User Panel
Originally Posted By rob99rt:
Regarding the 245's, see my post back on page 78 regarding what I found with max OAL of a few different bullets (Barnes blue and black tips, 220 grain SMKs, Missouri 245's). I tried using two different ways of measuring the max OAL, and both methods were pretty close except for the 245's... those gave two quite different measurements based upon the method used. Both were shorter than the OAL I was using for my loads, though, and I have taken a better look at rounds I chambered since then and found very light rifling marks. So, I do need to shorten them up a bit. It does make a little better sense now why I get better groups from the Barnes 110 black tips vs the Barnes 110 blue tips... The bullet profile of the blue tips puts them WAY off of the lands (.261"), so that probably contributes to them being somewhat all over the place while the black tips shoot nice groups with the same powder load. Thanks for finding that info on the 245's. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By rob99rt:
Originally Posted By drfroglegs:
Well, I'll answer my own question. I found a few people who report the OAL of the MBC lead 245gr as 2.050" on the 300blk forum. I think that will fix my problem. http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=80368&start=60 Regarding the 245's, see my post back on page 78 regarding what I found with max OAL of a few different bullets (Barnes blue and black tips, 220 grain SMKs, Missouri 245's). I tried using two different ways of measuring the max OAL, and both methods were pretty close except for the 245's... those gave two quite different measurements based upon the method used. Both were shorter than the OAL I was using for my loads, though, and I have taken a better look at rounds I chambered since then and found very light rifling marks. So, I do need to shorten them up a bit. It does make a little better sense now why I get better groups from the Barnes 110 black tips vs the Barnes 110 blue tips... The bullet profile of the blue tips puts them WAY off of the lands (.261"), so that probably contributes to them being somewhat all over the place while the black tips shoot nice groups with the same powder load. Thanks for finding that info on the 245's. I have the Hornady OAL Guage, but don't have the 300blk brass to fit it. Ill try to make one or buy one in the near future and actually measure some of these bullets. That's the sure fire way to make sure you're not in the lands. Usually it's not a problem with mag fed ammo, but it looks like with the 300 blk a round large enough to hit the lands is sufficiently short enough to fit in the mag? |
|
NRA Life Member
Second Amendment Foundation Member |
Yes, I do know what caused my 8 kids. Don't you?
WV, USA
|
Originally Posted By drfroglegs:
I have the Hornady OAL Guage, but don't have the 300blk brass to fit it. Ill try to make one or buy one in the near future and actually measure some of these bullets. That's the sure fire way to make sure you're not in the lands. Usually it's not a problem with mag fed ammo, but it looks like with the 300 blk a round large enough to hit the lands is sufficiently short enough to fit in the mag? View Quote I think it all depends on the bullet profile. The missouri 245s are pretty "chunky" toward the front of the bullet vs the long, pointy 110 grain tac-tsx bullets. The same oal (2.25", for example) of each would put the tac-tsx's point past where the rifling starts, but the bullet wouldn't be touching the rifling at all. At 2.25", the missouri 245 would have been crammed into the rifling at least 1/10". Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
Luke 22:36 - And Jesus said to them, "But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one.
|
I finished assembling my test loads with Sierra's 110gr Varminter bullets, and set up to start my test loads with my Hornady 150gr FMJs using Lil' Gun. Hodgdon's data calls for a COAL of 2.235", which is essentially magazine length. The 0.250" ring on these bullets with Hodgdon's COAL is ahead of the magazine rib.
I'm inclined to think that a better COAL for this bullet would be closer to 2.10", but I'm not comfortable with changing the length without hearing from others who've done a similar load with Lil' Gun. |
|
"--you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."
Heinlein NRA Life Member Glock Certified Armorer Certified AR15 Armorer Certified M1911 Armorer |
I just saw that as of 2-21 blackoutbrass.com no longer offers projectiles. I ordered 1000 203gr bullets from blackoutbrass.com last week and received them 2-20. Looks like I got them just in time. They look good but I havn't had a chance to shoot them yet. Looks like I will have to find another supplier for cheap bullets..
|
|
|
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
|
Originally Posted By GHPorter: I finished assembling my test loads with Sierra's 110gr Varminter bullets, and set up to start my test loads with my Hornady 150gr FMJs using Lil' Gun. Hodgdon's data calls for a COAL of 2.235", which is essentially magazine length. The 0.250" ring on these bullets with Hodgdon's COAL is ahead of the magazine rib. I'm inclined to think that a better COAL for this bullet would be closer to 2.10", but I'm not comfortable with changing the length without hearing from others who've done a similar load with Lil' Gun. View Quote I load pulled 147 gr FMJ's and Hornaday's 150 gr Spitzer #3031 with Lil'Gun. RP 223 formed cases. I found 15.5 grs of Lil'Gun to work well with the FMJ's and 15.0 grs with the Spitzer. Bullet .250 ogive/mag bump length is 2.10. It works well for me. Remember OAL is not as critical with a bottle neck case, pressure wise. So as long a you begin at the start load and work up, don't be 'scared with OAL. Also remember that OAL in data is not always for use in an AR-15, so the OAL will be long in the data. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Originally Posted By dryflash3:
I load pulled 147 gr FMJ's and Hornaday's 150 gr Spitzer #3031 with Lil'Gun. RP 223 formed cases. I found 15.5 grs of Lil'Gun to work well with the FMJ's and 15.0 grs with the Spitzer. Bullet .250 ogive/mag bump length is 2.10. It works well for me. Remember OAL is not as critical with a bottle neck case, pressure wise. So as long a you begin at the start load and work up, don't be 'scared with OAL. Also remember that OAL in data is not always for use in an AR-15, so the OAL will be long in the data. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Originally Posted By GHPorter:
I finished assembling my test loads with Sierra's 110gr Varminter bullets, and set up to start my test loads with my Hornady 150gr FMJs using Lil' Gun. Hodgdon's data calls for a COAL of 2.235", which is essentially magazine length. The 0.250" ring on these bullets with Hodgdon's COAL is ahead of the magazine rib. I'm inclined to think that a better COAL for this bullet would be closer to 2.10", but I'm not comfortable with changing the length without hearing from others who've done a similar load with Lil' Gun. I load pulled 147 gr FMJ's and Hornaday's 150 gr Spitzer #3031 with Lil'Gun. RP 223 formed cases. I found 15.5 grs of Lil'Gun to work well with the FMJ's and 15.0 grs with the Spitzer. Bullet .250 ogive/mag bump length is 2.10. It works well for me. Remember OAL is not as critical with a bottle neck case, pressure wise. So as long a you begin at the start load and work up, don't be 'scared with OAL. Also remember that OAL in data is not always for use in an AR-15, so the OAL will be long in the data. Thanks, that helps a lot. I'll check the .250 length and adjust as needed. Hodgdon's Lil' Gun data goes from 13.9 - 15.2 with 150gr bullets. That narrow range had me spooked. |
|
"--you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."
