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Posted: 2/5/2014 7:19:34 PM EDT
[#1]
My bad Flash left out the important part to that.
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3:
FIFY I covered that on page 1 of this thread. Which is the method used by AAC (company that got 300 blk SAMMI approved, and the first to come out with the round) but some use "other" methods. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3:
Originally Posted By 13starsinax:
I thought COAL was subject to magazine bump in the front of the magazine and the .250 point on the bullet ogive end. I covered that on page 1 of this thread. Which is the method used by AAC (company that got 300 blk SAMMI approved, and the first to come out with the round) but some use "other" methods. |
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Posted: 2/5/2014 8:25:10 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xtreme762:
You're right. So I retract my statement. But still want to know what bullet? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xtreme762:
Originally Posted By 458winmag:
Originally Posted By xtreme762:
Originally Posted By disco_jon75:
Just loaded my first .300 AAC rounds... I'm going to see how they do... please speak up if something doesn't sound right. 15.0gr of Accurate 4100, COAL of 2.060 15.5gr of Accurate 4100, COAL of 2.060 16.0gr of Accurate 4100, COAL of 2.065 16.5gr of Accurate 4100, COAL of 2.065 17.0gr of Accurate 4100, COAL of 2.065 17.5gr of Accurate 4100, COAL of 2.065 18.0gr of Accurate 4100, COAL of 2.070 Based it off of this... http://www.lohmanarms.com/v/vspfiles/files/300_ACC_Blackout_Data.pdf Did I go too short (dangerously) on the COAL? Do these sound like safe loads? It's been about 3 years since I've done any reloading so I would appreciate a second look from anyone who's experienced with this cartridge. What bullet? Those COAL's look fine, very common COAL's. Might have the cart in front of the horse You're right. So I retract my statement. But still want to know what bullet? I'm an idiot. Sorry. 125gr Sierra Matchking 2121Cs. |
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Posted: 2/5/2014 9:54:32 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 13starsinax: My bad Flash left out the important part to that. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 13starsinax: My bad Flash left out the important part to that. Originally Posted By dryflash3: Originally Posted By 13starsinax: I thought COAL was subject to magazine bump in the front of the magazine and the .250 point on the bullet ogive end. I covered that on page 1 of this thread. Which is the method used by AAC (company that got 300 blk SAMMI approved, and the first to come out with the round) but some use "other" methods.  |
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Posted: 2/5/2014 10:26:05 PM EDT
[#4]
im having no luck, even with a .25 dia HP it still wont open..
I annealed the copper and I can now smash the jackets with my fingers. I have them cleaning now, and hope to make a few bullets up tomorow.. this project is really pissing me off.. 
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Posted: 2/5/2014 10:31:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Have you attempted putting small starter cuts (insert technical word) like HP pistol rounds have?
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Posted: 2/5/2014 11:14:00 PM EDT
[#6]
Minimum reliable expansion velocity?
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Posted: 2/6/2014 12:45:33 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By InfiniteGrim:
Have you attempted putting small starter cuts (insert technical word) like HP pistol rounds have? thats next if the annealing test fails. |
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Posted: 2/6/2014 6:45:29 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
thats next if the annealing test fails. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
Originally Posted By InfiniteGrim:
Have you attempted putting small starter cuts (insert technical word) like HP pistol rounds have? thats next if the annealing test fails. I feel your pain man. But am confident that you will overcome and bring some absolutely awesome bullets to us desperate few. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/7/2014 12:56:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
im having no luck, even with a .25 dia HP it still wont open..
I annealed the copper and I can now smash the jackets with my fingers. I have them cleaning now, and hope to make a few bullets up tomorow.. this project is really pissing me off.. This may not help out at all, but have you checked out the 9x39 subsonic rounds? I have no idea if they expand well or not honestly, but I always thought they looked like soft points on steriods. 
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Posted: 2/7/2014 1:08:10 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 223Sauce:
This may not help out at all, but have you checked out the 9x39 subsonic rounds? I have no idea if they expand well or not honestly, but I always thought they looked like soft points on steriods. http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQJ6NiU9xGcs98uefaqQXkcDgR5CsaGhugWsNCmo8ZEJdVB3OT3kg http://weapons.my1.ru/patron/9x39-7.jpg http://gearsofguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/9x39.jpg http://www.firearmsworld.net/ammo/9x39sp/spammo.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 223Sauce:
Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
im having no luck, even with a .25 dia HP it still wont open..
