Originally Posted By Scotter260: If it is tacked, would anyone else agree that the replies to Molon's info be taken out so that all of his great information be compressed into either one post or all of the first posts so his info is complete and kept together right at the beginning? Scott

Fine by me!  Great info and hard work that should be tacked.

Thank you everyone for all the positive feedback.

Molon

Point of Impact Comparison


Not wanting to burn through my entire stash of 5.56 TAP for practice use, I’ve decided to start reloading a similar round for practice.  Since the “T2” bullet is not available as a reloading component, I’m using the “T1” 75 grain BTHP that is available.  

I’m only loading to SAMMI pressures to start with.  Using an extruded powder I’ve loaded the 75 grain BTHP bullet to match the muzzle velocity of the Hornady 75 grain TAP FPD round, essentially creating a clone of the TAP FPD round (minus the cannelure.)

I was curious as to how different the points of impact would be between my TAP FPD clone and the 5.56 TAP load. In case I ever had to make serious use of the 5.56 TAP round, without having time to re-zero for the load, this could be a useful thing to know.  

Now, I’m not talking about the difference in the trajectory of the two loads.  Since the 5.56 TAP round has a muzzle velocity of approximately 180 fps greater than the TAP FPD round this will account for differences in elevation at longer distances.  Using an IBZ type zero, both loads will have virtually identical trajectories out to about 60 yards and then the 5.56 TAP load will maintain a slightly higher trajectory due to its higher velocity.  What I’m talking about here is strictly the difference in the point of impact due to the interaction between the different  loads and the rifle.  Naturally, a test was in order.

I zeroed the same rifle with the Colt 20” HBAR that I have used in testing throughout this thread at 100 yards using the TAP FPD clone load.  I then obtained three 10-shot groups of the load and overlayed those groups on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to determine the statistical center of the 30-round composite group.  In the same manner, I obtained three 10-shot groups using the 5.56 TAP load and overlayed those groups to obtain the center of this 30-round composite target.

Finally, I compared the centers of the two composite groups.  The 5.56 TAP group was 0.19” lower and 0.88” to the left of the TAP FPD clone group.   For scopes with quarter MOA clicks this would mean one click up and three clicks right to re-zero for the 5.56 TAP load.

Below is an NRA High Power type target ( the X-ring measures 1.5” and the 10-ring measures 3.5”) with a graphical representation of the two different composite groups .  The green shaded area represents the impact area of the 5.56 TAP load with the diameter determined using the Maximum Shot Radius and the yellow shaded area represents the impact area of the TAP FPD clone load.  (Click here for an explanation of the Maximum Shot Radius.)

As you can see, both shaded areas fall within the 10-ring.  If I urgently needed to use the 5.56 TAP load, I now feel confident that I could still shoot “minute of bad guy” out to at least 100 yards without having to re-zero.

I read Molon post, hurt brain bad.

There is no way the information obtained in your posts should be funded on your dime.  You seriously need to send this information to Hornady and get something for your troubles.  I haven't ordered the TAP information book that Hornady has listed in their LE catalog so I can't speak as to what's in it, but your info far surpasses any and all information they provide in the LE catalog about their various loads and testing methods.

I'm also hoping you haven't burned through your stash yet.

As always, very excellent info and presentation, thank you,
Scott

Originally Posted By paulosantos: Molon.  WHen we get the 75 Gr. ammo from HSM, would you be interested in testing it for us like you did with the ammo you tested?  Thanks in advance.

What do you say Molon?

And have you been approached by a Moderator/Site Staff to see about getting thic tacked?  It is without a doubt the best thread I have eever encountered, period.

Too bad your photos are down though.


Thanks for sharing Molon; you've enlightened us all.

Take care and God bless.

Best Regards,

Justin

Molon,

Check your IMs.

Scott

Originally Posted By Scotter260: Molon, Check your IMs. Scott

Checked, and IM sent.

Originally Posted By CitySlicker: Originally Posted By paulosantos: Molon.  WHen we get the 75 Gr. ammo from HSM, would you be interested in testing it for us like you did with the ammo you tested?  Thanks in advance. What do you say Molon? And have you been approached by a Moderator/Site Staff to see about getting thic tacked?  It is without a doubt the best thread I have eever encountered, period. Too bad your photos are down though. Thanks for sharing Molon; you've enlightened us all. Take care and God bless. Best Regards, Justin

Thanks for the kind words.  I have already contacted paulosantos by IM regarding the testing of the HSM 75 grain ammo.  Stay tuned.

