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Posted: 12/29/2015 6:43:38 PM EDT
[#1]
aimpoint H1 with Bobro mount
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Posted: 12/30/2015 1:33:26 AM EDT
[#2]
When I got my 216 mod 1 almost 2 years ago. I immediately changed out the MOE stock and pistol grip. I put an Atlas bipod and a Steiner M5Xi 1-5 scope on it. I also bought a couple of the Larue 762 mags for it.
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Posted: 12/30/2015 11:59:32 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I got my 216 mod 1 almost 2 years ago. I immediately changed out the MOE stock and pistol grip. I put an Atlas bipod and a Steiner M5Xi 1-5 scope on it. I also bought a couple of the Larue 762 mags for it. This was going to be my exact suggestion.... However, if you still need to de-fib your Visa card, you can grab the previous generation Steiner Military at Europoptic for $699. The only difference is that it's a 1-4X rather than the 1-5X of the current version. I have one of each and they're excellent. Hard to find better glass. |
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Posted: 12/31/2015 1:05:29 PM EDT
[#4]
I have a mk216, and would highly recommend swapping out the stock. I opted for the STR, and am very happy. I would also agree with others that have recommended a variable optic...I have used the Vortex PST 1-4 and PST 2.5-10.
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Posted: 1/1/2016 12:10:34 AM EDT
[#5]
Congrats on the new AR! I'm considering the same model to go with a MK110.
Still trying to make up my mind though.
Has anyone tried the spring loaded stocks on these .308 AR's like CAA or Mako? I shot a POF with one of these stocks on it and it was like shooting a heavy .22! |
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Posted: 1/4/2016 2:43:18 AM EDT
[#6]
Congrats, you bought an amazing rifle. You will love it. I have to agree with the previous posts, change out the stock, irons and grip. Also would highly recommend a variable 1- x scope. If you can afford a 1-6 x go that route. I have a trijicon 1-4x on my mk114 and absolutely love it. I prefer it over the eotech on my bcm 12.5 build, but different guns for different shenanigans.
Congrats again |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 9:28:21 PM EDT
[#7]
I wanted to thank you guys for the recommendations. I have had plenty to lust over for the new rifle when she arrives.
I am glad I got my order in back on 12/16 before the recent surge in sales. Hopefully I am ahead of a long backorder wait time. I could have purchased it on Gunbroker and had it shipped directly to a local FFL. But I wanted to give the local guy my business but now I am getting twitchy. Hopefully I will get some idea when it may arrive. In the meantime, I an starting to narrow in on the Aimpoint option and looking at tripods. What would you recommend for a tripod mount for the keymod rail? Harbinger |
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Posted: 1/9/2016 10:42:39 PM EDT
[#8]
OP you made a great choice with PWS!
However I've got a question for the veteran shooters on here: How does 308 perform out of a 14" barrel? I got a mk220 and looooove it and would love to give it a smaller sibling but I've heard that 308 starts to mimic 300blk ballistically the shorter you go due to unburned powder or something. I heard this from a lgs employee so idk what to believe. What do you guys think? |
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Posted: 1/10/2016 8:49:58 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP you made a great choice with PWS! However I've got a question for the veteran shooters on here: How does 308 perform out of a 14" barrel? I got a mk220 and looooove it and would love to give it a smaller sibling but I've heard that 308 starts to mimic 300blk ballistically the shorter you go due to unburned powder or something. I heard this from a lgs employee so idk what to believe. What do you guys think? It is funny you ask this, because I was at my local PWS dealer this weekend "checking in" to see if they had an estimate for the date of delivery. The salesman at the counter was a different guy than the one I ordered the MK214 from, and he made it sound like the shorter barrel was a bad choice. He said a .308 will not be stabilized when it exits the barrel. After my visit, I came home and did a little research. My observation of the information available makes me think this is a hotly debated topic. I also plan on doing my own reloading and see that a faster burning powder would be a good choice for the shorter barrel. |