Heinlein NRA Life Member Glock Certified Armorer Certified AR15 Armorer Certified M1911 Armorer |
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
|
I was able to go higher but got the best accuracy where noted.
Just start at 14.0 and work up from there. Lil'Gun measures well, I throw all of my charges. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Originally Posted By RocketmanOU:
Good call. Ran a quick transient heat analysis, within about 5 seconds, none of the case is above 450° F, and it doesn't propagate very far down the wall at all. I stand corrected 450° is yellow in this simulation result. Total time is 20 seconds: http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/RocketmanOU/ezgif-46446844_zpspa2ushen.gif View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By RocketmanOU:
Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Originally Posted By Stiles1410:
I will get some tempilaq Dryflash do you suggest getting some lower temp tempilaq for the case head area? Or if annealed correctly would the case head area ever reach a dangerous "Annealing" temperature? Dumping cases in water is a waste of time and causes the unneeded extra step of drying. It's bad enough waiting the 5 minutes for them to cool off. Good call. Ran a quick transient heat analysis, within about 5 seconds, none of the case is above 450° F, and it doesn't propagate very far down the wall at all. I stand corrected 450° is yellow in this simulation result. Total time is 20 seconds: http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/RocketmanOU/ezgif-46446844_zpspa2ushen.gif What program is that? Do you mind if I "borrow" your analysis? That's very informative, I would like to distribute to everyone! Also, Dryflash should put this in his case annealing thread (if you don't mind). There was a discussion there about whether dropping into water was necessary and I've been arguing that it's not just based on the thermal conductivity of water vs. air and copper. I think this illustrates what is happening pretty well! Is it possible to do the analysis where you add water (or air) when you start the analysis (I'm assuming it's vacuum as you have it now). |
|
NRA Life Member
Second Amendment Foundation Member |
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
|
Anyone can post in that thread, http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/439440_Low_budget_Annealing.html
I have no interest in that animation, but post it if you want. (not being sarcastic) |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Any luck with the MBC 245gr bullets at 2.050" COAL?
I ran into the same issue with some that I powder coated, I can get them to fit into my Sheridan gauge at 2.050" but am a little skeptical at that short of an COAL with so many others reporting using 2.120" or more |
|
|
Originally Posted By griff383:
Any luck with the MBC 245gr bullets at 2.050" COAL? I ran into the same issue with some that I powder coated, I can get them to fit into my Sheridan gauge at 2.050" but am a little skeptical at that short of an COAL with so many others reporting using 2.120" or more View Quote I'm trying to make a "modified case" for my Hornady OAL gauge so I can actually measure what the maximum OAL is for my setup. The 2.050" did fit into my Sheridan gauge, so that's what I made my 50 test rounds (haven't shot them yet, it's 5 degrees outside and we still have >5" of snow on the ground). I hope I can make the case today/tonight, if so I will post up what I find. There might be some variances because the bullets I have are polymer coated (probably not very even) while yours will be much more even. |
|
NRA Life Member
Second Amendment Foundation Member |
Nickname: Doc. Came with wild hair and a DeLorean
OH, USA
|
Originally Posted By drfroglegs:
What program is that? Do you mind if I "borrow" your analysis? That's very informative, I would like to distribute to everyone! Also, Dryflash should put this in his case annealing thread (if you don't mind). There was a discussion there about whether dropping into water was necessary and I've been arguing that it's not just based on the thermal conductivity of water vs. air and copper. I think this illustrates what is happening pretty well! Is it possible to do the analysis where you add water (or air) when you start the analysis (I'm assuming it's vacuum as you have it now). View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By drfroglegs:
Originally Posted By RocketmanOU:
Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Originally Posted By Stiles1410:
I will get some tempilaq Dryflash do you suggest getting some lower temp tempilaq for the case head area? Or if annealed correctly would the case head area ever reach a dangerous "Annealing" temperature? Dumping cases in water is a waste of time and causes the unneeded extra step of drying. It's bad enough waiting the 5 minutes for them to cool off. Good call. Ran a quick transient heat analysis, within about 5 seconds, none of the case is above 450° F, and it doesn't propagate very far down the wall at all. I stand corrected 450° is yellow in this simulation result. Total time is 20 seconds: http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/RocketmanOU/ezgif-46446844_zpspa2ushen.gif What program is that? Do you mind if I "borrow" your analysis? That's very informative, I would like to distribute to everyone! Also, Dryflash should put this in his case annealing thread (if you don't mind). There was a discussion there about whether dropping into water was necessary and I've been arguing that it's not just based on the thermal conductivity of water vs. air and copper. I think this illustrates what is happening pretty well! Is it possible to do the analysis where you add water (or air) when you start the analysis (I'm assuming it's vacuum as you have it now). It's Autodesk Simulation Mechanical. You're more than welcome to distribute it (but please host it yourself if you do). Assumes a perfect cutoff at the top of the socket in initial temperature, where the case mouth is at 775° F and the case body is room temp with a more-or-less instantaneous gradient between. It assumes a vacuum (i.e.: no heat is transferred into or out of the case - the mass-weighted average case temperature is constant), which is obviously the worst case scenario. I could add water or air, but all it would do is prove the point further - there's no sense in dumping the cases in water. The only mechanism by which you could overheat the body of the case would be contact with another case's shoulder as that case is dumped into the pile, but even then, the case temperature is completely below 450° within a second or so of the removal of the heat source. |
"We're all new here, kid. The old ones are either dead or in the hospital. What the hell did you expect, a two week pass to Paris? Get in line and do what you're told, or you'll be dead before sunup."
