My CAR15/654/SP1 Carbine clone...

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - My CAR15/654/SP1 Carbine clone...

Posted: 12/18/2014 12:06:44 AM EDT

I almost had it right with my USAF Franken Carbine build, but it had an M4 barrel. The Holy Grail for a CAR build is the 6420/6720 1/7" twist, 16" Pencil barrel...which I finally found. The below project is what was left after I took my retro 602 and a Carbine build, when I sold off all the 20" barreled retro stuff. Total weight empty is 5 pounds, 7 ounces!

Colt 604 early square forge upper
Colt 6720 1/7 Pencil barrel
Colt 601 Chrome BCG
Colt Fiberlite stock set
Nodak Spud 601 lower
Kalifornication compliant bullet button and Colt 20 rounder blocked to 10 rounds.
NC Star Colt 3X scope clone

Posted: 12/18/2014 12:16:11 AM EDT

[#1]

Nice!

Posted: 12/18/2014 12:22:13 AM EDT

[#2]

Here is the same upper (with a muzzle break, instead of a flash hider) and a Tasco ProPoint red dot, on a "Featureless" fixed stock lower and Solar Tactical paddle, so I can use my "legally possessed by me prior to 1-1-2000 in California" high capacity magazines.

Posted: 12/18/2014 1:12:25 AM EDT

[#3]

I like it without the scope, nice collection of parts, that upper receiver is really nice.

Quoted:
I almost had it right with my USAF Franken Carbine build, but it had an M4 barrel. The Holy Grail for a CAR build is the 6420/6720 1/7" twist, 16" Pencil barrel...which I finally found. The below project is what was left after I took my retro 602 and a Carbine build, when I sold off all the 20" barreled retro stuff. Total weight empty is 5 pounds, 7 ounces!

Colt 604 early square forge upper
Colt 6720 1/7 Pencil barrel
Colt 601 Chrome BCG
Colt Fiberlite stock set
Nodak Spud 601 lower
Kalifornication compliant bullet button and Colt 20 rounder blocked to 10 rounds.
NC Star Colt 3X scope clone

<a href="http://s247.photobucket.com/user/imarangemaster/media/CAR15_zps81547875.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg134/imarangemaster/CAR15_zps81547875.jpg</a>

<a href="http://s247.photobucket.com/user/imarangemaster/media/CAR15a_zps23b85c7d.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg134/imarangemaster/CAR15a_zps23b85c7d.jpg</a>

<a href="http://s247.photobucket.com/user/imarangemaster/media/6420BARREL_zps51033895.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg134/imarangemaster/6420BARREL_zps51033895.jpg</a>

<a href="http://s247.photobucket.com/user/imarangemaster/media/CAR15B_zps4040bf0b.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg134/imarangemaster/CAR15B_zps4040bf0b.jpg</a>

View Quote

Posted: 12/18/2014 1:53:59 AM EDT

[#4]

imarangemaster, Nice Carbine you have there. That Early Square Forge 604 Upper is SWEEET !!! Those are hard to find in that condition.

I like the way they match with the lower receiver's lines, just below the rear of the Ejection Port.

Posted: 12/18/2014 2:11:42 AM EDT

[#5]

Dear lord man, is that a tic mark on the right side of your selector?

Just kidding. It's a nice carbine and one of my favorite set ups.

Posted: 12/18/2014 11:50:38 AM EDT

[#6]

See - and I have been wanting an M4 barrel for mine!

I just like the way they look on the AF rebuilds - pics on retroblackrifle.com show pretty well.

Nice build Mr. Rangemaster... very nice.

Oh - and how do you like the scope? Was thinking of a clone myself.

Posted: 12/18/2014 8:07:55 PM EDT

[#7]

The NC Star 4X scope is a clone of the Colt, and has a BDC top dial for 55 grain built in. It is not a bad little unit, and works great. It is an older one that has been kicking around in the family for probably 10 or 15 years, so it has seen some use. When i get my 77 grain OTM rounds in, I will sight it in.

