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Posted: 10/24/2014 1:19:39 AM EDT
First off, hello! Obviously new here, but far from a green horn when it comes to firearms in general or the AR platform in particular. Got a half dozen assembled ARs at the moment, parts for others, and then there are those that I've sold or traded off. I'm a huge fan of the platform, consider Gene Stoner to be a first rate genius in firearm design. It's just too bad he didn't live quite long enough to really see his rifle explode in popularity among the civilian market.
Anyway, while I've assembled a number of rifles from parts and milled out quite a few eighty percenters, this build is a little more ambitious, and a lot more involved. First I'll show ya'll where it sits right this minute: 
I know, natural finish, a couple of cosmetic flaws, goofy looking magazine, right? Well, allow me to explain: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 
That is a normal 5.56 size AR receiver on top |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 1:21:20 AM EDT
[#1]
I'm just ending week 3 of this build, still have a long, loooong way to go. Chambering is going to be .17 Mach 2, for which I still need to procure a barrel to modify. I have not yet made: Barrel nut/Delta ring ( will be one piece), front sight, flash hider, forward HG retainer, hand guards, charging handle, stock, faux gas key, buffer, bolt catch, magazine catch, extractor, ejector and firing pin.
This is where it all started with a piece of .860" 7075-T6 on Sunday, October 5th: 
Carving trigger, hammer, disconnector out of D2 tool steel: 
Installed, and RE housing threaded (5/8-24): 
Unfortunately, I totally forgot any pics while I was carving out the selector. Oh well. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 1:22:11 AM EDT
[#2]
Moving on, now time to get after the 6061-T651 upper half:
Threading the barrel housing before cutting away too much material, which would risk tweaking the piece: 
Starting to show signs of life: 
In the rough: 
The pint sized homogenous bolt/carrier I cut from an air hammer chisel. Should last forever, but it was slow going. This super tough, super hard alloy destroyed a half dozen carbide end mills and over 20 HSS, TiAlN and cobalt drill bits 
In the upper, as I try to gauge depth for the modified Savage Mk II mag that will be used until I get around to making a forming die to do scale magazines: 
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Posted: 10/24/2014 1:22:45 AM EDT
[#3]
Today was receiver extension day. Also cut from 7075-T6, this is how the bulk of it is formed:
Using a 7" long 3/8" carbide end mill and trying to keep the piece rigid enough to avoid chatter proved futile. I just resigned myself to the fact that there would be a couple blemishes that even 2+ hours of hand finishing wouldn't remove. It will be a fully functional 6 pos M4 stock, which I will be carving out of ABS as I did the grip. So that's about it for now. When completed, it will be a 50% scale blow-back operated pistol. I say pistol, because the stock will obvisouly be useless at only 5.2" fully extended. Hopefully ATF will agree with me and allow this to be a title I handgun rather than forcing me to register another SBR. We shall see! Anywho, nice to meet ya'll, and I'll update this thread as progress continues! |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 1:27:13 AM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:02:03 AM EDT
[#5]
How long will the barrel be? I see you have a tube set up for a car stock, so I assume it will be 16" or SBR?
It is amazing. Are you just milling free style or useing a computer program? |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 4:23:38 AM EDT
[#6]
Wow
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Posted: 10/24/2014 8:41:26 AM EDT
[#7]
Amazing.
I hope you SBR it, so it stays in proportion. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 9:12:35 AM EDT
[#8]
WOW i just saw a link to this on the akfiles, amazing work man i look forward to seeing the finished product
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Posted: 10/24/2014 9:16:15 AM EDT
[#9]
in one of the other threads i remeber he sent a letter in to the atf to exempt it seeing as its to small to sholder its being designed as a pistol, i hope they ok it
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Posted: 10/24/2014 10:22:11 AM EDT
[#10]
Mind blown that is amazing
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Posted: 10/24/2014 10:33:25 AM EDT
[#11]
How long will the barrel be? I see you have a tube set up for a car stock, so I assume it will be 16" or SBR? 7.25". I'm going for pistol classification, but I'll SBR if I have to. Are you just milling free style or useing a computer program? 100% manual equipment. I'm using blueprints and halving them where I can, reverse engineering the rest from 1:1 parts. 90% of the machine work is being done on my Lagun FTV2 mill with a Palmgren 6" swivel vise and a Troyke 12" compound cross slide rotary table: 
Even with all the ways I can angle the work piece and the mill head, there is still quite a bit of hand profiling with die grinders, dremels, hand files and sanding stones. I have a little more finish work to do on just about every piece, but they're all 98% done. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 10:45:26 AM EDT
[#12]
That's awesome
 . In for updates...
