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I have my doubts from what little i know about lasers. The part of turning it into a surgical laser was a bit over the top.
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First off. That's not how lasers work, so no.
Second, if the Russians had laser pistols in the 80's why the fuck are we still shooting M16s? |
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the answer to this question is all about stored or potential energy.
Something that small to fit in a cartridge isn't going to have enough energy to do much even if it does generate a beam. You might be able to get a small, short burst out of it that could melt a synthetic fabric or something, but burning through any metal or substantial object is not likely. Even small lab scale lasers and masers are into the kilowatt and megawatt range now and those take a significant energy source to drive them to that level. Now if this was a tool to calibrate a reflector or optical communications device.......I could see that. |
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can anyone translate: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%82 sorry for off topic but you Avatar creaps me out, please explain |
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Quoted: I have my doubts from what little i know about lasers. The part of turning it into a surgical laser was a bit over the top. Having actually worked on surgical lasers, that little pea shooter wouldn't have the power to do shit (surgically) with any technology available today that doesn't involve a power cord, a bank of batteries, or a fiber optic.. |
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can anyone translate: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%82 sorry for off topic but you Avatar creaps me out, please explain Looks like Gummo. |
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can anyone translate: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%82 sorry for off topic but you Avatar creaps me out, please explain Sorry to derail further. It's from the movie Gummo. And if you think that avatar is creepy, try watching the whole movie. Just think if the boys in Gummo had that laser pistol instead of pellet guns how many more cats they might have bagged! |
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Chemical laser
Plausible, but not likely real, that Russian ray gun. The USAF A.B.L. Uses a huge chemical charge to create the photons needed to destroy missiles in the boost phase. |
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I'm still hoping for that Phase Plasma Rifle in a 40 watt range. Until then I guess I will have to make due with a Galil, SPAS 12, Uzi, and AMT .45 Longslide Hardballer with a laser "scope".
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can anyone translate: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%82 It says that it's less lethal. |
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can anyone translate: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%82 sorry for off topic but you Avatar creaps me out, please explain Sorry to derail further. It's from the movie Gummo. And if you think that avatar is creepy, try watching the whole movie. Just think if the boys in Gummo had that laser pistol instead of pellet guns how many more cats they might have bagged! One of the many "WTF" scenes from Gummo. I thought the strip of bacon taped to the shower wall would fit right in here. Back on topic: It looks like there is a revolver version as well, very interesting. used in the Soviet space program. I didn't know the Soviets had Cosmonaut door gunners. |
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can anyone translate: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%82 sorry for off topic but you Avatar creaps me out, please explain Sorry to derail further. It's from the movie Gummo. And if you think that avatar is creepy, try watching the whole movie. Just think if the boys in Gummo had that laser pistol instead of pellet guns how many more cats they might have bagged! What a great movie. I was under the impression cosmonauts carried Maks? |
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I was under the impression cosmonauts carried Maks?
On early Soyuz missions, their survival kit included a side by side coach gun. It was packed away in case they landed off course, and had to hunt game or fight off wolves. |
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http://i.imgur.com/9GeH4.jpg On another discussion forum called Reddit.com, there is a user named Russian_Bear2011 who posts tons of outstanding Russian military photos to the military subforums. He's been a wealth of knowledge so far. Today he posted this. I've never heard of it, or anything even remotely like it. Here is his description of how it works: This is a pistol with bullets, inside each bullet is a mix of zirconium foil, oxygen and a metal salt. At the moment of pulling the trigger, this mix blows up, creating a very huge flash in a reflecting camera. Than an optical resonator uses that light to create the coherent beam - Laser.
Simple as it is. If needed, at any moment this laser could become a surgical laser scalpel.
I don't have a scientific background and this is essentially magic to me. Has anyone heard of this before? Is the concept viable? Of course! Every university in the US had a laser that was the size of a small car and was able to burn through paper back in the '80s. Meanwhile, the Soviets had something that looks like it was made in a high school metal shop class and could vaporize human flesh. This looks like one of those fantasy/steampunk type projects to me. |
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Think about it if you are space walking and everyone is in a space suit all you would need to do is make a small hole in the space suit and the dude in it would be dead.
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I would expect any sort of optically pumped solid state laser to have a lasing medium at one focus of an elliptical chamber, and the source of the flash at the other focus. Unless you used a helical flash source (e.g. the original ruby laser).
