

Posted: 9/30/2018 11:25:35 AM EDT

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:
You might do some digging about minimum barrel length for that can before you get to deep into it, assuming you haven't already. I think it is 8.5" and your mini has a sub-8" barrel.

View Quote

Absolutely incorrect. It is rated at least to 7.5 (maybe shorter, but I’m certain of 7.5) and in full auto with 7.62x39. I have a rifle that is exactly that, and an email from SiCo stating it.

Guess the Wolverine or last ditch attempt at thread correction is in order.

Posted: 9/30/2018 4:19:00 PM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:

Absolutely incorrect. It is rated at least to 7.5 (maybe shorter, but I’m certain of 7.5) and in full auto with 7.62x39. I have a rifle that is exactly that, and an email from SiCo stating it.

Guess the Wolverine or last ditch attempt at thread correction is in order.

View Quote

Please post the relevant contents of the email that would elude to minimum barrel length with 7.62x39.

Posted: 9/30/2018 4:33:15 PM EDT

[#5]

some way to re thread that 14 to 1/2 - 28 with the guide rod in?

love my kns gas pistons

my krink shoots awesome with pb1 and kns piston

Posted: 10/1/2018 6:44:59 AM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:

Please post the relevant contents of the email that would elude to minimum barrel length with 7.62x39.

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Nah. If you are asking for yourself, you should write your own email and get confirmation. As opposed to relying on some guy in the internet.

I’ve got mine, but it’s dubious how helpful that’ll be if needed.

Posted: 10/1/2018 6:45:30 AM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:
some way to re thread that 14 to 1/2 - 28 with the guide rod in?

love my kns gas pistons

my krink shoots awesome with pb1 and kns piston

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/132869/krink1-688466.jpg

View Quote

I’m officially jealous.

Posted: 10/1/2018 8:45:26 AM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:

Nah. If you are asking for yourself, you should write your own email and get confirmation. As opposed to relying on some guy in the internet.

I’ve got mine, but it’s dubious how helpful that’ll be if needed.

View Quote

Not for me, for the community. I don't have a Draco, mini or regular, nor do I have the desire to suppress one. I went that route (suppressed SLR107UR SBR) years ago and it was not impressive, at all. Bulgarian 4 piece makes much more sense to me on many levels.

Posted: 10/1/2018 8:52:03 AM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
some way to re thread that 14 to 1/2 - 28 with the guide rod in?

love my kns gas pistons

my krink shoots awesome with pb1 and kns piston

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/132869/krink1-688466.jpg

View Quote

Well done, both the rifle and the suppressor.

Posted: 10/1/2018 9:06:25 AM EDT

[#10]

I think the Wolverine is an excellent option. Are there any other option to consider for this specific use?

Posted: 10/1/2018 10:17:47 AM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
I think the Wolverine is an excellent option. Are there any other option to consider for this specific use?

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Aside from what is seen here, maybe the Gemtech One or the Sandman S, but I haven't given it a lot of though beyond the barrel length aspect, from memory. To add, manufacturers haven't invested much effort when it comes to mounting options since so few want to suppress AK when you look at the overall market for product. There are so many great cans out there that it is a real challenge to keep up with it all and the limits each can be pushed to. I sell a lot of cans, but few of my customers are trying to run one on a radically short AK, so it isn't something I have seen much beyond my own personal disappointment trying to suppress the platform. I do have an idea that will make the AK impressive in regards to sound, but it is very low on my to-do list. Good on ya if you can make it safely work out for you and be well pleased with the result. It just wasn't worth it to me in regards to expense and work vs performance. As far as the Saker goes, it is indeed a great can and, admittedly, Silencerco is my favorite manufacturer. All of their stuff is generally lightweight, durable, and sounds great barring host and ammunition related characteristics. I wish manufacturers would list the barrel length compatibilities in max PSI at each inch increment and which common rounds would generally fit in that PSI range at each length. It would make it a lot easier to wade through this stuff and could decrease manufacturer liability.

