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Posted: 4/19/2016 4:04:29 PM EDT
[#1]
They have not disappeared just lost popularity. Why buy a piston rifle when you can get a DI for cheaper, weighs less, and really is not a big difference in reliability.
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Posted: 4/19/2016 4:13:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They have not disappeared just lost popularity. Why buy a piston rifle when you can get a DI for cheaper, weighs less, and really is not a big difference in reliability. FPNI 
It really turned into way too much money/weight/proprietary hardware with not enough return. Really unnecessary and became somewhat of a novelty. |
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Posted: 4/19/2016 4:42:05 PM EDT
[#3]
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FPNI
It really turned into way too much money/weight/proprietary hardware with not enough return. Really unnecessary and became somewhat of a novelty. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They have not disappeared just lost popularity. Why buy a piston rifle when you can get a DI for cheaper, weighs less, and really is not a big difference in reliability. FPNI
It really turned into way too much money/weight/proprietary hardware with not enough return. Really unnecessary and became somewhat of a novelty. Had a standard been chosen I bet it might have gained more ground. This is why the 308 AR has gained more ground lately with a lot of makers standardizing on BCG, mag, etc etc. |
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Posted: 4/19/2016 4:42:52 PM EDT
[#4]
I'm still seeing a lot of them (Adams, Ruger, POF, LWRC, H&K, RRA, etc) out there. DI may be the most popular, but there are certainly other options.
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Posted: 4/19/2016 5:15:43 PM EDT
[#5]
Topic Moved
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Posted: 4/19/2016 5:23:19 PM EDT
[#6]
Don't believe the myth that pistons are heavy. I have a sub 5 lbs piston built Carbine.
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Posted: 4/19/2016 6:54:02 PM EDT
[#7]
They are still around, some good and others less so. I tried out several before I found one that works for me. The LMTs and Adams are nice. Not as big of a fan of the retro-fit DI uppers (tried a Colt with a Bushmaster piston). For me there are 2 camps, pistons that still depend on the buffer (tube and spring) and those that do not (all in the upper). For my final piston choice I went with an ARAK-21. Its a higher price system, but worth every penny. I use it for both AR rifle and pistol. Also use it for 300AAC and 5.56 (its a multi caliber upper), with plans to add 7.62x39. It is a bit front heavy, but nothing so bad that a 90lb girl could not handle.
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Posted: 4/19/2016 7:30:16 PM EDT
[#8]
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Don't believe the myth that pistons are heavy. I have a sub 5 lbs piston built Carbine. Not a piston hater, but your rifle would be even lighter if it was DI. With less parts. No getting around that. |
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Posted: 4/19/2016 7:30:25 PM EDT
[#9]
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Don't believe the myth that pistons are heavy. I have a sub 5 lbs piston built Carbine. This. I wasn't going for lightweight but my SBR piston with a Superlative Arms was 5 lbs before optic. People have been complaining about the weight and lack of low profile blocks. This one is the tits and runs great. ETA: Their kit only adds 1.2 ounces or something like that. |
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Posted: 4/19/2016 8:41:03 PM EDT
[#10]
War wound down...people aren't shooting as much...guns don't break or wear out unless you are shooting a lot.
DI works...it just doesn't endure well. For the shooting most people do, DI is adequate. |
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Posted: 4/19/2016 8:45:56 PM EDT
[#11]
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War wound down...people aren't shooting as much...guns don't break or wear out unless you are shooting a lot. DI works...it just doesn't endure well. For the shooting most people do, DI is adequate. By all reports most of the piston systems break much more frequently and sooner than DI guns. |
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Posted: 4/19/2016 9:05:42 PM EDT
[#12]
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By all reports most of the piston systems break much more frequently and sooner than DI guns. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
War wound down...people aren't shooting as much...guns don't break or wear out unless you are shooting a lot. DI works...it just doesn't endure well. For the shooting most people do, DI is adequate. By all reports most of the piston systems break much more frequently and sooner than DI guns. No not really.... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/677135_.html&page=1&sr=0 http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_64/159106_AK_abuse__home_built_version_update_on_Page_6_.html&page=1 - This may sound crazy but it's fair to say that they finally suffer a catastrophic failure (cracked trunion) at 80,000-100,000 rounds. Also, we have WASR's that have suffered a catastrophic failure and we just pull out the old trunion and barrel, grab one from a parts kit, re-rivet, re-barrel and get them up and running.
