AR15.Com Mobile
SKD VERIFORCE PK GEISSELE JT DPMS AIM CMMG VORTEX BROWNELLS
DSG MAGPUL SWFA LARUE DEL-TON RAINIER RRA MI FSI STAG BLUE FORCE GEAR
» 0 Online
Ammunition review - PMP (South African)
Please give feedback on your PERSONAL experience with PMP .223 ammunition
Total Votes: 124
I have not had any problems with this ammunition

I have had minor problems with this ammunition, but will continue to use it

I have had major problems with this ammunition, and will not use it anymore




(101)  81.45%

(9)  7.26%

(14)  11.29%
Zhukov  [Moderator]
This poll is only about commercial PMP ammunition, NOT the South African battle packs. Most PMP ammo boxes have a picture of a gazelle on them

Since the previous poll about PMP has been archived, I have started a new thread to collect more information as this ammunition is still for sale, and questions come up at least once a week in the ammo forum. The previous results were:

304 TOTAL votes
263 Have Not had any problems at all
20 Had some problems, but would continue to use the ammunition
21 Have had major problems, and would not use the ammunition again

IF YOU HAVE ALREADY VOTED IN THE PREVIOUS POLL, PLEASE DO NOT VOTE AGAIN.

I will add the totals and generate a correct count for the ranking in the Ammunition review thread

Please add your personal experience with Remington/UMC ammunition to this thread. When you do, please give information about:
1) Firearm used in
2) Approximate number of rounds fired.
3) Ammunition type
Paid Advertisement
Zhukov  [Moderator]
JimmyT:
I've shot about 1500 rounds of it through my Bushmaster M4. It's great plinking ammo, but a little under-powered when compared to XM193. Other than that it's clean, cheap, and reliable - no malfunctions to speak of. I'd compare it to the Winchester white box .223 you get at Wal-Mart in the 40 round value packs. I would definitely recommend as a good plinking ammo.

NESurvival:
I bought 1000 rounds of around Y2K. So far I've shot 500 of it (some twice). The ammo shoots fine. While my novice skills, gritty trigger doesn't allow this every time, my very first HPR match, the very first shot was in the 'x' with PMP from 200 yards. I don't use it at the 600 yard line but I use this ammo for the following: Plink/Reload/HPR I reload them with 69gr and I may have gone overboard with one batch where I had some flattened primers. However, I can confidently say that I've had 0% problems with this ammo either factory or my own reloads. My rifle is a stock 20" Bushmaster A2.

mr_wilson:
PMP, brownish boxed w/ Gazelle on it ammo, civilian production. Bought 500 rounds of it and have 2 ARs which are single shot rifles with this ammo, as it doesn't have enough "ooomph" to cycle properly. Double feed jams were common. That said I have two other ARs that it runs relatively fine in, other than being noticably under-powered ammo. I won't buy any more. Mike PS - this ammo was purchased the first time I saw some several years ago at the local gun-show, and maybe they have cured the problems I had by boosting it up some, based on the no-problem comments above.

Ohio:
Good ammo. Brass case, high quality loads. .223 Remington power, not M193. Excellent cases for reloading. I have used probaly 1000 rounds, with another 1000 in the house. I have loaded up to six times with no problems. My supplier has stopped carrying it due to exchange rate with South Africa. Where can it be gotten at a good price?

YANKEEFAN:
Great plinking ammo!!! I have shot 500 rounds through both my 20 inch Oly and my 16 inch Rock River M4gery. Not a problem or jam with it in either gun. I'd buy it again if I could find it.

7:
Two thumbs up here. It is just about the only ammo I've shot through my M15/M16's for the past 2-3 years. Gonna be sad to be out of it soon.

phoenix27:
I've shot 500+ rounds of the PMP .223 ammo through a trio of ARs in the form of a pre-ban Colt HBAR Sporter II, Bushmaster Shorty AK and Bushmaster 16-inch carbine. All three guns love this ammo, cycles well, shoots straight, but the .223 stuff is a bit underpowered compared to the usual 5.56 MM ammo like WIN Q3131A and Fed XM-193. The PMP stuff I really love is the South African mil-surplus 5.56 MM ammo from the mid-80s. This ammo is hot, shoots straight, has excellent terminal frag properties and is cheap if you can get the 300-round/900-round battle packs. Too many of us AR-15.com guys have been talking about it though and this has all but dried up from the marketplace. Too bad!

jack19512:
PMP will not cycle properly in my new armalite m15A2.