Posted: 12/18/2014 8:13:22 PM EDT

[#8]

This carbine better represents the USAF Franken-Carbine I had 1979 to 1981 in the 142 SPF at PANGB, than my earlier Franken-Carbine build with the M4 barrel. One weapon I had was a straight up GAU-5/A/A on a full fence lower, but the GAU-5/P I had was an early slab-side lower (either 601 or 602), slick side upper (probably the upper from the 601/602 parent weapon) and a 14.5 inch pencil barrel, 1/12 twist. The chrome lined 1/7 barrel and the Colt Fiberlite stock are modern concessions for weight and performance.

Posted: 12/18/2014 8:18:22 PM EDT

[#9]

I'll take door number one! That Kali Krap makes my stomach queasy!

Looks fantastic! Slicks are sick!

Posted: 12/18/2014 8:43:03 PM EDT

[#10]

And here I thought I was the only guy remaining with a working Tasco ProPoint. And to make it stranger I also have it mounted on a carry handle mount and our carbines look the same...must be a California thing.

]

Posted: 12/18/2014 9:33:40 PM EDT

[#11]

Fast, I love it! The Tasco Pro-Point, and its predecessor the Accu-Dot, are very under-rated. I first became aware of them in Southern Illinois in about 2007 where about two out of three 12 gauge deer hunting slug guns have them. They are very tough. 3" and 3.5" magnum slug recoil, crappy midwest fall/winter deer hunting weather (cold, fog, snow, ice, sleet, rain) and lots of brush and branches smacking them.

I got this Pro-Point recently for the AR, but my Accu-Dot that I have on my Saiga AK is awesome! Free standing, shooting off-hand, blasting tin-cans at 50 75 yards is easy stuff with the Tasco wearing AK.

Posted: 12/19/2014 9:31:02 AM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
Dear lord man, is that a tic mark on the right side of your selector?

Just kidding. It's a nice carbine and one of my favorite set ups.

View Quote

Bernie..... Do you need a no-Tic selector? If you do, then IM me you address again, I keep losing or forgetting the ones that I don't send stuff to regularly. If you need one Santa Will will put one in your stocking

Posted: 12/19/2014 11:18:20 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
I almost had it right with my USAF Franken Carbine build, but it had an M4 barrel. The Holy Grail for a CAR build is the 6420/6720 1/7" twist, 16" Pencil barrel...which I finally found. The below project is what was left after I took my retro 602 and a Carbine build, when I sold off all the 20" barreled retro stuff. Total weight empty is 5 pounds, 7 ounces!

Colt 604 early square forge upper
Colt 6720 1/7 Pencil barrel
Colt 601 Chrome BCG
Colt Fiberlite stock set
Nodak Spud 601 lower
Kalifornication compliant bullet button and Colt 20 rounder blocked to 10 rounds.
NC Star Colt 3X scope clone

<a href="http://s247.photobucket.com/user/imarangemaster/media/CAR15_zps81547875.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg134/imarangemaster/CAR15_zps81547875.jpg</a>

<a href="http://s247.photobucket.com/user/imarangemaster/media/CAR15a_zps23b85c7d.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg134/imarangemaster/CAR15a_zps23b85c7d.jpg</a>

<a href="http://s247.photobucket.com/user/imarangemaster/media/6420BARREL_zps51033895.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg134/imarangemaster/6420BARREL_zps51033895.jpg</a>

<a href="http://s247.photobucket.com/user/imarangemaster/media/CAR15B_zps4040bf0b.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg134/imarangemaster/CAR15B_zps4040bf0b.jpg</a>

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Now this is a nice set up! Simple and retro. Thanks for sharing.

Posted: 12/19/2014 12:49:54 PM EDT

[#14]

What does 'square forge' mean regarding the upper? I do notice it has a reg pin instead of the large SP1 style screw.

Posted: 12/19/2014 1:58:47 PM EDT

[#15]

Very nice, OP.

We like the same look.

Posted: 12/19/2014 2:13:35 PM EDT

[#16]

Very nice, I had that exact same configuration for a while before I converted it to something else.

it's a very fun and handy package

Posted: 12/21/2014 1:00:48 PM EDT

[#17]

I also have what is called a "Hammerhead" grip, that replaces the pistol grip with a paddle. It allows a better grasp of the weapon, allowing a wrap around grip. It has a feel much like an FN P90 PDW grip. It is better than a paddle, but uglier by far. Here it is on the M4gery build I traded my son for the retro CAR15 stuff.