|
Originally Posted By drfroglegs:
I'm trying to make a "modified case" for my Hornady OAL gauge so I can actually measure what the maximum OAL is for my setup. The 2.050" did fit into my Sheridan gauge, so that's what I made my 50 test rounds (haven't shot them yet, it's 5 degrees outside and we still have >5" of snow on the ground). I hope I can make the case today/tonight, if so I will post up what I find. There might be some variances because the bullets I have are polymer coated (probably not very even) while yours will be much more even. View Quote That would be great, thanks for your efforts. My biggest concern for that short of an OAL is pressure but shooting subs it shouldnt be a big deal provided I reduce the loads a little more than usual |
|
|
Nickname: Doc. Came with wild hair and a DeLorean
OH, USA
|
Originally Posted By griff383:
That would be great, thanks for your efforts. My biggest concern for that short of an OAL is pressure but shooting subs it shouldnt be a big deal provided I reduce the loads a little more than usual View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By griff383:
Originally Posted By drfroglegs:
I'm trying to make a "modified case" for my Hornady OAL gauge so I can actually measure what the maximum OAL is for my setup. The 2.050" did fit into my Sheridan gauge, so that's what I made my 50 test rounds (haven't shot them yet, it's 5 degrees outside and we still have >5" of snow on the ground). I hope I can make the case today/tonight, if so I will post up what I find. There might be some variances because the bullets I have are polymer coated (probably not very even) while yours will be much more even. That would be great, thanks for your efforts. My biggest concern for that short of an OAL is pressure but shooting subs it shouldnt be a big deal provided I reduce the loads a little more than usual You're not likely to have pressure issues with subs, so long as you're not jamming them into the lands. Subs generally have pressures down around 45 ACP pressures IIRC. For reference, supers have about 3 times that pressure. |
"We're all new here, kid. The old ones are either dead or in the hospital. What the hell did you expect, a two week pass to Paris? Get in line and do what you're told, or you'll be dead before sunup."
|
I did a test load this weekend with the Barnes 130 grain TTSX.
I went 2.140 OACL with 17.3 grains of IMR 4227. My velocity at the muzzle measured with a Chronospeed V3 1942 FPS average. I will do some more load this weekend to creep up to 17.8 grains to see velocity and accuracy. My goal is to get close to 2100-2200 FPS with good accuracy. Please use this advice cautiously and have fun. |
|
|
Just about set to get some test loads set up for my 300 blackout. I've been through most of this thread several times, the FAQ, the read first thread, and explored Al Gore's internet even more, but still have some questions.
Rifle set up: 8.5" 1:8 300 BO barrel, 6" Form 1 silencer, Carbine buffer and standard carbine spring. I do not have an adjustable gas block. Pistol length gas system. Subsonic Load (I do not have a chronograph and understand this is going to be highly prohibitive) Bullet: 220 grain Nosler Custom Competition (need to determine COAL, but based on Nosler Match ammo, was going to go at 2.200" and see where that puts the 0.25" mark on the bullet relative to the rib in a pmag. Powder: IMR 4198 powder. I was going to start at 11.5 gn, and check function, then back off in 0.2 gn increments until I didn't get function, But I don't know how far I can back off. Ideally, I would like the rifle to function (bolt lock back on final round) with silencer on and off. My estimation is that 4198 may not be the best, but I have a pound of it that I can use. Primer: I was planning to use CCI 400 primers. My concern is that this load data from IMR is for a 16" rifle and small magnum rifle primers (remington 7 1/2). 1. Will a standard primer/shorter barrel result in significantly less velocity? 2. Should I not worry about trying to develop a subsonic load until I get access to a chronograph? 3. Is the 11.5gn a good start, or should that be adjusted due to variances between my set up and the tested set up? Nosler didn't have load data Supersonic load Bullet: 110 gn Nosler Varmegeddon Powder: H110 Hogdon has load data for a 110 gn vmax with a load range from 18.8-20.0 gns and that is with a small magnum rifle primer. That is a tight spread (to me). Nolser's load data suggests 17.0 gn-19.0 gns of H110 for the 110gn varmegeddon with a winchester small rifle primer and a COAL of 2.025. of the two, I plan to work from the Nosler data (seems obvious). Hornady states that best accuracy occurred at 17.0 gn. but I don't know if they were using a bolt gun, or single shot, or AR and if AR, if the AR cycled and locked open. 4. Would someone mind recommending a good ladder? I read that H110 builds pressure quickly, so am hesitant to push towards the max. For all cases, I will be forming my own from 5.56/.223 cases. I will be annealing them using tempilaq. Light Lee FCD. Lee dies. Powder will be metered on a RCBS chargemaster. This rifle is just coming to completion and will be open sights to begin with. 5. Is there any advantage to running factory super loads to get it onto target or should I just prepare 15 rounds of the load at the starting weight of 17.0 gn? |
|
|
There are a number of chronograph options that are far from cost prohibitive. The "gold standard" is the Oehler 35P, costs $595 complete, but that's not the only choice. Start looking at Caldwell chronographs, Shooting Chrony models, Competition Electronics and others. You can get a Shooting Chrony F1 for about $110, and for this kind of purpose, it's more than adequate.
