Shield 40--Dropping Mags Under Recoil?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Shield 40--Dropping Mags Under Recoil?

Posted: 7/28/2012 11:16:51 AM EDT

Anyone else seen this happen?

Posted: 7/28/2012 12:23:09 PM EDT

[#1]

Seems pretty obivous that the shooter is activating the mag release button with his trigger finger under recoil.

You'll notice that it doesn't happen when he shoots it right handed.

I have a .40 Shield and have no problem shooting it left or right, but I'm not activating the mag release either.

I don't see what he expects S&W to do. The gun is doing what it's suppose to, release the mag when the button is pushed. Maybe it's not a lefty-friendly design, or more likely it's not friendly to the way he's gripping it. He may not be able to do much about that. He's got some pretty big paws and there's not alot of real estate on the Sheild.

Posted: 7/28/2012 1:13:54 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Seems pretty obivous that the shooter is activating the mag release button with his trigger finger under recoil.

That's my initial thought as well.

Here's more info. Looks like others are having similar issues:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/259218-m-p-shield-0-40-caliber-magazine-drop-problem-poll.html

Posted: 7/28/2012 3:27:26 PM EDT

[#3]

I find it hard to believe it's not operator error.......I've got no issues with my Shield .40

Posted: 7/28/2012 4:46:55 PM EDT

[#4]

It's obviously operator error, you can see it in the video.

So far as the "jam"; the pistol attempted to load a round into the chamber while the magazine was on the way out through the grip.

Sometimes I feel as if the guys who make these videos are constantly looking for a "new and undiscovered issue" to make their Internet bones with.

Posted: 7/28/2012 4:47:24 PM EDT

[#5]

Could it be a bullet in the magazine thats hitting the mag catch on the inside as the next round moves up? I have the M&P40 Shield and the only issue I had was with my holster putting enough pressure on the release to pop the mag out when I sat down. 800+ rounds with no issues like this one in the video

Posted: 7/29/2012 6:34:52 AM EDT

[#6]

It's operator error, its as simple as that. Either he will have to learn how to properly control his trigger finger or swap the mag release to the opposite side and train around the switch. I have/can drop a mag with my trigger finger while maintaining control of the firearm. I don't know what this idiot expects S&W to do about the problem he's creating...

Posted: 7/29/2012 7:39:08 AM EDT

[#7]

I have a few hundred rounds through my .40 with zero problens....this is operator error.

Posted: 7/29/2012 7:55:33 AM EDT

[#8]

S&W is replacing mag releases on some of them. Maybe they had some that were out of spec, and combined with someone lightly brushing the release, due to their grip, the mag drops. Maybe the bullet idea isn't a bad one either. Maybe a batch bad mags.

It's .40 specific. It hasn't appeared in the 9mm's. It has to be something that's only on the .40, like the bullet idea, or the .40 mag, or recoil or something.

It's possible that S&W runs the production line in caliber. Maybe they run 9mm's for a while, then they run .40's for a while. If they do it that way, and had an out of spec mag release or mags or something during the .40 run, it would explain why it's only in the .40.

I'm leaning towards a part problem that combines with a grip issue and results in the failure. No grip issue, no failure. No part problem, no failure. Some guns end up with a part problem in the hands of people with a grip issue and results in failure.

Posted: 7/29/2012 9:51:06 AM EDT

[#9]

The magazine drop is an actual problem affecting a small percentage of S&W Shield .40 pistols and I have experienced it. Definitely NOT operator error.

S&W is aware of the issue but does not seem to have a fix yet. This is being discussed extensively at smith-wessonforum.com

Posted: 7/29/2012 11:42:30 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
The magazine drop is an actual problem affecting a small percentage of S&W Shield .40 pistols and I have experienced it. Definitely NOT operator error.

S&W is aware of the issue but does not seem to have a fix yet. This is being discussed extensively at smith-wessonforum.com

What's your S/N prefix?