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Posted: 10/24/2014 12:41:22 PM EDT
[#13]
Does the fact you are using a mini carbine buffer tube effect the status of the build as a pistol?
I'm not asking to be a dick it's just a legitimate question. I'm sure you can't mount a standard stock to it so I'm guessing the point may be moot anyway. If you ever want to sell this thing btw id take it off of you that's cool as hell Also can you explain a little more in depth about how he bolt works? |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 1:25:00 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does the fact you are using a mini carbine buffer tube effect the status of the build as a pistol? I'm not asking to be a dick it's just a legitimate question. I'm sure you can't mount a standard stock to it so I'm guessing the point may be moot anyway. If you ever want to sell this thing btw id take it off of you that's cool as hell Also can you explain a little more in depth about how he bolt works? Perfectly fine to use a carbine receiver extension as long as you don't have a scale stock sitting in the safe next to it! 
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Posted: 10/24/2014 1:50:42 PM EDT
[#15]
are you running this as a 556? or is that a .300 blk?
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:48:20 PM EDT
[#16]
.17HMR2
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:15:12 PM EDT
[#17]
By far the coolest AR-15 project I've ever seen. I've been at this since 1981. That's more than 33 years. Your project is just amazing. -W
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:31:53 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
are you running this as a 556? or is that a .300 blk? Quote HistoryQuoted:
are you running this as a 556? or is that a .300 blk? Quoted:
.17HMR2 Quoted:
I'm just ending week 3 of this build, still have a long, loooong way to go. Chambering is going to be .17 Mach 2, .17 Mach 2 is based on 22LR. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 4:02:03 PM EDT
[#19]
Perfectly fine to use a carbine receiver extension as long as you don't have a scale stock sitting in the safe next to it! Pretty much. As it were, since I don't have a barrel made yet, a stock wouldn't be a problem, either. Constructive possession with SBR/SBS has never really been prosecutable anyway. Unlike having a MG receiver, which is contraband in and of itself, the individual components that could comprise an SBR or SBS are all 100% legal, so long as they're not assembled into a title II configuration without 'da stamp'. Basically, a prosecutor would have to prove that you configured the parts into an unregistered title II weapon. Otherwise, they'd be able to prosecute anyone who owned a long gun and a hack saw. Also can you explain a little more in depth about how he bolt works? It's a solid piece, will work in the same manner as any other blow back rimfire bolt. The reduced head diameter and locking lugs are aesthetic only. are you running this as a 556? or is that a .300 blk? Receiver pictured with 5.56 round: 
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Posted: 10/24/2014 4:39:33 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty much. As it were, since I don't have a barrel made yet, a stock wouldn't be a problem, either. Constructive possession with SBR/SBS has never really been prosecutable anyway. Unlike having a MG receiver, which is contraband in and of itself, the individual components that could comprise an SBR or SBS are all 100% legal, so long as they're not assembled into a title II configuration without 'da stamp'. Basically, a prosecutor would have to prove that you configured the parts into an unregistered title II weapon. Otherwise, they'd be able to prosecute anyone who owned a long gun and a hack saw. It's a solid piece, will work in the same manner as any other blow back rimfire bolt. The reduced head diameter and locking lugs are aesthetic only. Receiver pictured with 5.56 round: http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/Hunter2506/Machining%20projects/b982230e-7dbd-4834-85a6-8325af9533ff_zpsa3558a25.