This 'gun' appears to have a cylindrical area where I would expect this elliptical chamber to be. So, barring a demonstration of the device, I say it's a prop of some sort. |
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Think about it if you are space walking and everyone is in a space suit all you would need to do is make a small hole in the space suit and the dude in it would be dead. That has verisimilitude! |
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Think about it if you are space walking and everyone is in a space suit all you would need to do is make a small hole in the space suit and the dude in it would be dead. That has verisimilitude! Holy crap were you reading a dictionary this morning? |
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Chemists and physicists your input is needed here.
I doubt the device if it functioned as described would be any sort of continuous projection laser, laser scalper or death ray. It could in theory be a chemical laser hand held hole poker. Sort of like convention pistol is. It maybe plausible if the chemical part of the story are correct. Such a thing could be useful for making small perforations at close distance again like convention pistol is, but with out the equal and opposite reaction effect of recoil like a conventional pistol. Possibly a spot welder ? |
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It is difficult to imagine the specific utility of a functioning device of this design. Even if it worked, it can't have a very high repetition rate, as there is no visible provision for cooling of the lasing medium. Since repetition rate is the only reason I can imagine wanting to use a chemical optical pump instead of an electronic flash tube, this thing simply makes no sense.
It might have been a proof of concept for a chemically fired optical pump solid state laser pistol, but it certainly is not a useful device, assuming it works at all, which I doubt, because I don't see any evidence of an appropriate elliptical reflective cavity. |
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Would cooling still be needed if the "laser pistol" was used in space?
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Would cooling still be needed if the "laser pistol" was used in space? Yes. Things dont cool as well in space, no air to conduct away excess heat. |
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Would cooling still be needed if the "laser pistol" was used in space? Yes. Things dont cool as well in space, no air to conduct away excess heat. How much air would you need when the temp is -444 f? |
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Would cooling still be needed if the "laser pistol" was used in space? Yes. Things dont cool as well in space, no air to conduct away excess heat. How much air would you need when the temp is -444 f? In an atmosphere, objects transfer heat to and from their suroundings via conduction, convection, and radiation. Without air, the only way an object can get rid of heat is through radiation. That's why thermos bottles work. So while objects in space eventually get very cold or very hot depending on the location of a nearby star, they don't do it instantly and in fact tend to lose heat far less effectively than in an atmosphere. |
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Think about it if you are space walking and everyone is in a space suit all you would need to do is make a small hole in the space suit and the dude in it would be dead. Not... quite. The depiction of the effects of humans being exposed while in space in media is generally extraordinarily unrealistic. Death is certainly not instantaneous, and while it's not good if you have a hole in an EMU it won't necessarily spell disaster for the astronaut inside. |
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That's pretty cool.
How do you work that tiny little trigger with gloves on? |
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Why would a laser have a magazine?
That looks like a crude joke. It's a cake decorator. |
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Quoted: Why would a laser have a magazine? That looks like a crude joke. It's a cake decorator. There are two lines of text quoted in the original post explaining why the laser pistol comes with ammo cartridges. The validity of their use is in doubt, however. |
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Why would the Soviets issue something so absurdly crude it looks like it came from a middle-school machine shop?
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Why would a laser have a magazine? That looks like a crude joke. It's a cake decorator. There are two lines of text quoted in the original post explaining why the laser pistol comes with ammo cartridges. The validity of their use is in doubt, however. If you are going to use a cartridge I guess you are stuck using a mag or a cylinder. I would think loading one at a time wouldn't work too well. |
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.....and it is super-cool the cartridge has extractor grooves on either end!
Let me again raise the flag |
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Why would the Soviets issue something so absurdly crude it looks like it came from a middle-school machine shop? http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcToSUYmmvqbadqvw5Ol7BJk1VZ_61gkgWYkVRVdiXv08FCAuGmbGNKoCZIexg Oh snap! |
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Google Translate gives some interesting insight into the Russian Wikipedia entry:
The laser gun with a pyrotechnic flash lamp (laser weapons defense of individual astronauts) - Soviet pilot manual laser weapons non-lethal , developed in 1984 the design team of the Military Academy RVSN . Designed to effectively disabling the sensitive elements of optical systems of the enemy - in a spacecraft or in the open space in close combat - without the risk of damage to the skin or non-optical equipment and without the recoil, not allowing the use of firearms in weightlessness.