The few folks that have mentioned their S/N that have problems over there at S-Wforums are two DXV and a DXX.

Mine, with a DXT S/N doesn't have the problem, and another poster over there with another DXT doesn't have it either.

I'm thinking along the lines of a bad batch of guns, mags, parts or something. If we can get the S/N prefixes of those with the problem, maybe we can figure out a trend.

Posted: 7/29/2012 12:38:55 PM EDT

[#11]

Mine is a DXX. Magazine drops every 1-2 rounds with Winchester Ranger, but rarely with WWB ammo.

What's your S/N prefix?

The few folks that have mentioned their S/N that have problems over there at S-Wforums are two DXV and a DXX.

Mine, with a DXT S/N doesn't have the problem, and another poster over there with another DXT doesn't have it either.

I'm thinking along the lines of a bad batch of guns, mags, parts or something. If we can get the S/N prefixes of those with the problem, maybe we can figure out a trend.

Posted: 7/29/2012 1:01:15 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Mine is a DXX. Magazine drops every 1-2 rounds with Winchester Ranger, but rarely with WWB ammo.

What's your S/N prefix?

The few folks that have mentioned their S/N that have problems over there at S-Wforums are two DXV and a DXX.

Mine, with a DXT S/N doesn't have the problem, and another poster over there with another DXT doesn't have it either.

I'm thinking along the lines of a bad batch of guns, mags, parts or something. If we can get the S/N prefixes of those with the problem, maybe we can figure out a trend.

Interesting that it's a DXX like the other. That is unless your's is the DXX on the thread over at Smith-Wessonforum.com.

I've asked for folks to post their S/N prefix if they have problems on Smith-Wessonforum.com. Hopefully some folks will respond like you have here and try to get a better picture of the problem.

Posted: 7/31/2012 10:15:22 AM EDT

[#13]

It's not user error. My brother and I both have one and his it doing it. Three of us tried shooting the thing and it happend to all of us. I have only shot 6 rounds through mine so I don't know if mine is doing it or not yet.

Supposidly this is more likely to happen with the 7 round mag than the 6 round mag.

Posted: 7/31/2012 10:50:42 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
It's not user error. My brother and I both have one and his it doing it. Three of us tried shooting the thing and it happend to all of us. I have only shot 6 rounds through mine so I don't know if mine is doing it or not yet.

Supposidly this is more likely to happen with the 7 round mag than the 6 round mag.

My guess is that most guys are holding the 6rd mag in place with the little finger. The 7rd mag is longer so that finger doesn't drop underneath and act as a "drop stop!"

Posted: 8/2/2012 4:26:21 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's not user error. My brother and I both have one and his it doing it. Three of us tried shooting the thing and it happend to all of us. I have only shot 6 rounds through mine so I don't know if mine is doing it or not yet.

Supposidly this is more likely to happen with the 7 round mag than the 6 round mag.

My guess is that most guys are holding the 6rd mag in place with the little finger. The 7rd mag is longer so that finger doesn't drop underneath and act as a "drop stop!"

I think you are correct.

I finally ran some rounds through mine and the 7 rnd mag dropped after two rounds. The 6 rnd mag seemed fine until I stopped putting my pinky under it and carefully wedged it in the remaing space on the grip. When I did that the 6 rnd mag dropped.

I tried firing a few rounds with the 6 while holding my pinky out so it wasn't touching any part of the gun and it didn't drop. It was only when my pinky was resting on the gap between the mag and the handle.

Posted: 8/2/2012 5:33:40 AM EDT

[#16]

I ran 200 rounds through my new Shield 40 (SN DXV....) and was dropping every once in a while. I assumed I was just bumping the release during the "snappy" recoil, but I couldn't make the intermittent problem go away. I do have great big hands.

I will be keeping a close eye on this.

Posted: 8/2/2012 7:26:38 AM EDT

[#17]

Chunky handed lefty. He's dropping the mag.