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Perfectly fine to use a carbine receiver extension as long as you don't have a scale stock sitting in the safe next to it! Pretty much. As it were, since I don't have a barrel made yet, a stock wouldn't be a problem, either. Constructive possession with SBR/SBS has never really been prosecutable anyway. Unlike having a MG receiver, which is contraband in and of itself, the individual components that could comprise an SBR or SBS are all 100% legal, so long as they're not assembled into a title II configuration without 'da stamp'. Basically, a prosecutor would have to prove that you configured the parts into an unregistered title II weapon. Otherwise, they'd be able to prosecute anyone who owned a long gun and a hack saw. Also can you explain a little more in depth about how he bolt works? It's a solid piece, will work in the same manner as any other blow back rimfire bolt. The reduced head diameter and locking lugs are aesthetic only. are you running this as a 556? or is that a .300 blk? Receiver pictured with 5.56 round: http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/Hunter2506/Machining%20projects/b982230e-7dbd-4834-85a6-8325af9533ff_zpsa3558a25.jpg Going through your photo bucket phots, I noticed you machined a tiny V8 and crankshaft. Did you finish it? And, more importantly, does it work? |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 4:40:27 PM EDT
[#21]
That's a awesome project and awesome machining work! Great job and really looking forward to more progress pics!
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Posted: 10/24/2014 8:11:18 PM EDT
[#22]
Going through your photo bucket phots, I noticed you machined a tiny V8 and crankshaft. Did you finish it? And, more importantly, does it work? No, that one never got much further. I made a couple more parts for it, but that critter was really just proof of concept. I started with a block too small to make proper deck height, the crank was cut from a grade 8 bolt (not stress relieved, warped after machining) and, more than anything, model engine sizes tend to be limited by ignition and fuel atomization. I do not have the ability to make ceramic spark plugs, so am stuck buying the smallest available, which are nearly as big as the bores in that micro motor. Also, at that displacement, it would probably not be able to function properly on gasoline. I do intend to make a functional 1/8 scale V8 based on the Chrysler 440, but that project is on hold until I'm motivated enough to disassemble and reverse engineer the one I have on a stand in the garage. Neither Chrysler nor 440source.com ever responded to my requests for blueprints. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 9:46:17 PM EDT
[#23]
the work you have done so far is amazing.
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Posted: 10/24/2014 10:06:08 PM EDT
[#24]
Tag.
Very cool to see something different. Can't wait until it's done. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 10:26:36 PM EDT
[#25]
Amazing.
Thanks for sharing this with us. That's real talent you have there. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 10:49:54 PM EDT
[#26]
Thanks for explaining the bolt :) I saw it was a solid piece and was wondering about the aesthetic parts. I'm really very excited to see this completed.
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Posted: 10/25/2014 12:39:22 AM EDT
[#27]
Got take down pins and gas key done today. Gas key is cut from D2 tool steel, and I was appropriately mortified to drill & tap the carrier for the #2-56 socket head screws. Several drills and 2 taps later, I finally got it attached:
I'll do some clean up on it later, just wanted to get it on first. Might have had to start all over if I hadn't been able to cut the broken taps out of the bolt carrier with a 0.058" carbide and mill. Removing broken taps sucks. Removing broken miniature machine screw taps from hardened & tempered tool steel sucks a lot more. The pins went much smoother. Started out with 1-1/2" #6-32 socket head screws, just reprofiled and sized them on the lathe. Cutting the 0.032" slots for the detent pins was fun, though. The detent pins and springs are from wrist watch band spring bars. 1.5mm spring bars had exactly the 1.0mm springs I needed to fir the 0.040" holes. 
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Posted: 10/25/2014 8:06:06 AM EDT
[#28]
Still very highly impressed keep this up. What's your estimated time to completion? Just whenever u get it done?