Posted: 12/21/2014 1:40:07 PM EDT

[#18]

Do you Cali guys have to pin your Carbine stocks on featureless builds?

Posted: 12/21/2014 2:01:10 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
I also have what is called a "Hammerhead" grip, that replaces the pistol grip with a paddle. It allows a better grasp of the weapon, allowing a wrap around grip. It has a feel much like an FN P90 PDW grip. It is better than a paddle, but uglier by far. Here it is on the M4gery build I traded my son for the retro CAR15 stuff.

<a href="http://s247.photobucket.com/user/imarangemaster/media/M4gery2_zpsaf681431.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg134/imarangemaster/M4gery2_zpsaf681431.jpg</a>

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They have to be pinned or screwed so they can not collapse, and are "fixed" I use the Anderson A2 lower with an commercial spec aftermarket stock that I screwed permanently open to run my high-caps. I had a Colt looking clone stock I got from another member in PIF on it before, but had someone give me this tacticool stock I am trying as a "fixed". I think I will go back to the colt looking one, though, after I paint it gloss black.

I just could not bear to put a screw through my original Colt Fiberlite stock and tube! I leave it on the NDS 601 lower with a bullet button, to run 10 rounders most of the time. I use the Wilson Combat Comp muzzle brake that looks like an A1 flashider on the barel, so I can use it on either lower.

Posted: 12/21/2014 9:16:07 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:

They have to be pinned or screwed so they can not collapse, and are "fixed" I use the Anderson A2 lower with an commercial spec aftermarket stock that I screwed permanently open to run my high-caps. I had a Colt looking clone stock I got from another member in PIF on it before, but had someone give me this tacticool stock I am trying as a "fixed". I think I will go back to the colt looking one, though, after I paint it gloss black.

I just could not bear to put a screw through my original Colt Fiberlite stock and tube! I leave it on the NDS 601 lower with a bullet button, to run 10 rounders most of the time. I use the Wilson Combat Comp muzzle brake that looks like an A1 flashider on the barel, so I can use it on either lower.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I also have what is called a "Hammerhead" grip, that replaces the pistol grip with a paddle. It allows a better grasp of the weapon, allowing a wrap around grip. It has a feel much like an FN P90 PDW grip. It is better than a paddle, but uglier by far. Here it is on the M4gery build I traded my son for the retro CAR15 stuff.

<a href="http://s247.photobucket.com/user/imarangemaster/media/M4gery2_zpsaf681431.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg134/imarangemaster/M4gery2_zpsaf681431.jpg</a>

They have to be pinned or screwed so they can not collapse, and are "fixed" I use the Anderson A2 lower with an commercial spec aftermarket stock that I screwed permanently open to run my high-caps. I had a Colt looking clone stock I got from another member in PIF on it before, but had someone give me this tacticool stock I am trying as a "fixed". I think I will go back to the colt looking one, though, after I paint it gloss black.

I just could not bear to put a screw through my original Colt Fiberlite stock and tube! I leave it on the NDS 601 lower with a bullet button, to run 10 rounders most of the time. I use the Wilson Combat Comp muzzle brake that looks like an A1 flashider on the barel, so I can use it on either lower.

There's got to be a way to lock it in place with the lever or release/spring thingy, etc so you don't have to butcher a good stock.

Posted: 12/21/2014 9:29:45 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
Do you California guys have to pin your Carbine stocks on featureless builds?

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Sorry for the edit - it is a major pet peeve of mine

Back to the thread - pinning stocks. On my featureless builds I just run a type D or E stock. Rather not pin anything. I have a couple of dedicated featurless lowers I run when I am in the mood. My house gun is built on a California AWB registered PWA lower so no Bullet Button is required.

Posted: 12/21/2014 10:28:01 PM EDT

[#22]

I had an original Colt SP1 Carbine I registered as an AW in 1989. I had to sell it in 2000 after I was forced out on disability and my wife was laid off from her union meat cutter job at the same time. Had three kids in college and lost 60-70% of our income overnight! Oh well, my Carbine is now all Colt except the stripped NDS 601 lower...