V/R Ron Would it be nice to get 100,000 rounds out of a AR BCG?.... |
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Posted: 4/19/2016 9:13:45 PM EDT
[#13]
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No not really.... We're talking about ARs, not AKs. And from Henderson's thread on ARs, they ditched all piston ARs but the HK because they break. Also, the ARs keep going well past 80,000-100,000 rounds without the catastrophic failures that the AKs have. |
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Posted: 4/19/2016 9:14:34 PM EDT
[#14]
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Have been out of the loop for a bit. 8+ years ago pistons where supposed to be the awesome next step for the AR. Now it seems like they have disappeared. What happened? http://soldiersystems.net/2016/03/31/rumor-has-it-hk-wins-csass/ |
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Posted: 4/19/2016 9:22:35 PM EDT
[#15]
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We're talking about ARs, not AKs. And from Henderson's thread on ARs, they ditched all piston ARs but the HK because they break. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No not really.... We're talking about ARs, not AKs. And from Henderson's thread on ARs, they ditched all piston ARs but the HK because they break. Everything breaks....They didn't want to carry all the extra different parts for different AR's...this doesn't make them inferior.... I think I would run the HK over DI with suppressor use and/or select fire.. |
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Posted: 4/19/2016 9:24:29 PM EDT
[#16]
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We're talking about ARs, not AKs. And from Henderson's thread on ARs, they ditched all piston ARs but the HK because they break. Also, the ARs keep going well past 80,000-100,000 rounds without the catastrophic failures that the AKs have. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No not really.... We're talking about ARs, not AKs. And from Henderson's thread on ARs, they ditched all piston ARs but the HK because they break. Also, the ARs keep going well past 80,000-100,000 rounds without the catastrophic failures that the AKs have. We are talking the about operating system....lol |
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Posted: 4/19/2016 10:53:40 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
By all reports most of the piston systems break much more frequently and sooner than DI guns. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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War wound down...people aren't shooting as much...guns don't break or wear out unless you are shooting a lot. DI works...it just doesn't endure well. For the shooting most people do, DI is adequate. By all reports most of the piston systems break much more frequently and sooner than DI guns. The discount versions do. LWRCI and 416s do not. If money is an issue...DI is better. If you only shoot a few thousand rounds a year and don't own a suppressor...DI is fine. If you shoot 10,000 rounds in a workup and run a suppressor constantly...you would benifit from a piston gun. |
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Posted: 4/19/2016 10:59:48 PM EDT
[#18]
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We are talking the about operating system....lol Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No not really.... We're talking about ARs, not AKs. And from Henderson's thread on ARs, they ditched all piston ARs but the HK because they break. Also, the ARs keep going well past 80,000-100,000 rounds without the catastrophic failures that the AKs have. We are talking the about operating system....lol Of two entirely different rifles. Fair comparison would be something like an LMT MRP DI vs LMT MRP piston, LWRC DI vs LWRC M5, Colt 6940 vs Colt 6940P, SIG you get the picture. Rifles that are more or less the same in every way but for DI/Piston. Personally, I think either flavor from one of the reputable companies will work just fine. Pistons have their place, I've always thought they worked better in shorter barrels and with silencers. |
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Posted: 4/20/2016 10:35:00 AM EDT
[#19]
Well you have companies that quit making them like Stag. And companies like Sig not doing any upgrades.
I'm not sure expense is an issue. I bought my Pws for less than a Daniel Defense. Very happy with my Pws |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 10:10:52 PM EDT
[#20]
Costs is the main reason sales were slow. Why pay $1500 for an upper when you can have two decent DI rifles for that amount? Peace
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Posted: 4/22/2016 10:59:59 PM EDT
[#21]
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War wound down...people aren't shooting as much...guns don't break or wear out unless you are shooting a lot. DI works...it just doesn't endure well. For the shooting most people do, DI is adequate. Huh? Because of all the piston guns being taken to war? |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 11:10:49 PM EDT
[#22]
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Huh? Because of all the piston guns being taken to war? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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War wound down...people aren't shooting as much...guns don't break or wear out unless you are shooting a lot. DI works...it just doesn't endure well. For the shooting most people do, DI is adequate. Huh? Because of all the piston guns being taken to war? Ask the Marines. |
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Posted: 4/23/2016 7:49:23 PM EDT
[#23]
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Ask the Marines. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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War wound down...people aren't shooting as much...guns don't break or wear out unless you are shooting a lot. DI works...it just doesn't endure well. For the shooting most people do, DI is adequate. Huh? Because of all the piston guns being taken to war? Ask the Marines. The M27 hit the fleet on a limited basis in 2011, when things in Iraq had largely wrapped up and Afganistan had already wound down. It took until '13 for about 6,500 to be deployed and represented a tiny fraction of rifles to see service in line units. Therefore, this has absolutely nothing to do with your hypothesis. Try again. Where were all these piston guns going to war? |
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Posted: 4/24/2016 2:17:57 AM EDT