|
|
"--you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."
Heinlein NRA Life Member Glock Certified Armorer Certified AR15 Armorer Certified M1911 Armorer |
|
|
|
Originally Posted By griff383:
This might help Link to data http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b611/sean48238/Screenshot2_zpsa867e598.png View Quote That is helpful. looks like I should try and find some Lil gun or AA #9. I think I know where I can get some lil gun though. |
|
|
Fear is the foundation of most governments.
TN, USA
|
I was prepping some Hornady 1X fired brass this evening and for some reason this batch had the tightest primer pockets I have ever encountered. Using an RCBS hand primer I was literally smashing the primers trying to get them in the pocket. I tried using an RCBS crimp remover and ten chamfering the cut. None of that worked, and I was just about to pitch the brass when I remembered the Lyman prep tool kit I had bought when I first started reloading. One of the tools is a primer pocket reamer which I chucked in a drill and used on the brass. Worked like a charm. The primers sat smoothly and I had no more issues. Hopefully it works just as well on the four-corner crimp that Lake City is using.
|
how many times a week do you married guys get to clap them cheeks? noymisayn?
-blackrage- |
Originally Posted By OIF_Vet08-09:
I was prepping some Hornady 1X fired brass this evening and for some reason this batch had the tightest primer pockets I have ever encountered. Using an RCBS hand primer I was literally smashing the primers trying to get them in the pocket. I tried using an RCBS crimp remover and ten chamfering the cut. None of that worked, and I was just about to pitch the brass when I remembered the Lyman prep tool kit I had bought when I first started reloading. One of the tools is a primer pocket reamer which I chucked in a drill and used on the brass. Worked like a charm. The primers sat smoothly and I had no more issues. Hopefully it works just as well on the four-corner crimp that Lake City is using. View Quote Had the same problem with fired Hornady brass. I was not at home so not all my equipment was available. Used a sharp knife to bevel the primer hole. Was slow but worked OK. |
|
|
Originally Posted By garyd:
A few have claimed to get the 150s to cycle the action on an AR15 subsoncially. I have not been able to repeat their claims. I frankly cannot see it working, but that is just me. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By garyd:
Originally Posted By FrostedFlakes:
I didnt read all the pages but searched a bit. Crimp or no crimp on reloading 300 blackout subsonic? Hornady 150gr fmj bt/wc 30 cal. Are they able to be made for subsonic because I got my hands on 700 of them? Will be shooting out of 9 inch AR with aac 762snd6 A few have claimed to get the 150s to cycle the action on an AR15 subsoncially. I have not been able to repeat their claims. I frankly cannot see it working, but that is just me. I have done it. When I get home, I'll post my load. It doesn't always hold the bolt open on the last shot, but it does cycle. |
|
|
Originally Posted By argolfer:
I have done it. When I get home, I'll post my load. It doesn't always hold the bolt open on the last shot, but it does cycle. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By argolfer:
Originally Posted By garyd:
Originally Posted By FrostedFlakes:
I didnt read all the pages but searched a bit. Crimp or no crimp on reloading 300 blackout subsonic? Hornady 150gr fmj bt/wc 30 cal. Are they able to be made for subsonic because I got my hands on 700 of them? Will be shooting out of 9 inch AR with aac 762snd6 A few have claimed to get the 150s to cycle the action on an AR15 subsoncially. I have not been able to repeat their claims. I frankly cannot see it working, but that is just me. I have done it. When I get home, I'll post my load. It doesn't always hold the bolt open on the last shot, but it does cycle. I think it also matters what size your gas port is. I know when I was trying to get Lil'gun subs to run I couldn't get to cycle reliably. a friend tried a couple of extra's I had and worked fine for him. he drilled the gas port out larger on his gun and I don't want to mess with that (I don't want to drill into a noveske barrel). |
|
|
Apologies if this is the wrong place to post this <removed>
Should have posted this in the tacked thread at the top of the page. Here is where to buy dryflash3 |
|
|
Originally Posted By ws-6:
I think it also matters what size your gas port is. I know when I was trying to get Lil'gun subs to run I couldn't get to cycle reliably. a friend tried a couple of extra's I had and worked fine for him. he drilled the gas port out larger on his gun and I don't want to mess with that (I don't want to drill into a noveske barrel). View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By ws-6:
Originally Posted By argolfer:
Originally Posted By garyd:
Originally Posted By FrostedFlakes:
I didnt read all the pages but searched a bit. Crimp or no crimp on reloading 300 blackout subsonic? Hornady 150gr fmj bt/wc 30 cal. Are they able to be made for subsonic because I got my hands on 700 of them? Will be shooting out of 9 inch AR with aac 762snd6 A few have claimed to get the 150s to cycle the action on an AR15 subsoncially. I have not been able to repeat their claims. I frankly cannot see it working, but that is just me. I have done it. When I get home, I'll post my load. It doesn't always hold the bolt open on the last shot, but it does cycle. I think it also matters what size your gas port is. I know when I was trying to get Lil'gun subs to run I couldn't get to cycle reliably. a friend tried a couple of extra's I had and worked fine for him. he drilled the gas port out larger on his gun and I don't want to mess with that (I don't want to drill into a noveske barrel). I apologize, but mine will only cycle with a suppressor. It will not hold the bolt back on the last shot. I am using an 8.2" Noveske barrel with an SDN-6 suppressor. 150gr Hornady FMJ 8.1gr Lil Gun 2.067 COL I have not shot them through a chrnony but they are definitely subsonic |
|
|
Originally Posted By ironhead7544:
Had the same problem with fired Hornady brass. I was not at home so not all my equipment was available. Used a sharp knife to bevel the primer hole. Was slow but worked OK. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By ironhead7544:
Originally Posted By OIF_Vet08-09:
I was prepping some Hornady 1X fired brass this evening and for some reason this batch had the tightest primer pockets I have ever encountered. Using an RCBS hand primer I was literally smashing the primers trying to get them in the pocket. I tried using an RCBS crimp remover and ten chamfering the cut. None of that worked, and I was just about to pitch the brass when I remembered the Lyman prep tool kit I had bought when I first started reloading. One of the tools is a primer pocket reamer which I chucked in a drill and used on the brass. Worked like a charm. The primers sat smoothly and I had no more issues. Hopefully it works just as well on the four-corner crimp that Lake City is using. Had the same problem with fired Hornady brass. I was not at home so not all my equipment was available. Used a sharp knife to bevel the primer hole. Was slow but worked OK. I use RCBS primer pocket swager tool-2 to reform mil crimp brass, should solve your issue |
|
|
Description: H&R 300 Blackout
Notes : Hornady XTP 90gr, TB 4.0gr, Federal Match Primer, COAL 1.670, mixed .223 brass Distance to Chrono(FT): 1.00 Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000 Bullet Weight(gr): 90.00 Temp: 52 °F BP: 30.28 inHg Shots: # FPS / FT-LBS 21 871 / 152 20 922 / 170 19 909 / 165 18 928 / 172 17 ERROR 3 16 877 / 154 15 896 / 160 14 919 / 169 13 920 / 169 12 ERROR 2 11 912 / 166 10 899 / 162 9 918 / 168 8 855 / 146 7 919 / 169 6 ERROR 3 5 919 / 169 4 931 / 173 3 926 / 171 2 961 / 185 1 957 / 183 Average: 913.3 FPS SD: 26.7 FPS Min: 855 FPS Max: 961 FPS Spread: 106 FPS Shot/sec: 0.0 True MV: 913 FPS Group Size (in): 0.25 |
|
|
GH Porter,
Thanks for the info. I was looking at the prochrono. They are available for 100.00 shipped from Amazon (prime membership). Apparently very similar to the F1. I really like the sounds of the Caldwell tough. Midway has a kit for 135 that sounds pretty nice. Too bad I am not an apple users though. Caldwell I initially got into reloading thinking it would save money. That has been disppelled. But it is an interesting endeavor and easier to stay shooting during tough times. |
|
|
Originally Posted By Shadowden:
GH Porter, Thanks for the info. I was looking at the prochrono. They are available for 100.00 shipped from Amazon (prime membership). Apparently very similar to the F1. I really like the sounds of the Caldwell tough. Midway has a kit for 135 that sounds pretty nice. Too bad I am not an apple users though. Caldwell I initially got into reloading thinking it would save money. That has been disppelled. But it is an interesting endeavor and easier to stay shooting during tough times. View Quote The Caldwell also works with Android operating system. The free app for it is available on Google Play. |
|
|
Originally Posted By azlester:
The Caldwell also works with Android operating system. The free app for it is available on Google Play. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By azlester:
Originally Posted By Shadowden:
GH Porter, Thanks for the info. I was looking at the prochrono. They are available for 100.00 shipped from Amazon (prime membership). Apparently very similar to the F1. I really like the sounds of the Caldwell tough. Midway has a kit for 135 that sounds pretty nice. Too bad I am not an apple users though. Caldwell I initially got into reloading thinking it would save money. That has been disppelled. But it is an interesting endeavor and easier to stay shooting during tough times. The Caldwell also works with Android operating system. The free app for it is available on Google Play. Whatever the platform, it must have a microphone input. I have a first gen Nexus 7, and it's no joy. Works great on my iPhone. |
|
NRA Patron Member
dfwlabrescue.org Все либералы киски |
Originally Posted By Shadowden:
Just about set to get some test loads set up for my 300 blackout. I've been through most of this thread several times, the FAQ, the read first thread, and explored Al Gore's internet even more, but still have some questions. Rifle set up: 8.5" 1:8 300 BO barrel, 6" Form 1 silencer, Carbine buffer and standard carbine spring. I do not have an adjustable gas block. Pistol length gas system. Subsonic Load (I do not have a chronograph and understand this is going to be highly prohibitive) Bullet: 220 grain Nosler Custom Competition (need to determine COAL, but based on Nosler Match ammo, was going to go at 2.200" and see where that puts the 0.25" mark on the bullet relative to the rib in a pmag. Powder: IMR 4198 powder. I was going to start at 11.5 gn, and check function, then back off in 0.2 gn increments until I didn't get function, But I don't know how far I can back off. Ideally, I would like the rifle to function (bolt lock back on final round) with silencer on and off. My estimation is that 4198 may not be the best, but I have a pound of it that I can use. Primer: I was planning to use CCI 400 primers. My concern is that this load data from IMR is for a 16" rifle and small magnum rifle primers (remington 7 1/2). 1. Will a standard primer/shorter barrel result in significantly less velocity? 2. Should I not worry about trying to develop a subsonic load until I get access to a chronograph? 3. Is the 11.5gn a good start, or should that be adjusted due to variances between my set up and the tested set up? Nosler didn't have load data Supersonic load Bullet: 110 gn Nosler Varmegeddon Powder: H110 Hogdon has load data for a 110 gn vmax with a load range from 18.8-20.0 gns and that is with a small magnum rifle primer. That is a tight spread (to me). Nolser's load data suggests 17.0 gn-19.0 gns of H110 for the 110gn varmegeddon with a winchester small rifle primer and a COAL of 2.025. of the two, I plan to work from the Nosler data (seems obvious). Hornady states that best accuracy occurred at 17.0 gn. but I don't know if they were using a bolt gun, or single shot, or AR and if AR, if the AR cycled and locked open. 4. Would someone mind recommending a good ladder? I read that H110 builds pressure quickly, so am hesitant to push towards the max. For all cases, I will be forming my own from 5.56/.223 cases. I will be annealing them using tempilaq. Light Lee FCD. Lee dies. Powder will be metered on a RCBS chargemaster. This rifle is just coming to completion and will be open sights to begin with. 5. Is there any advantage to running factory super loads to get it onto target or should I just prepare 15 rounds of the load at the starting weight of 17.0 gn? View Quote I annealed some cases and sized them. Figured it would be a good time to see what the rounds look like and determine my COAL for the 110gn Nosler varmegeddons and 220gn Nosler custom competitions. At this point I'm beginning to question my sanity or at least my intelligence. I followed the advice to mark each of the bullets where the diameter is 0.25". I then seated the bullets to the COAL mentioned above in my previous post. I loaded the dummy cartridge into a magazine to see where my marked 0.25" diameter fell relative to the pmag rib. Neither were very close. So I worked the seating stem in a half turn at a time until the mark was just at or behind the ridge of the pmag. For the 110gn varmeggeddon, the COAL ended up at 1.979". I didn't even measure the 220gn custom competition because the case mouth was exposed due to the bullet being seated so deep. To say I'm disappointed is an understatement as I had high hopes for running these bullets. If anyone has run either of these bullets successfully in an ar15 I would love some direction on your COAL. Here are some measurements from the 220 gn Nosler Custom Competition: Total length: 1.518" Distance from tip to 0.25" diameter mark: 0.336" Distance from 0.25 Mark to end of bullet: 1.182" How much different are these from a 220 gn SMK? I wouldn't have figure much at all. ETA: Reading on another forum, it seems like a lot of guys are running 220 gn SMK at about a 2.20 COAL with no feed, extraction of bolt lock back problems. If someone has similar dimensions as I provided for the Nosler CC, I would appreciate it. I've googled, but no luck yet. ETA2: Just got off the phone with Nosler. They are suggesting a COAL of 2.025" for the 110gn and 2.20 for the 220gn. They reported no cycling issues. Pretty excited to get these loaded. |
|
|
Does anyone have a sub-sonic load for 190gr. SMK using W296?
Currently picking up components ahead of a purchase but can't find 220SMK and only one pound of 1680. Thanks in advance. ETA: Corrected 168 to 1680. |
|
|
Nickname: Doc. Came with wild hair and a DeLorean
OH, USA
|
Originally Posted By WhitewaterRafter:
Does anyone have a sub-sonic load for 190gr. SMK using W296? Currently picking up components ahead of a purchase but can't find 220SMK and only one pound of 168. Thanks in advance. View Quote Are you looking to cycle an AR? W296/H110 isn't the best choice for subs in the first place, and in an AR, the pressure curve isn't good for reliable function. IMR 4198 and 4227 are more widely available, and will function a pistol length gas port with a suppressor in subs. |
"We're all new here, kid. The old ones are either dead or in the hospital. What the hell did you expect, a two week pass to Paris? Get in line and do what you're told, or you'll be dead before sunup."
|
Before I could get AA1680, I used W296 for 220 SMKs and 208 Amax rounds and they cycled my pistol length gas SBR without a suppressor. Will a 190 gr at subsonic velocities build enough pressure to cycle the action, I don't know. Give it a shot, so to speak, and see.
