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Posted: 5/5/2012 4:24:04 PM EDT
[#1]
55gr Federal FMJ? The Wal-mart stuff? =D
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Posted: 5/5/2012 6:05:39 PM EDT
[#2]
I would love to see the Privi 69gr Match tested
I know the 75gr was done by Molon, but im very curious about the 69gr as it can be fired accurately from the common 1:9" twist .223 bolt guns (and AR's) |
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Posted: 5/5/2012 7:28:51 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
So i spent nearly 5 hours today constructing a proper 7x7x20" mold for my gel. This time we should not have any issues with over penetration and not being able to find the projectile. Possible Tests: (suggestions welcome) ––5.56 75gr Tap copy (using T1c projectile) ––5.56 M855 Copy (pulled ss109 going 3000fps) ––Nosler 77gr Projectile ––M856 Projectile, I cannot load these to 5.56 velocities Now Stump70 sent me projectile from last time around which we never got to. I believe there is gold dot 64gr fusion 62gr and a TSX in there. We will have to try those out. I also found gel that is guaranteed to be 250 bloom. I'm going to do my best to make this as close to 10% ordinance gel as possible. First thing I need to do is find a cheap scale that can handle at least 10lbs Here is a link to last go around's tests Sure it wasn't a Mk 318? I usually don't get TSX. Is there data on 62gr TBBC? Can send a few. Have a few 50gr frangible. Can send some 109's. Thanks for the effort. |
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Posted: 5/6/2012 9:28:05 AM EDT
[#4]
Stump,
I just looked and I have 2x 62gr TBBC's, 2x MK318, 3x 62gr Fusion, 3x 64gr Gold Dots I really appreciate your generosity,but would you allow me to pay you for 25 of each of these projectiles? I would really like to work some loads up to get them up to around their factory velocities. I would also be willing to buy 25 of the frangible off of you too. I have a bunch of M856 projectiles, Midway was selling them for $52 per 1000 
Thanks! Also there is one rule in this thread. NO BITCHING! I just sold some stuff for $125 and spent $150 total on the mold and 15lbs of gelatin. |
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Posted: 5/6/2012 9:52:58 AM EDT
[#5]
Here is the overbuilt mold....Internal dimensions: 7x9x20" (WxHxL) I added 2 extra inches height wise so I dont spill.
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Posted: 5/7/2012 4:51:09 PM EDT
[#6]
I would like to see the same rounds tested as in round one, but at 100+ yards.
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Posted: 5/7/2012 5:55:45 PM EDT
[#7]
If you get around to making this gel-report a semi-regular thing, I'd be willing to ship a couple rounds of the Russian stuff to you. I know there have occasionally been "how good is it" threads. Be interesting to see how it stacks up against other FMJ projectiles (M193 being my first thought). And is M856 the tracers? I have a few from PSA.
Thanks. 
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Posted: 5/7/2012 5:58:13 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
If you get around to making this gel-report a semi-regular thing, I'd be willing to ship a couple rounds of the Russian stuff to you. I know there have occasionally been "how good is it" threads. Be interesting to see how it stacks up against other FMJ projectiles (M193 being my first thought). And is M856 the tracers? I have a few from PSA. Thanks. Thanks I have all kinds of Russian ammo. The M856 projectiles are the current 5.56 tracer. Right now I'm fighting with my mold, the caulk I used to seal it is not drying. I just tried a different brand, if that doesnt work Its getting the JB weld treatment. |
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Posted: 5/7/2012 6:52:49 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Stump, I just looked and I have 2x 62gr TBBC's, 2x MK318, 3x 62gr Fusion, 3x 64gr Gold Dots I really appreciate your generosity,but would you allow me to pay you for 25 of each of these projectiles? I would really like to work some loads up to get them up to around their factory velocities. I would also be willing to buy 25 of the frangible off of you too. I have a bunch of M856 projectiles, Midway was selling them for $52 per 1000
Thanks! Also there is one rule in this thread. NO BITCHING! I just sold some stuff for $125 and spent $150 total on the mold and 15lbs of gelatin. Bah! Anybody paying you for materials? Least I can do for the advancement of science.