This site has been doing strange things to the picture code since the new upgrade.  I had to re-do the code for all the pictures in my initial post.  The pics should be back up now.

Molon

Originally Posted By Molon: Originally Posted By CitySlicker: Originally Posted By paulosantos: Molon.  WHen we get the 75 Gr. ammo from HSM, would you be interested in testing it for us like you did with the ammo you tested?  Thanks in advance. What do you say Molon? And have you been approached by a Moderator/Site Staff to see about getting thic tacked?  It is without a doubt the best thread I have eever encountered, period. Too bad your photos are down though. Thanks for sharing Molon; you've enlightened us all. Take care and God bless. Best Regards, Justin Thanks for the kind words.  I have already contacted paulosantos by IM regarding the testing of the HSM 75 grain ammo.  Stay tuned. This site has been doing strange things to the picture code since the new upgrade.  I had to re-do the code for all the pictures in my initial post.  The pics should be back up now. Molon

Great!!!!  I wonder why Zhukov hasn't tacked this yet?

Don t know if this was posted previously, but here is a good article pertaining to the 5.56mm TAP ammo.  Has details relative to the specific design criteria and rationale as well as comprehensive terminal performance data.   The 5.56mm 75gr NATO round out of a 16" barrel haa pretty similar performance to the 6.8mm 110gr load in a 16" barrel (data also included).  

article

Originally Posted By SOSNBA: Don t know if this was posted previously, but here is a good article pertaining to the 5.56mm TAP ammo.  Has details relative to the specific design criteria and rationale as well as comprehensive terminal performance data.   The 5.56mm 75gr NATO round out of a 16" barrel haa pretty similar performance to the 6.8mm 110gr load in a 16" barrel (data also included).   article

Someone should let the author of that article know that his twist rate of 1X9 will not properly stabalize 75 gr. TAP and other heavy rounds; it should be 1X7 or 1X8.










www.policeone.com/police-products/firearms/accessories/ammunition/articles/126691/0

Someone should let the author of that article know that his twist rate of 1X9 will not properly stabalize 75 gr. TAP and other heavy rounds; it should be 1X7 or 1X8.

Yeah, that group in table one should be smaller, and would have been if he'd used a 1x7" twist.

Originally Posted By CitySlicker: Originally Posted By SOSNBA: Don t know if this was posted previously, but here is a good article pertaining to the 5.56mm TAP ammo.  Has details relative to the specific design criteria and rationale as well as comprehensive terminal performance data.   The 5.56mm 75gr NATO round out of a 16" barrel haa pretty similar performance to the 6.8mm 110gr load in a 16" barrel (data also included).   article Someone should let the author of that article know that his twist rate of 1X9 will not properly stabalize 75 gr. TAP and other heavy rounds; it should be 1X7 or 1X8. i1.tinypic.com/205p0dd.jpg i2.tinypic.com/205p0l3.jpg i2.tinypic.com/205p0rm.jpg www.policeone.com/police-products/firearms/accessories/ammunition/articles/126691/0

I always thought it was rather odd that those test results showed the 5.56 TAP having a higher velocity fired from the 14.5” barrel than the 16” barrel.  (2667 fps from the 14.5” barrel versus 2665 fps from the 16” barrel)

Originally Posted By CitySlicker: Someone should let the author of that article know that his twist rate of 1X9 will not properly stabalize 75 gr. TAP and other heavy rounds; it should be 1X7 or 1X8.

I hope that is sarcasum. I have a 16" RRA that shoots 75gr BTHP just fine. I have plans to load up some 77gr Noslers soon as well.

Some 1/9 barrels will shoot the heavies just fine, the only way to find out is to shoot them.