I annealed the copper and I can now smash the jackets with my fingers. I have them cleaning now, and hope to make a few bullets up tomorow.. this project is really pissing me off.. This may not help out at all, but have you checked out the 9x39 subsonic rounds? I have no idea if they expand well or not honestly, but I always thought they looked like soft points on steriods. http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQJ6NiU9xGcs98uefaqQXkcDgR5CsaGhugWsNCmo8ZEJdVB3OT3kg http://weapons.my1.ru/patron/9x39-7.jpg http://gearsofguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/9x39.jpg http://www.firearmsworld.net/ammo/9x39sp/spammo.jpg I believe those are hardened cores meant to penetrate armor at subsonic velocities, not expand 
FM, have you looked at the Outlaw State bullets? I think I posted a link a while back. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/7/2014 1:28:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RDTCU:
I believe those are hardened cores meant to penetrate armor at subsonic velocities, not expand
FM, have you looked at the Outlaw State bullets? I think I posted a link a while back. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RDTCU:
Originally Posted By 223Sauce:
Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
im having no luck, even with a .25 dia HP it still wont open..
I annealed the copper and I can now smash the jackets with my fingers. I have them cleaning now, and hope to make a few bullets up tomorow.. this project is really pissing me off.. This may not help out at all, but have you checked out the 9x39 subsonic rounds? I have no idea if they expand well or not honestly, but I always thought they looked like soft points on steriods. http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQJ6NiU9xGcs98uefaqQXkcDgR5CsaGhugWsNCmo8ZEJdVB3OT3kg http://weapons.my1.ru/patron/9x39-7.jpg http://gearsofguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/9x39.jpg http://www.firearmsworld.net/ammo/9x39sp/spammo.jpg I believe those are hardened cores meant to penetrate armor at subsonic velocities, not expand
FM, have you looked at the Outlaw State bullets? I think I posted a link a while back. That would make more sense then. |
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Posted: 2/7/2014 4:27:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RDTCU:
I believe those are hardened cores meant to penetrate armor at subsonic velocities, not expand
FM, have you looked at the Outlaw State bullets? I think I posted a link a while back. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RDTCU:
Originally Posted By 223Sauce:
Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
im having no luck, even with a .25 dia HP it still wont open..
I annealed the copper and I can now smash the jackets with my fingers. I have them cleaning now, and hope to make a few bullets up tomorow.. this project is really pissing me off.. This may not help out at all, but have you checked out the 9x39 subsonic rounds? I have no idea if they expand well or not honestly, but I always thought they looked like soft points on steriods. http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQJ6NiU9xGcs98uefaqQXkcDgR5CsaGhugWsNCmo8ZEJdVB3OT3kg http://weapons.my1.ru/patron/9x39-7.jpg http://gearsofguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/9x39.jpg http://www.firearmsworld.net/ammo/9x39sp/spammo.jpg I believe those are hardened cores meant to penetrate armor at subsonic velocities, not expand
FM, have you looked at the Outlaw State bullets? I think I posted a link a while back. Yup and was hoping to do it with out scoring the jackets. AKA offering something new. His stuff is all scored.. |
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Posted: 2/13/2014 2:49:25 PM EDT
[#13]
Quick question:
Should I anneal after cutting the brass, or forming to 300 BLK, and prior to loading? |
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Posted: 2/13/2014 4:48:50 PM EDT
[#14]
after cutting and before forming is what i do and what i see recommended most.
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Posted: 2/13/2014 4:51:27 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Delbaeth:
after cutting and before forming is what i do and what i see recommended most. Excellent. I skimmed all 55 pages and didn't find it anywhere. |
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Posted: 2/13/2014 9:56:05 PM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 2/13/2014 10:12:08 PM EDT
[#17]
Is there much case growth with the blackout ? With the small shoulder it seems like it would be like a straight walled case ?