I have the Anderson as my dedicated featureless lower for when I want to run high caps. Mostly I leave it in the safe with the bullet buttoned NDS 601 lower and a 10 rounder, and just pop it on the Anderson if I want to get serious and run some mags of MK262 Mod1 77s through it for SHTF.

My Featureless Saiga AK with a mag full of 8M3 Sapsan 124 HPs is my main SHTF house weapon! I keep it loaded with a 30 rounder and have a 6-pack shoulder bag (half 8M3 and half steel core) as my grab gun for the house.

Posted: 12/21/2014 10:48:05 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
I almost had it right with my USAF Franken Carbine build, but it had an M4 barrel. The Holy Grail for a CAR build is the 6420/6720 1/7" twist, 16" Pencil barrel...which I finally found. The below project is what was left after I took my retro 602 and a Carbine build, when I sold off all the 20" barreled retro stuff. Total weight empty is 5 pounds, 7 ounces!

Colt 604 early square forge upper
Colt 6720 1/7 Pencil barrel
Colt 601 Chrome BCG
Colt Fiberlite stock set
Nodak Spud 601 lower
Kalifornication compliant bullet button and Colt 20 rounder blocked to 10 rounds.
NC Star Colt 3X scope clone

<a href="http://s247.photobucket.com/user/imarangemaster/media/CAR15_zps81547875.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg134/imarangemaster/CAR15_zps81547875.jpg</a>

<a href="http://s247.photobucket.com/user/imarangemaster/media/CAR15a_zps23b85c7d.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg134/imarangemaster/CAR15a_zps23b85c7d.jpg</a>

<a href="http://s247.photobucket.com/user/imarangemaster/media/6420BARREL_zps51033895.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg134/imarangemaster/6420BARREL_zps51033895.jpg</a>

<a href="http://s247.photobucket.com/user/imarangemaster/media/CAR15B_zps4040bf0b.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg134/imarangemaster/CAR15B_zps4040bf0b.jpg</a>

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She's lookin' good, rangemaster.

Posted: 12/22/2014 12:20:59 AM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:
What does 'square forge' mean regarding the upper? I do notice it has a reg pin instead of the large SP1 style screw.

View Quote

The Colt AR15 SP1 civilian lowers were basically the same as the early Colt Model 601 and 601 lowers with no fence around the mag button or no boss to house a spring and detent to capture the front pivot pin. The 601 and 602 used a loose pin with a ball bearing detent in it, and the SP1 version of the lower used a larger pin with screw heads to make it "not interchangeable" with M16s. A stock SP1 AR15 is almost exactly a model 602.

Square forge has to do with the way the upper and lower receiver line up under the ejection port. Basically, on early (square forge) the upper lines up with the top of the magazine area of the lower (like mine) non-square forge, the upper just goes straight down from the rear of the dust cover pin boss. It is hard to describe, without pictures. Anyone have clear pictures of the difference they can post?

Posted: 12/22/2014 1:02:59 AM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:

The Colt AR15 SP1 civilian lowers were basically the same as the early Colt Model 601 and 601 lowers with no fence around the mag button or no boss to house a spring and detent to capture the front pivot pin. The 601 and 602 used a loose pin with a ball bearing detent in it, and the SP1 version of the lower used a larger pin with screw heads to make it "not interchangeable" with M16s. A stock SP1 AR15 is almost exactly a model 602.

Square forge has to do with the way the upper and lower receiver line up under the ejection port. Basically, on early (square forge) the upper lines up with the top of the magazine area of the lower (like mine) non-square forge, the upper just goes straight down from the rear of the dust cover pin boss. It is hard to describe, without pictures. Anyone have clear pictures of the difference they can post?

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
What does 'square forge' mean regarding the upper? I do notice it has a reg pin instead of the large SP1 style screw.

The Colt AR15 SP1 civilian lowers were basically the same as the early Colt Model 601 and 601 lowers with no fence around the mag button or no boss to house a spring and detent to capture the front pivot pin. The 601 and 602 used a loose pin with a ball bearing detent in it, and the SP1 version of the lower used a larger pin with screw heads to make it "not interchangeable" with M16s. A stock SP1 AR15 is almost exactly a model 602.