Posted: 10/1/2018 11:11:51 AM EDT

[#12]

I started down the suppressor path over 20 years ago. Mainly because it was (still is) a “cool” thing to do.

Years later, I really view suppressors as a safety device. I’m the guy that wears foamies and over ear protection, at indoor ranges. Now that I’ve moved way out in the country and I can shoot whenever and whatever, I would like to suppress my rifles.

I’m not big into pistol suppressors except for 22. However almost all of my rifles are suppressed or have a quick mount.

That’s why this AK being not suppressed is bothering me.

Edit. Ballistically the 7.62x39 round is great out of a short barrel, and excellent choice for short (ish) range encounters. Hot damn will it rattle your fillings out of a 7 inch barrel.

Posted: 10/5/2018 6:30:39 PM EDT

[#13]

We have been testing the WBP Lynx AK47 pistol with suppressors and had no issues with their 10 inch barrel. Same success with the full sized Draco.

AK47 Pistol for Sale

Posted: 12/26/2018 7:20:05 PM EDT

[#14]

On my mini draco the bore was not concentric after I checked with alignment rod.

Posted: 12/26/2018 8:51:19 PM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
On my mini draco the bore was not concentric after I checked with alignment rod.

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+1 I had a few of them for a while and as luck would have it, the last one I had was way off. I ended up selling it.

Posted: 12/27/2018 3:36:34 PM EDT

[#16]

Went round in circles. Bought a Wolverine.

Posted: 12/28/2018 8:36:07 PM EDT

[#17]

Like stated above...could it be re-threaded 14x1LH with the guide rod and still function?

Posted: 12/28/2018 9:37:13 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
Like stated above...could it be re-threaded 14x1LH with the guide rod and still function?

View Quote

I'm not sure what you are asking.

If I actually wanted to suppress an AK and it had thread issues, I'd press the barrel out, turn the threads off, press on a sleeve, and thread the sleeve to 5/8-24. Options for a decent can would be far greater.

Posted: 12/29/2018 12:34:54 AM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:

I'm not sure what you are asking.

If I actually wanted to suppress an AK and it had thread issues, I'd press the barrel out, turn the threads off, press on a sleeve, and thread the sleeve to 5/8-24. Options for a decent can would be far greater.

View Quote

I haven’t found anyone in my area who was willing / able to do that for a mini DRACO. I looked and asked.

People who love the Wolverine (a can I ordered) have to admit, that it’s a compromise.

Posted: 12/29/2018 8:58:05 AM EDT

[#20]

It's quite a bit of work for threads. I'm sure someone competent would do it, but expect the cost to be shocking compared to a regular threading job. To me, it wouldn't be worth it without a different gas block design that made a can really do the weapon some justice while suppressed. It would make more sense as a complete threading and gas block conversion tailored for suppressed use.

Posted: 12/29/2018 8:54:56 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
It's quite a bit of work for threads. I'm sure someone competent would do it, but expect the cost to be shocking compared to a regular threading job. To me, it wouldn't be worth it without a different gas block design that made a can really do the weapon some justice while suppressed. It would make more sense as a complete threading and gas block conversion tailored for suppressed use.

View Quote

I have the KNS adjustable piston in it. It does make a difference in recoil and how far the steel casings go. Obviously I have not tested it with a suppressor.

Posted: 12/30/2018 2:06:02 AM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:

I have the KNS adjustable piston in it. It does make a difference in recoil and how far the steel casings go. Obviously I have not tested it with a suppressor.

View Quote

Gas adjustment is part of it, but there are other aspects that could stand some improvement.

Posted: 12/30/2018 2:06:06 PM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:

Gas adjustment is part of it, but there are other aspects that could stand some improvement.

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Absolutely.

I understand. The original AK design wasn’t for it being suppressed. Then going further, this topic is about a mini Draco, not a real AK either.

