How does Ivan deal with corrosive ammo in the field.  If I'm out on a 10 day and Day 2 we come into contact, but we don't have contact the entire rest of the trip, how do they deal with corrosive ammo?  Do they clean the rifle  Do they not worry about it?

Pretty sure they don't care.  I mean, it's the country that sent boys to war, one with some bullets and the other with the rifle.

Besides, what makes you think they don't issue field cleaning kits, or that Ivan can't figure out how water down the bore?

If no cleaning kit is available, hot water or urine, as long as the corrosive salts are washed away. Windex too. That's followed with oil dripping from the tank engine or whatever lubricant they can find.

Seriously, AKs don't need to be babied and they last A LONG TIME; that was the whole idea behind the design. I have a pic somewhere of an Afghan firing an original AK47, Type 1 stamped receiver*. You're talking an almost 70-year old assault rifle, probably fired full auto most of its life, probably not maintained the way we take care of our guns, and still going strong.

* Fun fact if the day...The very first AK47s had stamped receivers, but the Russians had difficulty with properly heat treating the receivers and not warping them, so they went with what they had tons of experience in - machined receivers. Milled receivers were still AK47s but now had an interim Type 2 receiver. The milled ones you see today are usually Type 3 receivers.

Pour water down the barrel. Yes it's that simple.

Good question. Can also be asked of all American veterans prior to Korea when all ammo was corrosive. I'd be very curious how the Marines handled it especially after a beach landing.

My dad was a conscript and issued an AK in the 60's but I doubt he remembers anything about guns or cleaning. All he remembered was laying in the snow for many hours aiming....and just aiming...freezing but not firing anything. I think they each fired a few dozen rounds total during entire service.

I'm sure that units involved in lots of shooting just let it rust until the excitement is over then clean. That's the beauty of the AK, just shoot the rust off and keep going.

Urine has a lot of salt in it, so using it to rinse out salts might not work as well as you’d think.

I read somewhere that the VC and NVA would chamber a fresh round before an overnight mission. That way if they had contact, the fresh round would break loose the action, which would rust shut in the jungle humidity, allowing them to finish the magazine.

I have read accounts from US troops who found AK's rusted shut where the bolt could not be pulled back so they fired the round in the chamber and waalaa it's "working smoothly" again. Not something I want to do as my usual maintenance regiment though.

x2

Yep.  As long as you wash the salt away and then lube you should be GTG.

Professional Soldiers regularly conduct weapons maintenance in combat and field environments.  It falls under the hierarchy of the "priorities of work" during periods of rest or lulls in fighting/patrolling.  It usually takes priority over eating, sleeping, or conducting personal hygiene.  Weapons are broken down to major component groups to avoid losing small parts (pins & springs) and at the very least wiped down and relubed, and maybe a patch or boresnake ran down the barrel.  The whole process takes a few minutes, then the Soldier moves on to the next priority of work.

I'm not talking about our military. I remember the daily fun with M16A1 (old, ain't I).  I was thinking of the Russians or maybe some guerilla group.

It was common in eastern bloc militaries to provide an alkali solvent solution that was mixed in the field with water and used to fill the second chamber in the typical two chamber oiling bottle used by many eastern bloc countries - fill one side with solvent, one with oil. Alkali solution would neutralize corrosive salts.

I had read this a long time in the past and forgot where it came from.. One account is from "Serbian and Yugoslav Mauser Rifles" by Branko Bogdanovic. Obviously the above was not always done but how it was "supposed" to be done.



It would be an interesting question to ask Paul at AKOU as he served in the Polish Army around the time when they probably would have still been practicing more eastern doctrine

Yeah, the Soviet Army wasn't too much into throwing away equipment by allowing soldiers to ignore maintenance. They hard chromed the bores and gas pistons to decrease the damage caused by corrosive ammo and keep even ignored weapons functional.