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Posted: 2/13/2014 10:51:04 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Easy_E:
Is there much case growth with the blackout ? With the small shoulder it seems like it would be like a straight walled case ? No not that I have noticed. I have some I have loaded 5 times now without having to trim. |
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Posted: 2/13/2014 11:53:51 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bm3:
No not that I have noticed. I have some I have loaded 5 times now without having to trim. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bm3:
Originally Posted By Easy_E:
Is there much case growth with the blackout ? With the small shoulder it seems like it would be like a straight walled case ? No not that I have noticed. I have some I have loaded 5 times now without having to trim. Same here. I have some that have been loaded 8 times with no stretch. |
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Posted: 2/14/2014 2:13:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: m411b30]
[#20]
Here's one for the masses!
For this load my requirements was less than precision, and more geared towards having a heavy bullet for close(100yds., and below) range hunting. My criteria was to get the bullet going as fast as I could without hitting 55,000PSI, and be able to hit an 8" AR500 plate at 100yds. consecutively with an Aimpoint out of a 10.5" barrel. I met my requirements, so here it is. 200gn Speer Hot Core @ 1600FPS. Remington 7 1/2 14.1gn IMR 4227 -- Way over, so work up slow! COAL 2.165" -- In my chamber MAX COAL for this bullet is 2.21" Converted LC brass @ 1.36" -- NO crimp 
ETA: I realize these are way past the bump in the mag. But out of 3 different rifles they feed fine, and without issues. Also, I tested these on 1 gallon jugs filled with hot water at 100yds., and every time the jugs explode. So they are expanding. |
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Posted: 2/14/2014 2:51:15 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xtreme762:
Here's one for the masses! For this load my requirements was less than precision, and more geared towards having a heavy bullet for close(100yds., and below) range hunting. My criteria was to get the bullet going as fast as I could without hitting 55,000PSI, and be able to hit an 8" AR500 plate at 100yds. consecutively with an Aimpoint out of a 10.5" barrel. I met my requirements, so here it is. 200gn Speer Hot Core @ 1600FPS. Remington 7 1/2 14.1gn IMR 4227 -- Way over, so work up slow! COAL 2.165" -- In my chamber MAX COAL for this bullet is 2.21" Converted LC brass @ 1.36" -- NO crimp http://imageshack.com/a/img542/1992/n4gx.jpg ETA: I realize these are way past the bump in the mag. But out of 3 different rifles they feed fine, and without issues. Also, I tested these on 1 gallon jugs filled with hot water at 100yds., and every time the jugs explode. So they are expanding. Looks good, But just because a jug explodes does not necessarily mean the bullet expanded. Have had plenty of explosive jugs with non expanding bullets. I don't know what the expansion threshold is for the Hot core, but I suspect it is substantially faster then 1600 fps. I could be wrong, But until I was able to recover a bullet I would be leery of it expanding at that velocity. |
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Posted: 2/14/2014 3:25:55 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By garyd:
Looks good, But just because a jug explodes does not necessarily mean the bullet expanded. Have had plenty of explosive jugs with non expanding bullets. I don't know what the expansion threshold is for the Hot core, but I suspect it is substantially faster then 1600 fps. I could be wrong, But until I was able to recover a bullet I would be leery of it expanding at that velocity. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By garyd:
Originally Posted By xtreme762:
Here's one for the masses! For this load my requirements was less than precision, and more geared towards having a heavy bullet for close(100yds., and below) range hunting. My criteria was to get the bullet going as fast as I could without hitting 55,000PSI, and be able to hit an 8" AR500 plate at 100yds. consecutively with an Aimpoint out of a 10.5" barrel. I met my requirements, so here it is. 200gn Speer Hot Core @ 1600FPS. Remington 7 1/2 14.1gn IMR 4227 -- Way over, so work up slow! COAL 2.165" -- In my chamber MAX COAL for this bullet is 2.21" Converted LC brass @ 1.36" -- NO crimp http://imageshack.com/a/img542/1992/n4gx.jpg ETA: I realize these are way past the bump in the mag. But out of 3 different rifles they feed fine, and without issues. Also, I tested these on 1 gallon jugs filled with hot water at 100yds., and every time the jugs explode. So they are expanding. Looks good, But just because a jug explodes does not necessarily mean the bullet expanded. Have had plenty of explosive jugs with non expanding bullets. I don't know what the expansion threshold is for the Hot core, but I suspect it is substantially faster then 1600 fps. I could be wrong, But until I was able to recover a bullet I would be leery of it expanding at that velocity. You're right. I don't know that they are expanding perfectly. But what I have experienced in developing this load is that these don't explode a jug of water at 100yds at lower velocities. Even at 1500fps. they wouldn't even move the jug. They would just poke holes, and the water would drain out. At 1600fps. the jug explodes, and flies up in the air about 20 feet. Which tells me that they are expanding somewhat, and on water. To what extent, I have no idea without making up a batch of 10% ordnance gelatin. A deer at 100yds. is going to be different, especially if the bullet hits bone. But I would venture to say they will expand. |
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Posted: 2/14/2014 3:47:09 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xtreme762:
You're right. I don't know that they are expanding perfectly. But what I have experienced in developing this load is that these don't explode a jug of water at 100yds at lower velocities. Even at 1500fps. they wouldn't even move the jug. They would just poke holes, and the water would drain out. At 1600fps. the jug explodes, and flies up in the air about 20 feet. Which tells me that they are expanding somewhat, and on water. To what extent, I have no idea without making up a batch of 10% ordnance gelatin. A deer at 100yds. is going to be different, especially if the bullet hits bone. But I would venture to say they will expand. I don't have gel either, as much as I would like some. I use a different more affordable and easy method. It is not scientific, but I have found that it acts as a somewhat ok substitute. Stacked soaked phone books and catalogs as well as stacked soaked cardboard. I stack them at least 30 inches thick with a couple of 2x8 or 10 at the end. Again it is not scientific, but it has for the most part given me a good idea of what bullets will do at differing velocities. |
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Posted: 2/14/2014 4:51:41 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By garyd:
I don't have gel either, as much as I would like some. I use a different more affordable and easy method. It is not scientific, but I have found that it acts as a somewhat ok substitute. Stacked soaked phone books and catalogs as well as stacked soaked cardboard. I stack them at least 30 inches thick with a couple of 2x8 or 10 at the end. Again it is not scientific, but it has for the most part given me a good idea of what bullets will do at differing velocities. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By garyd:
Originally Posted By xtreme762:
You're right. I don't know that they are expanding perfectly. But what I have experienced in developing this load is that these don't explode a jug of water at 100yds at lower velocities. Even at 1500fps. they wouldn't even move the jug. They would just poke holes, and the water would drain out. At 1600fps. the jug explodes, and flies up in the air about 20 feet. Which tells me that they are expanding somewhat, and on water. To what extent, I have no idea without making up a batch of 10% ordnance gelatin. A deer at 100yds. is going to be different, especially if the bullet hits bone. But I would venture to say they will expand. I don't have gel either, as much as I would like some. I use a different more affordable and easy method. It is not scientific, but I have found that it acts as a somewhat ok substitute. Stacked soaked phone books and catalogs as well as stacked soaked cardboard. I stack them at least 30 inches thick with a couple of 2x8 or 10 at the end. Again it is not scientific, but it has for the most part given me a good idea of what bullets will do at differing velocities. I should box up this stinky stuff from Corbin I have and ship it to ya.. 
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Posted: 2/14/2014 7:54:49 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By garyd:
I don't have gel either, as much as I would like some. I use a different more affordable and easy method. It is not scientific, but I have found that it acts as a somewhat ok substitute. Stacked soaked phone books and catalogs as well as stacked soaked cardboard. I stack them at least 30 inches thick with a couple of 2x8 or 10 at the end. Again it is not scientific, but it has for the most part given me a good idea of what bullets will do at differing velocities. I've got gelatin. But I'm not gonna waste it on these. I will, however, do your test with them. I have a shit load(banded stacks) of old newspapers on hand that have been outside in the rain for a couple months now. I'll report back after I test. I was also thinking that even if they don't expand they should tumble, and cause just as much damage. |
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Posted: 2/14/2014 9:19:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: garyd]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xtreme762:
I've got gelatin. But I'm not gonna waste it on these. I will, however, do your test with them. I have a shit load(banded stacks) of old newspapers on hand that have been outside in the rain for a couple months now. I'll report back after I test. I was also thinking that even if they don't expand they should tumble, and cause just as much damage. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xtreme762:
Originally Posted By garyd:
I don't have gel either, as much as I would like some. I use a different more affordable and easy method. It is not scientific, but I have found that it acts as a somewhat ok substitute. Stacked soaked phone books and catalogs as well as stacked soaked cardboard. I stack them at least 30 inches thick with a couple of 2x8 or 10 at the end. Again it is not scientific, but it has for the most part given me a good idea of what bullets will do at differing velocities. I've got gelatin. But I'm not gonna waste it on these. I will, however, do your test with them. I have a shit load(banded stacks) of old newspapers on hand that have been outside in the rain for a couple months now. I'll report back after I test. I was also thinking that even if they don't expand they should tumble, and cause just as much damage. From what I have tested, it will tumble. just may depend on how much it penetrates before it starts the tumble. That was my frustration in finding a bullet that would effectively tumble quickly. Most of my testing with non expanding bullets tumbling was dependent on barrel twist. but i did not do a lot with heavy grain super sonic testing. |
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Posted: 2/14/2014 9:28:39 PM EDT
[#27]
Dryflash3 asked me to post this here. A write up I did on subsonic Hunting.