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Posted: 5/7/2012 7:11:56 PM EDT
[#10]
I'm doing this on my own accord, I ask no one to give me anything. I just ask that someone pray the range is empty when I show up!
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Posted: 5/7/2012 7:52:30 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
So i spent nearly 5 hours today constructing a proper 7x7x20" mold for my gel. This time we should not have any issues with over penetration and not being able to find the projectile. Possible Tests: (suggestions welcome) ––5.56 75gr Tap copy (using T1c projectile) No need since its been tested to death. ––5.56 M855 Copy (pulled ss109 going 3000fps) Its pretty much been proven to be an under performer ––Nosler 77gr Projectile No one buys this stuff but reloaders, loaded ammo is pretty much non existent ––M856 Projectile, I cannot load these to 5.56 velocities Its a tracer, what more can I say ––9mm 124gr Gold Dot going 1200fps Lots of testing has also been done on this load. Now Stump70 sent me projectile from last time around which we never got to. I believe there is gold dot 64gr fusion 62gr and a 62gr TBBCin there. We will have to try those out. I also found gel that is guaranteed to be 250 bloom. I'm going to do my best to make this as close to 10% ordinance gel as possible. First thing I need to do is find a cheap scale that can handle at least 10lbs Here is a link to last go around's tests I would say focus on the new barrier blind hotness like Mk318, gold dot, fusion, FBIT3 ect. |
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Posted: 5/7/2012 8:01:03 PM EDT
[#12]
I would like to see this duplicated from an unbiased source just as backup.
ETA at 300 yards to duplicate the 20 inches of penetration. 
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Posted: 5/7/2012 8:54:46 PM EDT
[#13]
I wish I had .300 blackout, but I dont. Plus any range over 100 yards is hours away. This area sucks so "long" range shooting.
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Posted: 5/8/2012 6:24:24 AM EDT
[#14]
IM sent
Carl |
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Posted: 5/8/2012 8:18:03 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
I wish I had .300 blackout, but I dont. Plus any range over 100 yards is hours away. This area sucks so "long" range shooting. Can you at LEAST do the 100 yards though? |
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Posted: 5/8/2012 8:25:06 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I wish I had .300 blackout, but I dont. Plus any range over 100 yards is hours away. This area sucks so "long" range shooting. Can you at LEAST do the 100 yards though? Sure. I can do the 77gr Nosler at 50 and 100 yards. Just realize that I can only do one test at a time, and its going to be 6+ days between each test. |
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Posted: 5/8/2012 9:45:54 AM EDT
[#17]
On the .300 BLK with the 110gr Barnes, download the ammo to the appropriate impact velocity for both the 16 inch, and the 9 inch barrel. I'm sure someone you know has one.
It would be 1574fps from a 16" barrel. * From the Barnes website. It would be 1360fps from a 9" barrel. * I took a range of estimates from several sites to include hand loads since I couldn't find anything on the 9" with that weight bullet. I found plenty of 10.5" stuff, that showed a high of 2200fps and a low of 2020fps. I split the difference at 2100fps. If someone has actual numbers on the 9" that would be better. Also, if you would. Get a bone and stick in there a for a couple of shots with it. |
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Posted: 5/8/2012 6:16:36 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I wish I had .300 blackout, but I dont. Plus any range over 100 yards is hours away. This area sucks so "long" range shooting. Can you at LEAST do the 100 yards though? Sure. I can do the 77gr Nosler at 50 and 100 yards. Just realize that I can only do one test at a time, and its going to be 6+ days between each test. I'd rather see the bonded rounds at 100 yards. It's well known that the 77 frags at long distances. |
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Posted: 5/9/2012 7:32:51 PM EDT
[#19]
Had a little road bump...