Originally Posted By Molon: Originally Posted By CitySlicker: Originally Posted By SOSNBA: Don t know if this was posted previously, but here is a good article pertaining to the 5.56mm TAP ammo.  Has details relative to the specific design criteria and rationale as well as comprehensive terminal performance data.   The 5.56mm 75gr NATO round out of a 16" barrel haa pretty similar performance to the 6.8mm 110gr load in a 16" barrel (data also included).   article Someone should let the author of that article know that his twist rate of 1X9 will not properly stabalize 75 gr. TAP and other heavy rounds; it should be 1X7 or 1X8. i1.tinypic.com/205p0dd.jpg i2.tinypic.com/205p0l3.jpg i2.tinypic.com/205p0rm.jpg www.policeone.com/police-products/firearms/accessories/ammunition/articles/126691/0 I always thought it was rather odd that those test results showed the 5.56 TAP having a higher velocity fired from the 14.5” barrel than the 16” barrel.  (2667 fps from the 14.5” barrel versus 2665 fps from the 16” barrel)

The 16" barrel was probably fairly used.

Originally Posted By WesDesRat: Originally Posted By CitySlicker: Someone should let the author of that article know that his twist rate of 1X9 will not properly stabalize 75 gr. TAP and other heavy rounds; it should be 1X7 or 1X8. I hope that is sarcasum. I have a 16" RRA that shoots 75gr BTHP just fine. I have plans to load up some 77gr Noslers soon as well. Some 1/9 barrels will shoot the heavies just fine, the only way to find out is to shoot them.

As you state, some 1/9 shoot 75gr fine and often times the 77gr. as well.  But, I have also read here about a thousand times that the 1/7 is better suited for the heavier round, let alone what my military sources say.  I personally can not confirm this, as while I have both I can't say that I have ever put them to the proper tests.

So, no, what he said wasn't sarcasm, it was likely fact.  By saying "some 1/9 barrels shoot the heavies just fine", you confirm that you know that.  Not trying to get you going, just pointing it out.

If I may, to what range is your 1/9 accurate out to with the 75gr?

Originally Posted By safetyhit: If I may, to what range is your 1/9 accurate out to with the 75gr?

At least 200 yards, on paper, with no keyholes or other signs of instability that I can see. I've shot it further than that, but not on paper, and I dont see a large degredation of accuraccy. Keep in mind this upper is wearing an EOtech and iorns, so I'm not paper punching for fun at 600 yards.

Steve at ADCO has sucessfully shot heavies in 1/9 twist barrels of various types on paper as far as 600, and posted the results. His opinion, IIRC, was that quality 1/9 barrels should shoot heavy bullets just fine.

My point was that many people think a 1/9 marking on a barrel means they are stuck with bullets under 70 grains, which is often, IMHO, not the case, especially with good barrels. It often has more to do with bullet shape, length, and construction, than weight.

CitySlicker is right, that if one intended to shoot the 75+ grain bullets, he would probably be better served with a faster twist rate, but wrong in perpetuating the assumption that a 1/9 barrel cant be used efectively with heavy bullets.

My intent isnt to start a pissing match in Molons thread, so thats all I have to say.

Originally Posted By WesDesRat: Originally Posted By safetyhit: If I may, to what range is your 1/9 accurate out to with the 75gr? At least 200 yards, on paper, with no keyholes or other signs of instability that I can see. I've shot it further than that, but not on paper, and I dont see a large degredation of accuraccy. Keep in mind this upper is wearing an EOtech and iorns, so I'm not paper punching for fun at 600 yards. Steve at ADCO has sucessfully shot heavies in 1/9 twist barrels of various types on paper as far as 600, and posted the results. His opinion, IIRC, was that quality 1/9 barrels should shoot heavy bullets just fine. My point was that many people think a 1/9 marking on a barrel means they are stuck with bullets under 70 grains, which is often, IMHO, not the case, especially with good barrels. It often has more to do with bullet shape, length, and construction, than weight. CitySlicker is right, that if one intended to shoot the 75+ grain bullets, he would probably be better served with a faster twist rate, but wrong in perpetuating the assumption that a 1/9 barrel cant be used efectively with heavy bullets. My intent isnt to start a pissing match in Molons thread, so thats all I have to say.

You are absolutely right:

Originally Posted By DocGKR; some, but not all, 1/9 twist barrels have had problems stabilizing 75/77 gr bullets--especially at longer ranges...

1:9 stablize 75gr

It seems that my generalization [that 1X9 twist barrels will not stabalize longer rounds] was incorrect, and I apologize to WesDesRat.

Best Regards,

Justin

Originally Posted By CitySlicker: It seems that my generalization [that 1X9 twist barrels will not stabalize longer rounds] was incorrect, and I apologize to WesDesRat. Best Regards, Justin

No skin off my back, I just want people to know the facts, and not just assume their rifle wont shoot TAP or other heavy bullets because its stamped "1x9" and then not gain the benefits of those loads.

