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Posted: 10/13/2015 8:01:53 PM EDT
Hey all, I am on a quest to create the least gas blow back (in and around the face region) rifle possible. This will be a SBR/PISTON/Suppressed gun. This is o eliminates gas blow back in the face, not into the lower, in the handguard, in the person next to you - purely out of the person firing the weapon (right handed - lefties ain't a concern for this project
 )
What I have currently:
What I plan to get (best of what I know as of now)
While waiting for my SDN-6 I've been shooting my 22lr suppressor and an AR platform and notced a lot of shit getting on my glasses. After watching vids of others shooting suppressed, I can see tons of gas going right into their face. I don't like this. So Is there anything else y'all recommend? I've searched old threads but they seem outdated, even if a year old. Would a side charging handle AR work better for preventing gas in face? A different piston system? I posted this in the Piston section because I did not want to start a DI vs Piston argument. I think that piston + SBR + suppressor is the way to go, but if you do feel inclined to inform me please do as to what better alternative in an AR platform there is to prevent gas from getting in my face holes. Thank you ARF. |
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Posted: 10/13/2015 8:34:42 PM EDT
[#1]
The best remedy IMHO is to delay the extraction as long as possible. My AR puts very, very little gas in my face. Less than my old RA XCR. I built the AR with an 18" rifle gas barrel, H3 buffer, and adjustable gas system specifically to delay extraction as long as possible so that more of the trapped gas makes it out the muzzle end before being allowed to flow back through the chamber and action. I'm not using any kind of special charging handle, or seals and I don't feel the need for either.
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Posted: 10/13/2015 8:40:05 PM EDT
[#2]
I recently tried a mag dumpn on an armatac saw mag with a pof 9.25 upper with an ace entry stock( super short) and ended up with an eye full of gas. I had to stop half way thru.
PRI makes a gas buster charging handle which is said to reduce gas blowback |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 12:56:52 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
I posted this in the Piston section because I did not want to start a DI vs Piston argument. I think that piston + SBR + suppressor is the way to go, but if you do feel inclined to inform me please do as to what better alternative in an AR platform there is to prevent gas from getting in my face holes. That is what I would think too. But, such is not necessarily the case. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 1:16:36 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Hey all, I am on a quest to create the least gas blow back (in and around the face region) rifle possible. This will be a SBR/PISTON/Suppressed gun. This is o eliminates gas blow back in the face, not into the lower, in the handguard, in the person next to you - purely out of the person firing the weapon (right handed - lefties ain't a concern for this project )
What I have currently:
What I plan to get (best of what I know as of now)
While waiting for my SDN-6 I've been shooting my 22lr suppressor and an AR platform and notced a lot of shit getting on my glasses. After watching vids of others shooting suppressed, I can see tons of gas going right into their face. I don't like this. So Is there anything else y'all recommend? I've searched old threads but they seem outdated, even if a year old. Would a side charging handle AR work better for preventing gas in face? A different piston system? I posted this in the Piston section because I did not want to start a DI vs Piston argument. I think that piston + SBR + suppressor is the way to go, but if you do feel inclined to inform me please do as to what better alternative in an AR platform there is to prevent gas from getting in my face holes. Thank you ARF. I am a little confused why are you having face gas issues with a piston. Pistons should not do that. Am I understanding this correctly? My Syrac Piston puts absolutely no gas in my face because the gas goes out the gas block. That is why I love pistons so much. If you are trying to minimize the gas on a DI I would go with Griffin Armament SNACH charging handle. Their charging handle has worked 100% on mag dumps for me on my DI SBR. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 9:12:57 AM EDT
[#5]
Why are you getting the gasbiuster CH and concerned with gas from the FA if going piston? Those are the very reasons TO go piston, especially with a can. Because no gas is coming back to the receiver there is no need for those changes. Now i will say I picked up an Armageddon ambi CH, which is coincidentally a gas-control CH, but got it to try out the ambi part as compared to my Raptors. Anyway those are not necessary if you're going with a piston setup, can or no can.