I used "Kitchen and Bath Adhesive Caulk" to attach the plastic sides and seal them. Well as soon as I did that it got really humid and has been humid/raining non stop all week. The damn sides were basically peeling off. So I had to rip everything apart and clean everything. I picked up some maritime epoxy. It will harden underwater so we are good! But I'm taking my time and doing it the right way. Just put in the bottom piece. I needed a lot of weight evenly distributed. Nothing better then loaded ammo and projectiles... 
This little guy was hiding under the car in the driveway watching me the whole time as I was cleaning and sanding everything. 
I'm hoping to have the mold done by Saturday, and a block ready to go for Monday. 15lbs of 250 bloom gelatine showed up. 
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Posted: 5/9/2012 7:52:09 PM EDT
[#20]
you have anything in 762x39?
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Posted: 5/9/2012 7:54:45 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
you have anything in 762x39? Only wolf and Yugo brass cased, and I dont reload 7.62x62x39 |
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Posted: 5/10/2012 7:34:38 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Possible Tests: (suggestions welcome) ––5.56 75gr Tap copy (using T1c projectile) ––5.56 M855 Copy (pulled ss109 going 3000fps) ––Nosler 77gr Projectile ––M856 Projectile, I cannot load these to 5.56 velocities ––9mm 124gr Gold Dot going 1200fps Now Stump70 sent me projectile from last time around which we never got to. I believe there is gold dot 64gr fusion 62gr and a 62gr TBBCin there. We will have to try those out. I also found gel that is guaranteed to be 250 bloom. I'm going to do my best to make this as close to 10% ordinance gel as possible. First thing I need to do is find a cheap scale that can handle at least 10lbs I wouldn't bother with M855, M856, or the 124gr GDHP. There are plenty of known data points on those. I'd be most curious about the 75gr TAP copy, the Nosler 77 (although there are some shots of that I think). While the 64gr Fusion and 62gr TBBC are interesting, we know they're proven performers that expand and penetrate deeply. |
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Posted: 5/10/2012 7:35:04 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Quoted: you have anything in 762x39? Only wolf and Yugo brass cased, and I dont reload 7.62x62x39 How about Z-MAX? I could send you some... |
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Posted: 5/10/2012 7:40:07 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Possible Tests: (suggestions welcome) ––5.56 75gr Tap copy (using T1c projectile) ––5.56 M855 Copy (pulled ss109 going 3000fps) ––Nosler 77gr Projectile ––M856 Projectile, I cannot load these to 5.56 velocities ––9mm 124gr Gold Dot going 1200fps Now Stump70 sent me projectile from last time around which we never got to. I believe there is gold dot 64gr fusion 62gr and a 62gr TBBCin there. We will have to try those out. I also found gel that is guaranteed to be 250 bloom. I'm going to do my best to make this as close to 10% ordinance gel as possible. First thing I need to do is find a cheap scale that can handle at least 10lbs I wouldn't bother with M855, M856, or the 124gr GDHP. There are plenty of known data points on those. I'd be most curious about the 75gr TAP copy, the Nosler 77 (although there are some shots of that I think). While the 64gr Fusion and 62gr TBBC are interesting, we know they're proven performers that expand and penetrate deeply. UMMM...... more like we know that 75 grain tap and 77 grain Nosler fragment out to 600 yards, with confirmed effectiveness in Iraq at those distances.... If there are two bullets we DON'T need to see a redundant long range test on its those. There is no long range expansion tests, or even reports, of ANY bonded .223 rounds that I am aware of. This would be breaking new ground here! Not the same old same old rehashed stuff. |
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Posted: 5/10/2012 8:38:22 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
UMMM...... more like we know that 75 grain tap and 77 grain Nosler fragment out to 600 yards, with confirmed effectiveness in Iraq at those distances.... If there are two bullets we DON'T need to see a redundant long range test on its those. There is no long range expansion tests, or even reports, of ANY bonded .223 rounds that I am aware of. This would be breaking new ground here! Not the same old same old rehashed stuff. Do you have a source/citation for that 600 yard frag range on 75/77gr rounds? |
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Posted: 5/10/2012 10:04:10 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
you have anything in 762x39? Only wolf and Yugo brass cased, and I dont reload 7.62x62x39 How about Z-MAX? I could send you some... Sure I would be willing to do that. I want to do a one or two of the "redundant" tests to compare the actual gel I'm using. Plus 99.9% of the ammo I have is reloads, and I mainly reload M193/SS109s/124gr Gold Dots. One of these days I might take a trip up to cabelas and see what kind of odd ammo I can find. I also want to redo the Silver Bear/WPA JHP test. Because noone has even thought to do a test on that stuff. |
