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Page AR-15 » AR-15 / M-16 Retro Forum
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 8/19/2016 3:45:15 PM EDT
I was looking at various lower images online and saw something that I had not noticed on other lowers until today.  Some manufactures are milling the lowers so that there's a notch or indentation milled into the safety selector opening on the bolt stop side.

Here are two examples:



Compare that selector opening design to the Nodak A1:


Can anyone explain the origin or purpose of the notch in the first two photos?

Thanks
Wes
Link Posted: 8/19/2016 4:35:17 PM EDT
[#1]
I'm not sure. I don't think I've ever seen a lower with that extra notch milled in. None of my lowers have it.
Link Posted: 8/19/2016 4:37:20 PM EDT
[#2]
I've been wondering about that also.
I really can't figure out what advantage there is to that extra machining step.
Link Posted: 8/19/2016 5:08:53 PM EDT
[#3]
I think they are for a short throw safety.
Link Posted: 8/19/2016 5:35:06 PM EDT
[#4]
Cross Machine & Tool lowers are milled that way:

As are the AR15.com billet lowers:


Oddly, the forged lowers from AR15.com don't have the notch.

I guess I was curious to know if it was a part of Stoner's original design but was found to not be needed so it's been removed or if it's a more recent mutation.  Of course I'm also curious to know what it's functional purpose is or was.
Link Posted: 8/19/2016 5:50:47 PM EDT
[#5]
It's to accommodate the lawyer pin pressed into BAD 45 degree safety selectors.

Those lowers should have slightly modified FIRE markings such as with the Cross example.

I just pulled the pin and installed mine in a DPMS.
Link Posted: 8/19/2016 6:20:19 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It's to accommodate the lawyer pin pressed into BAD 45 degree safety selectors.

Those lowers should have slightly modified FIRE markings such as with the Cross example.

I just pulled the pin and installed mine in a DPMS.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It's to accommodate the lawyer pin pressed into BAD 45 degree safety selectors.

Those lowers should have slightly modified FIRE markings such as with the Cross example.

I just pulled the pin and installed mine in a DPMS.


I guess we are talking about the pin that can be seen in this photo:


What the heck is the point of that thing?

EDIT:
Found the answer:
https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=632230

Thanks gents for sharing info and your support!  

The "lawyer pin" is an unavoidable (to our legal counsel, and we concur) necessity. Its only purpose is to bar it from being installed on receivers not marked for 45 degree compatible FIRE engraving position. A 45/90 compatible receiver will have FIRE or suitable pictogram located at 68 degree, thus either a 45 or 90 degree selector will point to it sufficiently, enough to avoid confusion as to what condition the weapon is in.

The pin itself is pressed in, and made of stainless steel. We don't recommend nor suggest its removal, as somewhere between SAFE and FIRE doesn't mean safe or fire, for someone unfamiliar with the operation of an AR, this is a problem. For those of us that have been trained and are safety conscious, it isn't an issue as we go by feel, not by looking at which way the selector's indicator is pointing. But we can't assume everyone that buys it operates their AR that way.

There are now quite a few 45/90 degree selector compatible receivers, the latest being CMT, Aero Precision, and Midwest Industries. Spikes Tactical and Seekins will be out soon, as well as our own  

It's been three years since its introduction, we're gratified to see that the short throw movement is gaining momentum. It has never been our intention to replace the 90 degree legacy selector arrangement, we simply want to make the short throw selector a viable option, so folks can decide for themselves which they want to use. To that end, we don't license the receiver design, we freely give it to manufacturers that asks for it  

As to other short throw selectors that do not require a compatible receiver, the only one our legal counsel would be happy with is the Noveske STS. At 60 degrees, it points close enough to the FIRE engraving to avoid causing confusion. I'm not a lawyer and can't give legal advice, but I will share the reason behind ours a little further. Somewhere between SAFE and FIRE is neither SAFE or FIRE, it would not be easy to argue otherwise in front of a judge. While ATF may be fine with pirate or zombie themed markings, a neither here nor there position, such as a 45 degree selector will point to in the absence of a compatible receiver with proper markings, opens itself to litigation.

The lawyer pin, while inconvenient, makes the selector more time consuming and expensive to make, and limits its wider adoption, is preferable to law suits. For us, it's either the pin, or no short throw selectors.
Link Posted: 8/19/2016 6:48:03 PM EDT
[#7]
looks like a fix for a problem invented by a fix for a problem.
Link Posted: 8/19/2016 8:02:03 PM EDT
[#8]
"looks like a fix for a problem invented by a fix for a problem."

Hey, I'm borrowing that line sometime.

That being said, I'm not too enamored of manufacturers who use smartass markings like on the BMF lower posted above. Some guys might think it's cute but it can cause problems with a new user.
Page AR-15 » AR-15 / M-16 Retro Forum
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
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