Some folks have also had problems stabilizing heavy bullets in 1/9 twist barrels, maybe because of a well used "shot out" barrel, poor quailty chrome lining, slightly slower actual twist rates than what is marked on the barrel, poor or damaged crown.... or some other reason, so you are not *wrong* in stating they'd be better off with a 1/8 or 1/7 barrel, just the generalization concerning 1/9 is incorrect.

BTW Molon, thanks for taking the time to do all these tests and comparisons. I'm sorry if this sidetrack seems out of place.

No problemo.  I wish I had the time and resources to do more in-depth testing on the 1:7” versus 1:9” twist for heavy bullets issue.

If you look at the stability results I posted on page 5 you’ll see there is a demonstrable decrease in accuracy for the 75 grain bullets when fired from the 1:9” twist barrel.  That being said, the worst 10-shot group from 100 yards with the 1:9” twist barrel was 2.06”.  That’s more than good enough for “government  work.”

Dr Roberts has stated that it is preferable to “over-spin” a bullet rather than “under-spin” it and given a choice that is what I would do.  Now, if I only had a 1:9” twist barrel and was able to obtain 10-shot groups from 100 yards measuring around 2” with the 75 grain loads I wouldn’t have any reservations about using the heavy bullets for “social purposes.”

I think that first and foremost it’s a matter of testing your barrel with the heavy bullets to be aware of its capabilities and limitations.  From there I think it’s a personal choice as to what level of accuracy you are willing to accept for your intended mission.

Accuracy of 5.56 TAP from an A2 government profile barrel.

More and more I am coming to appreciate the qualities of the A2 “government profile” barrel.  Its lighter weight and fine balance and handling characteristics are well suited to its intended use.  The trade off for these features can be a decrease in accuracy compared to heavier profile barrels.

It has been my experience that a chrome lined, NATO chambered A2 government profile barrel is good for about 1.25-1.5 MOA accuracy for 10-shot groups from 100 yards using match grade ammunition.  Since this is a thread on 5.56 TAP ammunition, it seemed only fitting to include some testing from a government profile barrel.

For this test I decided to use the NATO pressure 5.56 TAP load fired from a 20” Colt government profile barrel with chrome lining and a NATO chamber.  This barrel is free floated with a KAC RAS and a Leupold Vari-X III set at 25X magnification was used for testing.  All shooting was done from a bench rest at 100 yards.






Before firing the 5.56 TAP load I a10-shot group of a control load consisting of hand-loaded Sierra 55 grain BlitzKings.  The group had an extreme spread of 1.21”.

Next, three 10-shot groups of the 5.56 TAP load were obtained.  They measured 1.39”, 1.81” and 2.04”.  The mean radius of the 30-round composite group was 0.57”.   For additional comparison the mean radius of the 30-round composite group fired from a Colt HBAR in the original testing of the 5.56 TAP load was 0.46”.

Here is a pic of the best 10-shot groups from the control load and the 5.56 TAP load fired from the government profile barrel.






Here are the 30-round composite groups side by side for comparison.

Originally Posted By Molon: More and more I am coming to appreciate the qualities of the A2 “government profile” barrel.  Its lighter weight and fine balance and handling characteristics are well suited to its intended use.  The trade off for these features can be a decrease in accuracy compared to heavier profile barrels.

From the results you posted above, all of those were KILL SHOTS. I'll take the radius 0.11" reduced accuracy for the increased balance and lighter weight any day!

Rmpl

Originally Posted By Rmplstlskn: Originally Posted By Molon: More and more I am coming to appreciate the qualities of the A2 “government profile” barrel.  Its lighter weight and fine balance and handling characteristics are well suited to its intended use.  The trade off for these features can be a decrease in accuracy compared to heavier profile barrels. From the results you posted above, all of those were KILL SHOTS. I'll take the radius 0.11" reduced accuracy for the increased balance and lighter weight any day! Rmpl

When you consider that three 10-shot groups of IMI M193 fired from a Colt HBAR and overlayed on each other have a mean radius of 0.72", the argument for your case becomes even stronger.