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Posted: 10/25/2014 2:07:26 PM EDT
[#29]
What's your estimated time to completion? Just whenever u get it done? Basically. I make time to work on it whenever I can, but manufacturing complex one-off parts is very labor intensive. At this point, I've probably got 85-90 hours in it, and I would say I'm about 40% done. I'll probably have it together by Thanksgiving, but totally finished and running right may well go into springtime. The barrel is a hang-up; not much out there for .17 HM2 barrels on the cheap, so I'm stuck either buying a .17 HMR barrel and rechambering or shelling out ~$250 for a Clark. Also have to wait for an answer from ATF before attaching a real barrel. Will probably cut a mock display barrel from mild steel if I don't have my answer by the time the rest of the parts are made. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 8:18:36 PM EDT
[#30]
I know your going for realism...but what about just making it a pistol instead of going the SBR route (depending on the ATF answer). In addition, even if you have an ATF letter, some states' DOJ will make separate determinations that are stricter than the Feds. For instance, California. Many here are hesitatant to use the Sig Pistol Brace because the CADOJ may not care about the Fed determination.
Just a though... matel |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 8:44:17 PM EDT
[#31]
Wow
When do you plan to start making the magazines dies ?
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Posted: 10/25/2014 9:53:41 PM EDT
[#32]
Amazing work. It reminds me of my uncle that used to do stuff like this. He started out building guns for fun in army machine shops on Sundays during training, and actually built a .22 pistol with a functional Garand action.
I look forward to seeing the rest of the built, thanks so much for sharing with us. Once again, amazing work! |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 12:08:53 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
are you running this as a 556? or is that a .300 blk? Oh yeah? |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 12:43:34 PM EDT
[#34]
Got the charging handle done late last night. That ended up being a lot more work than anticipated, with a lot of careful fitting to get everything sliding smoothly. about 6 hours all in. I did goof a little and overran my numbers where the rear should be profiled to fit the horizontal cut in the receiver, but it will not affect function and is barely noticeable. After what I went through, I'm not inclined to redo the thing right now. The handle is also a tad thinner than scale; I didn't want to cut the receiver extension housing down any further, and a 4140 steel handle can be trimmer than an aluminum one.
The handle is cut from 4140 chromoly stock, the latch is spring steel, using a 0.041" drill bit for a pin and a 0.055" coil spring. I only blued the rear of it, as the bluing will wear off wherever it contacts the receiver anyway. 
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Posted: 10/26/2014 2:28:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Every time you update this thread you make me a happy man. Really neat work keep it up!
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Posted: 10/26/2014 6:46:08 PM EDT
[#36]
This is a completely amazing build. So as far as furniture for it, will those be machined from al or steel or will you go another route?
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Posted: 10/26/2014 8:09:31 PM EDT
[#37]
I want one of those tiny charging handles as a keychain/christmas tree ornament.
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Posted: 10/26/2014 8:38:46 PM EDT
[#38]
Any chance you are near Georgia.......I'd like to buy you a beer .........that is some serious talent displayed there. Shoot me an email if you need any drawings, I have a significant accurate drawing collection that I'd be happy to help you out with. Truly impressive work
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Posted: 10/26/2014 9:56:43 PM EDT
[#39]
Thats amazing. I wish I had that kind of talent and patients.. Cant way to see it finished.
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Posted: 10/27/2014 2:06:48 AM EDT
[#40]
Today was productive. Ran into a snag when I couldn't find my #3-56 die, but the trip across town to A&A Tradin' post (shout out to those guys, BTW. A REAL hardware store with actual hardware and staff that knows hardware) proved fruitful, as I was able to find my 15/32"x6" buffer springs.