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Posted: 5/10/2012 12:04:41 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
you have anything in 762x39? Only wolf and Yugo brass cased, and I dont reload 7.62x62x39 How about Z-MAX? I could send you some... Sure I would be willing to do that. I want to do a one or two of the "redundant" tests to compare the actual gel I'm using. Plus 99.9% of the ammo I have is reloads, and I mainly reload M193/SS109s/124gr Gold Dots. One of these days I might take a trip up to cabelas and see what kind of odd ammo I can find. I also want to redo the Silver Bear/WPA JHP test. Because noone has even thought to do a test on that stuff. i'd like to send you some uly 762x39 with the 8m3 bullet and some prvi 223 75gr match to test out. shoot me a pm. |
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Posted: 5/10/2012 12:11:04 PM EDT
[#28]
Would you happen to have a .308 to test?
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Posted: 5/10/2012 12:31:44 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Would you happen to have a .308 to test? Used to have a FAL, not anymore.... Sorry! |
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Posted: 5/10/2012 12:49:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Drat
 Well, in that case, I still look forward to the other 5.56 tests |
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Posted: 5/10/2012 1:02:30 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
you have anything in 762x39? Only wolf and Yugo brass cased, and I dont reload 7.62x62x39 How about Z-MAX? I could send you some... Sure I would be willing to do that. I want to do a one or two of the "redundant" tests to compare the actual gel I'm using. Plus 99.9% of the ammo I have is reloads, and I mainly reload M193/SS109s/124gr Gold Dots. One of these days I might take a trip up to cabelas and see what kind of odd ammo I can find. I also want to redo the Silver Bear/WPA JHP test. Because noone has even thought to do a test on that stuff. i'd like to send you some uly 762x39 with the 8m3 bullet and some prvi 223 75gr match to test out. shoot me a pm. The 8m3, what ammo does that come in? I might have it already. |
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Posted: 5/10/2012 1:07:54 PM EDT
[#32]
My votes are for silver bear 62 grain and federal fusion @ 100 yards.
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Posted: 5/10/2012 4:25:04 PM EDT
[#33]
How about the Sierra 65 gr gameking? I've never really seem anything testing wise on that bullet at all.
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Posted: 5/10/2012 6:03:58 PM EDT
[#34]
OP, if you can get access to a .308 rifle I have some loads that I can send you.
I have a few 168FGMM factory in box. I also have 147gr FN .308, and 150gr Privi 30-06 pulls. Both are accurate for what they are, especially the FN. They are loaded with 44.5gr of IMR 4064. So it isn't a hot load or anywhere near that. That was my load for my FAL, M1A, and my LR 308. IMR 4064 seems to work very well in gas guns. Also, I have hand loads in both the 168gr SMK, and the 175gr SMK. Both are loaded with IMR 4064, with 43.0- or 43.5gr. I don't remember for sure exactly, but it's in my load book. I'd like to see how they perform. Now, I would of course, send them to you with the expectation that you break them down, and check everything. I will shoot them in my guns, ( well, if I had a .308 now), but I'm a little iffy about my hand loads in other folks guns. |
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Posted: 5/10/2012 7:23:28 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
you have anything in 762x39? Only wolf and Yugo brass cased, and I dont reload 7.62x62x39 How about Z-MAX? I could send you some... Sure I would be willing to do that. I want to do a one or two of the "redundant" tests to compare the actual gel I'm using. Plus 99.9% of the ammo I have is reloads, and I mainly reload M193/SS109s/124gr Gold Dots. One of these days I might take a trip up to cabelas and see what kind of odd ammo I can find. I also want to redo the Silver Bear/WPA JHP test. Because noone has even thought to do a test on that stuff. i'd like to send you some uly 762x39 with the 8m3 bullet and some prvi 223 75gr match to test out. shoot me a pm. The 8m3, what ammo does that come in? I might have it already. the blue and white uly boxes and the early wolf military classic. i don't believe it is in any current loading. |
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Posted: 5/11/2012 10:42:51 AM EDT
[#36]
Don't spend time and money making gel molds––just get some cheap clear plastic storage bins of the appropriate size for the blocks you want to make. We use the Rubbermaid 66 liter ones; these make blocks from 40-100 lbs depending on how full they are filled.
