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Ace hardware fix for XL650 oal variance.
1911smith  [Team Member]
Chronicled in this post is process I went through to remove as much oal variance as possible out of my XL650.



My process to conclusion isn't neat and pretty. My focus was draining the swamp and never worried with an alligator or two that got in the way. Goal was to chase oal variance. In doing so it created a problem or two along the way. Problems like ejector wire were taken care of by thread conclusion.
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NippsDXer  [Member]
Could you be referring to the roller bearing and 2 washer set up that the group over at the Brian Enos forums have been using for a few years? It has been referenced here before. It works great on the 650. Unique Tek has a set up very similar for the 550 b units.

It works and does the job just like they say it will. Have fun.




Alan A posted and shared this fix/mod in June of 2009 at the Brian Enos Forums - 650 shell plate fix for snapping

The fix

Go to www.mcmaster.com and get these parts.

5909K31 1 Each Steel Needle-roller Thrust Bearing Cage Assembly For 1/2" Shaft Diameter, 15/16" Od
5909K44 2 Each .032" Thick Washer For 1/2" Shaft Diameter Steel Needle-roller Thrust Bearing

That's PARTNUMBER, QTY, DESC



FYI 650 owners - the website address to the Brian Enos forum where they have photos and thread discussing how to do this mod. The thread is quite long and it is referenced in several different topics there. It eliminates all of the unnecessary movement with the 650 shell plate which ends up giving the operator more control, precision and speed with the manufactured cartridges coming out of this well made press. It is a simple, easy and inexpensive mod. IF YOU OWN A DILLON 650 Give this a try! You WILL like it.


http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=86570&st=125&p=1420964&hl=shell%20plate%20mod&fromsearch=1&#entry1420964
1911smith  [Team Member]
This is a variation of that mod using one brass thrust bearing, one chrome washer and copper based anti-seize..... But there's more.

What ? You wanna hear all about it..... naaa, not yet.
WI57  [Team Member]
Originally Posted By 1911smith:
This is a variation of that mod using one brass thrust bearing, one chrome washer and copper based anti-seize..... But there's more.

What ? You wanna hear all about it..... naaa, not yet.


Perfecting the design?

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scatterbrains  [Member]
You can keep it to yourself i really dont want to hear about it anyway.









































Spill it
1911smith  [Team Member]
Hold on to your underwear. I'm not quite done perfecting it yet. Hopefully tomorrow.

I've not loaded anything with change done yet, Have sized and trimmed .223/556 brass. Shellplate feels solid, index smooth and have .003 variance in trim height. That pretty much translates to .003 seating variance which is pretty damn good, but.... (there it is) haven't supported underside of shellplate yet. I need to find a really thin hard plastic washer for this so shellplate isn't elevated.

There's a good explanation for not going the Enos modification. Doesn't leave much threaded on shellplate bolt and bolts like to be threaded deep as possible.

Here's what it looks like so far.




Really, I'm just waitin around for Dillon to tell me my warranty is voided.
Derek45  [Team Member]
[ skeptical ] Yawn



Like "NippsDXer" said, this is old news on the IPSC forums.


1911smith  [Team Member]
Skepticism from Derek ?? No way.


The Enos mod doesn't leave enough threads sunk. I realize I'm treading on hallowed Kool-Aid grinds here but I got news for ya. This isn't the machine everyone said it was. It has it's share of problems.

Caterpillar rep told me one time you can't do this and you can't do that. Won't work. We'll void your warranty. After he was shown the door and 1.3 miilion miles later he was proven wrong. Just like all the times someone in 1911 forum has said you can't do this or that...... still goin strong and done almost everything I've set out to do. This blue machine is just one more thing.
Derek45  [Team Member]
All kidding aside,.....your pic looks odd.

How do you have the ejector wire set up ?

I looks like you've got it UNDER the shellplate bolt.

Maybe it's the angle of your photo ????

this pic (stolen from the Benos forum thread) is what mine looks like.....



1911smith  [Team Member]
Yes its under the bolt, it's where it has to be. Sized some 700 plus .223\556 cases today at a pretty fast clip. I had one piece try and hang. With ejector wire elevated it seems to me to loose some of the integrity that base gives it. Wire needs to be sunk down pretty good. My mod keeps wire and shell plate where both belong while supporting both.

Once again, I'm not done and still experimenting. Finished product could look totally different. When curing my Hornady oal issue. Press was standing in machine shop just minutes away from switching on both mill and lathe. Everything is still on the table at this point and I'm very open to suggestions.
Derek45  [Team Member]
The ejector wire goes OVER the bolt.

Maybe this is were you're having some trouble?

Look at page 30 in the ( paper) manual, FIG 130




1911smith  [Team Member]
Nannana, no. I had ejector wire where it should have been.

What will happen when Westlakes Hardware opens in the morning. I will get another thrust bearing that fits inside the loop on ejector wire. That way it fits over thrust bearing like it would the bolt.

Shell plate has to "float". I'm accepting that, otherwise index has no room to operate and it has to maintain proper height to accept case rim from case feeder arm.

I'm attempting to support shell plate with a .002 "weeble, wobble."
Derek45  [Team Member]
My XL650 is consistent and trouble free.