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Posted: 10/14/2015 12:48:22 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am a little confused why are you having face gas issues with a piston. Pistons should not do that. Am I understanding this correctly? My Syrac Piston puts absolutely no gas in my face because the gas goes out the gas block. That is why I love pistons so much. If you are trying to minimize the gas on a DI I would go with Griffin Armament SNACH charging handle. Their charging handle has worked 100% on mag dumps for me on my DI SBR. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hey all, I am on a quest to create the least gas blow back (in and around the face region) rifle possible. This will be a SBR/PISTON/Suppressed gun. This is o eliminates gas blow back in the face, not into the lower, in the handguard, in the person next to you - purely out of the person firing the weapon (right handed - lefties ain't a concern for this project )
What I have currently:
What I plan to get (best of what I know as of now)
While waiting for my SDN-6 I've been shooting my 22lr suppressor and an AR platform and notced a lot of shit getting on my glasses. After watching vids of others shooting suppressed, I can see tons of gas going right into their face. I don't like this. So Is there anything else y'all recommend? I've searched old threads but they seem outdated, even if a year old. Would a side charging handle AR work better for preventing gas in face? A different piston system? I posted this in the Piston section because I did not want to start a DI vs Piston argument. I think that piston + SBR + suppressor is the way to go, but if you do feel inclined to inform me please do as to what better alternative in an AR platform there is to prevent gas from getting in my face holes. Thank you ARF. I am a little confused why are you having face gas issues with a piston. Pistons should not do that. Am I understanding this correctly? My Syrac Piston puts absolutely no gas in my face because the gas goes out the gas block. That is why I love pistons so much. If you are trying to minimize the gas on a DI I would go with Griffin Armament SNACH charging handle. Their charging handle has worked 100% on mag dumps for me on my DI SBR. Most of gas blown back at the shooter comes through the chamber, not through the gas system. A suppressor stores a large quantity of gas under pressure immediately after the bullet passes. Most of the gas exits the muzzle, but much of it exits back through the barrel. This is why the top couple rounds in the mag will be covered in carbon soot after firing through a suppressor. Piston systems have no affect on gas blowback vs DI systems. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 4:29:44 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am a little confused why are you having face gas issues with a piston. Pistons should not do that. Am I understanding this correctly? My Syrac Piston puts absolutely no gas in my face because the gas goes out the gas block. That is why I love pistons so much. If you are trying to minimize the gas on a DI I would go with Griffin Armament SNACH charging handle. Their charging handle has worked 100% on mag dumps for me on my DI SBR. One would think, here's a video showing the gas come out https://youtu.be/jbhEMju4O-w |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 6:32:36 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am a little confused why are you having face gas issues with a piston. Pistons should not do that. Am I understanding this correctly? My Syrac Piston puts absolutely no gas in my face because the gas goes out the gas block. That is why I love pistons so much. If you are trying to minimize the gas on a DI I would go with Griffin Armament SNACH charging handle. Their charging handle has worked 100% on mag dumps for me on my DI SBR. You sure can tell who likely hasn't shot suppressed SBRs, much less suppressed SBR piston setups. There is still plenty of gas to the face with my 11.5" suppressed piston SBR. Granted, it's a lot less than the exact same gun setup with DI (yes, I've tried the gun both ways). The problem is not the piston, it's the gas coming back through the chamber -- which is going to happen whether it's DI or piston. Whoever said up above that the goal should be to delay extraction as long as possible, was right. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 6:48:09 PM EDT
[#9]
Easy solution is permatex on the charging handle to make a "poor man's" gasbuster. Just need enough to redirect it from you or face to out the side of the CH.
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Posted: 10/14/2015 7:53:36 PM EDT
[#10]
Bolt gun would solve the problem...
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Posted: 10/14/2015 8:53:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Easy solution is permatex on the charging handle to make a "poor man's" gasbuster. Just need enough to redirect it from you or face to out the side of the CH. This is what I'm trying to achieve, re-directing the gas from the face. I don't care if it gets in the mag, on the person next to me, on my crotch - just out of my face. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 9:12:45 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is what I'm trying to achieve, re-directing the gas from the face. I don't care if it gets in the mag, on the person next to me, on my crotch - just out of my face. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Easy solution is permatex on the charging handle to make a "poor man's" gasbuster. Just need enough to redirect it from you or face to out the side of the CH. This is what I'm trying to achieve, re-directing the gas from the face. I don't care if it gets in the mag, on the person next to me, on my crotch - just out of my face. Gas buster will do this. |
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Posted: 10/15/2015 7:54:08 AM EDT
[#13]
I have gas busters for sale.........:)
As others have said a piston system makes no difference to gas blowback. I'm wondering if those who say it does have ever shot suppressed. Pistons also tend to be louder suppressed than DI guns. |
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Posted: 10/15/2015 9:48:36 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As others have said a piston system makes no difference to gas blowback. That is not true. They do make a noticeable difference in terms of helping to reduce it. They just don't eliminate it like a lot of people incorrectly think they do. |