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Posted: 5/11/2012 12:13:10 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Don't spend time and money making gel molds––just get some cheap clear plastic storage bins of the appropriate size for the blocks you want to make. We use the Rubbermaid 66 liter ones; these make blocks from 40-100 lbs depending on how full they are filled. I have searched and searched for the perfect one and couldn't find it. I also don't want to be wasting extra amounts of gelatin if I dont have to. The mold itself was only $26 in materials I had to buy so far. I might have to pick up another tube of epoxy though. That Rubbermaid one would force me to use alot of gelatin, and its only a few $$$ cheaper then the materials I have bought so far. |
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Posted: 5/11/2012 1:27:09 PM EDT
[#38]
.223/5.56x45mm:
-Compare Hornady TAP 5.56mm 75gr and Federal 5.56mm 62gr TBBC in bare gel. See how much tissue damage you are giving up for unobstructed or minimally obstructed (drywall, etc.) shots to be "barrier blind". Windshields are a tough barrier and it is not realistically probable you will ever need to shoot through one in your lifetime for anyone not doing LE patrol work. -Everyone's latest darling load –– the Barnes TSX, has AoA issues. Meaning the nose simply folds over if the angle of impact is not square enough. I *want* someone to prove me wrong on this. Nobody wants to talk about it or believe their latest darling has a flaw. This will require a high-speed camera to verify AoI though. And you may need to sample a few barrels to get one that'll give you an off-center AoI. Probably not feasible within your study... -Test some of the Russian (Barnaul/Bear) .223/5.56mm 62gr Soft Point loads. All the American made SPs are $15-30/box. The Russian SP loads are as cheap as the cheapest plinking ammunition. 7.62x39mm: 7.62x39 HP's have been tested by various outfits over the years. They fragment, but not reliably and only after varying lengths of penetration. They are the M193/M855 of 7.62x39 except they drop below frag velocity threshold at even shorter distances. Boring. I'd love to see some of the 7.62x39mm 122-125gr Soft Points tested. They are cheap, available, reliable and potentially very promising in 7.62x39mm based on the one gel test I've seen on BB 125gr. Tula makes one SP load in this projectile weight range: http://www.sgammo.com/product/tula/20-rds-762x39-soft-point-124-grain-tula-ammo As does Barnaul: http://www.sgammo.com/product/silver-bear/500-rd-case-762x39-silver-bear-125gr-soft-point-ammo (Note: Brown/Silver/Gold Bear all use the same projectile, only the cartridge case is different) Haven't seen the Tula SP tested. |
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Posted: 5/11/2012 1:30:14 PM EDT
[#39]
I keep forgetting to mention that I want to do a test of some ammo such as M855 through bare gel, then shoot it through 1/2" aluminum or 1/4" steel and then see what it does.
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Posted: 5/13/2012 11:27:45 AM EDT
[#40]
I was just thinking....
I can buy a set of reloading dies and 1-2 boxes of PPU brass 7.62x54r. I can then reload whatever .308 bullets you want me to try and shoot them through my mosin. I've always wanted to get a set of dies for my mosin anyway. Also PSA has free shipping on everything so I was thinking of picking up a box of federal's new 50gr LCT |
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Posted: 5/13/2012 1:15:21 PM EDT
[#41]
They key here for this 2nd test is longer range (IE, 100+ yards). Anything is going to be devastating at across the room ranges.