300 blackout Subsonic hunting Just based on my experiences and failures. hope to be a help to any that my be contemplating Subsonic hunting. Or even may doubt its possibility  .
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Posted: 2/14/2014 10:15:10 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By garyd:
From what I have tested, it will tumble. just may depend on how much it penetrates before it starts the tumble. That was my frustration in finding a bullet that would effectively tumble quickly. Most of my testing with non expanding bullets tumbling was dependent on barrel twist. but i did not do a lot with heavy grain super sonic testing. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By garyd:
Originally Posted By xtreme762:
Originally Posted By garyd:
I don't have gel either, as much as I would like some. I use a different more affordable and easy method. It is not scientific, but I have found that it acts as a somewhat ok substitute. Stacked soaked phone books and catalogs as well as stacked soaked cardboard. I stack them at least 30 inches thick with a couple of 2x8 or 10 at the end. Again it is not scientific, but it has for the most part given me a good idea of what bullets will do at differing velocities. I've got gelatin. But I'm not gonna waste it on these. I will, however, do your test with them. I have a shit load(banded stacks) of old newspapers on hand that have been outside in the rain for a couple months now. I'll report back after I test. I was also thinking that even if they don't expand they should tumble, and cause just as much damage. From what I have tested, it will tumble. just may depend on how much it penetrates before it starts the tumble. That was my frustration in finding a bullet that would effectively tumble quickly. Most of my testing with non expanding bullets tumbling was dependent on barrel twist. but i did not do a lot with heavy grain super sonic testing. I'll be subsonic hunting this year. So your post above is very helpful. I'll be using the 208gn A-Max @ 1100fps. suppressed hopefully. The reason I went with a heavy supersonic was because of barrel twist. I knew if I couldn't get the velocity to expand that I would most likely be able to get it tumble fairly quickly. Either on impact, or within an inch, or two. With the higher velocity, comes more energy which in turn equals less likely chance of hitting bone, wounding, and not being able to recover. 100yds. is about as far as I have on my land for a clear shot. So that was my goal for energy. Subsonic will be a different story. |
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Posted: 2/14/2014 11:00:21 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By garyd: Dryflash3 asked me to post this here. A write up I did on subsonic Hunting. 300 blackout Subsonic hunting Just based on my experiences and failures. hope to be a help to any that my be contemplating Subsonic hunting. Or even may doubt its possibility . |
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Posted: 2/15/2014 1:43:01 PM EDT
[#30]
Alright, gentlemen. So I went out, and stacked several stacks of wet papers end to end at 100yds.. I stacked them end to end to be able to see the action easily.
What I found is that garyd, you are correct! Those 200gn HC's are not expanding. BUT, they are tumbling within 3" - 10". I shot 5 shots into the paper, and three of them started to tumble right at the 3" mark. The other two didn't start until around 10", and they exited the paper(48"). So they were un-recoverable. There's nothing left of the paper after ripping through it. So no pics of that. I think what I was see with the jugs was the tip creating hydrostatic shock when it hit the jug. Because the tips are gone on all three bullets. I also think that because the soft lead tip is starting to expand that it is making the bullets tumble fairly quickly. Because it's making the back of the bullet much heavier than the front. 