And report back! |
|
NRA Patron Member
dfwlabrescue.org Все либералы киски |
Originally Posted By RocketmanOU:
Are you looking to cycle an AR? W296/H110 isn't the best choice for subs in the first place, and in an AR, the pressure curve isn't good for reliable function. IMR 4198 and 4227 are more widely available, and will function a pistol length gas port with a suppressor in subs. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By RocketmanOU:
Originally Posted By WhitewaterRafter:
Does anyone have a sub-sonic load for 190gr. SMK using W296? Currently picking up components ahead of a purchase but can't find 220SMK and only one pound of 168. Thanks in advance. Are you looking to cycle an AR? W296/H110 isn't the best choice for subs in the first place, and in an AR, the pressure curve isn't good for reliable function. IMR 4198 and 4227 are more widely available, and will function a pistol length gas port with a suppressor in subs. I am getting ready to pop my reloading cherry on some subsonic 190gr Nosler HPBT's. I have some 296 but I will be using 4198. Rifle is suppressed 10.5 AR (Palmetto barrel and Phantom can). No chrono yet but will hopefully score one before I get a chance to try out my test loads. How many rounds do you guys load for testing? I planned on shooting unsuppressed to check for keyholing and then suppressed to avoid the possibility of baffle strikes. I assume this is a pretty good practice? |
|
|
Nickname: Doc. Came with wild hair and a DeLorean
OH, USA
|
Originally Posted By 9mmprn:
I am getting ready to pop my reloading cherry on some subsonic 190gr Nosler HPBT's. I have some 296 but I will be using 4198. Rifle is suppressed 10.5 AR (Palmetto barrel and Phantom can). No chrono yet but will hopefully score one before I get a chance to try out my test loads. How many rounds do you guys load for testing? I planned on shooting unsuppressed to check for keyholing and then suppressed to avoid the possibility of baffle strikes. I assume this is a pretty good practice? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By 9mmprn:
Originally Posted By RocketmanOU:
Originally Posted By WhitewaterRafter:
Does anyone have a sub-sonic load for 190gr. SMK using W296? Currently picking up components ahead of a purchase but can't find 220SMK and only one pound of 168. Thanks in advance. Are you looking to cycle an AR? W296/H110 isn't the best choice for subs in the first place, and in an AR, the pressure curve isn't good for reliable function. IMR 4198 and 4227 are more widely available, and will function a pistol length gas port with a suppressor in subs. I am getting ready to pop my reloading cherry on some subsonic 190gr Nosler HPBT's. I have some 296 but I will be using 4198. Rifle is suppressed 10.5 AR (Palmetto barrel and Phantom can). No chrono yet but will hopefully score one before I get a chance to try out my test loads. How many rounds do you guys load for testing? I planned on shooting unsuppressed to check for keyholing and then suppressed to avoid the possibility of baffle strikes. I assume this is a pretty good practice? Yep, that's a good plan. I usually do 5 of a given load to get an average and SD, and once I find one that has an average 3 standard deviations below 1100 fps that still cycles the bolt all 5 shots, I load up 100 of them and do mag function checks. I use USGI mags with my 300 blk. |
"We're all new here, kid. The old ones are either dead or in the hospital. What the hell did you expect, a two week pass to Paris? Get in line and do what you're told, or you'll be dead before sunup."
|
Quick question, when trimming 5.56 cases to convert to 300BLK, does everyone just trim at the shoulder or is there a recommended length. I know that there is a recommended length after forming(1.358) I just don't want to have to remove too much material with my trimmer when I can be doing it with my saw. Is this something I should even be worrying about?
Thanks in Advance, Omega |
|
|
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
|
Yes trim at the shoulder.
Make a jig and then adjust it so you just have a little to trim off the end of the case after forming the shoulder. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
"At the shoulder" takes off enough of the case that you won't have to spend way too long trimming the finished case. Keep in mind that there is a saw kerf involved in that cut, so using that landmark leaves the case a little shorter than the height of the shoulder.. I use Von Zep's 300 Blackout cutting jig on a Harbor Freight 2" chop saw, and it's adjustable for more or less cut, but going by his instructions for adjusting the jig, it winds up just about "at the shoulder" anyway.
|
|
"--you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."
Heinlein NRA Life Member Glock Certified Armorer Certified AR15 Armorer Certified M1911 Armorer |
Noob reloader here. Maybe someone can set me straight. I just received 1000 fully processed 300 blackout brass from East Coast Arsenal for reloading my first ever rounds. Case length varies between 1.360 and 1.354. Will I notice any discernible difference in accuracy between the rounds? Should I trim anything over 1.358? I really thought the brass would be more consistent in length than it is or at least hoped it would all be 1.360 give or take a .001. Am I being incorrect or to anal in my measurements/expectations? I did just process about 500.223 rounds and managed to trim to a consistent 1.750.
|
|
|
Originally Posted By 9mmprn:
Noob reloader here. Maybe someone can set me straight. I just received 1000 fully processed 300 blackout brass from East Coast Arsenal for reloading my first ever rounds. Case length varies between 1.360 and 1.355. Will I notice any discernible difference in accuracy between the rounds? Should I trim anything over 1.358? I really thought the brass would be more consistent in length than it is or at least hoped it would all be 1.360 give or take a .001. Am I being incorrect or to anal in my measurements/expectations? I did just process about 500.223 rounds and managed to trim to a consistent 1.750. View Quote Says on their website 1.355 +/- 0.002, your brass obviously does not measure up. I would make sure you are calibrating(zeroing) your calipers before measuring. From my experience with reloading other clalibers, 0.05 has not had any noticeable effect on accuracy for me, unless I was loading to the lands of the barrel, and as long as I was within specs. With that being said I would trim everything over 1.358 and offer some constructive feedback to the company. Good luck and remember to work up loads carefully and stay within safety limits. |
|
|
Originally Posted By 9mmprn:
Noob reloader here. Maybe someone can set me straight. I just received 1000 fully processed 300 blackout brass from East Coast Arsenal for reloading my first ever rounds. Case length varies between 1.360 and 1.354. Will I notice any discernible difference in accuracy between the rounds? Should I trim anything over 1.358? I really thought the brass would be more consistent in length than it is or at least hoped it would all be 1.360 give or take a .001. Am I being incorrect or to anal in my measurements/expectations? I did just process about 500.223 rounds and managed to trim to a consistent 1.750. View Quote What ever you do, try chambering some of the empty cases first before loading |