Buey:
1. 55 grn. 2. Bushmaster A1 3. 4000 rnds

-Absolut-:
about 1,000 rounds of PMP through my Bushy with no probs

Robertesq1:
I had some major problems with this stuff not ejecting (the casings getting stuck in the bbl) stuck so hard the ejector was cutting small notches into the casings. I even handed the stuff out to others on the line who had the sme problem in their weapons (including AR and Mini 14s). I know of someone here who expierenced the same with their full auto. I am convinced it was just a bad batch but will never buy the stuff again.

cnatra:
I've shot 1000+rds of the .223
firearms used:
Colt 6700
Bushmaster Dissipator
RRA M4gery

creeks:
1,000 rounds plus. In both a PWA and Bushmaster AR15. No problems.

Liaison:
Over 1,000 rds in both Bushmaster 16" Dissipator and ASA CAR. No problems with Bushmaster but extraction problems with the ASA as mentioned earlier in this thread (Robertesq1). Fairly dirty powder but worth the price 300 for 36- from cheaper than dirt or was it shooter's?

AR10TShooter:
About 200 rounds of this through 2 different ARs One is an Oly 16 in carbine and an Armalite 16 in.A few fail to extract problems,other than that everything was OK with it I would shoot it again

inferno715:
i bought a rifle from a guy last spring and it came with 1100rds of PMP. i think i sold 500rds and shot the rest. no problems in my AR. my buddy had problems with it but he had problems with every kind of ammo. good stuff, i would buy it again.

DonS:
Several hundred rounds in a Bushmaser XM15 with no problems.

JoelSmith:
1000 Rds in Oly PCR-16. No malfunctions and in comparison to the South African battle packs it is at least as accurate or better at 100 yds.

Torf:
Absolutely no problems here!

I have shot hundreds in my Bushmaster, and never had any issues. The price I bought it at was very good, accuracy was more than acceptable for plinking ammo, and the reliability was 100%.

The brass is high quality for reloading as well, so for a pretty cheap price, you get good quality .223 plinker ammo, and for free you get hundreds of quality 223 Remington brass cases that you can reload later.

captainH1:
1,000 rounds through my Rock River 20" HBAR with 0 problems. I would buy more if I could find any. It actually performed better than expected for lower cost ammo. Pretty consistant 100 yard groups at about 1" with scope.

Keith1:
Several thousand rounds through various 15's(Armalite, Colt, DPMS, PAWS, etc.) & 16's (Colt), Mini-14's, and single shots with good results. The only problem that I ever had was with a POS upper that I bought from a Western N.C. company that shall remain nameless.

ColSanders:
Shot almost 500 rounds through my RRA shorty without one malfunction.

Blankwaffe98:
Ive shot close to 400 rounds of the PMP commercial ammo in my Armalite M15A2 without a single issue.
Nice ammo for the money...just wish I could get more.

chrome1:
I was happy with it until this :
[pic]
I'm not sure how many have done this but I did notice about 4 softer reports in around 300 rounds .
I always clear the chamber and check the bore after an odd sounding shot . This was the rounds I cleared after the last soft shot .

The weapon was a Bushy 16" that has never exhibited any feed problems in 5 years and thousands of rounds . I even cycled through several full 30 round mags
after I found this one and didn't see any more do this , but I don't think I'll be rapid firing this ammo any more

Daubs:
This PMP, brownish boxed w/ Gazelle ammo is the worst ammo I've tried yet!

Fired in an Armalite that has a 223cal chamber. After a few rounds I encountered many FTEject, FTExtract, short stokes w/failure to pickup the next round and failure to lock the bolt back on the last round. From the recoil it seems loaded very week. I've had many rims get ripped by the extractor and remain stuck in the chamber. Accuracy was OK. In all this ammo is a definite NO for Me! It made my time at the range horrible.

BTW I did have 500 Rds of this stuff but have since shot most of it using the charging handle like a bolt on a bolt action rifle , hand charging almost every round beacues of a short stroke.

Not_A_Llama:
About 700 rounds of the gazelle stuff through a chomoly 16" JT carbine.

Runs great, no evidence of being underpowered as others have reported.