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Posted: 2/15/2014 3:29:59 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xtreme762:
Alright, gentlemen. So I went out, and stacked several stacks of wet papers end to end at 100yds.. I stacked them end to end to be able to see the action easily. What I found is that garyd, you are correct! Those 200gn HC's are not expanding. BUT, they are tumbling within 3" - 10". I shot 5 shots into the paper, and three of them started to tumble right at the 3" mark. The other two didn't start until around 10", and they exited the paper(48"). So they were un-recoverable. There's nothing left of the paper after ripping through it. So no pics of that. I think what I was see with the jugs was the tip creating hydrostatic shock when it hit the jug. Because the tips are gone on all three bullets. I also think that because the soft lead tip is starting to expand that it is making the bullets tumble fairly quickly. Because it's making the back of the bullet much heavier than the front. http://imageshack.com/a/img850/454/36bx.jpg yup ive been trying to get one to expand as slow speeds for over a year now..
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Posted: 2/15/2014 7:37:06 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xtreme762:
Alright, gentlemen. So I went out, and stacked several stacks of wet papers end to end at 100yds.. I stacked them end to end to be able to see the action easily. What I found is that garyd, you are correct! Those 200gn HC's are not expanding. BUT, they are tumbling within 3" - 10". I shot 5 shots into the paper, and three of them started to tumble right at the 3" mark. The other two didn't start until around 10", and they exited the paper(48"). So they were un-recoverable. There's nothing left of the paper after ripping through it. So no pics of that. I think what I was see with the jugs was the tip creating hydrostatic shock when it hit the jug. Because the tips are gone on all three bullets. I also think that because the soft lead tip is starting to expand that it is making the bullets tumble fairly quickly. Because it's making the back of the bullet much heavier than the front. http://imageshack.com/a/img850/454/36bx.jpg I was afraid of that. If you were able to consistently repeat the tumbling at the 3 inch mark, I think I would be comfortable with using it. as it is 10" might just be to far in to be useful, but then again it may decrease that distance when inside a deer or hog. it is hard to say |
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Posted: 2/15/2014 7:37:52 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
yup ive been trying to get one to expand as slow speeds for over a year now.. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
Originally Posted By xtreme762:
Alright, gentlemen. So I went out, and stacked several stacks of wet papers end to end at 100yds.. I stacked them end to end to be able to see the action easily. What I found is that garyd, you are correct! Those 200gn HC's are not expanding. BUT, they are tumbling within 3" - 10". I shot 5 shots into the paper, and three of them started to tumble right at the 3" mark. The other two didn't start until around 10", and they exited the paper(48"). So they were un-recoverable. There's nothing left of the paper after ripping through it. So no pics of that. I think what I was see with the jugs was the tip creating hydrostatic shock when it hit the jug. Because the tips are gone on all three bullets. I also think that because the soft lead tip is starting to expand that it is making the bullets tumble fairly quickly. Because it's making the back of the bullet much heavier than the front. http://imageshack.com/a/img850/454/36bx.jpg yup ive been trying to get one to expand as slow speeds for over a year now.. stiff upper lip and all that Mcnasty
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Posted: 2/15/2014 8:14:26 PM EDT
[#34]
I'll try again tomorrow with the 50 I still have loaded. If anything these'll make good plinkin' rounds for fun. Their cheap enough($16/100) so why not.
