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.223 AR pistol - Buffer tube assemblies
BMPRacing  [Member]
Originally Posted By ColdDeadHands1:
Can anyone provide the length of the Model 1 pistol buffer tube, RRA tube, and FTF tube, measured from the back of the lower receiver?

Would be nice to have the exposed lengths of these all listed in one place. Here is what I have so far:

Pistol Buffer Tube Length, from back of lower receiver
ACE = 7"
Spikes = 7"
RRA = ?
Model 1 = ?
FTF = ?



A Model 1 is 7 1/8" OAL from the receiver.

Brad

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etolleys  [Member]
I like mine but do you know what can be used as an end cap? Where the threaded hole s? Does anyone make a nice cap or something?
HU100  [Member]
I just got my ACE Ltd Improved Pistol Kit on Friday. I had tried a Model 1 kit and then the RRA new style buffer tube and I had trouble with both not allowing the upper to close on the lower. With the ACE pistol kit the buffer tube sits back farther into the receiver allowing the two halfs to close properly. I will now be selling a fairly new Model 1 pistol kit and a new RRA new style buffer tube. I love the ACE kit! Also, the ACE kit uses the same buffer tube as is on the ARFX-E stock and the ultra light stock, with the threaded hole in the end. ACE does warn that owning a buttstock, such as the ultra light stock has, may be illegal. I do not own one and I installed the foamy on to the tube which should leave little question as to legality. I spent 25 years in street law enforcement before moving into campus law enforcement for an additional ten years....it is time that 'we' stop convicting people for what they might do and start punishing the persons who actually do commit crimes in our country. Nuff said.
tubeaudio  [Member]
Just waded thru the postings here. Seemed like alot of problems/poor understanding of inertia mass spring strength/ and or whining. While I find the skeletal type most pleasing the GSE shorty has had my finger on the buy button many times. All along, as well as with 1911 mods, I have intended to use not the extra power Wolff springs (which reside in my 1911's along with full length guide rods and cushioning recoil end point plungers and recoil breaks to allow "hot" handloads) but there is a easily found setup which is next for trials by this newbie.

That is the recoil spring assembly found in the lower rec/buttstock of the ZB/Bren family of LMG's. A long and solid record of performance under fire. There are lots of parts kits and bits out there and offer this suggestion as a possibility. The Bren spring has an end plate with a central guide rod. Two springs, thin and thick ride on the rod. The dual spring setup not only provides more power than will ever be needed but results in a more linear compression force curve. The outer diameter of outer spring is just about perfect as a 1911 substitute spring. The assembly is far too long and must be trimmed to length, one unit will likely make two 1911/ar15 pistol "springs" to fit the GSE template. It took me awhile to understand exactly how the GSE works but not until I understood that the recoil spring resides partially WITHIN the rear of bolt carrier did all make sense.

Now I have not tried this out yet but offer the idea as a subject of discussion and experimentation. Certainly far more experienced builders than I read these postings but sometimes the simplest things can be overlooked by experts while newbies can see both forest and trees. Hopefully this has been tried somewhere and can save me headaches.

Problems to figure out-
1. How much inner and outer springs would need trimming to optimize?
2. How long to cut guide rod? Is it necessary at all? After all will not compress unless telescoped. Will a holding pin and attendant hole in guide rod be necessary for disassembly?
3. Gas port on barrel diameter as well as gas tube inner diameter effects dwell and are both controllable variables.
4. I do not believe in oprod systems as the beauty of the DI system lies in all moving parts being directly in bore axis. Think of the off axis chunk of steel banging back and forth in ak type systems. Additionally the initial gas injection supports bolt lockup until the carrier has acquired sufficient inertial momentum to complete the entire cycling process.
5. WHY BOTHER? What is wrong with a OA-93 upper receiver? Also a pretested kit seems a wise choice rather than scratch built with how many failures and wasted time and parts to get to the kit or prebuilt unit point. 4 inches sticking out the back are inadequate for shoulder support or anchoring in the hip elbow pinch in an urgent from the hip mode.

The skeletal stock, same length as extended collapsible, is stronger (mine is homebrew stainless steel) and in SBR configuration seems hard to beat. The advantages of a pistol configuration seem to be nothing more than an end run around SBR laws, I want something that will serve at 400 yards as well as 400 inches. A tall order but this platform with a strong skeletal and 11 inch barrel can do it. The ballistics with a 7 inch barrel cost alot of velocity and with it accuracy, after all the projectile flight time is extended substantially and with it wind and drop adjustments become more critical.

OK, my 2 cents worth, await corrections and enlightenment
a newbie......
nrtnburgess  [Member]
hey I am new to site i have a sig p556 pistol and i am going to do a sbr withit and i am wondering what buffer tubes and stocks i should check out and where to find them . Also I want to change out the forend sig said that they are the only ones who can change the forend out and only offer the swat that comes on the swat edition p556 any help would be great and thanks
DEERHEAD  [Member]
Originally Posted By Noner:
Just my 2 cents...