And whining ....

Posted: 8/2/2012 2:20:22 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The magazine drop is an actual problem affecting a small percentage of S&W Shield .40 pistols and I have experienced it. Definitely NOT operator error.

S&W is aware of the issue but does not seem to have a fix yet. This is being discussed extensively at smith-wessonforum.com

What's your S/N prefix?

The few folks that have mentioned their S/N that have problems over there at S-Wforums are two DXV and a DXX.

Mine, with a DXT S/N doesn't have the problem, and another poster over there with another DXT doesn't have it either.

I'm thinking along the lines of a bad batch of guns, mags, parts or something. If we can get the S/N prefixes of those with the problem, maybe we can figure out a trend.

I have a 40 with the prefix of "DXT" and I have no issues either.

Posted: 8/16/2012 6:32:56 PM EDT

[#19]

It looks as if the DXT and DXP weapons don't have issues. It is only the DXX, DXW and DXV that do. Also, if you read the thread, the earlier models have a metal mag release and the ones with issues have polymer with a metal insert.

From the thread, you will also see that as people that sent their weapons to S&W are getting them back, the magazines have been modified by pushing the metal that is right above the cutout out a little and/or different magazine releases.

Posted: 8/17/2012 5:35:07 AM EDT

[#20]

Mine is a DMX and it will drop the mag.

I called S&W this morning. The CS rep acknowledged that this is a known issue but didn't know which guns were were effected or what parts are being replaced as the fix.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 8/17/2012 11:33:52 AM EDT

[#21]

Just wanted to stop by and post that my Shield with serial number DXX hasn't shown any sign of the problems listed in this thread after 100 rounds today. Tested with one in the chamber and a fully loaded extended magazine. No problems whatsoever.

Will run another hundred through it next week for further testing.

Posted: 8/17/2012 1:12:38 PM EDT

[#22]

I had the same issue the one time I shot a baby glock. Thr recoil was making the gun slip in my hand enough that I hit the mag release every other round or so. That would be my guess on the issue.

Posted: 8/17/2012 2:48:46 PM EDT

[#23]

I've fired 100 rounds with mine with no problems.

Posted: 8/17/2012 3:34:40 PM EDT

[#24]

Mine is a DXT prefix.....Finally ran a full box of 50 target (180gr fmj) and some 180 jhp defense loads through my .40 shield...not a single issue with both 6 and 7 round mags. In fact, I freaking love this gun.

Posted: 8/18/2012 9:05:28 AM EDT

[#25]

I'm glad this isn't an issue on the M&P40 mid size and compact models. I love those guns. The Shield hasn't been out that long and it's bound to have teething problems. I hope S&W gets it figured out soon because the Shield has some real potential that I haven't seen in a while as far as compacts go...

Posted: 8/21/2012 7:56:17 PM EDT

[#26]

Just an update a few hundred rounds later and I'm still not dropping mags in a DXP. Hopefully s&w CS takes care of the ones with issues.

Posted: 8/24/2012 3:38:58 PM EDT

[#27]

My .40 Shield with the DXP serial number hasn't had an issue.

As a side note, I talked with S&W on Thursday and it sounds as if they don't even have any extra mags on hand right now.

Posted: 8/27/2012 6:50:22 PM EDT

[#28]

Mine is a DXT prefix and it was horrible! Dropping almost every round. I shot it two handed, strong hand only, weak hand only, and several other ways to completely eliminate the inadvertant mag release deppresion possibility. S&W sent me a new mag release and it appeared identical to the original and made no difference. I sent my gun back after talking with the local LEO rep for S&W. Got it back a couple weeks later with no description of what was done. I called S&W customer service and they told me they must have replaced the mag release as this is the standard repair for that issue. I was leary of that explanation so I thoroughy inspected the gun and noticed it appeared I had been sent two new magazines. I inspected the magazines and it appears S&W has flared the top of the magazine catch notch in the magazine to allow it to have more contact with the release. My guess is some of the frames are out of spec in the mag well area and punching a flare in the top of the notch of the magazine catch is cheaper than replacing frames. So far it seems to have addressed the issue but I'm wondering what happens if I ever buy more magazines.

