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Posted: 11/20/2008 9:30:32 PM EDT
[#1]
I'm definitely interested in getting a .45 AR. Any current status updates on the major players would be appreciated.
I'm thinking I like the CNC Guns AR45 lower concept best, but how's availability of the Oly type bolt, barrel, and upper? CJ |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 11/21/2008 9:44:02 AM EDT
[#2]
OK i'm new at the this and this may be a dumb question ( forgive me guys) am I able to use the standard AR upper for my .45ar? also where do i get the barrel for this?
 
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Posted: 11/21/2008 10:28:42 AM EDT
[#3]
gigaphun, read through this whole thread and you'll have the answers you need. The overwhelming majority of .45 top ends and pieces (barrels, bolts, ejectors) are acquired from Olympic Arms, but there have been alternatives investigated by people.
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Posted: 11/21/2008 10:40:07 AM EDT
[#4]
CJ, Rainier Arms had the Oly complete upper half in stock for a long time just prior to the election day madness. I was going to go .45 instead of 9mm until I saw I couldn't use a standard 5.56 lower.
Rainier had the upper halves, and Slash in the EE had the Hahn mag block and heavy buffer. I decided I wanted to have a collapsible stock, so that left me with 9mm instead so I could use a standard lower. The Bazooka Bros lowers and others are prohibitively expensive, IMO. |
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Posted: 11/21/2008 11:50:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Desert_AIP]
[#5]
Originally Posted By gigaphun:
OK i'm new at the this and this may be a dumb question ( forgive me guys) am I able to use the standard AR upper for my .45ar? also where do i get the barrel for this? Answer, as stated, should be in above posts. You can use any upper receiver but it needs to be modified by drilling 3 holes in it for the Olympic ejector. Olympic uses a standard AR upper receiver with the forward assist (which isn't needed on a pistol cal upper). Many people, myself included, use a RRA or other (Garrison) slickside 9mm upper receiver and modify that. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 11/21/2008 2:31:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Do i still have to drill if i'm using the MGI lower with the grease gun mag well. also i got off the phone and with Olympic arms and they are telling me that its gas operated. so is it gas operated or is it a blowback operation. It sounded like the guy didn't now what he was talking about.
Thanks guys  <––––––––––––Proud to take my first step in to the pistol AR.
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Posted: 11/21/2008 2:42:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MMcfpd]
[#7]
I have two Oly .45 uppers and they're both blowbacks. The holes you need in the upper are for the Oly ejector system:
The ejector, if you use the Oly system, is independent of the lower/type of mags used. At least for the Cav Arms, BAZ45 or AR45 setups. |
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Posted: 11/21/2008 4:10:15 PM EDT
[#8]
Originally Posted By gigaphun:
Do i still have to drill if i'm using the MGI lower with the grease gun mag well. also i got off the phone and with Olympic arms and they are telling me that its gas operated. so is it gas operated or is it a blowback operation. It sounded like the guy didn't now what he was talking about. Thanks guys <––––––––––––Proud to take my first step in to the pistol AR.Yes. The Lower makes no difference. The Oly guy was drunk, they're blowback. The schematic for drilling is on TCs first post on Page 1 of this thread. |
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Posted: 12/1/2008 4:36:24 PM EDT
[#9]
so where are we getting our uppers from these days?
jonesing for a second.... |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 12/1/2008 9:44:32 PM EDT
[#10]
Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
so where are we getting our uppers from these days? jonesing for a second.... Call Oly direct. I got mine in three weeks after ordering. I'm not sure what the wait is now. |
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MD, USA
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Posted: 12/6/2008 12:57:14 PM EDT
[#11]
Anyone have 45 Super load data using Bullseye or Blue Dot? or H110?
That's all the powders I have and can't get any more due to state law until I use up a pound. Thanks! |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 12/6/2008 2:47:01 PM EDT
[#12]
I'm probably asking a question that's already been answered but the .45 Super is interesting; does it require a different chamber/barrel from the .45 ACP or just different brass?