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Posted: 1/11/2016 1:15:02 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is funny you ask this, because I was at my local PWS dealer this weekend "checking in" to see if they had an estimate for the date of delivery. The salesman at the counter was a different guy than the one I ordered the MK214 from, and he made it sound like the shorter barrel was a bad choice. He said a .308 will not be stabilized when it exits the barrel. After my visit, I came home and did a little research. My observation of the information available makes me think this is a hotly debated topic. I also plan on doing my own reloading and see that a faster burning powder would be a good choice for the shorter barrel. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
OP you made a great choice with PWS! However I've got a question for the veteran shooters on here: How does 308 perform out of a 14" barrel? I got a mk220 and looooove it and would love to give it a smaller sibling but I've heard that 308 starts to mimic 300blk ballistically the shorter you go due to unburned powder or something. I heard this from a lgs employee so idk what to believe. What do you guys think? It is funny you ask this, because I was at my local PWS dealer this weekend "checking in" to see if they had an estimate for the date of delivery. The salesman at the counter was a different guy than the one I ordered the MK214 from, and he made it sound like the shorter barrel was a bad choice. He said a .308 will not be stabilized when it exits the barrel. After my visit, I came home and did a little research. My observation of the information available makes me think this is a hotly debated topic. I also plan on doing my own reloading and see that a faster burning powder would be a good choice for the shorter barrel. Salesman is an idiot. The Mk214 is a bad choice if you want to be shooting out to 800 meters, but for practical shooting out to 500, it's just fine. The only thing you're losing is velocity, not stabilization.... PWS uses a 1:10 twist. All the powder is burned in the first couple of inches of barrel.... The remainder of the barrel increases velocity simply due to the presence of hot, expanding gasses. |
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Posted: 1/11/2016 1:26:22 PM EDT
[#11]
Nice. I've been looking at the MK212SD.
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Posted: 1/14/2016 8:40:15 PM EDT
[#12]
Saturday will be one month since I ordered my Mk214 from my local dealer and gave him a 50% deposit. If I go to the PWS website it says the Mark 2's are in stock. Starting to wonder if my local dealer is giving me the run around. ....
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Posted: 1/21/2016 10:05:07 AM EDT
[#13]
Good to know about length only altering velocity and not stabilization and all the powder getting burned within the first few inches.
As for them giving you the run around, it's possible but the entire industry is super busy right now. Last month the hajis attacked San Bernardino prompting our dear leader to push his new gun control exec order. That caused a pretty decent panic induced buying frenzy. It wasn't as ridiculous as the 2012 sandy hook panic hat literally lasted like 18 months but manufacturers are still selling everything they got pretty quick right now. Plus, PWS probably was very busy retooling and getting ready for the release of their mod2 meaning less machines cranking out mod1's. I can't speak to your local FFL but I've dealt with PWS in the past and they were very professional, Quick to answer my emails and when I finally placed an order it was at my FFL in less than a week. |
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Posted: 2/3/2016 12:34:37 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Salesman is an idiot. The Mk214 is a bad choice if you want to be shooting out to 800 meters, but for practical shooting out to 500, it's just fine. The only thing you're losing is velocity, not stabilization.... PWS uses a 1:10 twist. All the powder is burned in the first couple of inches of barrel.... The remainder of the barrel increases velocity simply due to the presence of hot, expanding gasses. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