Additional observations:
Low flash (powder fomulation?)
Bullet fragments unusually well, compared to XM193 and my M193 clone load.

slowsure:
I like this ammo.

Fired ~1000 thru a Bushmaster AK shorty.

About average accuracy for this gun.

I shot the Area 6 3-gun USPSA match with this ammo and it made Minor power factor in the 16" bbl. Not by much but Minor is all you need in this game

I wanted to buy more a few months back but couldnt find any. I would buy again if I could locate.

Jason280
We used it exclusively at a Class III rental range I worked at for a while, probably 3-5,000 rounds worth. We ran it through a well-used M16, an M249, Ruger 556, and Steyr AUG with ZERO ammo related failures. We did experience the occasional FTE's, etc, but they were all mag/firearm related. Actually, we never cleaned a gun until it stopped working.

I also personally used about 500 rounds of the stuff in a target Rock River and 16" Bushy A2. Also, just like the class 3 stuff, I never experienced a single problem. The ammo was reasonably accurate (around 1.5 MOA) and seemed to be pretty clean, especially compared to Wolf.

I hate that the prices went up, because I really liked the ammo! At one time (several years ago), we could buy the ammo for around $2-2.50 per box.

ColSanders
Bought 1K of it, shot half of it with zero malfunctions through my Bushmaster M4. The case is really nice for reloading as well.

I don't know anyone who speaks badly about this stuff. High quality ammo.

djc119
2K rounds thru my 1/7 Gov't model without any problems. Got it at a show in the 90's for $140/1000.

fuzzy_dba
I've used over 1K rounds of the PMP Gazelle ammo. Haven't had any problems, but it's SAMMI spec not mil-spec ammo and some have experienced short stroking.

ColSanders
The only people I seem to recall having issues with short stroking were people shooting with Armalites.

HEADACHE
I used to shoot a bunch of this ammo out of my dads mini-14.
It all shot well, no problems at all.

R-32
That is my Non SHTF ammo of choice... Runs fine in all of my AR's...

AR-10
I went throgh two thousand rounds a few years ago. I liked it just fine for the price. Very low flash, practically no fireball from a sixteen inch barrel with no muzzle device.

Haven't seen it available lately. Would buy more if I could find some.

bruh44
I bought a case of it around a year ago at a gun show for $145.00. I never had a problem with it before. I recently got a DPMS 20" bull barrel. The gun wouldn't cycle. I had it suggested to me that it could be the ammo, but I already sent the barrel off to DPMS to be checked out. I'll try again when I get it back and post an update.

yekimak
I had about 100 rounds of this that came with a gun when I bought it. It seemed really soft, and there were brass shavings all over the insides of my 180b, some of which gummed up the ejector, causing FTE's.
Did not have the same shaving problems with other brass ammunition I shot.

iceweazel
20" RRA CMP SS HBAR
16" bushy M4gery
20" Armalite HBAR

I love this stuff. It's not XM193, but until recently it was well priced just above Wolf, is reloadable, and fairly accurate in everything I've tested it in out to 300yds, and can be shot at my local indoor ranges in foul weather (no steel head requirement) Cleaner than Wolf but a bit odd smelling.
3000 rounds or more. Made a deal for a pile of this when the first case worked well. Was very pleased.
Poor exchange rate has driven off the suppliers though :(

Makarov
I have fired (2)500rnd cases through my Bushy 20" factory gun. Great ammo for me! Accurate and clean. BTW-this is the same gun that DOES NOT like Radway Green.

Forest
Good ammo, loaded to SAMMI spec. Nice for plinking, practice and blasting.
I hope to be picking up some more tomorrow.

C-4
I bought two cases of PMP in 1997 in the red and white boxes. I kept it in ammo cans and only recently shot up most of it in a Bushmaster 16" HBar. Of the 2000 rounds I have maybe 200 left. 1000+ rounds was fired over a two-day defensive carbine course. I didn't have a single malfuntion in the 1800 rounds that I shot. My understanding, IIRC when I posted about this before, is that PMP made back then was loaded hotter (?M193). I don't know if this is comparable to the ammo they make now. Very nice stuff

FMJ
Very accurate out of my Shorty 1/9 Even better than Wolf M193

IHOLLETA
have some older 55g FMJ PMP that a bought a bunch of a while back. I shot it in my Bushy AK Shorty and Bushy Carbon 15 (approx 200 rds). Shot great in both but was slightly dirty. No FTFs or FTEs.
Docsprague  [Member]
1) LMT 14.5 M4gery
2) Approximately 300
3) 223, 55 grain FMJ