Thanks! John |
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Posted: 12/6/2008 4:23:49 PM EDT
[#13]
Originally Posted By Andras:
Anyone have 45 Super load data using Bullseye or Blue Dot? or H110? That's all the powders I have and can't get any more due to state law until I use up a pound. Thanks! I don't have any personal data, but if you google "45 super" AND "blue dot" you should find some. What is the state law? I didn't know anywhere had such a stupid law. How do they enforce it? |
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Posted: 12/6/2008 4:27:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: only1asterisk]
[#14]
Originally Posted By MAJC:
I'm probably asking a question that's already been answered but the .45 Super is interesting; does it require a different chamber/barrel from the .45 ACP or just different brass? Thanks! John The chamber is the same. What all a .45 AR needs to live longterm shooting .45 Supers is yet to be determined. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 12/6/2008 4:34:33 PM EDT
[#15]
Hodgdon provides .45 Super data, as does Realguns. The chamber dimensions are the same as .45 ACP, but the brass is different.
I am not too sure about how well a blowback action would fare with .45 Super level loads. I am willing to let some one else blaze that trail. |
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Posted: 12/6/2008 7:32:36 PM EDT
[#16]
Originally Posted By grendelbane:
Hodgdon provides .45 Super data, as does Realguns. The chamber dimensions are the same as .45 ACP, but the brass is different. I am not too sure about how well a blowback action would fare with .45 Super level loads. I am willing to let some one else blaze that trail. To be honest, I was doubtful at first but Tangochaser's run a little bit through his uppers and it seems to be plausible enough. I'm going to be doing some work on this myself once component prices go back down. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 12/6/2008 9:03:30 PM EDT
[#17]
Originally Posted By only1asterisk:
Originally Posted By MAJC:
I'm probably asking a question that's already been answered but the .45 Super is interesting; does it require a different chamber/barrel from the .45 ACP or just different brass? Thanks! John The chamber is the same. What all a .45 AR needs to live longterm is yet to be determined. one of my Oly 45 uppers has over 15000 rnds through it and still shoots great groups. I purchased that upper back in the early 1990's |
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Posted: 12/6/2008 10:10:42 PM EDT
[#18]
Originally Posted By Redtazdog:
Originally Posted By only1asterisk:
Originally Posted By MAJC:
I'm probably asking a question that's already been answered but the .45 Super is interesting; does it require a different chamber/barrel from the .45 ACP or just different brass? Thanks! John The chamber is the same. What all a .45 AR needs to live longterm is yet to be determined. one of my Oly 45 uppers has over 15000 rnds through it and still shoots great groups. I purchased that upper back in the early 1990's 15k .45 Super rounds? That's was my intended meaning. I'll edit my post to clear up any confusion. |
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MD, USA
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Posted: 12/6/2008 11:05:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Changed]
[#19]
Originally Posted By only1asterisk:
Originally Posted By Andras:
Anyone have 45 Super load data using Bullseye or Blue Dot? or H110? That's all the powders I have and can't get any more due to state law until I use up a pound. Thanks! I don't have any personal data, but if you google "45 super" AND "blue dot" you should find some. What is the state law? I didn't know anywhere had such a stupid law. How do they enforce it? MD Fire Marshal says you can only have 5# without a state explosives license. True that it might be difficult to catch someone on it, but... I'm at 4 3/4# right now. I bought 1# too much H110 for my .357s to get rid of quickly. I found the Hodgden data, but I don't have any of the powder they list. ETA- anyone know what the Max PSI for 45 Super is? I have some 45acp data that goes up to 21kpsi, and thought I might be able to use that. |
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Posted: 12/7/2008 5:50:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TANGOCHASER]
[#20]
I have a video on youtube of me shooting .45 Super in my AR45. Look under AR45. Works fine but I can't speak to longevity as I've only fired a mag or two. The stiffer buffer spring 1* is working on and the Hahn buffer should go a long way to making the gun long term reliable.
And as I've mentioned before. You can shoot .45 ACP hollow points from a Sten mag by opening up the feed lips. .45 ACP FMJ are too long. Use any standard AR lower, a 9mm magwell adapter for Sten mags and go to town. Sten mags hold 15-17 rds of .45. Check youtube for ".45 in a Sten" and you can see my fat ass shooting .45 HP out of a Sten. And no that's not a two shoot FA, that lower bumpfires very easy. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 12/7/2008 8:15:11 PM EDT
[#21]
I have fired a few .45 Super loads from my CavOly AR45. A few as in 3 or 4, and they were not maximum loads either. 2 of them were 275 grain cast bullets, however.