I cut a turn off the spring under the ball bearing, and did the bearing mod, posted above.

my trimmed 5.56 brass is very consistent, . . . . .enough for dime sized groups at 100yrds.

If you set the shellplate up so it's almost tight, but doesn't drag, all is good.



the trimming of the spring and ball bearing mods, are only to keep powder from sloshing out of the case when it snaps into the next position.


properly adjusted, you should have little to no "weebles and wobbles"

Henny  [Team Member]
I'm with Dereck on this. On my older 650 I have the bearing mod. On my newer one that I load small primer cartridges - primarily 223, I've had no problems with consistent trimming or OAL of loaded cartridges. OP are you sure you aren't reinventing the wheel?
DIXIEDOG  [Member]
Removed, stay on topic. Topic is Dillon 650. dryflash3
Henny  [Team Member]
I just remembered a good practice that a Dillon representative told me regarding COAL problems. Always adjust the seating die with a cartridge in station #1. That way you are ensured that the tool head has full upward tension when adjusting the die.

I appreciate the desire to figure out and fix things yourself. I'm guilty of that myself! However, when it comes to the 650, there's some guys in Arizona that know more about the small nuances of the 650 than probably anyone on this board. The nice thing is, they are only a phone call away!
GlutealCleft  [Member]
Originally Posted By Henny:
OP are you sure you aren't reinventing the wheel?


Come on, it's 1911smith. His entire life revolves around reinventing the wheel, hopefully in new, better ways.
1911smith  [Team Member]
Originally Posted By Henny:
I'm with Dereck on this. On my older 650 I have the bearing mod. On my newer one that I load small primer cartridges - primarily 223, I've had no problems with consistent trimming or OAL of loaded cartridges. OP are you sure you aren't reinventing the wheel?


That's exactly what I'm avoiding here. If all I get done in the end is that, then all is not good. I was seeing swings upwards of .010. At present I'm down to .003. Still working with it.


I've been on the phone with Arizona.... one good call with a not so great answer and one not so great call with a less than stellar display of intellect. Don't ask specifics because my intent here is not to do anyone harm. Just want my problem fixed is all.

Of the three, Dillon, Hornady and Lee. Lee having placed a distant third to the others product. I can say this. Both Hornady and Dillon can take some phone lessons from Lee.


Also Henny, when you say consistant... consistant without a set of numbers covers a lot of ground.
Derek45  [Team Member]
Originally Posted By 1911smith:
Nannana, no. I had ejector wire where it should have been.
...."



stare and compare....





vs.





the ejector should just snap over the top of the shellplate bolt.
1911smith  [Team Member]
Derek, I see this and new thrust bearing takes care of that problem. Ejection isn't my issue, oal inconsitancy is and I have cut it in half over having wire as shown in your picture. Again this has nothing to do with issue. Anyway, here at hardware store now.

Thanks for your interest and if you see something of concern, please continue to speak up.
Derek45  [Team Member]
I understand OAL is your trouble....and what you're trying to get resolved.


";;;weebles and wobbles ..."
as you stated.


I can imagine having the ejector sandwiched between the bolt and shellplate could cause OAL issues.

I'm trying to help by explaining that it looks like you've assembled it incorrectly.








WI57  [Team Member]
Keep up the work, let us know if it works.
1911smith  [Team Member]
Ok, Time to put up my toys and go to work. Get them all back out next weekend.

This is as far as I got today and believe it to be the final fix. No time to try out, except I did feed a few pieces of .223 to check case feeder arm alignment to shell plate.... Perfect fit,

Pictured is what I brought home to try.


Installed.



I could have sworn plastic washers were 1/2 id. Took half inch drill bit to fit. Pictured is two thin plastic washers on bottom. On top shell plate. 1 chrome washer and 1 brass thrust bearing. Chrome has a polished surface that keeps thrust bearing operating smoothly without lubricant.



Ejector wire installed correctly and notice it's not bent down to anchor in base like with "Enos" modification. Have lots of thread sunk deep with shell plate center bolt. This is the cure, Plastic washers under shell plate give stability needed. Will give a run of 9mm a go next weekend, expecting variance to be less than .005 and closer to .003.


All parts as shown can be purchased at most hardware stores. My local is an ACE hardware dealer.*


almost forgot. Modification allows shell plate to tightened to within my required thousandths. Advisable to use Tetragrease or comparable smeared over plastic washers.
bragg8942  [Member]
any update on how it worked out also what size washers are you using thinking of giving it a try thanks.
1911smith  [Team Member]
Changing calibers from .223 to 9mm in a few minutes. Takes me 3 times longer than it would any one else doing a caliber conversion, dial in powder load, set oal, case mouth od and go.

My go to for 9mm has been Hornady AP. Breakin out a new tool head and dies for first time tonight. So ima breakin out the Diet Mountain Dew and havin a party.

* Will update after running the first hundred. *



(That's top secret code for, look for update when you wake up in the morning.)


Now, where did I put that bottle of Adderall.
Brett_Walker  [Industry Partner]
So if the ENOS mod or the UniqueTek roller bearing mod in your opinion doesn't leave enough thread engagement with the bolt, why not get a longer bolt?

I don't have a XL650, just looking at the pictures.

Brett
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