[#24]
SEALS (DEVGRU specifically)
Green Berets / DELTA (CAG)
CIA SAD All began use back when the fighting was still heavy. Mostly they use/used 10.5" HK416 carbines. One with an AAC 416-SD was used to kill Bin Laden, in case you were unaware. |
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Posted: 4/24/2016 6:40:47 AM EDT
[#25]
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The M27 hit the fleet on a limited basis in 2011, when things in Iraq had largely wrapped up and Afganistan had already wound down. It took until '13 for about 6,500 to be deployed and represented a tiny fraction of rifles to see service in line units. Therefore, this has absolutely nothing to do with your hypothesis. Try again. Where were all these piston guns going to war? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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War wound down...people aren't shooting as much...guns don't break or wear out unless you are shooting a lot. DI works...it just doesn't endure well. For the shooting most people do, DI is adequate. Huh? Because of all the piston guns being taken to war? Ask the Marines. The M27 hit the fleet on a limited basis in 2011, when things in Iraq had largely wrapped up and Afganistan had already wound down. It took until '13 for about 6,500 to be deployed and represented a tiny fraction of rifles to see service in line units. Therefore, this has absolutely nothing to do with your hypothesis. Try again. Where were all these piston guns going to war? In the hands of the guys who used one to shoot UBL. Or the guys who captured Sadam and sons... |
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Posted: 4/24/2016 9:46:38 AM EDT
[#26]
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In the hands of the guys who used one to shoot UBL. Or the guys who captured Sadam and sons... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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War wound down...people aren't shooting as much...guns don't break or wear out unless you are shooting a lot. DI works...it just doesn't endure well. For the shooting most people do, DI is adequate. Huh? Because of all the piston guns being taken to war? Ask the Marines. The M27 hit the fleet on a limited basis in 2011, when things in Iraq had largely wrapped up and Afganistan had already wound down. It took until '13 for about 6,500 to be deployed and represented a tiny fraction of rifles to see service in line units. Therefore, this has absolutely nothing to do with your hypothesis. Try again. Where were all these piston guns going to war? In the hands of the guys who used one to shoot UBL. Or the guys who captured Sadam and sons... 416's et.al. represent less than a tenth of a percent of deployed rifles. You're really, REALLY stretching with the notion that piston rifles are fading due to a perceived lack of need for increased wear tolerance. If anything, now that the M27 has come on line I'd hazard to guess there are MORE piston rifles out there since the drawdowns. |
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Posted: 4/24/2016 9:51:29 AM EDT
[#27]
Double
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Posted: 4/24/2016 9:07:31 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
War wound down...people aren't shooting as much...guns don't break or wear out unless you are shooting a lot. DI works...it just doesn't endure well. For the shooting most people do, DI is adequate. lol, DI guns "endure" just fine. Unless of course you know something .mil doesn't. 
ETA: This thread needs moved to GD, I'm calling the shitshow right now. |
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Posted: 4/24/2016 9:16:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Delete
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Posted: 4/24/2016 10:10:26 PM EDT
[#30]
CDNN Sports is selling complete LWRC piston uppers at a great price
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Posted: 4/25/2016 12:18:41 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lol, DI guns "endure" just fine. Unless of course you know something .mil doesn't.
ETA: This thread needs moved to GD, I'm calling the shitshow right now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
War wound down...people aren't shooting as much...guns don't break or wear out unless you are shooting a lot. DI works...it just doesn't endure well. For the shooting most people do, DI is adequate. lol, DI guns "endure" just fine. Unless of course you know something .mil doesn't.
ETA: This thread needs moved to GD, I'm calling the shitshow right now. Agreed, I can't imagine this isn't a troll thread. I happen to be a piston fan, but I don't throw my opinions on either side. Shoot what males you happy. Live and let live. For the record I suppose, I have used my lame ass piston gun in Afghanistan. It worked just as well as my issued DI gun. I appreciated the slightly less maintenance but that moon dust gets everywhere no matter what. SOS |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 10:30:46 PM EDT
[#32]
I thought about a piston AR until I tried the Steyr Aug.
Maybe bullpups are getting more popular. I love the Aug. Short yet fast and doesn't need much lube. Talk about clean running. The short stroke gas system works perfectly. Still love the AR but the bullpup platform works great for close encounters. |
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Posted: 4/30/2016 1:25:43 PM EDT
[#33]
I believe key milestones with the ar15 would be the picatinny rails and the AWB of 95. The popularly of the ar15 rose exponentially when the picatinny rails first came out as people saw you can customize the heck out of the ar15 and just so coincidentally any company can take the ar15 specs and make their own flavor of it and nobody would have to worry too much about finding something not compatible. Parts and customization interchangeability came into key play. Then the AWB of 95 happened and suddenly everyone was going nuts for parts and when the AWB of 95 expirered that's when we saw the mega boom in the market.
The piston just wasn't able to standardize itself so people had to go to one company. Of course price is a major factor too but that is only because company A only made it, and only company A offered parts for it. Take the MR556A1 by HK. 10 years from now finding parts for it is going to be impossible. So I think as soon as someone standardize the piston and more than two companies make it, I think you'll see a big boom in terms of demands. |
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