Posted: 9/10/2012 6:44:11 AM EDT

[#29]

Acording to Shooters Supply (Louisville) I'm doing it wrong. Since I'm too f––king stupid to own a shield I traded it for a Glock at another gun store.

Funny the mags don't fall out ouf the Glock. Happy to be rid of it!

Posted: 9/10/2012 7:11:58 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Acording to Shooters Supply (Louisville) I'm doing it wrong. Since I'm too f––king stupid to own a shield I traded it for a Glock at another gun store.

Funny the mags don't fall out ouf the Glock. Happy to be rid of it!

Or you could of called S&W and had them take care of it on their dime, but oh well.

Posted: 9/10/2012 1:15:31 PM EDT

[#31]

I talked to S&W this morning. They replaced the mag catch and magazines and will be shipping the gun back tomorrow. Fingers are crossed that it's fixed...

Posted: 9/11/2012 9:27:21 AM EDT

[#32]

Incidentally it seems to be Personal Defense ammo that is the issue. My brother can shoot range ammo without issue but Hornady Critical Defense and Winchester PDX 1 cause it to drop.

And to the poster above yes I could have sent it to S&W to be fixed. That is what Shooters was supposed to be doing but they had it for over a month and didn't send it. Also it was Shooters who said bring it to them instead of going through S&W directly. I am thoroughly worn out with this issue and worn out with both Shooters for lousy customer service and S&W for apparently not testing their design before dumping it on the public.

S&W have their head in the sand on this, according to a rep from S&W it is only a percent of a percent of guns that have the issue. However Youtube and a plethora of other Internet sources are burning of with info about this issue. They have an issue but instead of stepping up they using the wow your the first person to have an issue attitude.

My theory for what it's worth, the frame is flexing during recoil from hot loads causing the mag catch which has very little engagement to loose contact with the mag.

Posted: 9/11/2012 12:21:23 PM EDT

[#33]

How can S&W gauge how bad of a problem this is if no one contacts them for warranty work and just posts about it on the internet?

Posted: 9/11/2012 2:54:51 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
How can S&W gauge how bad of a problem this is if no one contacts them for warranty work and just posts about it on the internet?

Easy, magic! Come on! You know this!

Posted: 9/14/2012 6:04:12 PM EDT

[#35]

Mine's back. Both mags now have the flared magazine catch slot. The repair ticket says the mag release was replaced too.

I haven't fired the pistol yet but I can say the mag release button now takes more travel to activate. The button has to be pushed nearly flush with the frame before a magazine will fall free.

Posted: 10/8/2012 6:20:44 PM EDT

[#36]

To update, I fired 36 rounds of hot 155gr JHP ammo through my repaired Shield this morning using the mags that S&W returned with the gun. I'm pleased to report that I had no issues with either mag dropping free.

Looks like they fixed it!

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 10/9/2012 5:16:56 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Incidentally it seems to be Personal Defense ammo that is the issue. My brother can shoot range ammo without issue but Hornady Critical Defense and Winchester PDX 1 cause it to drop.

And to the poster above yes I could have sent it to S&W to be fixed. That is what Shooters was supposed to be doing but they had it for over a month and didn't send it. Also it was Shooters who said bring it to them instead of going through S&W directly. I am thoroughly worn out with this issue and worn out with both Shooters for lousy customer service and S&W for apparently not testing their design before dumping it on the public.

S&W have their head in the sand on this, according to a rep from S&W it is only a percent of a percent of guns that have the issue. However Youtube and a plethora of other Internet sources are burning of with info about this issue. They have an issue but instead of stepping up they using the wow your the first person to have an issue attitude.