I would do the same test you just did, but at 100 yards (since it is the longest range available to you) and see what the differences are. |
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Posted: 5/13/2012 5:16:31 PM EDT
[#42]
I'm predicting there wont be a big difference between 50 yards and 100. As its only a matter of about 100fps, but we will try and see
I'm filling the mold up with water tonight to make sure its water worthy, then we will mix up a batch of gel tomorrow. |
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Posted: 5/13/2012 6:29:39 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
I'm predicting there wont be a big difference between 50 yards and 100. As its only a matter of about 100fps, but we will try and see
I'm filling the mold up with water tonight to make sure its water worthy, then we will mix up a batch of gel tomorrow. 50 and 100 yards????? ....the first test was conducted at a distance of 10 yards! ..........jeeeeeessus!! 
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Posted: 5/13/2012 7:11:38 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm predicting there wont be a big difference between 50 yards and 100. As its only a matter of about 100fps, but we will try and see
I'm filling the mold up with water tonight to make sure its water worthy, then we will mix up a batch of gel tomorrow. 50 and 100 yards????? ....the first test was conducted at a distance of 10 yards! ..........jeeeeeessus!! You might want to check who you are arguing with here.... |
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Posted: 5/14/2012 4:53:49 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: I was just thinking.... I can buy a set of reloading dies and 1-2 boxes of PPU brass 7.62x54r. I can then reload whatever .308 bullets you want me to try and shoot them through my mosin. I've always wanted to get a set of dies for my mosin anyway. Also PSA has free shipping on everything so I was thinking of picking up a box of federal's new 50gr LCT If you decide to do this, let me know. I am interested if the .308 DAG bullets actually fragment like people say. I could always break some down and send the projectiles to you. |
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Posted: 5/14/2012 8:01:58 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm predicting there wont be a big difference between 50 yards and 100. As its only a matter of about 100fps, but we will try and see
I'm filling the mold up with water tonight to make sure its water worthy, then we will mix up a batch of gel tomorrow. 50 and 100 yards????? ....the first test was conducted at a distance of 10 yards! ..........jeeeeeessus!! While your foot is still in your mouth, I'm still waiting to see reports of 75/77gr rounds fragmenting out to 600 yards. |
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Posted: 5/14/2012 3:37:40 PM EDT
[#47]
BTW, If you are willing and will commit to carrying out any of the tests I mentioned I'd be happy to provide the ammunition. Except for the .223 Russian SP's as I don't have any more and all the suppliers are out of it. I'm sure someone else here has some and can provide that.
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Posted: 5/14/2012 9:29:12 PM EDT
[#48]
Hey IG, finally dug into things. This is what I have on hand and you can decide what you want.
Thanks for the selfless effort and expense. You are doing the community a great service. 
Just a few 62gr Fusions, not enough to build up a decent load but yours if you want. 62gr Mk 318's: enough for what you wanted. 62gr enviro safe Mk318: enough. These have potential and will ship a few. 64gr TBBC 64gr GD Most know that frangible is not a good round for anything but hitting steel, but if you want to try any I can arrange a few things most likely. If you go .30, LMK. |
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Posted: 5/15/2012 6:35:44 PM EDT
[#49]
I decided not to order the .30 dies so no .30 right yet. I'm very interested in the lead free rounds. IM imbound...
As for suggestions on what to try out here are all the calibers I have available...but I only reload 9mm, 5.56, 38 special/.357 .22LR .22WMR 5.56 7.62x39 7.62x54R 30-30 12 guage .32 auto .380 .38 special .357 magnum 9mm .40 S&W .45 ACP |
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Posted: 5/15/2012 6:41:22 PM EDT
[#50]
I'm still having slight issues with my mold but I'm hoping it will be ready by tomorrow for me to whip up a batch.
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