As for how the US Army handled the effects of corrosive ammo in the jungles of the Philippines, they trashed a lot of Garands and BARs. Read:

https://www.amazon.com/Ordnance-Went-Front-Roy-Dunlap-ebook/dp/B005PQ56TY

He talks about Garand gas piston to gas cylinder would corrode together. When cleaned there would be too much clearance and the action wouldn't function. The BAR's weak spot was the fixed barrel, corrosive solvent cleaner would be used in the barrel but then run into the buffer in the stock, damaging it and deadlining the BAR.

His book also has a wealth of information about German & Italian arms as Dunlop was also attached to the British 8th Army in north Africa.

AJ

Here's the formula for the Soviet cleaning solution.........

Soviet alkaline bore cleaner.

Rifle bore cleaning solution is prepared in units in sufficient quantity for cleaning weapons over the coarse of a single day. Solution is composed of :
-water suitable for drinking-1 liter
-ammonium carbonate -200 grams
-potassium bichromate- 3-5 grams
A small amount of cleaner can be stored for not more than seven days in a glass container with tight lid, in a dark place away from heat source.
The pouring of rifle bore cleaning into oilers is prohibited.

I'm assuming that this means mixing bore cleaner and oil in the same oiler is not allowed.

Almost correct.
All USGI 30 Carbine Ammo is non corrosive, even back to WW2.

Chrome lined barrel.  There's a reason many original Yugoslavian surplus barrel bores looks like 100 year old sewer pipes

When I shoot corrosive milsurp ammo I clean with Windex, then Hoppes #9 and finish up with a light patch of Hoppes Gun Oil.

Windex isn't really that much better at cutting the corrosive salts than just water, but it does clean the crud out better due to the soap, etc.  Hoppes #9 just smells good (Hoppes Copper Cutter not so much).

Anyway, been shooting milsurp ammo for years and this has always worked for me.  There are lots of perfectly acceptable ways to clean, this is the one I use.

Yes. I have read that a few times. It is the prime reason given for the poor accuracy of typical M1 Carbines...Ironically, since they used non-corrosive ammo most have original barrels, which after 70+ years are a little worn. If it had used corrosive ammo, the barrel would have been pitted and changed out a few times by the time we/CMP got it.

Back in the 80's when most of the X39 ammo available was corrosive Chinese, I went a few days without cleaning my AK sometimes. I also had no clue about using water to clean corrosive residue and only used Hoppes and gun oil to clean. Anyway, after shooting corrosive ammo and being outside overnight (also it was raining) I noticed the slant brake on my AK was red with rust. But I dont remember any rust in/on the chrome bore or the internals. I bet there was some rust in the gas block and gas tube but dont remember. Anyway it was superficial surface rust but I bet anything more than 224 hours and some pitting on important parts would be a risk.

Fast forward to my Army days, we would sometimes clean our lower receivers in the shower, using the super hot, remove-your-skin GI showers to totally clean and degrease the lower parts (we didnt have Gun Scrubber and compressed air back then). I would probably use a similar method on my AK if using corrosive ammo. Hot water will evaporate in less than a minute, then clean normally. Even out in the field, a canteen cup of near boiling water down the barrel and then some down the gas block should get most of the salts.

They'd probably clean it as soon as they could.  Cleaning firearms is a military tradition that's over 500 years old, and it's only gotten easier over time.  They're not that dumb.  They know what to do.

I have a Czech Mauser that was used by Iran.  It has rust and pitting all over the exterior but that bore is PERFECT.  

In the Civil War the soldiers had to deal with some pretty annoying cleaning routines with their muzzleloaders and black powder. They'd use water and I think follow it with something like olive oil.

Properly cleaning a Garand after firing corrosive is a very long process that requires a lot of patience; no wonder all the ones that saw combat were trashed and needed to be rebuilt.

Non corrosive primers give poor accuracy???

It's been a very long time since the russian army doesn't use any corrosive ammo at all

He means because they didn't use corrosive primers the barrels survived the war and were never replaced, so all the barrels on m1 carbines are 70+years old and often with thousands of rounds fired. Whereas garands firing corrosive ammo were practically ruined, having to be rebuilt using new barrels, so they would be more accurate, only because they're less shot out