OP you made a great choice with PWS! However I've got a question for the veteran shooters on here: How does 308 perform out of a 14" barrel? I got a mk220 and looooove it and would love to give it a smaller sibling but I've heard that 308 starts to mimic 300blk ballistically the shorter you go due to unburned powder or something. I heard this from a lgs employee so idk what to believe. What do you guys think? It is funny you ask this, because I was at my local PWS dealer this weekend "checking in" to see if they had an estimate for the date of delivery. The salesman at the counter was a different guy than the one I ordered the MK214 from, and he made it sound like the shorter barrel was a bad choice. He said a .308 will not be stabilized when it exits the barrel. After my visit, I came home and did a little research. My observation of the information available makes me think this is a hotly debated topic. I also plan on doing my own reloading and see that a faster burning powder would be a good choice for the shorter barrel. Salesman is an idiot. The Mk214 is a bad choice if you want to be shooting out to 800 meters, but for practical shooting out to 500, it's just fine. The only thing you're losing is velocity, not stabilization.... PWS uses a 1:10 twist. All the powder is burned in the first couple of inches of barrel.... The remainder of the barrel increases velocity simply due to the presence of hot, expanding gasses. Yes and no. I learned with a recent batch of ZQI 308 that if the powder burns too slow, it won't cycle the action. That extra couple inches makes a difference in recoil and muzzle blast. I have POF P308 rifles with 14.5" and 16.5" barrels. What I immediately noticed with the 16.5" is that the recoil/muzzle rise was greater and the muzzle blast was reduced. This is because more powder is burned up in a 16" barrel than a 14". FYI: shorter barrels are more rigid than longer barrels with the same profile. Haven't put the 16.5" through it's paces yet, but my 14" 308 is a sub MOA rifle. If you want a longer barrel to be more rigid you have to make the barrel heavier. Yes, shorter barrels reduce velocity and maximum terminal velocity, but that can be offset by your load (hint: Hornady Amax is a fucking grenade.) If you want a lightweight sub-MOA 308, that MK214 is your huckleberry. You done good. |
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Posted: 2/4/2016 10:58:50 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes and no. I learned with a recent batch of ZQI 308 that if the powder burns too slow, it won't cycle the action. That extra couple inches makes a difference in recoil and muzzle blast. I have POF P308 rifles with 14.5" and 16.5" barrels. What I immediately noticed with the 16.5" is that the recoil/muzzle rise was greater and the muzzle blast was reduced. This is because more powder is burned up in a 16" barrel than a 14". FYI: shorter barrels are more rigid than longer barrels with the same profile. Haven't put the 16.5" through it's paces yet, but my 14" 308 is a sub MOA rifle. If you want a longer barrel to be more rigid you have to make the barrel heavier. Yes, shorter barrels reduce velocity and maximum terminal velocity, but that can be offset by your load (hint: Hornady Amax is a fucking grenade.) If you want a lightweight sub-MOA 308, that MK214 is your huckleberry. You done good. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
OP you made a great choice with PWS! However I've got a question for the veteran shooters on here: How does 308 perform out of a 14" barrel? I got a mk220 and looooove it and would love to give it a smaller sibling but I've heard that 308 starts to mimic 300blk ballistically the shorter you go due to unburned powder or something. I heard this from a lgs employee so idk what to believe. What do you guys think? It is funny you ask this, because I was at my local PWS dealer this weekend "checking in" to see if they had an estimate for the date of delivery. The salesman at the counter was a different guy than the one I ordered the MK214 from, and he made it sound like the shorter barrel was a bad choice. He said a .308 will not be stabilized when it exits the barrel. After my visit, I came home and did a little research. My observation of the information available makes me think this is a hotly debated topic. I