My theory for what it's worth, the frame is flexing during recoil from hot loads causing the mag catch which has very little engagement to loose contact with the mag.

Shooters is a joke. I hate that place, they are as bad as Orion aka Kielser's.

I would bet that the frame and magazine dimensions are off, thus not allowing for the mag to engage the release fully, then flexes enough when fired to drop it.

Sometimes a person's grip can manipulate controls, I have seen it happen to people that shoot Sigs for the first time, but it sounds like that there is a problem with a certain number of the 40's.

That's crap that Shooters just sat on the gun, but it does not surprise me. That place is filled with some egos.

Where is Southern Indiana are you? I'm in Clark County.

Posted: 10/13/2012 5:35:42 PM EDT

[#38]

I had this issue with my M&P 45.

The magazine catch has a bit of a flat piece that engages the cut outs on the magazine. The previous design of the magazine catch was all polymer. The newer design replaces the flat piece of the mag release with metal.

Take the slide off, look down your magwell towards the mag release, see that steel wire? Pop it out of the mag release with a screw driver or a pair of needle nose pliers and push the mag release out of the frame. If the little flat piece is plastic it may be bent out of shape or chewed up looking. I called S&W and they sent me a replacement.

ETA: Okay, here are some photos of what I am talking about. The flat piece on the older mag releases is polymer. The new ones are metal. (Steel?) I don't know. My suggestion is to pop out your mag release, and see if it is polymer and whether or not it is bent out of shape. If it is call S&W and order a new one.

Here are the old and new mag releases side by side. It's a little out of focus, but I think you cane see the differences. The arrows point to the flat piece that I mentioned above.

This is the old mag release. You can see that it is chewed up and out of line with where it should be.

Of course, I got impatient and ordered the Catalyst extended mag release off off Costa's site, and, wouldn't you know it, the release that S&W sent me free of charge showed up two days after the extened release I ordered.

ETA2: The Catalyst extended mag release is not available for the Shield (yet?).

Posted: 11/16/2012 11:10:40 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
I had this issue with my M&P 45.

The magazine catch has a bit of a flat piece that engages the cut outs on the magazine. The previous design of the magazine catch was all polymer. The newer design replaces the flat piece of the mag release with metal.

Take the slide off, look down your magwell towards the mag release, see that steel wire? Pop it out of the mag release with a screw driver or a pair of needle nose pliers and push the mag release out of the frame. If the little flat piece is plastic it may be bent out of shape or chewed up looking. I called S&W and they sent me a replacement.

ETA: Okay, here are some photos of what I am talking about. The flat piece on the older mag releases is polymer. The new ones are metal. (Steel?) I don't know. My suggestion is to pop out your mag release, and see if it is polymer and whether or not it is bent out of shape. If it is call S&W and order a new one.

Here are the old and new mag releases side by side. It's a little out of focus, but I think you cane see the differences. The arrows point to the flat piece that I mentioned above.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ILTss6f-9KA/UHogpOjlEWI/AAAAAAAABxk/pzJwHJVEqBk/s678/magreleasesoldnew.png

This is the old mag release. You can see that it is chewed up and out of line with where it should be.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-C4k309o_29E/UHognCbzfyI/AAAAAAAABxc/U-gPoIQJpNw/s609/magreleasesold.png

Of course, I got impatient and ordered the Catalyst extended mag release off off Costa's site, and, wouldn't you know it, the release that S&W sent me free of charge showed up two days after the extened release I ordered.

ETA2: The Catalyst extended mag release is not available for the Shield (yet?).

The shield mag releases are and have always been metal. That reminds me of a problem I was having with the all polymer followers on my Wilson combat 8rd 1911 mags. The slide release/lock lever would chew up the polymer on follower where it pushes up on the lever. Why I'm a big fan of Tripp Cobra mags with the metal insert in the follower. Although I have nothing against polymer/plastics, some parts are best left in good ole metal.