No problems, decent accuracy.
Tom_in_CA  [Member]
I bought a few hundred rounds of PMP a few years ago. It shot very well from my mini-14 and also has excellent accuracy in my AR-15. Probably the best accuracy, or at lease equal to, anything I've used. I had one problem which I attribute to the ammo: A round went off with a normal report but there was a great deal of white smoke from the gun and the mag fell out (???) We checked for a round lodged in the barrel but everything seemed okay. Low powered round? - Then why did the mag fall out? Overload? Possibly - but primers and cases around the gun looked good - The mag was okay - just blew out - I would buy more of this stuff but its worth noting.

Tom in CA
SevenMaryThree  [Team Member]
Decent stuff. Never chrono'd, but it's not the hottest load out there.

I bought a metric shitload of gazelle box'd PMP in .270 Winchester 130 and 150 grain softpoints because of the price. I think I paid $6.99/box.

It shoots 1/2 MOA from my 24" barreled Beretta Mato Synthetic. Me likey!
Subconscious  [Member]
I've run ~400 rounds of commercial PMP, circa 1999 though my RRA mid-length upper/Stag lower, zero problems. Actually, that's all I've run through my AR It's just a baby. I have ~300 rounds left, I plan to finish them off, continuing the break-in. Clean, accurate, consistent.

ETA: 55 gr FMJ
Zhukov  [Moderator]
Bump to prevent archiving.
Zhukov  [Moderator]
Bump to prevent archiving
FMJ  [Member]
shot alot of the 223 55gr fmj back in 2001/02
No trouble accurate
wish I could find MORE
Putter  [Member]
A buddy asked me to try some he had. He was having problems with FTE's out of his Bushmaster. Very first round I tried, the case got stuck in the chamber, and the extractor on my POF ripped a chunk of the rim right off the case. That was my first and last experience with this stuff. Everything else I've shot with no problems.
sniper7  [Member]
never had a problem with it. shot 1000 rounds of it that i had, never had a hiccup. The cases aren't as clean as other stuff, but not so dirty that its a problem. good ammo IMO.
Zhukov  [Moderator]
Bump to prevent archiving.
Zhukov  [Moderator]
Bump
rome5982  [Member]
S&W MP15 (16inch barrel)

Had several FTE from one box. Had to use barrel cleaning rod to clear the chamber of two shells. Many of the rounds looked like there was a build-up of some kind of material between the rim and the case. Threw half of the box away.
arakman  [Member]
I ran a 100rds of the PMP witht he gazelle on it through my FAL without a hiccup. It seemed a little less powerful than other ammo I have shot, but I didn't have to change my gas adjustment so...
As far as the UMC goes in .223; I ran about 40rds through my AR and it seemed weak and there was nothing special enough about it to make me wanna buy anymore. Armalite mid length upper, DPMS lower
nick1983  [Team Member]
Went out shooting with 3 guys who just happened to share some PMP .223 55gr. FMJ one of them wanted to get rid of.

FTE every other round or so, on all three guns, 2 DPMS M4geries, and 1 Colt 24in Varmint.

I used to shoot regularly with the two guys with the DPMS AR's, and had never seen any of them have a problem before, with any ammo.
rome5982  [Member]
Why is the "Ammunition review and reference" page not updated with the latest poll percentage for this brand?
gonzosc1  [Member]
I just found some of the SA in 5.56 Ball M1A3, 300 rd Bpacks. its a bit pricey at $175 per pack. can you tell what the manuf date is from the number on the pack? one pack had this number on it "238 A 85Z"
cmaugel  [Team Member]
I realize this thread hasn't had any responses lately, but I came across a few boxes of the 'gazelle' boxed PMP 55 gr. and tried it out this afternoon so I figured I'd throw in my 2 cents. Rifle fired is a Stag upper/Spikes lower 16" barrel w/young mfg. bolt/carrier.
Out of 100 rounds I had 3 FTE's that I had to tap out w/a cleaning rod. This rifle has about 1k rounds through it, and this was the first time it had ever had any malfunction that wasn't due to a magazine.
The ammo had decent accuracy and didn't run very dirty though, especially when you compare it to Wolf and other ammo at the same price.

Paid Advertisement