Originally Posted By WesDesRat: Originally Posted By CitySlicker: Someone should let the author of that article know that his twist rate of 1X9 will not properly stabalize 75 gr. TAP and other heavy rounds; it should be 1X7 or 1X8. I hope that is sarcasum. I have a 16" RRA that shoots 75gr BTHP just fine. I have plans to load up some 77gr Noslers soon as well. Some 1/9 barrels will shoot the heavies just fine, the only way to find out is to shoot them.

BUSHMASTER  SHORTY 1/9 LOVES the 77gr and 75gr

I bet MOST 1/9 twist can HANDLE the 75gr

Now, I realize a lot of people pass by the Ammo-Oracle and other tacked threads, but if this were tacked, it might prevent a few "What kind of TAP is this?" posts that seem to occur quite frequently.  I mean, if we can save just one of these posts........

Really though, this should be tacked.

Scott

taggage

Stay tuned for more test results.  I'm just waiting for the next production run of 5.56 TAP to ship so I can do a lot-to-lot variation test.  The latest word from Hornady is that the ammo will ship near the end of August.

Molon

I know several LE's I think with this data I can talk them into using there "LE" to letting me sponser a few K rounds!!!

Thanks for the Data!!!

Here is a little “visual catalog” of the 5 different loads that Hornady produces using a 75 grain bullet.  I thought it might help clear up some of the confusion pertaining to the various loads offered by Hornady.







75 grain BTHP MATCH:  catalog #8026
223 Remington




This load uses the 75 grain BTHP “T1” bullet without a cannelure.  The case neck does have a very slight taper crimp.  The powder used is a short cut extruded type.  The lots of this load that I have chronographed have had velocities similar to or slightly higher than the velocities of the 75 grain TAP FPD load (depending on the barrel.)




75 grain BTHP TAP Precision:  catalog #80265
223 Remington

The original version of this load was referred to as "TAP Precision" while the more recent version has dropped the "Precision" nomenclature.  Both versions come in a red box, but the newer version uses the same style of label on the box that the 5.56 TAP ammunition uses, adding to the confusion.

original  

This load is the forerunner to the TAP FPD load.  This load uses the T1 bullet with a cannelure and has a firm taper crimp on the case neck.  This load also uses extruded powder and has a velocity similar to 75 grain TAP FPD.  The primers are not crimped and the cases are plain brass.  


original





current






75 grain TAP FPD (For Personal Defense):  catalog #80268
223 Remington



I think this is the load that started a lot of the confusion about the various 75 grain loads offered by Hornday.  First off, the ammo comes in a black box.  The box is still labeled as “TAP”, but it also has the “For Personal Defense” title on it.  Besides the black box, this round also has the “black nickel” coated cases giving the round its distinctive appearance.  

Other than the black box and black case the round is basically the same as the 75 grain BTHP TAP Precision load.  It uses the T1 bullet with a cannelure and crimped case neck as well as the extruded powder.  It does not have crimped primers.  The muzzle velocity of this load runs around 2640 fps from a 20” chrome lined, NATO chambered Colt barrel.





TAP 5.56 X 45
75 grain BTHP/WC T2:  catalog #8126N



This is the NATO pressure load.  It comes in a red TAP box, but the side panel is clearly labeled 5.56 X 45.  The panel has a disclaimer that reads “NOT FOR USE IN 223 CHAMBERS.”  I think this load is confused with the 75 grain BTHP TAP Precision load because they both come packaged in the red TAP box.

One of the biggest features of this round besides being loaded to NATO pressures is the new T2 bullet.  The ogive of the T2 bullet is shorter than the T1 bullet and the T2 bullet has a longer bearing surface than the T1 bullet.  The T2 bullets also have incredibly uniform meplats giving the loaded round a more uniform overall length.  It is reported that the shape of the bullet was designed so as to improve feeding in the M4 platform.

     

The T2 bullet has a cannelure and the case neck has a firm taper crimp.  The primers for this load are  crimped in place and the primer itself is reported to be a “mil-spec” primer.  The more recent lots of this load have sealed primers.  Contrary to advertisements, none of the lots of this load that I have seen have a sealed case mouth.  This load uses ball powder and has a muzzle velocity of around 2820 fps from a 20” chrome lined, NATO chambered barrel.


















I’d like to dispel the rumor that the TAP 5.56 X 45 load uses a large rifle primer.  This is completely false and can be proved with the application of a tiny bit of science.  The nominal diameter for small rifle primers is 0.175 inches.*  De-priming a fired TAP 5.56 X 45 case and measuring the spent primer with digital calipers shows the primer has a diameter of 0.174”.