Square forge has to do with the way the upper and lower receiver line up under the ejection port. Basically, on early (square forge) the upper lines up with the top of the magazine area of the lower (like mine) non-square forge, the upper just goes straight down from the rear of the dust cover pin boss. It is hard to describe, without pictures. Anyone have clear pictures of the difference they can post?

Thanks. No need for pics. I know exactly what your describing(where the 2 halfs meet just behind/under the rear edge of the ejection port cover while its open). I noticed that on my first SP1 bought new in 78. Looked like theres something miss-aligned between the 2, but thats the way they all are, even to this day. You can actually see the typical layout on the A2/A3 setup in this thread. Vs the square forged setup just above it.

Posted: 12/22/2014 10:00:48 PM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:

The Colt AR15 SP1 civilian lowers were basically the same as the early Colt Model 601 and 601 lowers with no fence around the mag button or no boss to house a spring and detent to capture the front pivot pin. The 601 and 602 used a loose pin with a ball bearing detent in it, and the SP1 version of the lower used a larger pin with screw heads to make it "not interchangeable" with M16s. A stock SP1 AR15 is almost exactly a model 602.

Square forge has to do with the way the upper and lower receiver line up under the ejection port. Basically, on early (square forge) the upper lines up with the top of the magazine area of the lower (like mine) non-square forge, the upper just goes straight down from the rear of the dust cover pin boss. It is hard to describe, without pictures. Anyone have clear pictures of the difference they can post?

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
What does 'square forge' mean regarding the upper? I do notice it has a reg pin instead of the large SP1 style screw.

The Colt AR15 SP1 civilian lowers were basically the same as the early Colt Model 601 and 601 lowers with no fence around the mag button or no boss to house a spring and detent to capture the front pivot pin. The 601 and 602 used a loose pin with a ball bearing detent in it, and the SP1 version of the lower used a larger pin with screw heads to make it "not interchangeable" with M16s. A stock SP1 AR15 is almost exactly a model 602.

Square forge has to do with the way the upper and lower receiver line up under the ejection port. Basically, on early (square forge) the upper lines up with the top of the magazine area of the lower (like mine) non-square forge, the upper just goes straight down from the rear of the dust cover pin boss. It is hard to describe, without pictures. Anyone have clear pictures of the difference they can post?

Negative. Square Forge in top pic, Round Forge in bottom pic

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/401263_USGI_Colt_603_XM16E1_M16A1_upper_buyers_guide_Edition_II.html

Posted: 12/22/2014 11:21:02 PM EDT

[#27]

THANKS!

Posted: 12/23/2014 12:47:03 AM EDT

[#28]

+1. Thanks for clearing that up. I assumed the wrong thing.

Posted: 12/23/2014 3:41:21 AM EDT

[#29]

Is it true, though, that on the square forge, the part under the port door lines up with the lower also, and the round forge is even with the back of the port door. Or is it just the very early square forge that line up in back????

Posted: 12/23/2014 3:51:10 AM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
Is it true, though, that on the square forge, the part under the port door lines up with the lower also, and the round forge is even with the back of the port door. Or is it just the very early square forge that line up in back????

View Quote

It's just the very early receivers that have the rebated port door line that matches the lower magwell, examples are 601,602, very early XM16E1's, and the uber rare super early 604 upper.

Posted: 12/23/2014 11:22:12 AM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:

It's just the very early receivers that have the rebated port door line that matches the lower magwell, examples are 601,602, very early XM16E1's, and the uber rare super early 604 upper.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is it true, though, that on the square forge, the part under the port door lines up with the lower also, and the round forge is even with the back of the port door. Or is it just the very early square forge that line up in back????

It's just the very early receivers that have the rebated port door line that matches the lower magwell, examples are 601,602, very early XM16E1's, and the uber rare super early 604 upper.

This is what I understand also. I wasn't trying to be curt with my reply, just bummed out about Joe Cocker's passing and was jamming. Gravelly voice but put on one hell of a performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbMyksobL-U

Ringo may have sang the original but Joe owns this song.

Posted: 12/23/2014 11:35:56 AM EDT

[#32]

No proplem, Brother, I didn't think it was curt. It is a shame about Cocker, though... We are getting old!

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - My CAR15/654/SP1 Carbine clone...

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