I'm going to build a rifle for a buddy who wants an AR, but wants something more potent than the .223 ammo I kill deer with.

He'll most likely shoot deer and maybe coyotes.

He was asking me about .308, and I had mentioned 6.8 as an alternative since we wouldnt have to get special receivers and so on.

Can anyone guide me which is going to be a better way to go? We have a few places that 4-500 yard shots on deer are possible, but most shots should be 300 yards and under.

ammo price/availability?
accuracy?
recoil?
knockdown?
build cost?
anything else you can think of?

go .308, no question.  Ammo cost will be about the same because i'm sure you will buy hunting rounds in which case both 6.8 and .308 will be at least a dollar a round.  ammo availability alone makes me like .308

+1 on this.  As someone who uses 7mmWSM for deer hunting, finding ammo can sometimes be frustrating and problematic.

I think it will come down to preference.  I don't think you will see that much difference in what either projectile is going to do to a deer with a well placed shot, of course if it is a larger deer a shot too for forward with a lighter round might not penetrate all the bone and get through to those vitals.  I read once about that issue hunting deer with .223 but with a 6.8 or 308 I just don't expect that to be a huge issue with the right bullets.  Of course my opinion is coming from a guy who shoots em with a 7mm Rem Mag, I like my deer to fall right where they get hit, I'm not so good with the tracking ;)

My daughter didnt have any trouble double lunging a big 8 pointer with 223 this weekend. Its all about shot placement. That being said, I would go with the 308.

thanks for the replies...........he's leaning towards .308 right now, and even mentioned a Remington R-25 that I wouldnt have to mess with.

He has a 24" bull barrel 5.56 he was talking about selling to help fund it, or rebuilding it in 6.8SPC.

We'll see, I'll pass the info along. I know him and his dad have some .308 mil. surplus sitting around, so maybe that will sway him.

Just a reminder, it's got to be some type of soft point/expanding.  No hunting with FMJ.

Buy an ARMALITE. Yes, I drink the kool aid.

I'll buck the trend!  I'd build a 6.8spc, nice and light, more than enough power to get the job done.  I keep reading great things about the barnes tsx loads on the variant forum on hogs and whitetails.

PTK

It all depends on whether I was going to be shooting from a deer stand "bench shooting" or if I was going to be walking around with the gun all day.  The 6.8 would be fine at the range we typically shoot deer in MO and my 6.8 is much easier to carry all day than a .308.

If he already has a .308 rifle in the collection, I would go for the 6.8.  If he doesn't have a .308 and is interested in shooting bigger game or longer distance (hunting in the Western states) I would get the .308.

I have heard people getting 2900+ fps from the 85-90 gr 6.8 with the specII chamber with the faster burning powder.  I need to see what muzzle velocity I can get from my 12.7" with the 85 gn TSX.

Something I never researched, do we have mag limits here in MO for deer hunting?  Its been years since I hunted here, and I dont remember.  This is for the M1a, so I say get him to get a .308

308!


We kill many each yr with 223, never a problem, its what my 3 daughters use, never fails them and they fill alot of farm tags, just got 2 this weekend.

Hell, i see more deer killed with .22lr then any other rnd, even a .22 short will kill them, just gotta know where to shoot them.

10 rounds total in the mag and it must BE a 10 round mag, not a blocked 20 or 30 round mag...
Silly but Meh whatever.

..... .30-06 has sure stood the test of time, I can say that.

DPMS Panther™ LR-308 24" Bull Barrel .308 Cal - $1082.70
http://www.rrarms.com/catalog.php?prod=GRFLR-308

or

DPMS Panther™ LR-308B, 18" Bull Barrel With Fluts & Miculek Comp .308 Cal - $1070.12
http://www.rrarms.com/catalog.php?prod=GRFLR-308B-UG34THMIC

It's high quality, accurate and relatively cheap

"ammo price/availability?  308"  .308 will be cheaper if you buy the bottom of the barrel soft points, but if you start comparing premium hunting bullets the costs are equal. Availablility is alright, 6.8 can be found at cabelas and the gun shops in my area.  If you reload then its a wash.

"308, partly because of the above and 308 used to be the "match" caliber " ...used to be for matches that were mil-rifle matches, of course most of those matches are now dominated by AR's, and other matches without caliber restrictions are a mix of calibers with the 6.5's starting to dominate.  Just look at the rolls for some of the unknown distance practical matches, or an across the course match.  

"knockdown?"  So .308 will knock them off their feet and 6.8 won't?  Here I thought it was all about the stuff that bleeds that you poke holes in with bullets.  Any of you guys familiar in physics want to give us a lesson about newtons laws?

PTK

308 will be cheaper and easier to find ammo for and meets all other criteria.
6.8 will work just as well but like any other less common rounds ammo will be harder to find and a much more limited selection.
If it was me I would go with the 6.8 but then again I am a reloader so the ammo problem wouldn't really affect me.
I would advise 308 for non-reloaders.