75 grain Practice:  catalog #9760
223 Remington


This round comes in a white, 50 round box.  The distinctive feature about this round is the Berdan primed steel case that it uses.  This load uses the T1 bullet with a cannelure and taper crimp.  The load is charged with ball powder and has velocities similar to the 75 grain TAP FPD load.










*The ABC’s of Reloading, page 45.

Excellent work.

Now I just need to find a way to get some of the good TAP.

:)

Originally Posted By Duggan: Excellent work. Now I just need to find a way to get some of the good TAP. :)

It's all good. Ever try the black stuff?

I have yet to use ANY tap.  I've used black hills .223 77 grain and some reload 75 grains of questionable source, but I was holding off on getting any quality ammo until I found out more information.

This thread helps a bunch.

So as I understand it from the previous info, the redbox 55.6 TAP is the best due to longer fragmentation ranges (I have a LMT 14.5 1/7 and a Hart 16 1/9), but the black box FPD is the only stuff I can get myself?

I'm kinda more concerned with accuracy than killing power, but I suppose that is important as well.

EDIT:So, after reading a bunch more:

5.56 TAP and MK262 are the best "killer" rounds, as they have higher velocities and fragmentation ranges due to NATO pressure

while

.223 Black Hills 77 grain and the Regular .223 75 grain TAP is best for punching paper, because nato pressure somehow compromises a few fractions of an MOA?

Info taken from various threads, not just this one.

Correct me if I am wrong.

EDIT2: Did we establish any online place to get steel cased hornady practice ammo?  I didn't see anyplace scanning the threads.

Duggan,

It sounds like you've answered most of your own questions.  You might be interested in reading about the terminal ballistics of the various loads tested by B&T Ammo Labs, if you haven't already done so.

Molon

I recently noticed that my latest lot of 5.56 TAP has a case head-stamp that reads “Hornady 5.56 NATO”, whereas my previous lot was head-stamped “Frontier 5.56 NATO.”  The newest 5.56 TAP cases are lighter than previous Hornady/Frontier cases that I have weighed.  The newest 5.56 TAP cases have an average case weight of 90.2 grains compared to an average of 97.2 grains for previous cases.  

The case capacity is also higher for the new 5.56 TAP cases with an average case capacity of 30.2 grains of H2O compared to 29.9 grains of H20 for the 223 REM case capacities.  Here is a table of case capacities for additional comparison.

Here is a pic of  various caseheads of Hornady ammo for reference.

I updated the table of case capacities after sampling a couple of new lots of brass using a larger sample size.

How old is your .223 TAP? That would explain the Frontier marked cases and the old box and label style. I have some .308 TAP from 1998 that looks very similar.

still end of the month of August for shipping the 5.56 NATO TAP from Hornaday.no
further updates at this time

Originally Posted By Thunderbolt882: How old is your .223 TAP? That would explain the Frontier marked cases and the old box and label style. I have some .308 TAP from 1998 that looks very similar.

I’ve had various lots of the red box 223 TAP from roughly the time it was first introduced until the time the TAP FPD was introduced.  I even had a case of the 223 TAP that came in the “Borg Cube” boxes that contained 25 rounds and was sold before the TAP FPD was introduced.

The 5.56 TAP using the Frontier case is from as recent as 5/2006.  In fact, that is the ammo that I used in the initial chronograph and accuracy testing for this thread.

Here is a pic that shows what a nice job Hornady does with the taper crimp on the case mouth of the 5.56 TAP ammunition.  A round of 5.56 TAP is pictured next to a round of M855 with a typical military (collet) crimp.

Originally Posted By Duggan: I have yet to use ANY tap.  I've used black hills .223 77 grain and some reload 75 grains of questionable source, but I was holding off on getting any quality ammo until I found out more information. This thread helps a bunch. So as I understand it from the previous info, the redbox 55.6 TAP is the best due to longer fragmentation ranges (I have a LMT 14.5 1/7 and a Hart 16 1/9), but the black box FPD is the only stuff I can get myself? I'm kinda more concerned with accuracy than killing power, but I suppose that is important as well. EDIT:So, after reading a bunch more: 5.56 TAP and MK262 are the best "killer" rounds, as they have higher velocities and fragmentation ranges due to NATO pressure while .223 Black Hills 77 grain and the Regular .223 75 grain TAP is best for punching paper, because nato pressure somehow compromises a few fractions of an MOA? Info taken from various threads, not just this one. Correct me if I am wrong. EDIT2: Did we establish any online place to get steel cased hornady practice ammo?  I didn't see anyplace scanning the threads.