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Posted: 10/15/2015 10:41:23 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You sure can tell who likely hasn't shot suppressed SBRs, much less suppressed SBR piston setups. There is still plenty of gas to the face with my 11.5" suppressed piston SBR. Granted, it's a lot less than the exact same gun setup with DI (yes, I've tried the gun both ways). The problem is not the piston, it's the gas coming back through the chamber -- which is going to happen whether it's DI or piston. Whoever said up above that the goal should be to delay extraction as long as possible, was right. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I am a little confused why are you having face gas issues with a piston. Pistons should not do that. Am I understanding this correctly? My Syrac Piston puts absolutely no gas in my face because the gas goes out the gas block. That is why I love pistons so much. If you are trying to minimize the gas on a DI I would go with Griffin Armament SNACH charging handle. Their charging handle has worked 100% on mag dumps for me on my DI SBR. You sure can tell who likely hasn't shot suppressed SBRs, much less suppressed SBR piston setups. There is still plenty of gas to the face with my 11.5" suppressed piston SBR. Granted, it's a lot less than the exact same gun setup with DI (yes, I've tried the gun both ways). The problem is not the piston, it's the gas coming back through the chamber -- which is going to happen whether it's DI or piston. Whoever said up above that the goal should be to delay extraction as long as possible, was right. Well shit, I must have a miracle piston on my build!  I have done dozens of practice training drills and just fun mag dumps at the range and have no issues with gas in my face and most of it was using a suppressor. However this was with 300 blackout (sub and supers) so that might make a different. On my Other SBR 300 blackout build which is DI I did have gas in the face issues with a can, until I put the griffin Armament SNACH charging handle on the build (that was after the spring fix on the SNACH). I have a sig 516 that is a 10" SBR that I have done a few drills with a can but never experience a gas to face problem but that SBR has not been put through hell like the Syrac Ordnance 300 blackout build. I guess I'm lucky and the gas is so minimized that I do not notice it
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Posted: 10/15/2015 10:45:16 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is what I'm trying to achieve, re-directing the gas from the face. I don't care if it gets in the mag, on the person next to me, on my crotch - just out of my face. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Easy solution is permatex on the charging handle to make a "poor man's" gasbuster. Just need enough to redirect it from you or face to out the side of the CH. This is what I'm trying to achieve, re-directing the gas from the face. I don't care if it gets in the mag, on the person next to me, on my crotch - just out of my face. PFCMoxy try this charging handle I think you will like it. It works great for my DI gun when I use my suppressor. I like it better than the gas buster Griffin Armament SNACH Ambi Charging Handle |
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Posted: 10/15/2015 12:10:38 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
However this was with 300 blackout (sub and supers) so that might make a different. Actually, it makes all the difference. With 300 BLK subs using less than half the powder charge of 223/556 loads and supers using only slight more powder than subs -- right there explains no gas to the face when shooting suppressed 300 BLK (subs or suppers). Which by the way, I've shot plenty of as well. So like I said, you can tell who has and has not shot a lot of suppressed 556 SBRs. 
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Posted: 10/15/2015 12:21:09 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually, it makes all the difference. With 300 BLK subs using less than half the powder charge of 223/556 loads and supers using only slight more powder than subs -- right there explains no gas to the face when shooting suppressed 300 BLK (subs or suppers). Which by the way, I've shot plenty of as well. So like I said, you can tell who has and has not shot a lot of suppressed 556 SBRs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
However this was with 300 blackout (sub and supers) so that might make a different. Actually, it makes all the difference. With 300 BLK subs using less than half the powder charge of 223/556 loads and supers using only slight more powder than subs -- right there explains no gas to the face when shooting suppressed 300 BLK (subs or suppers). Which by the way, I've shot plenty of as well. So like I said, you can tell who has and has not shot a lot of suppressed 556 SBRs. I know this. 300 Blackout Subs leave a DI gun filthy, especially the tail of the bolt, far more so than 5.56 . |
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Posted: 10/15/2015 1:22:26 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know this. 300 Blackout Subs leave a DI gun filthy, especially the tail of the bolt, far more so than 5.56 . far more powder.. Has anyone experimented with putting a hole (or series of holes) in the upper to vent the gas? |
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Posted: 10/16/2015 12:15:13 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
far more powder.. Has anyone experimented with putting a hole (or series of holes) in the upper to vent the gas? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I know this. 300 Blackout Subs leave a DI gun filthy, especially the tail of the bolt, far more so than 5.56 . far more powder.. Has anyone experimented with putting a hole (or series of holes) in the upper to vent the gas? No. There is far less powder in a sub sonic 300 Blackout. But, it leaves the bolt tail caked in crud. |
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Posted: 10/16/2015 12:48:49 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. There is far less powder in a sub sonic 300 Blackout. But, it leaves the bolt tail caked in crud. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I know this. 300 Blackout Subs leave a DI gun filthy, especially the tail of the bolt, far more so than 5.56 . far more powder.. Has anyone experimented with putting a hole (or series of holes) in the upper to vent the gas? No. There is far less powder in a sub sonic 300 Blackout. But, it leaves the bolt tail caked in crud. Gas is lower temperature, so more of it solidifies and sticks instead of just blowing out the exhaust port. |
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Posted: 10/16/2015 11:27:44 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
far more powder.. Has anyone experimented with putting a hole (or series of holes) in the upper to vent the gas? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I know this. 300 Blackout Subs leave a DI gun filthy, especially the tail of the bolt, far more so than 5.56 . far more powder.. Has anyone experimented with putting a hole (or series of holes) in the upper to vent the gas? I haven't drilled holes, but removal of the forward assist works like magic. OP try putting some RTV type sealant on the charge handle (poor mans gas buster) and remove the forward assist from the upper. Those gas vent forward assist replacements also work, or drill a vent hole in a forward assist if you absolutely need to have one on your rifle (I'm not a fan of the Jam enhancer, err... forward assist [I know they have a place, just not something I like]). I've also gone to the trouble of putting a light bead of RTV on the top lip of the lower receiver to better seal the upper and lower together. This is prolly to much trouble, but it did help when adding up everything together (CH, removed FA, and lip sealing). |
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Posted: 10/16/2015 8:39:43 PM EDT
[#23]
Have not tried it, but I would think a side charger with no forward assist would be the ticket.