|
|
Originally Posted By OmegaOmnitron:
Says on their website 1.355 +/- 0.002, your brass obviously does not measure up. I would make sure you are calibrating(zeroing) your calipers before measuring. From my experience with reloading other clalibers, 0.05 has not had any noticeable effect on accuracy for me, unless I was loading to the lands of the barrel, and as long as I was within specs. With that being said I would trim everything over 1.358 and offer some constructive feedback to the company. Good luck and remember to work up loads carefully and stay within safety limits. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By OmegaOmnitron:
Originally Posted By 9mmprn:
Noob reloader here. Maybe someone can set me straight. I just received 1000 fully processed 300 blackout brass from East Coast Arsenal for reloading my first ever rounds. Case length varies between 1.360 and 1.355. Will I notice any discernible difference in accuracy between the rounds? Should I trim anything over 1.358? I really thought the brass would be more consistent in length than it is or at least hoped it would all be 1.360 give or take a .001. Am I being incorrect or to anal in my measurements/expectations? I did just process about 500.223 rounds and managed to trim to a consistent 1.750. Says on their website 1.355 +/- 0.002, your brass obviously does not measure up. I would make sure you are calibrating(zeroing) your calipers before measuring. From my experience with reloading other clalibers, 0.05 has not had any noticeable effect on accuracy for me, unless I was loading to the lands of the barrel, and as long as I was within specs. With that being said I would trim everything over 1.358 and offer some constructive feedback to the company. Good luck and remember to work up loads carefully and stay within safety limits. Okay. Thanks. I really wish I would have just bought a bunch of LC 5.56 and made my own brass. So far fully processed cases have been a lot of work. About 1 in 5 cases needed primer pockets reamed (per swage gauge) or needed to have the case mouths re-rounded. I used a Slotted Sheridan case gauge to check about 500 cases so far. Out of about 20 no go cases I was able to resize about 1/2 with a Redding full length resizing die. I still haven't been able to figure out why the others were still "no go's". They seem to be too wide at the base? |
|
|
Originally Posted By We-rBorg:
What ever you do, try chambering some of the empty cases first before loading View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By We-rBorg:
Originally Posted By 9mmprn:
Noob reloader here. Maybe someone can set me straight. I just received 1000 fully processed 300 blackout brass from East Coast Arsenal for reloading my first ever rounds. Case length varies between 1.360 and 1.354. Will I notice any discernible difference in accuracy between the rounds? Should I trim anything over 1.358? I really thought the brass would be more consistent in length than it is or at least hoped it would all be 1.360 give or take a .001. Am I being incorrect or to anal in my measurements/expectations? I did just process about 500.223 rounds and managed to trim to a consistent 1.750. What ever you do, try chambering some of the empty cases first before loading I've been using a Sheridan case gauge but will do this also. Thanks. |
|
|
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
|
Originally Posted By 9mmprn: Noob reloader here. Maybe someone can set me straight. I just received 1000 fully processed 300 blackout brass from East Coast Arsenal for reloading my first ever rounds. Case length varies between 1.360 and 1.354. Will I notice any discernible difference in accuracy between the rounds? Should I trim anything over 1.358? I really thought the brass would be more consistent in length than it is or at least hoped it would all be 1.360 give or take a .001. Am I being incorrect or to anal in my measurements/expectations? I did just process about 500.223 rounds and managed to trim to a consistent 1.750. View Quote Now you know to not buy "processed" brass. If you make it yourself, you control the quality. When I make my cases I trim to 1.360, just because I like even numbers. Accuracy with your various length cases? Depends on your rifle and the load you use. Load them with 147-150 gr FMJ's and you might not notice. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Now you know to not buy "processed" brass. If you make it yourself, you control the quality. When I make my cases I trim to 1.360, just because I like even numbers. Accuracy with your various length cases? Depends on your rifle and the load you use. Load them with 147-150 gr FMJ's and you might not notice. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Originally Posted By 9mmprn:
Noob reloader here. Maybe someone can set me straight. I just received 1000 fully processed 300 blackout brass from East Coast Arsenal for reloading my first ever rounds. Case length varies between 1.360 and 1.354. Will I notice any discernible difference in accuracy between the rounds? Should I trim anything over 1.358? I really thought the brass would be more consistent in length than it is or at least hoped it would all be 1.360 give or take a .001. Am I being incorrect or to anal in my measurements/expectations? I did just process about 500.223 rounds and managed to trim to a consistent 1.750. Now you know to not buy "processed" brass. If you make it yourself, you control the quality. When I make my cases I trim to 1.360, just because I like even numbers. Accuracy with your various length cases? Depends on your rifle and the load you use. Load them with 147-150 gr FMJ's and you might not notice. Thanks. I'll be using a suppressed 10.5" AR upper and had hoped to experiment with lots of different bullets but loads will be mostly subs (180-220gr). I've started trimming the longest pieces to 1.358 so now most are within a few thousandths of each other (sans the occasional cases shorter than 1.355). Why the suggestion to use 147-150? |
|
|
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
|
Cheap, not the most accurate bullets, so you wouldn't notice the accuracy loss so much.
Now that you said subsonic, you are on your own, as I only load super sonic. You want cheap sub sonic bullets, look to the commercial cast bullets or cast your own. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Fear is the foundation of most governments.
TN, USA
|
Today I learned that 147gr supersonic ammo is pretty snappy out of a 9" barrel, and that if your face is too close to the charging handle it will try to knock a tooth out
|
how many times a week do you married guys get to clap them cheeks? noymisayn?
-blackrage- |
Ouch! That's a good think to know in advance... Too bad you are apparently reporting from experience.
|
|
"--you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."
Heinlein NRA Life Member Glock Certified Armorer Certified AR15 Armorer Certified M1911 Armorer |
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.