Is a monument to science and technology [2] [3] . Content [убрать] 1 History 2 The device 3 Options 4 laser gun at the present time 5 Cultural influence 6 Notes 7 Literature 8 References 9 See also [ edit ] History In 70 years of XX century , many states (in the first place - the Soviet Union and the U.S. ) launched a program leading work on the creation of different laser devices for military and peaceful purposes - including the work was begun to develop weapons, damaging element is a laser beam. SRF staff began the development of "individual self-defense laser weapons astronaut" - the laser gun . The research team led by chief of department, honored worker of science and technology of the RSFSR , doctor of technical sciences, professor, General-Major Victor Samsonovich Sulakvelidze ( 1919 - 1984 ). Theoretical and experimental studies of the harmful effect of the laser gun doing Ph.D., professor Boris Duvanov. The design was worked out weapons researcher A. Simonov, researcher L. Avakyants and associate Vladimir Gorev participated in the trials. Before the goal was to develop the designers of laser weapons, which according to weight, size and layout does not differ from the army pistol. [ edit ] The device See also: Laser # Laser Device The laser gun is a fiber laser optical pumping. Its main elements, as well as any laser , are the active medium , the pump source and an optical resonator . Source of optical pumping of the laser gun is a one-time fireworks flash lamp , made in the form of rounds of 10 mm, inside of which is covered with a pyrotechnic mixture of combustible and paste tungsten - rhenium filament for its ignition. Pyrotechnic mixture is ignited by applying to the tungsten-rhenium filament of an electric spark from an external source. Eight flash lamps placed in a cage, like patrons in a cage fire a gun. After each "shot" spent lamp is thrown like a sleeve, and next served in the lighting chamber. Pyrotechnic mixture flashbulbs - zirconium foil, oxygen and a metal salt. Set on fire by the metal in the lamp burns out during 5-10 ms at a temperature of about 5000 K. By using a flash lamp zirconium foil specific light energy pyrotechnic lamps are three times higher than conventional models, which use magnesium. Added to the mixture of metal salt, "urged on" light bulbs to the absorption spectrum of the active element. Pyrotechnic mixture is non-toxic and not prone spontaneously detonate. The active medium and optical resonator arms are a fiber-optic active element, which absorbs radiation from burns in the chamber lighting flash lamp. This makes him a laser pulse directed through the gun barrel to the target. The radiation energy within the limits of 1.10 J (comparable to a bullet fired from an air rifle), is sufficient to incapacitate the sensitive elements of optical systems (including the eye of man) of the enemy, but too small to damage the spacecraft or the skin of non- optical devices (this is attributable to the eye and optics focus the rays on the orders of increasing the density of radiation). Blinding and searing action keeps the beam at a distance of 20 m. [ edit ] Variants On the basis of the laser gun was also developed a laser gun with drum magazine for six "rounds". Possible modification of the gun assault weapons in the medical instrument. [ edit ] The laser gun now The laser gun with a pyrotechnic flash lamp is a monument to science and technology. His copy is kept at the Museum of the history of the Strategic Missile Forces Military Academy named after Peter the Great, being the most popular museum exhibit [3] [2] . [ edit ] Cultural influence Works on creation of an individual is devoted to laser weapons, training and popular film "Dangerous Ray" studios Ministry of Defence [4] . In the movie 2001 "Planet of the Apes" a fictional weapon of the protagonist visually nearly identical to the laser gun (shoots but flying with a relatively low rate of energy blobs that looked like plasmoids ) [5] . In science-fiction novel by Sergei Lukyanenko , " Stars - cold toys "( 1997 ) contains developed by Russian or Soviet scientists, laser gun, which uses disposable cartridges, capacitors, contained in a holder and emitted as spent cartridges after each shot. The laser gun with a pyrotechnic flash lamp
Laser pistol and revolver.png At the top left and continuing clockwise: the laser gun, laser gun, fiber optic active element. Type: Non-lethal weapons , laser weapons Country: The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics USSR The history of Designer : The design team, headed by VS Sulakvelidze Developed by: 1984 Manufacturer: Military Academy of Strategic Rocket Forces Years of production: Commercially produced no Total production: Unknown Options: The laser gun, laser medical Features Weight, kg: Is unknown, close to the mass army of gunshot samples Length, mm: ≈ 180 [1] Patron : Disposable pyrotechnic flashlamps special production Caliber , mm: 10 (the diameter of the flash lamp) Principles of operation : Optical pumping of the laser Rate , rds / min: Semi-automatic fire Muzzle velocity , m / s : 299 792 458 Sighting range , m: 20 Feed system : Shop for 8 rounds Sight : Open Nuvola apps kview.svg External Images Searchtool.svg A full-scale illustration of a laser gun If I'm understanding this correctly, it sounds like this was something more like a contained and directed flashbang device than a "laser gun" as popular culture would consider it. There would still need to be an external power source to ignite the mixture with each round, and manual operation of the bolt to eject and feed after each round. The extremely crude and doubtlessly unreliable nature of the magazine suggests that the feeding system was an afterthought to what was essentially a proof-of-concept demonstrator. |
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Why would the Soviets issue something so absurdly crude it looks like it came from a middle-school machine shop? http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcToSUYmmvqbadqvw5Ol7BJk1VZ_61gkgWYkVRVdiXv08FCAuGmbGNKoCZIexg Come, come now, compared to that icing dispenser in the original post, that looks like a James Purdy and Sons Royal Presentation Grade Rifle! |
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I would have rather had a G-17 with a Astro-Glove sized trigger guard. I bet a 9mm would work wonders on a Soviet Space Suit!