Anyway, got the buffer detent, buffer, magazine catch and barrel nut done today. Not sure if I'm gonna run this nut or redo it, though; it was a 5/8x1" steel spacer, so there will only be a 1/16" shoulder for the barrel flange. If I use it, I'll put a cut across the face for a spanner wrench, and the hand guards will be one piece that slide over the barrel before the front sight is attached. I also still need to stick a piece of acetyl in the back of the buffer, but that's not a big deal. Haven't decided if I'll put the triangle cuts on the front of it, either; larger bearing surface without them. I did have to make the buffer detent pin twice; shot it across the garage, and a 1/8"x5/16" piece of steel launched across my shop is a gonner. I'd have spent more time looking than redoing. Anywho: 
And one with a round sitting on the bolt face just for fun: 
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Posted: 10/27/2014 2:08:11 AM EDT
[#41]
So as far as furniture for it, will those be machined from al or steel or will you go another route? The stock and hand guard will be ABS like the grip. Easy to work with, and I have tons of the stuff. I want one of those tiny charging handles as a keychain/christmas tree ornament. Well, there's an idea. Of course, I'd probably CAD/CAM a program for my friend's Fadal 2216 CNC VMC and do them in aluminum if production were the name of the game. This 4140 chromoly piece took about 7 hours with fitting. I hate CAD/CAM, and CNC really isn't any faster for one-off stuff. But there is no other way to do it for production. Any chance you are near Georgia.......I'd like to buy you a beer .........that is some serious talent displayed there. Shoot me an email if you need any drawings, I have a significant accurate drawing collection that I'd be happy to help you out with. Truly impressive work Nah, I'm in CO. Was down your way in '07, though, when I picked this up from Warner-Robins AFB: 
And thanks for the offer on drawings. Wish I'd known ya sooner; I've had to reverse-engineer everything but the receiver halves. Not many parts left to do at this point, and the bolt catch & front sight will not be 1/2 scale in every respect due to the savage magazines, and I won't be turning the barrel down to 9/32" with a 3/8" diameter where the FSB goes. More like .420" with .450" at the FSB. |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 12:46:44 PM EDT
[#42]
stock V1.0. Couple of blems due to the stock moving in the vise, and on account of my freehanding much of the profile without measurements and having a difficult time seeing with the chips that didn't come completely free of the piece while cutting. Might redo it, but I think it looks OK for now. That's a G20 on top.
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Posted: 10/28/2014 1:19:05 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
stock V1.0. Couple of blems due to the stock moving in the vise, and on account of my freehanding much of the profile without measurements and having a difficult time seeing with the chips that didn't come completely free of the piece while cutting. Might redo it, but I think it looks OK for now. That's a G20 on top. http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/Hunter2506/Machining%20projects/AR-75ATFpic_zps3fca88bf.jpg any word from the atf yet? i may have waited on the stock till last but it still looks good |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 1:45:22 PM EDT
[#44]
any word from the atf yet? i may have waited on the stock till last but it still looks good I just sent the letter. Decided to build the stock first so that I could include a photograph showing the truly diminutive scale and useless nature of the stock, as well as give a final, to-the-decimal accurate dimension for stock length. The picture above is the one that went with the letter. I feel that it gives one a very good idea of the size we're dealing with. No human being with normal joints and ligaments would be able to shoulder and fire this thing as a rifle, let alone crane their head over far enough to look through sights mounted on it. This critter makes a Davy Cricket .22 seem gigantic; it is to a normal rifle about what a full size AR carbine is to an Anzio Ironworks 20mm. |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 2:37:50 PM EDT
[#45]
lol my moms a dwarf so she could prolly sholder it but best of luck to ya
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Posted: 10/28/2014 2:45:40 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryDouble
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Posted: 10/28/2014 3:29:06 PM EDT
[#47]
lol my moms a dwarf so she could prolly sholder it but best of luck to ya Haha. Unless she's truly a 1/2 scale person, it would still be awkward at best. Obviously I have tried to put it to my shoulder, and found that there is simply no way to properly grasp the grip or get one's face anywhere near the sight plane. My wrists do not bend 90* perpendicular to the flexion/extension axis, and I cannot lay my ear flat on my clavicle. I doubt anyone but but perhaps a tiny handful of contortionists in the world could. |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 3:39:37 PM EDT
[#48]
This is an extremely cool build. Following along closely, hope to see it finished and the ATF cool with it.
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Posted: 10/28/2014 4:17:46 PM EDT
[#49]
This is Awesome. Great work!
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Posted: 10/28/2014 5:49:46 PM EDT
[#50]
OST
Awesome work man!!! cant wait for more updates and a range report video!!! |
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