I dropped the gun off at the gunsmith and he couldn’t get to it. What that told me, the project was gonna be too much of a problem. Which in turn would have been more money.

Maybe it would have turned out perfect. I finally decided that the KNS piston and the Wolverine would have to do.

Posted: 12/30/2018 7:15:22 PM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:

Absolutely.

I understand. The original AK design wasn’t for it being suppressed. Then going further, this topic is about a mini Draco, not a real AK either.

I dropped the gun off at the gunsmith and he couldn’t get to it. What that told me, the project was gonna be too much of a problem. Which in turn would have been more money.

Maybe it would have turned out perfect. I finally decided that the KNS piston and the Wolverine would have to do.

View Quote

With more and more attention being applied to the AK platform and silencers I am sure we will see some sort of significant innovation for suppressed use. I have some ideas that may be good, but no time to prototype and test. I hope 2019 will afford me some time to explore a few things and see if they work in reality as well as they work in my mind. I would like a suppressed AK, but it just isn't a very easy or appealing endeavor given the existing gas system design. I kind of have one, but it hardly seems suppressed and it is so disappointing that I don't bother with it anymore. I look at it as a reminder that there is a lot of room for improvement when it comes to suppressing the AK platform.

Posted: 1/11/2019 8:05:01 AM EDT

[#25]

I had Taylor Pickerell thread both of my AK's 1/2x28.
Mine were both new thread cuts but if I'm not mistaken he told me you can turn down 14mm threads and have enough meat left for new 1/2x28 threads underneath.
This allows the new threads to be cut concentric to the bore.
My Saiga and Pap92 both have KNS pistons and I run a Saker or Hybrid on both.

I will be doing this to my Mini Draco in the future.

Posted: 1/11/2019 9:29:00 AM EDT

[#26]

How far off was it when you checked the alignment? The hole in a .45 suppressor is 50% larger diameter than a .30 Cal one. That may be enough wiggle room for your alignment rod and bullets to make it through.

Solution? You have an excuse to buy another silencer.

Posted: 1/11/2019 10:13:19 AM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
I had Taylor Pickerell thread both of my AK's 1/2x28.
Mine were both new thread cuts but if I'm not mistaken he told me you can turn down 14mm threads and have enough meat left for new 1/2x28 threads underneath.
This allows the new threads to be cut concentric to the bore.
My Saiga and Pap92 both have KNS pistons and I run a Saker or Hybrid on both.

I will be doing this to my Mini Draco in the future.

View Quote

That’s awesome. I wonder what the suppression difference would be between a Saker (with correct threads) and a Wolverine. Both with the KNS piston. Just wondering in my mind.

Edit. I looked at sending off the rifle to Taylor. The cost of sending an NFA item, plus the actual work (with no room for error because there isn’t much barrel) and I got a Wolverine for $625 (new). I decided to go with the Wolverine.

Posted: 1/11/2019 10:48:40 PM EDT

[#28]

Converting the threads to 1/2-28 is fairly interesting. 14mm converts to 0.551". Threads may not be very nice looking, but it would get the job done.

Posted: 1/12/2019 8:40:21 PM EDT

[#29]

my draco was threaded to 1/2-28 with an AAC mount installed. gun was overgassed to hell with my SDN-6, only Bulgy mags could keep up with the bolt cycling. After less than two hundred rounds, it broke the rear trunnion loose. I had it fixed and sold it off to a buddy who didn't want to run it with a can. He may sell it back to me. Does anyone know if the KNS piston is working successfully on a Draco with a can?

Posted: 1/13/2019 10:59:28 AM EDT

[#30]

I don't know about a Draco, but my Pap92 went from slamming the carrier into the trunion and ejecting empty brass into the next zip code to ejecting 4-5 feet at 3 o'clock and almost no recoil. I'm sold on the KNS piston even without a suppressor.

Posted: 1/13/2019 11:18:57 AM EDT

[#31]

I stripped the gun and sent him the barreled receiver. It was not that bad.
I think it was less than $200 including shipping.