There was a Major Sutph on line that was a dealer in NJ for the 75gr steel cased practice ammo.

This is an excellent thread. Thanks to all who contributed.
I too have been simply amazed at the quality of the Hornady ammo.
While not statistically relevant in the grand scheme of things, but significant to me personally, is the performance of the FPD 75 grain ammo in my 1x9" twist barrels. I have shot this ammunition through 3 of my 1x9's and one of my friends, and in all cases these 1x9" (all Colt and Chrome lined) barrels produced their best accuracy ever. These were all good shooting barrels to begin with, but I was a little leery of the slower than desired twist with the 75 grain bullets. No worries. Out to 300 yds and in temperatures in the high 20's to low 30's, these "slow" twist barrels gave MOA (usually less than MOA) accuracy.

Originally Posted By Molon: Here is a pic that shows what a nice job Hornady does with the taper crimp on the case mouth of the 5.56 TAP ammunition.  A round of 5.56 TAP is pictured next to a round of M855 with a typical military (collet) crimp. home.comcast.net/~gocartmozart/556_taper_crimp_01.jpg

Excellent comparison!

I no longer use the Lee Factory Crimp die on any of my TAP or MK262 clone handloads, rather I use the excellent Redding Taper Crimp die. It gives a nice, even squeeze right at the case mouth, and you don't need a cannelured bullet to use it either.

Molon, you have gone above and beyond with this thread!

Rmpl

...

I was sighting in a rifle yesterday evening with 5.56 TAP.  It was about 100 degrees, and accuracy was lousy.  I also had a high pressure round that blew a primer and jammed up the trigger, as well as leaving the imprint of the ejector and extractor on the bullet.

I don't think this stuff likes it hot.

There was one other 75 grain load by Hornady, now discontinued. I managed to get one box from old 1998 stock and haven't shot any yet.

#80263:

Originally Posted By brasidas: I was sighting in a rifle yesterday evening with 5.56 TAP.  It was about 100 degrees, and accuracy was lousy.  I also had a high pressure round that blew a primer and jammed up the trigger, as well as leaving the imprint of the ejector and extractor on the bullet. I don't think this stuff likes it hot.

Details on the rifle?

Originally Posted By DevL: Originally Posted By brasidas: I was sighting in a rifle yesterday evening with 5.56 TAP.  It was about 100 degrees, and accuracy was lousy.  I also had a high pressure round that blew a primer and jammed up the trigger, as well as leaving the imprint of the ejector and extractor on the bullet. I don't think this stuff likes it hot. Details on the rifle?

+1

And the lot number of the ammo also please.

Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail: Originally Posted By DevL: Details on the rifle? +1 And the lot number of the ammo also please.

Rifle:  Bushmaster 16" shorty carbine, about 2,000 rounds fired (LC XM193/XM855 and IMI M193).

Ammo:  Lot#3060156.  Headstamp "HORNADY 5.56 NATO."  I have only fired about 200 rounds of this stuff in 3 range trips so far, and this is the first time I have had a problem.

I wish I had been paying a little more attention, but I recall that a right before the gun jammed up I had a shell that ejected very weakly - it just sort of fell out of the ejection port onto the bench.

Originally Posted By brasidas: Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail: Originally Posted By DevL: Details on the rifle? +1 And the lot number of the ammo also please. Rifle:  Bushmaster 16" shorty carbine, about 2,000 rounds fired (LC XM193/XM855 and IMI M193). Ammo:  Lot#3060156.  Headstamp "HORNADY 5.56 NATO."  I have only fired about 200 rounds of this stuff in 3 range trips so far, and this is the first time I have had a problem. I wish I had been paying a little more attention, but I recall that a right before the gun jammed up I had a shell that ejected very weakly - it just sort of fell out of the ejection port onto the bench.

Are your primers crimped?

Hornady started crimping their primers at some point (not sure when).

Mine is Lot#3060234 and it has the crimp.

The crimp is different from Mil and very difficult to see. It actually makes the primer look larger than SR.