also plan on doing my own reloading and see that a faster burning powder would be a good choice for the shorter barrel. Salesman is an idiot. The Mk214 is a bad choice if you want to be shooting out to 800 meters, but for practical shooting out to 500, it's just fine. The only thing you're losing is velocity, not stabilization.... PWS uses a 1:10 twist. All the powder is burned in the first couple of inches of barrel.... The remainder of the barrel increases velocity simply due to the presence of hot, expanding gasses. Yes and no. I learned with a recent batch of ZQI 308 that if the powder burns too slow, it won't cycle the action. That extra couple inches makes a difference in recoil and muzzle blast. I have POF P308 rifles with 14.5" and 16.5" barrels. What I immediately noticed with the 16.5" is that the recoil/muzzle rise was greater and the muzzle blast was reduced. This is because more powder is burned up in a 16" barrel than a 14". FYI: shorter barrels are more rigid than longer barrels with the same profile. Haven't put the 16.5" through it's paces yet, but my 14" 308 is a sub MOA rifle. If you want a longer barrel to be more rigid you have to make the barrel heavier. Yes, shorter barrels reduce velocity and maximum terminal velocity, but that can be offset by your load (hint: Hornady Amax is a fucking grenade.) If you want a lightweight sub-MOA 308, that MK214 is your huckleberry. You done good. Your problem isn't slow burning powder, it's undercharges and inconsistent ammunition. ZQI is junk. I chrono'ed a batch and found velocity to be all over the map and, in general, very low. Also.... All of the powder is burned within the first couple of inches of the barrel, velocities are higher with a longer barrel because the hot gases are still expanding and the bullet is subject to the pressure resident in the bore and is therefore still accelerating. You have more felt recoil with a slightly longer barrel simply due to velocity... F=MA. |
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Posted: 2/4/2016 6:16:45 PM EDT
[#16]
Congrats on the PWS! I've been working with a Mk216 using a Leupold Mk4 1.5-5 scope on a LaRue mount. I've been happy with it so far just shooting out to 100 yds. It's wearing a B5 Enhanced SOPMOD stock at the moment.
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Posted: 2/4/2016 8:00:26 PM EDT
[#17]
My new rifle arrived yesterday. She is all that I hoped for. I am going to the range tonight to expend some ammo and will report back.
In the meantime, I ordered an Apex bipod and some keymod accessories. Still on the fence about optics. I may just save my pennies for a night force. Hogue grip is also on order to replace the MOE. I am thinking Daniel Defense for the stock. Do I want to buy the mil spec buffer tube stock or the other one? I have a wide assortment of ammo, PMC bronze, Winchester, PPG, some italian made "perfecta", Herters and some others I can't remember at the moment. I will report back on which ones she likes most. Harbinger |
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Posted: 2/4/2016 10:14:57 PM EDT
[#18]
Back from the range. Iron sights, 2" groups at 100 yards. All of the ammo shot well. I am confident the rifle is sub 1" no problem. Now I need that scope. I am starting to see how this can be dangerous for my budget!
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Posted: 2/5/2016 1:52:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Congratulations on your purchase
I chose a Leupold 1-6, I feel that it bridges the gap for duties of a battle rifle and enough magnification for the precision of a DMR https://www.dropbox.com/s/sa5fwuozs5se53j/PWS.JPG?dl=0 |
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Posted: 2/5/2016 2:04:39 PM EDT
[#20]
You'll want to buy a stock that is made for mil-spec receiver extension tubes
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Posted: 2/6/2016 10:18:03 PM EDT
[#21]
since you guys have the MK2 PWS rifles i'll ask a few questions as I go about setting mine up (MK216):