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Posted: 2/15/2014 8:16:27 PM EDT
[#35]
Fats,
Would it be possible to create a bullet with an 'air gap' between the tip and main lead insert? Something that would allow the tip to collapse into the gap and give expansion a head start? |
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Posted: 2/15/2014 8:23:54 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VacaDuck:
Fats, Would it be possible to create a bullet with an 'air gap' between the tip and main lead insert? Something that would allow the tip to collapse into the gap and give expansion a head start? Something like the Varmint Grenade ? |
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Posted: 2/15/2014 8:29:06 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Easy_E: Something like the Varmint Grenade ? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Easy_E: Originally Posted By VacaDuck: Fats, Would it be possible to create a bullet with an 'air gap' between the tip and main lead insert? Something that would allow the tip to collapse into the gap and give expansion a head start? Something like the Varmint Grenade ? I don't know those, but Nosler Ballistic Tips have a bit of a gap between the nylon tip and the lead core to help with expansion. |
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Posted: 2/15/2014 8:32:15 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VacaDuck:
I don't know those, but Nosler Ballistic Tips have a bit of a gap between the nylon tip and the lead core to help with expansion. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VacaDuck:
Originally Posted By Easy_E:
Originally Posted By VacaDuck:
Fats, Would it be possible to create a bullet with an 'air gap' between the tip and main lead insert? Something that would allow the tip to collapse into the gap and give expansion a head start? Something like the Varmint Grenade ? I don't know those, but Nosler Ballistic Tips have a bit of a gap between the nylon tip and the lead core to help with expansion. http://www.cabelas.com/product/Barnes-Varmint-Grenade-Bullets/740977.uts |
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Posted: 2/15/2014 8:36:12 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Easy_E:
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Barnes-Varmint-Grenade-Bullets/740977.uts Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Easy_E:
Originally Posted By VacaDuck:
Originally Posted By Easy_E:
Originally Posted By VacaDuck:
Fats, Would it be possible to create a bullet with an 'air gap' between the tip and main lead insert? Something that would allow the tip to collapse into the gap and give expansion a head start? Something like the Varmint Grenade ? I don't know those, but Nosler Ballistic Tips have a bit of a gap between the nylon tip and the lead core to help with expansion. http://www.cabelas.com/product/Barnes-Varmint-Grenade-Bullets/740977.uts yup tried it. were too slow to get it to pop.. |
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Posted: 2/15/2014 8:40:11 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fat_McNasty: yup tried it. were too slow to get it to pop.. Well, it was just a thought. |
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Posted: 2/15/2014 8:50:39 PM EDT
[#41]
The jacket has to be thinner. The grenades in my 223 and 22-250 went through prairie dogs with no expansion.
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MN, USA
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Posted: 2/16/2014 3:23:54 AM EDT
[#42]
I worked up a new load today that looks promising:
125 gr SMK blems (from Powder Valley) 19.5 gr Alliant 300-MP 2.210" OAL Wolf SRM Light crimp Velocity: 2029 AVG 46 ES 18 SD Rifle is a 10.5" SBR with 1-4 Burris TAC30 I only loaded 10 rnds to test, 5 for the chrono and 5 to shoot a group at 100 yds: 
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SC, USA
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Posted: 2/16/2014 6:19:35 PM EDT
[#43]
hello all, first few posts for me:
it was moved from another portion of the forum in hopes people could help with this. I wanted to ask the group for some help in Load data for the 150grain X-treme FP Copper jacket bullet. Being that its not a boat tail, and its a FP.. I had wondered about OAL ... there is other 150gr load data out there, but X-treme says that it recommends the FP move no faster than 1500FPS. which most of the load data for the same grain moves 5-800FPS faster. To impart some additional information, this will be coming out of a 9inch barrel. I plan to be using Accurate 1680 powder. Accurate's site shows this data for a 150grain: 150 SIERRA FMJBT GK 19.5 1877 21.7 2,057 54,564 2.140 The start grain was 19.5 for a FPS of 1877-- 377FPS more than what Xtreme says should be used.. and a COL(OAL) of 2.14 inches... which sets the bullet very very far out..... the OAL on the bullet just mating to the surface of the casing is 2.1915 .. which leaves only like .05 of the bullet inside the case wall... seems wrong to me so the question remains, has anyone had experience the Xtreme 150grain and can they share some information about OAL and their powder load.. I emailed Xtreme to ask them what load information they have since I could not find any on their site... was just hoping to start a conversation on this to share some information... thanks everyone and if I left things out.. feel free to bonk me on the head. |