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Posted: 10/27/2015 11:47:04 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually, it makes all the difference. With 300 BLK subs using less than half the powder charge of 223/556 loads and supers using only slight more powder than subs -- right there explains no gas to the face when shooting suppressed 300 BLK (subs or suppers). Which by the way, I've shot plenty of as well. So like I said, you can tell who has and has not shot a lot of suppressed 556 SBRs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
However this was with 300 blackout (sub and supers) so that might make a different. Actually, it makes all the difference. With 300 BLK subs using less than half the powder charge of 223/556 loads and supers using only slight more powder than subs -- right there explains no gas to the face when shooting suppressed 300 BLK (subs or suppers). Which by the way, I've shot plenty of as well. So like I said, you can tell who has and has not shot a lot of suppressed 556 SBRs. I need to shoot more suppressed 556 sbr's I efiled a stamp in for a 8 inch and I have an extra Syrac piston that have been around because I could not get it to work with a MVB stock. I guess you can figure out where that piston is going
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Posted: 10/27/2015 11:07:01 PM EDT
[#25]
Anyone have input on specific suppressors? I was leaning towards a AAC since I have 3 aac mounts, but am willing to change my mind if there are better options in the market today. Seems like AAC is getting some strong competition.
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Posted: 10/28/2015 1:38:10 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone have input on specific suppressors? I was leaning towards a AAC since I have 3 aac mounts, but am willing to change my mind if there are better options in the market today. Seems like AAC is getting some strong competition. To me they all sound the same. You will get people pulling decibels on each suppressor but it hard to hear in real life. I have a Silencer co SWR 7.62 and a YHM LT 7.62 for my rifles. I notice little to no difference between the two when shooting them on 556 or 300 blackout. I really like the YHM mount for quick on quick off. If you have AAC mounts then I would probably go with a 7.62 AAC QD because you already have a number of hosts ready to go. If I buy another suppressor my main thing I will look for is the weight. Lighter is better.
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Posted: 11/12/2015 11:51:46 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I haven't drilled holes, but removal of the forward assist works like magic. OP try putting some RTV type sealant on the charge handle (poor mans gas buster) and remove the forward assist from the upper. Those gas vent forward assist replacements also work, or drill a vent hole in a forward assist if you absolutely need to have one on your rifle (I'm not a fan of the Jam enhancer, err... forward assist [I know they have a place, just not something I like]). I've also gone to the trouble of putting a light bead of RTV on the top lip of the lower receiver to better seal the upper and lower together. This is prolly to much trouble, but it did help when adding up everything together (CH, removed FA, and lip sealing). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I know this. 300 Blackout Subs leave a DI gun filthy, especially the tail of the bolt, far more so than 5.56 . far more powder.. Has anyone experimented with putting a hole (or series of holes) in the upper to vent the gas? I haven't drilled holes, but removal of the forward assist works like magic. OP try putting some RTV type sealant on the charge handle (poor mans gas buster) and remove the forward assist from the upper. Those gas vent forward assist replacements also work, or drill a vent hole in a forward assist if you absolutely need to have one on your rifle (I'm not a fan of the Jam enhancer, err... forward assist [I know they have a place, just not something I like]). I've also gone to the trouble of putting a light bead of RTV on the top lip of the lower receiver to better seal the upper and lower together. This is prolly to much trouble, but it did help when adding up everything together (CH, removed FA, and lip sealing). FOUND ONE I may give it a try. |
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Posted: 11/13/2015 1:37:13 AM EDT
[#28]
I use the non forward assist uppers in my builds now since going suppressed.
Rainier sells some. |
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