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I can visualize what they're describing, but I do not buy it. I found a reference from a mid-1970s Soviet journal describing such a pyrotechnic optical pumping mechanism, but I am dubious that this gun is actually built with that technology.
I think someone is putting together some technical terms to make it sound like a plausible weapon. |
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I've worked on many lasers for several decades now and while chemical lasers are not my expertise, I have to say, I doubt the device shown works completely as that describes. While optical pumps can be initiated by chemical reaction, I seriously doubt the ability to contain the reaction, and expect combustion products would contaminate the optics almost immediately. What wavelength was to come out and why? Overall also can't see the need to develop a "ray gun" that could inadvertently burn a hole catastrophically through needed equipment, or more likely to blind someone from even scattered beam.
A chemical reaction of that nature seems volatile and dangerous - at least the risk of accidental chemical fire would be far to risky to put aboard a very valuable spacecraft - And for what value? What do you need a gun in space for? What do you need a ray gun in space for? If it did work - why have no industrial purposes come of it? Cutting laser would sure be handier than carrying tanks for oxy-acetylene cutting? The US air force and NRO did studies of a firearms ability to perform in space borne environments including spacelike vacuum chambers -. If I can recall, it was determined that a basic revolver could function in space and that a ammunition cartridge would carry enough self-contained oxygen in a case to allow positive ignition. You got to love a country that pays for that kind of science ( : ) ) Overall though - Guns in space are not a practical idea - what would the use be - I think the Russians have employed guns on board many missions - but mostly as a survival guin that used traditional cartridges - I have a Finnish book on Russian guns that shows a picture of a cosmonaut survival gun. That is far more practical than a highly volatile (perhaps explosive) - single shot laser pistol. Officially I believe the US says there has been no guns in use in US space missions, although I think its been rumored that revolvers were covertly stashed on the Apollo–Soyuz Test Project (ASTP). Since revolvers would work in space, I find it hard to beleive the Russians went to work on a ray gun - after all thier answer to a space pen was to use pencils - I don't see them rushing to build a laser |
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I've worked on many lasers for several decades now and while chemical lasers are not my expertise, I have to say, I doubt the device shown works completely as that describes. While optical pumps can be initiated by chemical reaction, I seriously doubt the ability to contain the reaction, and expect combustion products would contaminate the optics almost immediately. What wavelength was to come out and why? Overall also can't see the need to develop a "ray gun" that could inadvertently burn a hole catastrophically through needed equipment, or more likely to blind someone from even scattered beam. A chemical reaction of that nature seems volatile and dangerous - at least the risk of accidental chemical fire would be far to risky to put aboard a very valuable spacecraft - And for what value? What do you need a gun in space for? What do you need a ray gun in space for? If it did work - why have no industrial purposes come of it? Cutting laser would sure be handier than carrying tanks for oxy-acetylene cutting? The US air force and NRO did studies of a firearms ability to perform in space borne environments including spacelike vacuum chambers -. If I can recall, it was determined that a basic revolver could function in space and that a ammunition cartridge would carry enough self-contained oxygen in a case to allow positive ignition. You got to love a country that pays for that kind of science ( : ) ) Overall though - Guns in space are not a practical idea - what would the use be - I think the Russians have employed guns on board many missions - but mostly as a survival guin that used traditional cartridges - I have a Finnish book on Russian guns that shows a picture of a cosmonaut survival gun. That is far more practical than a highly volatile (perhaps explosive) - single shot laser pistol. Officially I believe the US says there has been no guns in use in US space missions, although I think its been rumored that revolvers were covertly stashed on the Apollo–Soyuz Test Project (ASTP). Since revolvers would work in space, I find it hard to beleive the Russians went to work on a ray gun - after all thier answer to a space pen was to use pencils - I don't see them rushing to build a laser I was thinking about that while reading your post. |