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Posted: 2/16/2014 10:47:38 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SS109Penatrator: hello all, first few posts for me: it was moved from another portion of the forum in hopes people could help with this. I wanted to ask the group for some help in Load data for the 150grain X-treme FP Copper jacket bullet. Being that its not a boat tail, and its a FP.. I had wondered about OAL ... there is other 150gr load data out there, but X-treme says that it recommends the FP move no faster than 1500FPS. which most of the load data for the same grain moves 5-800FPS faster. To impart some additional information, this will be coming out of a 9inch barrel. I plan to be using Accurate 1680 powder. I'm not understanding why you want to push the bullet faster than the makers recommendation. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SS109Penatrator: hello all, first few posts for me: it was moved from another portion of the forum in hopes people could help with this. I wanted to ask the group for some help in Load data for the 150grain X-treme FP Copper jacket bullet. Being that its not a boat tail, and its a FP.. I had wondered about OAL ... there is other 150gr load data out there, but X-treme says that it recommends the FP move no faster than 1500FPS. which most of the load data for the same grain moves 5-800FPS faster. To impart some additional information, this will be coming out of a 9inch barrel. I plan to be using Accurate 1680 powder. I'm not understanding why you want to push the bullet faster than the makers recommendation. Accurate's site shows this data for a 150grain: 150 SIERRA FMJBT GK 19.5 1877 21.7 2,057 54,564 2.140 The start grain was 19.5 for a FPS of 1877-- 377FPS more than what Xtreme says should be used.. and a COL(OAL) of 2.14 inches... which sets the bullet very very far out..... the OAL on the bullet just mating to the surface of the casing is 2.1915 .. which leaves only like .05 of the bullet inside the case wall... seems wrong to me so the question remains, has anyone had experience the Xtreme 150grain and can they share some information about OAL and their powder load.. I emailed Xtreme to ask them what load information they have since I could not find any on their site... was just hoping to start a conversation on this to share some information... thanks everyone and if I left things out.. feel free to bonk me on the head. Hornady 9, pg 382 lists the start load for 150 gr jacketed bullets for 300 blk with AA 1680 at 15.4 grs for 1500 fps. This is where I would start and work up very slowly watching for bullet failure. I also suggest you make some dummy rounds (no primer or powder) and check to see if your rounds will feed. I expect they will, as I have loaded RN and FN bullets in 300 blk that functioned well. The only bullet that won't feed for me is the 110 gr RN meant for 30 carbine. It's just too short. The key is the correct OAL. Your posts will be easier to read if you double space after a sentence, like I'm doing. You are in a technical forum here which means posts will be kept polite and there will be no attacks. People can disagree, but they will do so politely. So you can leave out the part about bonking. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2014 12:07:09 PM EDT
[#45]
To answer your question, it wasn't a matter of trying to push the bullet faster than what they recommended, it was a matter of trying to find the
right powder load to suit the bullet. and the information pertaining to Accurate powder loads for a 150grain HPBT was the closest I could find and the resultant speeds were much faster, so I am just trying to find a balance.. maybe using less powder, but how much less and how that compares to OAL... my knowledge is somewhat limited, also the reason I went to the maker of the bullet to see what they could share in load data for it. and like I said, the OAL mentioned in my previous post was also vastly different which would set the bullet very far out on the edge. I'll keep at it, and I appreciate the post move . |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2014 12:21:18 PM EDT
[#46]
Hornady 9, pg 382 lists the start load for 150 gr jacketed bullets for 300 blk with AA 1680 at 15.4 grs for 1500 fps.
I will look into this, thanks for the information. |
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Posted: 2/17/2014 1:09:33 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SS109Penatrator: To answer your question, it wasn't a matter of trying to push the bullet faster than what they recommended, it was a matter of trying to find the right powder load to suit the bullet. and the information pertaining to Accurate powder loads for a 150grain HPBT was the closest I could find and the resultant speeds were much faster, so I am just trying to find a balance.. maybe using less powder, but how much less and how that compares to OAL... my knowledge is somewhat limited, also the reason I went to the maker of the bullet to see what they could share in load data for it. and like I said, the OAL mentioned in my previous post was also vastly different which would set the bullet very far out on the edge. I'll keep at it, and I appreciate the post move . Grab a mag and a Sharpie and work with your OAL. (using the method I posted on page 1 in this thread) You will figure it out.
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Posted: 2/17/2014 1:24:40 PM EDT
[#48]
Or use one of these:
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Posted: 2/17/2014 3:47:30 PM EDT
[#49]
I use this to determine the .250" on projectiles, I machined it from 6061
brush Dykem on the top 
Set the projectile in, the defined mark is the bottom of the line 
Takes literally 10 seconds, doesn't get any easier than that. I am not a fan of using sharpies to mark things... |
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Posted: 2/17/2014 3:48:48 PM EDT
[#50]
You can just set your calipers to .250" and put them on the bullet, press a little and spin. Leaves a light scratch.
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