The brass seems to take the pressure quite well. Mech-Tech at one time offered their blowback carbine conversions in .460 Rowland, which is even higher pressure than the .45 Super. But, then they stopped. I am not saying it is a bad idea, just that for some reason my conservatism won out this time. CavArms says the receiver cracks if you don't use the heavy buffer. So, I worry about the bolt velocity passing some thresh-hold, not really knowing what that level is. I also prefer the heavier bullets, which makes the situation even worse. Discretion is the better part of valour. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 12/11/2008 5:49:09 PM EDT
[#22]
Andras: Your compliance with fire marshall regs is commendable. My guess is that is is also rare among hand loading ARFcommers. My jurisdictions limit is 25# and I'm not looking for an inspection.
If you google 45 Super you can get some load data for the cartridge for pistols which have uprated recoil springs. The basis of the 45 super is thicker brass in the head. This allows the cartridge to operate at 28-30,000 psi like a 9mm, .40 or 10mm rather than 17-19,000 psi like the old time .45 ACP. Starline makes the brass and Midway has it for sale. Keep track of your loads and the brass, however, as they are too high for regular .45 ACP brass. The dimensions of the cartridge are identical to .45 ACP. You are likely good to go with an Oly blow back upper unless you have an out of battery discharge. The geometry of the Oly bolt will allow this (hammer will hit the firing pin even if bolt is not all the way forward) and if it happens with a 45 Super your magazine will become disassembled and you may split the lower receiver at the front of the mag well if you are using a Cav. Arms plastic lower. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 12/16/2008 8:28:41 PM EDT
[#23]
Tango and team, has anyone had any luck with these complete AR45s?
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Posted: 12/17/2008 3:54:04 AM EDT
[#24]
I spoke to the manufacturer and he said those were made from steel lower receivers with a welded on MAC10 magwell. He got the 80% steel lowers from Tannery Shop but they no longer offer them.
As far as I know there are no more available. Looks like a good design though. |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 12/20/2008 9:28:12 PM EDT
[#25]
Originally Posted By slickside35:
Originally Posted By TANGOCHASER:
Hey TC, contact me by e-mail at [email protected], I have a thousand questions to ask you about the modifications to the upper and lower halves using Thompson Mags. Also regarding the mods to the bolt, etc.
Requires a whole new design to use thompson mags. They are longer front to rear due to the rib on the back and anew mag release slot would have to be cut into the mag. Having to modify the mags negates any cost savings over a GG mag. I do have one prototype Ar45 lower that uses Thompson and GG mags iterchangeably. I haven't had time to finish the design but a Thompson mag also requires mods to the bolt carrier and the upper receiver. These mods make it more expensive than the AR45 for GG mags. Bobby McKellar JRM Tactical Gunsmithing, Inc. Ashdown, AR 71822 Hey Tango, found a LaFrance handguard! Got it coming by end of week after next. Just got my upper and lower assy mod'd to use Thompson mags. Waiting on the barrel..gonna start my work on direct impingement using standard carrie and MGI Military Bolt for .458 SOCOM (same case head size as 45 ACP). Hope it works..if so then this'll be a real cool setup. Mod's aren't that hard after all, got a buddy that's doin' them on this first set and is setting up the CNC with the info. Also a mag filler block for the front end of the mag well doubling as a feed ramp. Wish me luck! |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 12/24/2008 10:56:06 AM EDT
[#26]
i bought a armalite in .45 acp, not sure what conversion was done to it but was wondering what has to be done to convert back to .223
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OH, USA
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Posted: 12/24/2008 1:03:56 PM EDT
[#27]
For thise of you that have them, the AR45 lowers that are made by CNC Gunsmithing does the last round bolt hold open still work when mag is empty or do you have to cycle the charging handle every time you change mags?
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KY, USA
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Posted: 12/24/2008 1:32:09 PM EDT
[#28]
Originally Posted By ajc6476:
For thise of you that have them, the AR45 lowers that are made by CNC Gunsmithing does the last round bolt hold open still work when mag is empty or do you have to cycle the charging handle every time you change mags? You have to manually charge the weapon at magazine change. Unmodified Grease-gun magazines have no provision to activate a bolt catch. It might be possible to retrofit some sort of system to actuate the bolt catch when the mag is dry, but it would almost certainly involve extensive modification to the magazines. I don't believe anyone has actually done this yet. |
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Posted: 12/25/2008 12:11:05 AM EDT
[#29]
Originally Posted By larryjr:
i bought a armalite in .45 acp, not sure what conversion was done to it but was wondering what has to be done to convert back to .223 Without any more detail, I'm guessing you got a rifle with an ArmaLite lower and most likely an Oly .45 upper. Does it have an ejector that looks like this?
