Hello all,

I bought a new in box never fired M16 A1 (yes machine gun, form4) recently but the mag was missing. Even has the oiled rope down the bore.

It's a 9mil serial if that makes a difference.

I'm trying to source a period accurate 20rd magazine, but I'm not sure where to look.

I have a bunch of old 20rd colt mags but they all have "AR-15" base plates.

What mags would have  come with an M16 A1? What mags did the mil get during Vietnam ?


Thank you for your time.
Pleaced this question here instead of the NFA forum knowing you guys are sticklers for such retro details.

Look for this floorplate.

That is exactly what I posted in the OP that I currently have.

So you're saying there was never a floor plate marked M16, or some other mil nomenclature ? That M16 machine guns came with AR-15 marked floor plate magazines?

Or this some obvious newb shit that's going straight over my head.

The caliber shown was changed to 5.56mm eventually, instead of .223.

http://www.ar15.com/content/products/magazines/information.html

You are correct.....there are no M16 marked mags. M16 were marked AR-15 through the early and mid sixties, as were the mags. Nothing changed on the mags except the caliber designation. Actually, there were many mag changes, but only the cal. designation during the period you question.

Simmonds are marked "M16/M16A1"

My brother was an Army Ranger in Korea from 1970 to 1971.  Looking through his photo album I see soldiers there were still using M1956 web gear and M16-A1 rifles with 20 round magazines.  While soldiers in Vietnam were using the newer Alice web gear and M16-A1 rifles with 30 round magazines. during the same period.  I have a batch of Vietnam era 20 round M16 magazines with  base-plates marked Colt .223, Colt 5.56, Simmons, and Adventure Line, all with medal followers.

Cheers,
W-W

I thought op was asking about Colt mags.

Thank you all.

You want 5.56 marked Colt mags

Either 20 or 30rd

I think regarding magazines that was fairly variable depending on where the soldier was in Viet Nam, unit, job, etc.  I myself saw very, very few 30-round mags just a little later on than the time period noted, but, certainly can't speak to everywhere.

IIRC, the Alice system didn't get adopted until '73 or '74, although there was some nylon stuff in the pipeline before that (M1967???).  Most of what I saw was cotton web, except rucksacks and seat-belt slings, and, just before I got out, the hideous "silent" sling.

From my knowledge of the M1967 gear, the harness and pouches were all changed to nylon. Not 100% sure on the belt. Some of the pouches saw minor changes/additions (canteen pouch) while others were almost completely redesigned (ammo pouches).


More on topic though, I think we need pictures of your new acquisition OP!

This.  Colt changed the floorplate markings from .223 to 5.56 around '69, and if the OP's S/N is in the 9-million range, it's later than that.
Of course, we all know that Colt never let anything go to waste, so an older mag that was sitting on a shelf could have easily made it into the box with a later rifle.

Here's some 20 rds that would have been retro appropriate.  M-1967 nylon pouch is a little late for retro era although dated in time frame.  Standard M-1956 pouch was very popular for holding 20 rd mags or beer but probably a little early.  Shorty M-1956 cotton probably most appropriate but sold the one's I had.  Those are kinda rare today because many were left behind and simply deteriorated over time.  

The 30 round mags in pic were acquired with a bunch of 9 million serial Colt M-16A1 kits.  Don't know when foreign govt procured mags but accessories with rifle kits date weapons to late 70's production or purchase.

1973 only marine corps 30 rd pouch is a little late to the party. The 30 round mags and or similar nylon pouch without flaps would be more appropriate for serial of your weapon IMO.  Had these laying around and thought I'd share.

Great, now I have to find these pouches.

You guys in this sub forum always go above and beyond with the details. thanks again.

What accessories did you get?  I can probably tell you where to find most of the correct stuff for that serial range M-16A1.  Check Charleys Surplus for nylon 4 mag 20 rd.  He lists as M-1972 SKU# CA434 at $14.95ea.    They look new and probably best deal going.  I call them M-1967.  Call and ask for Dewey if interested.  Ask what DSA is stamped inside top cover.   100-68-C-2778 with 68 being yr of mfg is retro correct.  M-1956 cotton shorty pouch brings a premium in excellent condition and are generally scarce today figure $40-50 excellent is a deal.  Most ask more but really hard sell at $50 IMO.  Beater figure $25 plus.

Can also check www Vietnamgear to see most of what would be correct for retro,  gear wise and for vocabulary.  As stated above your serial really puts weapon post VN era and in the 30 round magazine time frame.  LC-2,  3 -  30 rd mag pouch would be most correct IMO for your weapon serial.  These are rather common for surplus pouches.

Un-marked Colt 30 rd mag body most popular to own (floor plate markings like what is in my above pic).  Adventureline made some, LaBelle Ind pic that I posted and the Okays were probably most mass produced.  Couple other mfgs also.  I'm just drawing a blank without digging into stash.  Thinking Cooper also but these were noted problematic in FA mode after much use.

Did you get a cleaning kit?  Wouldn't recommend using it as they aren't really barrel friendly but not a hard item to find still in dated Colt wrap.  Oil bottle and pouch for stock.  If going to fire weapon get an aluminum cleaning rod for cleaning!

Bayonet Colt 62316 stamped probably best condition from Numrich Gun Parts figure $100ish. As condition drops so does price generally.  Beater still brings $50 plus due to Pony stamp.  All the other mfg M-7 bayos figure $45 in excellent except FZR stamp.  Very rare piece.  I usually bid $200 for excellent and rarely win one for that.  Too many willing to pay upwards of $300 and $200 IMO is $150 too much.

Good luck.  I'd probably buy the accessories and keep it unfired but it's not mine.  Thanks for sharing.  Hope to see pics soon.

Many Cooper magazines were also over sized and would not fit the mag well.  Not good, and I've seen that problem with them myself.  Cooper was also notable for supposedly having their contract cancelled and magazines withdrawn from service, although they're still floating around.  

magazine list by manufacturer here

There are several versions of that list floating around the inner-nets and some other lists as well.

Luck of the draw when/where issued.  Many manufacturers out there by the time that rifle was used.  Pick your poison.

The Nylon 20 round mag pouches are not exactly M67 gear, unless the push to dot snaps are plastic.   If the pouches have metal push to do I do believe they are ALICE gear, not M67.

Ive got a complete set of M67 gear minus the First aid packet and the 40MM grenade vest, which are the hardest pieces to find.  

You can find the M1956's pretty easily online at surplus sites and ebay. I've gotten them for 15 or so each and even ones in pretty good condition (no tears, all seams intact, minimal fading etc) for about that.
Here's a set of three that ends today for less than $60

I can take pictures of the condition of some of the other ones I have, but none of them are really what I call "beaters".

You can find the M1956's pretty easily online at surplus sites and ebay.

Big difference in standard  M-1956 M-14 .308 two mag and shorty .M-1956 223/5.56 4 mag pouch in price and availability.  Those in link are standard M-14 pouches.  Standard M-1956 were used and fielded but not in the same class as the rarer shorty pouches for collectability.