Posted: 1/13/2019 11:51:08 AM EDT

[#32]

Looking at the specs I found 14mm minor diameter at .495 inch and major 1/2 diameter at .497 +or- .003 inch so it is close but can definitely be feasible.

Posted: 1/13/2019 12:29:43 PM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:
Looking at the specs I found 14mm minor diameter at .495 inch and major 1/2 diameter at .497 +or- .003 inch so it is close but can definitely be feasible.

View Quote

And it's actually gonna be even worse than that on one side since the 14mm threads aren't concentric to begin with.

Posted: 1/13/2019 8:49:31 PM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:
I stripped the gun and sent him the barreled receiver. It was not that bad.
I think it was less than $200 including shipping.

View Quote

That's a great deal.

Posted: 1/15/2019 2:14:45 AM EDT

[#35]

Morgan at Class 3 Machining has my M92 right now, shipping costs to him + $120 gets my barrel threaded and a 1/2x28 SiCo FH bored out to .30 cal

Posted: 1/15/2019 8:37:22 AM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

Quoted:
Morgan at Class 3 Machining has my M92 right now, shipping costs to him + $120 gets my barrel threaded and a 1/2x28 SiCo FH bored out to .30 cal

View Quote

If you are willing, it would be great to see some detail pics of the threads. I'm not set up to be able to do anything like this that quickly, having only one lathe for everything that gets done, and it would be great to have another company to use to get work like this done for local customers who are interested. That's a phenomenal price if it turns out good.

Posted: 1/15/2019 8:38:03 AM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:

And it's actually gonna be even worse than that on one side since the 14mm threads aren't concentric to begin with.

View Quote

Bore not being centered in the barrel could double that.

Posted: 1/20/2019 8:10:34 AM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:

If you are willing, it would be great to see some detail pics of the threads. I'm not set up to be able to do anything like this that quickly, having only one lathe for everything that gets done, and it would be great to have another company to use to get work like this done for local customers who are interested. That's a phenomenal price if it turns out good.

View Quote

Yeah I will when I get it back. I know he’s done a few so I’m expecting it’ll turn out great

Posted: 1/21/2019 2:31:55 PM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:

If you are willing, it would be great to see some detail pics of the threads. I'm not set up to be able to do anything like this that quickly, having only one lathe for everything that gets done, and it would be great to have another company to use to get work like this done for local customers who are interested. That's a phenomenal price if it turns out good.

View Quote

Here's pic of my M92 threads Morgan did for me a while back.

Posted: 1/21/2019 5:35:45 PM EDT

[#40]

Looks great from here.

Posted: 1/21/2019 11:05:25 PM EDT

[#41]

Also looks like I am about to send them a Saiga 5.45. Even with the cost of shipping I am still way ahead of the game not threading my own rifle. Who would think it? Those guys are on top of comms too, refreshing.

Posted: 1/22/2019 9:51:36 AM EDT

[#42]

Yep. Morgan runs a tight ship. I think longest I've had to wait when sending him one is about 10 days and that includes the shipping both directions. Some other gunsmiths your shit will set on their floor 5 months while they pussyfoot around.

Posted: 1/22/2019 4:01:21 PM EDT

[#43]

Quote History

Quoted:
Yep. Morgan runs a tight ship. I think longest I've had to wait when sending him one is about 10 days and that includes the shipping both directions. Some other gunsmiths your shit will set on their floor 5 months while they pussyfoot around.

View Quote

Ultimately that happened to me. My FFLs machinist has a day job. Shit didn’t even get looked at.

My FFL guy is just that. He’s not a machinist or gunsmith, nor does he pretend to be. He does provide a venue for the machinist, but whatever.

Posted: 1/26/2019 10:46:34 AM EDT

[#44]

And here's pics of mine, sorry for the delay

Attached File

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Mini Draco suppressed

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