And do the bolt carrier and bolt look like those on the right below? 
If so, that's an Oly system. Your ArmaLite lower is almost certainly a standard lower that you can use as is with a .223/5.56 upper. Once again, though, without more details I can't say that is definite. Whether your upper is an Oly or some other custom build, if you don't want a .45 sell it rather than try to convert it to a .223/5.56. Just buy a standard upper. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 12/25/2008 10:56:27 AM EDT
[#30]
Originally Posted By MMcfpd:
Originally Posted By larryjr:
i bought a armalite in .45 acp, not sure what conversion was done to it but was wondering what has to be done to convert back to .223 Without any more detail, I'm guessing you got a rifle with an ArmaLite lower and most likely an Oly .45 upper. I'd guess that he got one of the Cav-Arms lowers that Armalite sells under their brand name. FWIW; AFAIK; IMHO; YMMV; yadda, yadda, yadda. Regards, Ed Mann [email protected] Bobby Bowden is doing a fine job - just leave him alone. 
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Posted: 12/25/2008 11:32:47 AM EDT
[#31]
Originally Posted By edlmann:
Originally Posted By MMcfpd:
Originally Posted By larryjr:
i bought a armalite in .45 acp, not sure what conversion was done to it but was wondering what has to be done to convert back to .223 Without any more detail, I'm guessing you got a rifle with an ArmaLite lower and most likely an Oly .45 upper. I'd guess that he got one of the Cav-Arms lowers that Armalite sells under their brand name. Yeah, I forgot about those (Eagle?). If that's the case he can still use it as is with a standard upper. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 12/27/2008 10:01:26 PM EDT
[#32]
I assembled my AR45 lower tonight and it went together with no problems. Function check was fine. Now I just need my Grease Gun mags delivered so I can shoot it!
It was kind of interesting putting the LPK in as I've been spoiled with the AR-15 tools- especially the mag block that holds it in a vise! The mag catch is installed with two roll pins but is the only difference from putting together a regular lower. If it functions as well as it's manufactured and as well as it went together this will be a great weapon! And I'm not expecting anything less... John |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 12/31/2008 4:54:25 PM EDT
[#33]
I just put together my .45acp lower last night. Built it on a CavArms CAV15 MkII lower. Used a STAG lower parts kit for the internals. Got a buffer and spring from the fellow who also sold me the Oly .45acp upper. He had used this set up on his own .45 carbine.
Now my problem(?) is when I draw the bolt to the rear, the bolt doesn't clear the bolt catch and I can't lock the bolt back. My biq question is, is this a problem or is this how it should operate? Is it safe to fire like this or do I need to do something different? Oh yeah, using grease gun mags and the Hahn mag block. Thanks for whatever help you can give! And happy New Year to all of you! |
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Posted: 12/31/2008 8:09:47 PM EDT
[#34]
My Oly upper will just barely lock the bolt back with the catch. Sometimes I have to manually push the bolt catch to lock it back. Doesn't hurt operation otherwise.
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Posted: 12/31/2008 9:45:05 PM EDT
[#35]
Operation of the bolt catch with my Oly upper was skiddish at best. IF it held, the slightest bump would knock it loose. I said hell with it, switched to a Spikes ST-9X Buffer (heavy and too long for the bolt catch to possibly work), function is great supressed, just no bolt hold open......
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Posted: 12/31/2008 10:23:39 PM EDT
[#36]
Posted by 4803Phase;
My Oly upper will just barely lock the bolt back with the catch. Sometimes I have to manually push the bolt catch to lock it back. Doesn't hurt operation otherwise. What mags are you using that allow the use of the bolt catch? GG mags do not have a provision for a mag catch. If you manually lock the Oly bolt back and it is not staying, it's a bad bolt catch. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 12/31/2008 11:24:47 PM EDT
[#37]
I can't bring the bolt back far enough to engage the bolt catch at all,mag or no mag.