I am a reloader and I sold my 6.8 after not even a full year of having it. I then bought an ar-10 and carried it on all day hunts with no problem. It was heavier though. I then sold it and am going to buy or build  a .308 carbine as an all around rifle that wont be hard to feed. If I need ammo I want to be able to find it anywhere and 6.8 isnt that easy to find. One more vote for .308

I sold my HK91 and bought a Remington 700 in .30-06 because I didn't want to lug the heavy thing around. No matter how I set up my hunt, I tend to still hunt and explore anyway. Nonetheless, even a .30 bolt action isn't all that light.

I also bought a .30-30 and found it handier than the long bolt action. A scoped rifle is less user friendly in SW MO woods as their are few shots needing the reach. The lever action is much easier to carry, use, and fire. Still, you have to manually operate either.

I'm building an AR in 6.8. There are specific reasons: it's enough gun for how I shoot. 300 yards is an uncommon shot regardless of who is behind the sights, most shots are under 150. That is supported by the dismal ballistics of the .30-30, which still takes a lot of deer, and has over the years. It's not known for much over 200 yards.

Two, the operation of the AR is semi auto - I got used to that with the HK. No sudden manipulation of an action, loss of sight picture, or slow followup shot. Just track and pull trigger again if needed. Plus, the 6.8 has less recoil - the sight picture won't radically change when firing. You don't get that with any .30 cal. You will have to put up with two more pounds of carry weight, tho.

Three, the 6.8 has nearly the same flat trajectory of the .308 - it's one reason it was engineered. Another, terminal performance. It has much more the performance of the .308, not the 5.56. It uses the .270 bullet, and those .270 bolt actions have long had a reputation for plenty of power. The 6.8 is even better.

Ammo availability is weak excuse in the day of the internet and home delivery. Most people who state that old chestnut are really saying they don't take the time to plan ahead, don't buy ammo more than a few boxes at a time, don't consistently use the same load, can't always have their rifle sighted in for it, don't shoot enough at the range, or any combination. It strongly hints of not being a shooter anymore than drag racing the family van on Saturday.

I've got my Fudd fodder shooters for backup - I'm moving to something that offers great power for the weight, less recoil, and easier operation, and which fits the way deer are actually hunted. It isn't really a problem to feed. Just use the resources like this forum and it's sponsors. Doesn't always have to be the "Mart.

I had plenty of reloading supplies for my 6.8 and I do prepare I shoot every week. It is fact that anywhere you go will be 90% more likely to have .308 then any 6.8 'What if you go out of town and for some reason forget to pack your ammo or some weird thing happens and you just dont have your 6.8 you go to any sporting goods store and your .308 is on the shelf, you good to go. There is no need to insult anyone with unthought out remarks.

that said. And no disrespect to anyone here. I too am useing an auto loader along with my bolt gun. Anyone that thinks they have to have a fullly loaded semi auto to deer hunt with needs to remember that it should really only take 1 shot to put down a deer. Im just useing my ar for fun. My main rifle will be my 700. I have hunted for many years with the same 30-30 and 30-06 and I just want to change it up a little. I hunt tree lines and long crop fields so I do have the ability to shoot long distance.

all good stuff guys........thank you!

I talked to him about the DPMS and Armalite .308 offerings and he's not a big fan of the cost to buy spare magazines for those platforms, including the R-25 now. He's leaning towards the RRA Lar-8 .308 that takes FAL mags, which would be convenient since he has a metric ton of those laying around, including multiple mags that are 10 rounds or less for hunting.
He WAS interested in the CMMG setup that takes G3 mags, but they dont sell an upper to match it to build on, and doesnt want to mess with "modifying" it regardless of the low cost of the mags.

The surplus ammo he has would be for plinking, since he wants to use it for that as well.

He already has a 16" 5.56 AR he brings to shoot when I'm blasting away with my ARs, and the 24" AR he picked up last year that we posted for sale today. So he's pretty happy with the AR platform. Most of his shooting will be from a deer stand he built that is kinda like a little house built on stilts, so semi-benchrest if you will.

He tried for 2 years to make a decent hunting rifle out of his FAL before selling it last fall.....but never could get a scope mount to hold zero for longer than a few shots. He has a bolt action .30-06 at home....but anymore its just collecting alot of dust and not seeing much use, but he wont sell it since his dad gave it to him even if he doesnt like using it as much.

Me personally, I'm going to take a deer with each of my 5.56 AR's that haven't killed one yet......then switch to my Glock 17 for the remainder of deer season if my SWR Trident9 and 10 round mag come in on time.

I'll let you know about the 6.8 when I get back in two weeks.

What about the 243WSSM???     CB

This. I'm hoping mine is ready for next season...I prob. won't go this year.

Ballistics and Ammo/Bullet choices would lean toward 308

nice find!

I'm trying to convince him to do it my way (buy both!), but he keeps bitching about money and blah blah blah.

I'm wanting to build something before too long.....looking more and more like .308 for my build! I think he's going to pick up the RRA Lar-8 .308 if he can find one.

Armalite just put out their Thanksgiving sale today (or so). .338 Federal complete uppers are on sale.....

He won't be dissapointed with the RRA

3 Years with CMMG 6.8 and love it for deer hunting. I but it together when I worked for them and just love the 6.8 Yes it is a lefty.