1) any find an ambi bolt catch that works with the PWS? tried a Magpul BAD lever like on my 556 and it won't work. any others to try or another ambi bolt release that you like? or anyone mod the BAD to fit? 2) do you have any markings on your barrel with regards to manufacturer, twist, etc? I haven't pulled my rail off yet (assuming it's just the allen screws) but can't see any markings on the barrel.. 3) anyone know what parts specifically are proprietary? obviously the bolt and piston are, but are the rest of the BCG standard 308? I haven't taken a close look at the charging handle. I know it's different but how much so (i.e. can I mod something different if I wanted to, to fit the piston system)? 4) stocks- I like the Luth-AR stocks as far as adjustability. The new MBA-3 looks good and still light weight. Anyone try one? I know PWS uses their own spec buffer tube but assuming it's a standard Mil-Spec carbine tube and any standard AR carbine stock will fit? anyone find a particular grain bullet theirs likes? thinking 175SMK or 178A-max to start with.. I've got 175's and a variety of powder to start doing some testing as soon as optics and mount arrive.. |
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Posted: 2/6/2016 11:30:49 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
since you guys have the MK2 PWS rifles i'll ask a few questions as I go about setting mine up (MK216): 1) any find an ambi bolt catch that works with the PWS? tried a Magpul BAD lever like on my 556 and it won't work. any others to try or another ambi bolt release that you like? or anyone mod the BAD to fit? 2) do you have any markings on your barrel with regards to manufacturer, twist, etc? I haven't pulled my rail off yet (assuming it's just the allen screws) but can't see any markings on the barrel.. Haven't seen anything, but there's been no need to strip my handguard off. It's a 1/10 twist. 3) anyone know what parts specifically are proprietary? obviously the bolt and piston are, but are the rest of the BCG standard 308? I haven't taken a close look at the charging handle. I know it's different but how much so (i.e. can I mod something different if I wanted to, to fit the piston system)? The bolt is standard .308 AR/SR-25 type. The bolt carrier is proprietary because of the way the piston attaches to it. Pretty much everything to do with the piston system is proprietary including, I believe, the handguard. 4) stocks- I like the Luth-AR stocks as far as adjustability. The new MBA-3 looks good and still light weight. Anyone try one? I know PWS uses their own spec buffer tube but assuming it's a standard Mil-Spec carbine tube and any standard AR carbine stock will fit? Standard stocks will fit. anyone find a particular grain bullet theirs likes? thinking 175SMK or 178A-max to start with.. I've got 175's and a variety of powder to start doing some testing as soon as optics and mount arrive.. My Mod 0 was most accurate with 155gr, second with 178gr and I couldn't get 168's to ground any better than 1.5-2.0-ish MOA. My Mod 1 is MOA with all of the above. Sub MOA with some hand loads and seems to prefer 155gr.... Then again, that's a load I've spent a lot of time dialing in. |
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Posted: 2/7/2016 12:21:59 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
since you guys have the MK2 PWS rifles i'll ask a few questions as I go about setting mine up (MK216): 2) do you have any markings on your barrel with regards to manufacturer, twist, etc? I haven't pulled my rail off yet (assuming it's just the allen screws) but can't see any markings on the barrel... The barrels are turned in house by PWS. The .308 barrels are all 1-10" twist. I'm not sure about the 12", 14", and 16" barrels, but according to Derek @ PWS, the 20" .308 barrel profile is somewhere between a mid-Palma and heavy Palma profile. It's a heavier barrel profile than the other .308 barrels. That's all I've got. |
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Posted: 2/7/2016 11:38:25 PM EDT
[#24]
I have had a love-hate relationship when it comes to accuracy and my Mk 216. When the stars align, it shoots about 1.5 moa with the right commercial ammo...this has included both 168 smk and 175 smk. Using handholds, I am able to get just above moa groups, but on a much more consistent basis. I have found, however, a reduced load that provides consistent .5 moa groups at 100 yards. Other than my shooting faults, accuracy seems to be most affected by copper build up and barrel temperature; I would say that my rifle is fairly sensitive in both respects.
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Posted: 2/9/2016 6:26:48 PM EDT
[#25]
if it was me, i'd put a 1.5-6x elcan specter dr on it.....or a us optics 1-8x sr-8c in a bobro mount.