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Posted: 12/31/2008 11:45:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: chapperjoe]
[#38]
I can easily lock the bolt back manually with my cav/oly build
if you can't odds are you have the wrong spring. IMO of course. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 1/1/2009 12:04:19 AM EDT
[#39]
Originally Posted By kaiheitai17:
I can't bring the bolt back far enough to engage the bolt catch at all,mag or no mag. Are you using a rifle buffer in a carbine stock ? |
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Posted: 1/1/2009 9:46:56 AM EDT
[#40]
Posted by 4803Phase;
My Oly upper will just barely lock the bolt back with the catch. Sometimes I have to manually push the bolt catch to lock it back. Doesn't hurt operation otherwise. What mags are you using that allow the use of the bolt catch? GG mags do not have a provision for a mag catch. If you manually lock the Oly bolt back and it is not staying, it's a bad bolt catch. I have an early Oly upper with the converted Uzi mag, Hahn buffer, and carbine spring. To clarify––If I pull the bolt back and then engage the bolt catch, it may or may not catch. If I hold the bolt catch down and smartly charge the bolt, it catches. It seems as tho the bolt barely passes the catch. Maybe K17's doesn't quite make it. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 1/1/2009 12:55:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: kaiheitai17]
[#41]
I'll check if it is a rifle buffer. I may just go ahead and order a new wolff spring and .45 acp buffer just to be sure. What I am using is what I got from the fellow who had this system on top of his CavArms lower.
Thanks for the info, I'm off to check on this now! Happy New Years everyone! ETA: Just measured the buffer. It is 8 & 1/8 ounces (about right according to Slash's big buffer chart on page 10 of this thread) and it is 3 & 3/4 inch long, which is .5 inch too long according to the same chart. Hmmmm? How does this stack up to what every one else has? Think I ought to order a new buffer? |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 1/1/2009 3:23:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Redtazdog]
[#42]
Originally Posted By kaiheitai17:
I'll check if it is a rifle buffer. I may just go ahead and order a new wolff spring and .45 acp buffer just to be sure. What I am using is what I got from the fellow who had this system on top of his CavArms lower. Thanks for the info, I'm off to check on this now! Happy New Years everyone! ETA: Just measured the buffer. It is 8 & 1/8 ounces (about right according to Slash's big buffer chart on page 10 of this thread) and it is 3 & 3/4 inch long, which is .5 inch too long according to the same chart. Hmmmm? How does this stack up to what every one else has? Think I ought to order a new buffer? . If you pull the charge handle back and look in the ejection port window you can see how far back the bolt goes. While holding back the bolt engage the bolt hold back by hand and look in the window to see if it comes up in front of the bolt. I wonder if you have the rifle spring and it could be restricting how far your bolt goes back ? I dont know if those lowers use rifle or carbine springs. My buffer is 3 & 11/16 inches long. |
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Posted: 1/1/2009 4:04:05 PM EDT
[#43]
The MKll lowers use the carbine length spring.
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WA, USA
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Posted: 1/1/2009 6:25:15 PM EDT
[#44]
Originally Posted By 4803PHASE:
The MKll lowers use the carbine length spring. I thought they did but wasnt positive. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 1/1/2009 11:34:39 PM EDT
[#45]
I have a Hahn Precision sub-caliber buffer in it. I pull the bolt back and it stops backward motion before the bolt face can clear the bolt hold open. It looks like the bolt needs to come back maybe another one eighth to one quarter of an inch. Maybe I do have a rifle length buffer spring?
Any body have any idea how long the spring should be in its uncompressed state? |
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Posted: 1/2/2009 12:05:18 AM EDT
[#46]
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VA, USA
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Posted: 1/2/2009 11:54:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: kaiheitai17]
[#47]
WOW! Thanks! That was quick. ETA: Just measured the buffer spring, 12 1/2". I've got a rifle length spring in it! Guess I best go find a carbine length. Thanks to everyone who offered info, advice and assistance! |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 1/2/2009 6:54:43 PM EDT
[#48]
Originally Posted By kaiheitai17:
Originally Posted By MMcfpd:
ETA: Just measured the buffer spring, 12 1/2". I've got a rifle length spring in it! Guess I best go find a carbine length. Let me recommend the Wolff carbine spring. FWIW; AFAIK; IMHO; YMMV; yadda, yadda, yadda. Regards, Ed Mann [email protected] Bobby Bowden is doing a fine job - just leave him alone.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 1/5/2009 3:51:48 PM EDT
[#49]
Guys here is the MGI Lower with the grease gun Mag well It has the ejector already on it so very little moding of the upper is needed. you obviously have to the their MGI BCG to make it fit the mag.
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VA, USA
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Posted: 1/11/2009 3:12:48 PM EDT
[#50]
when will this be released by mgi??? hopefully before all ar variants dissapear under the new and improved awb
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