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I've worked on many lasers for several decades now and while chemical lasers are not my expertise, I have to say, I doubt the device shown works completely as that describes. While optical pumps can be initiated by chemical reaction, I seriously doubt the ability to contain the reaction, and expect combustion products would contaminate the optics almost immediately. What wavelength was to come out and why? Overall also can't see the need to develop a "ray gun" that could inadvertently burn a hole catastrophically through needed equipment, or more likely to blind someone from even scattered beam. A chemical reaction of that nature seems volatile and dangerous - at least the risk of accidental chemical fire would be far to risky to put aboard a very valuable spacecraft - And for what value? What do you need a gun in space for? What do you need a ray gun in space for? If it did work - why have no industrial purposes come of it? Cutting laser would sure be handier than carrying tanks for oxy-acetylene cutting? The US air force and NRO did studies of a firearms ability to perform in space borne environments including spacelike vacuum chambers -. If I can recall, it was determined that a basic revolver could function in space and that a ammunition cartridge would carry enough self-contained oxygen in a case to allow positive ignition. You got to love a country that pays for that kind of science ( : ) ) Overall though - Guns in space are not a practical idea - what would the use be - I think the Russians have employed guns on board many missions - but mostly as a survival guin that used traditional cartridges - I have a Finnish book on Russian guns that shows a picture of a cosmonaut survival gun. That is far more practical than a highly volatile (perhaps explosive) - single shot laser pistol. Officially I believe the US says there has been no guns in use in US space missions, although I think its been rumored that revolvers were covertly stashed on the Apollo–Soyuz Test Project (ASTP). Since revolvers would work in space, I find it hard to beleive the Russians went to work on a ray gun - after all thier answer to a space pen was to use pencils - I don't see them rushing to build a laser I was thinking about that while reading your post. Yay, more misinformation! We used pencils too. A private company came up with a self-contained pressurized pen using its own funds. In the 60s both the US and Soviet space programs realized that broken pencil lead poses a danger in a zero gravity scientific environment, and both the US and Soviet space programs adopted the use of off the shelf pressurized "space pens" for an actual cost decrease. NASA spent approximately $1,000 for space pens in 1968, where-as before the cost for pencils was $4,300 in 1965. The Soviet space program purchased the exact same pens from the American company in 1969. Please stop spreading myths. |
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Capt-Planet, thanks for that information. I've heard that saying many times and always wondered how they contained the broken pencil lead and shavings from sharpening.
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From the way it reads it appears to be a very bright, short duration flash generator. The Google translator says it could be used to disable optical sensors or human eyes. Must have been made before we, the USA and USSR agreed to not have combat in space. At one time the Russians put guns on their manned spacecraft encase we wanted to board or destroy it. For a short while we both did or had plans for manned spy satellites to take pictures and bring film back. To protect the space station and CIA, I believe, astronauts we had plans for space guns too.
Advances in technology and cost to put men in space made manned spy satellites a thing of the past. Most of the time |
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Why go through all the hype when regular guns would work just fine?
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Why go through all the hype when regular guns would work just fine? Because it's the nature of various governmental research and development agencies to research and develop everything, even if it doesn't have an immediate practical advantage over preexisting technology. Everyone is focused on the obvious "just use a revolver" salient, while ignoring the fact that the USSR certainly had the resources to waste on random small-scale research projects like a prototype laser pistol. It seems completely plausible that someone might have commissioned a project like that, led it to produce a working demo model or two, and then been abandoned after as unworkable. We've certainly built plenty of idiotic firearms in the past that served no practical purpose, save to be able to say that we'd tried that particular concept and found it lacking. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Why go through all the hype when regular guns would work just fine? Because it's the nature of various governmental research and development agencies to research and develop everything, even if it doesn't have an immediate practical advantage over preexisting technology. Everyone is focused on the obvious "just use a revolver" salient, while ignoring the fact that the USSR certainly had the resources to waste on random small-scale research projects like a prototype laser pistol. It seems completely plausible that someone might have commissioned a project like that, led it to produce a working demo model or two, and then been abandoned after as unworkable. We've certainly built plenty of idiotic firearms in the past that served no practical purpose, save to be able to say that we'd tried that particular concept and found it lacking. Good point! |
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The shell/casing/whatever looks like 2 pistol cases stuck together it has extractor grooves on each side.
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