My department only allows us to use 55gr SP for duty ammo in our AR and i would have to purchase on my own. From what i see speer gold dot GDSP, federal tact tru SP (T223A), and federal bonded SP(LE223T1) are one of my best choice. I was wondering if any of you guys could help me out on this on making a decision and some info.

No 62gr.???  Geez.  62 would open up a LOT more options.  I'd shoot the Gold Dots in that case.  No doubt about it.

i would take the bonded so i could shoot perps through windows and whatnot





 

Sorry I missed that!  I agree with Taylor on this one.  Bonded FTW.

Our agency makes us use speer 64gr gold dot ammo  it is bonded and will penetrate well, one complaint is when I ran it over the chrony it was only clocking 2500fps out of a 16" barrel and we typically use 14.5" M-4's and M-4a1's. If you want penetration bonded is the way to go.

How do they define "soft point"

There are police agencies using Winchester Ballistic Silvertip. I havent heard any performance complaints from them.

Bonded, always bonded.

thanks guys for the info. and yes we can only use 55gr =/

The all copper Barnes 55 grain TAC TSX is superb and performs extremely well in the FBI barrier test.  It is a solid hollowpoint.  Don't know if it would be called a "soft point" although it is specifically designed for tactical use to both expand reliably and penetrate barriers with close to 100% retained weight.

It should be about 3100 fps fron a 16" barrel.

As an officer, he should avoid barnes TSX projectiles other than the 50gr BH loading.  Their petals sheer off or pinch shut in autoglass and heavy sheet metal.  That should definitely be a concern for LEOs.

how about xm193?

Swing and a miss.

He's asking for a duty round.

He's asking for it to be soft point.

He namedrops two soft point rounds which are very highly esteemed and a third round that's marginal.

For this lifesaving purpose in which reliability is paramount, you go ahead and suggest that he use not only FMJ, but FMJ that was rejected from Lake City contracts.

Yes, the 50grBH is much tougher than the normal TSX.  As a side effect of this toughness, it has a minimum expansion velocity of 2300fps.  Most TSXs has a min velocity of 1800ish with some down to 1600ish.  Oddly enough, the 300BO Blacktip TTSX has a min velocity of 1300fps but still makes it through metal and glass just fine.

My Department mandates 55 grain ammo because we still have some military surplus M16-A1 rifles on the street plus several hundred Armalite, Bushmaster and RRA with 16" 1:9 twist barrels.  Our Department issued Federal 55 grain bonded soft points  and before that non bonded 55 grain JSP WW.  We used 55 grain FMJ for training.

The proven Federal 55-gr. Trophy Bonded soft points are still a very good round.  IF your department would allow it, the 62-gr. Federal Fusion (similar to a 64-gr. Gold Dot) should easily stabilize in an older 1:9 weapon.  The 55-gr. Barnes bullets are outstanding as well.

If you are in Texas, I'm betting you work for the same agency I used to or one that uses their policy on carbines.  For a patrol rifle, 55 gr SP is fine, I carried simple remington express .223 SP in my patrol rifle. Anything from a better line of ammo is gravy.  Some people have a misconception of what an urban patrol rifle should be and know not what dept regs will allow them to do with it.  



 

Golddots also cmoe in 55gr.

SGAMMO 55gr GDs in stock

I don't want to derail but is there any reason not to use 55 grain as duty ammo? Most SP I find are 55 grain and I wish to fill five mags for worst case scenario. The ammo I see recommended the most is the heavier stuff and I wondering if it made a difference for SD (7' to 21') and hunting (200m). I see brands like Gold Dot available in 55 and 64 grain so that's why I ask.

There are lots of old rifles still in use that have 1-12 twist rates that need a 55gr load.  Plenty of LEO agencies still use the old M16A1.  It also allows them to be used in varmit guns that would normally use 30-40gr ammo letting the gun do double duty.
55gr is a nice middle weight that can be used in just about any rifle from 1-12 to 1-7.  It is a safe choice for production.

There may be several reasons to choose the heavier load depending on your application:

1.  More Fragments:  If you are using an OTM load or non-bonded sp, or a bonded sp that still loses some weight(like fusion/gd), the heavier projectile has more mass which means more fragments.  It also tends to mean the final chunk will be larger and heavier giving it a better chance for deeper penetration.  Compare gel tests a 55gr 223 to a 77gr 223 to a 115gr 6.8.

2.  Higher BC: Heavier means longer, all else being equal.  The higher BC may keep the bullet in its expansion/fragmentation zone longer.  It may also shoot flatter with less wind drift. (This is dependent on the relative muzzle velocity of the two bullets compared to their relative BCs.)

3.  More Penetration:  The heavier bullet has a higher sectional density which will give it better penetration.

4.  Wider Mushroom:  The heavier round MAY give you wider mushroom or it may not.  This does not seem to occur in Barnes TSX.  They seem to expand to the same diameter reguardless of weight.  In a Doc Roberts gel test, he notes that after hitting autoglass, a 55gr  TBBC expanded to 0.33 while the 62gr TBBC expanded to 0.40.  On the other hand, ATKs website has the following:
GoldDots   55gr     64gr
Bare gel:   .488     .347
HeavyClo: .591     .69
Steel:         .441    .325
Wallboard  .505    .468
Plywood:   .527    .481
Autoglass: .344    not listed
This would need a large sample size to confirm or disconfirm.

Thanks for the info. Looks like there are more benefits with a heavier weight.

Winchester Ranger makes some 55gr SP that are fancy and say "LE ONLY"... no idea how they compare to other brands, the projectile looks identical to the standard hornady 55gr SPs I reload.

I have an ArmaLite M15 and it is a 1:9 twist and I tried quite a few different weight of bullets from 55gr XM193, 62gr MK318, 64gr Speer Gold Dot Jacket SP and if fires all of these rounds just fine. I also bought some Black Hills Rem .223 both 68gr heavy match hollow point and 69gr sierra match king rounds and they work fine as well.

I keep a few 20 rounds mags loaded with the Speer Gold Dot .223, 64gr JSP for HD.

Most departments are using surplus M16-A1's that were replaced by the state guard units and placed into the 1033 program that the State police agency's administer. They will transfer the rifles to the local LE agency's for a $25 admin fee (at least that is what the cost is here in VA). So based on the rifle, the FBI tests and what I've seen for real world performance, stay with the Federal LE223T1.

Go the bottom of the link and look at the test data, it should reaffirm to you that this is good ammunition.

ETA: Stay with your department regs, don't give them an excuse to hang you out to dry during an IA shoot investigation. They will go over everything and as long as everything was done to SOP or GO you will be survive and keep your job. As much as I would like to go to 62 grain Bonded Federal LE223T3, the department I retired from mandated the 55 grain LE223T1 and bumped us down from the 180 grain Federal P40HST1 to the P40HST3 165 grain for the Glock 22's. Do your Job and the bullet will do its. Remain calm and steady, be safe brother.

http://le.atk.com/ammunition/federal/rifle/compare.aspx?compare=678

This should be part of every post.

Gold Dot IS bonded.

Their 64gr offering if the best thing going right now, IMO.