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Posted: 2/10/2016 10:55:54 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
if it was me, i'd put a 1.5-6x elcan specter dr on it.....or a us optics 1-8x sr-8c in a bobro mount. Elcan is uber-heavy, and the USO 1-8x doesn't have daylight visible illumination (can't use it as a red-dot at 1X) and has a really unforgiving eye-box... Compared to its competition (even at lower price) it's like looking through a soda straw. For the price, there are WAY better options. A low powered variable is the way to go, but these two options would be pretty low on my list. Take a hard look at the Steiner 1-4X with Rapid Dot as mentioned above, the new Leupold VX-6 with the Firedot BDC reticle, the Primary Arms 1-8X Platinum with Mil-Dot reticle, or for a very affordable and flexible option, the Burris XTR II 1-5X with mil-dot reticle. Here's why I say mil-dot rather than a BDC.... ESPECIALLY for a 14" barrel. You're never going to get the type of ballistics you'll need to come close to matching a 7.62 or 5.56 calibrated BDC and it's going to drive you nuts. So, figure out which round you'll be using for long range shooting and run it over the chrono to get average velocity. After that, plug the BC/slug/velocity info into a ballistic calculator, set the output to mils, and boom..... You've got your holdovers. Either memorize it, or print out a cheat sheet and tape it to the stock. DONE.... This will mitigate some of the velocity losses from a short barrel and make your life easier. |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 3:31:14 PM EDT
[#27]
you mention the Burris XTRII, they have a new 1-8x that should be out soon. Looks like a great option in the sub $1000 category for a daylight bright 1x scopes. I may go that route on mine. if i can wait. :)
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Posted: 2/11/2016 6:51:36 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Elcan is uber-heavy, and the USO 1-8x doesn't have daylight visible illumination (can't use it as a red-dot at 1X) and has a really unforgiving eye-box... Compared to its competition (even at lower price) it's like looking through a soda straw. For the price, there are WAY better options. A low powered variable is the way to go, but these two options would be pretty low on my list. Take a hard look at the Steiner 1-4X with Rapid Dot as mentioned above, the new Leupold VX-6 with the Firedot BDC reticle, the Primary Arms 1-8X Platinum with Mil-Dot reticle, or for a very affordable and flexible option, the Burris XTR II 1-5X with mil-dot reticle. Here's why I say mil-dot rather than a BDC.... ESPECIALLY for a 14" barrel. You're never going to get the type of ballistics you'll need to come close to matching a 7.62 or 5.56 calibrated BDC and it's going to drive you nuts. So, figure out which round you'll be using for long range shooting and run it over the chrono to get average velocity. After that, plug the BC/slug/velocity info into a ballistic calculator, set the output to mils, and boom..... You've got your holdovers. Either memorize it, or print out a cheat sheet and tape it to the stock. DONE.... This will mitigate some of the velocity losses from a short barrel and make your life easier. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
if it was me, i'd put a 1.5-6x elcan specter dr on it.....or a us optics 1-8x sr-8c in a bobro mount. Elcan is uber-heavy, and the USO 1-8x doesn't have daylight visible illumination (can't use it as a red-dot at 1X) and has a really unforgiving eye-box... Compared to its competition (even at lower price) it's like looking through a soda straw. For the price, there are WAY better options. A low powered variable is the way to go, but these two options would be pretty low on my list. Take a hard look at the Steiner 1-4X with Rapid Dot as mentioned above, the new Leupold VX-6 with the Firedot BDC reticle, the Primary Arms 1-8X Platinum with Mil-Dot reticle, or for a very affordable and flexible option, the Burris XTR II 1-5X with mil-dot reticle. Here's why I say mil-dot rather than a BDC.... ESPECIALLY for a 14" barrel. You're never going to get the type of ballistics you'll need to come close to matching a 7.62 or 5.56 calibrated BDC and it's going to drive you nuts. So, figure out which round you'll be using for long range shooting and run it over the chrono to get average velocity. After that, plug the BC/slug/velocity info into a ballistic calculator, set the output to mils, and boom..... You've got your holdovers. Either memorize it, or print out a cheat sheet and tape it to the stock. DONE.... This will mitigate some of the velocity losses from a short barrel and make your life easier. This thread is good info. I'm also looking to get an AR10 type rifle, and am basically down to the MK216 and Seekins SP10. But the optic thing I'm still working on. I have the SWFA 1-4x in a LT mount on a 556 AR and love it. So considering their 1-6x for the .308. I'm wanting to use gun for up to 600 yds. Good feedback on the above scopes. I'm also interested in hearing about the Eotech 1-6x when it comes out. |
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