Model 1 sales (old style short) ––––> Massive Reliability Issues. 5-10% reliability.

Model 1 sales (new style long) ––––> Better, but basically just a buffer tube from a RRA Entry Stock.

RRA Entry Stock Tube ––––-> Works 100% but you need to rig something to hold the pin in the rear of the lower for the selector.

Ace Pistol Buffer System ––––> Works 100% and solves the issues with the Safety on the Lower.

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

-Jason

i'm new to ar pistol, i don't understand what this mean,
RRA Entry Stock Tube ––––-> Works 100% but you need to rig something to hold the pin in the rear of the lower for the selector
CommonwealthKid  [Member]
Originally Posted By DEERHEAD:
Originally Posted By Noner:
Just my 2 cents...

Model 1 sales (old style short) ––––> Massive Reliability Issues. 5-10% reliability.

Model 1 sales (new style long) ––––> Better, but basically just a buffer tube from a RRA Entry Stock.

RRA Entry Stock Tube ––––-> Works 100% but you need to rig something to hold the pin in the rear of the lower for the selector.

Ace Pistol Buffer System ––––> Works 100% and solves the issues with the Safety on the Lower.

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

-Jason

i'm new to ar pistol, i don't understand what this mean,
RRA Entry Stock Tube ––––-> Works 100% but you need to rig something to hold the pin in the rear of the lower for the selector


It involves this work-around: Rear Takedown Pin Detent Mod
Or, getting a receiver end plate to work with your buffer tube.
Mountain_Cop  [Member]
The "bushmaster mod" (using a bushmaster short BCG or a cut down BC in conjunction with a Model 1 or other short buffer tube assy) was referred to a couple of pages (and several years) ago. Did the idea die? I read the threads that it referred to, but all the pics were down. Did anyone get this down to a 100% reliable system with a +/- 2" buffer tube? That plus a modified Nordic CRS or similar "fully collapsible" stock would be a sweet package for an entry gun, especially something in the SBR class.
600RPM  [Member]
Originally Posted By CommonwealthKid:
Originally Posted By DEERHEAD:
Originally Posted By Noner:
Just my 2 cents...

Model 1 sales (old style short) ––––> Massive Reliability Issues. 5-10% reliability.

Model 1 sales (new style long) ––––> Better, but basically just a buffer tube from a RRA Entry Stock.

RRA Entry Stock Tube ––––-> Works 100% but you need to rig something to hold the pin in the rear of the lower for the selector.

Ace Pistol Buffer System ––––> Works 100% and solves the issues with the Safety on the Lower.

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

-Jason

i'm new to ar pistol, i don't understand what this mean,
RRA Entry Stock Tube ––––-> Works 100% but you need to rig something to hold the pin in the rear of the lower for the selector


It involves this work-around: Rear Takedown Pin Detent Mod
Or, getting a receiver end plate to work with your buffer tube.


Back in '95, to retain the take-down pin detent spring in my pistol lower, I modified the receiver end plate with my shorty buffer assembly ( I think it is a Gunsmoke Ent. buffer kit):

I found a short hex cap screw, about 3/16" long, and, using a tap, threaded the spring hole opening at the rear of the receiver deep enough for the screw to thread in all the way.

I shortened the spring by about 1/8" or so with wire cutters and ground the cut end flat and square on a grinder. I inserted the shortened spring into the hole and screwed the cap screw in to retain it.
NOTE: a flush set screw instead of a cap screw would have been easier, and canceled the need for the following mod:



After measuring and marking the receiver end plate for the location of the now protruding cap screw head, I clamped it into a drill press vise and drilled a hole just large enough to fit over the cap screw head. It actually broke out the side of the receiver plate, but that was Ok, the "C" shaped hole fit nicely around the screw head.

Assembled the buffer tube on the receiver, Voila! Problem solved, spring retained. I can now takedown the buffer tube assembly without having the spring pop out, or I can remove the spring to take out the pin without having to remove the buffer tube.



Just FYI: I am still using the same original buffer spring 16 years/1,000 or so rounds later. I bought a couple spare springs back in the day but have never used them. Gun shoots great!
error404  [Member]
I'm trying to find the RRA buffer tube in their site, but I only see the complete AR-Pistols! could someone find me a link?
myco4you  [Member]
The RRA Entry Stock Tube is different then the RRA Pistol Tube.

The Pistol Tube has longer threads,and the Entry Stock Tube has A2 tube length threads.


RRA site shows the Pistol Tube on the Pistol lowers page at the bottom,and it is available seperately for $25

They also offer free shipping on orders of $25 or more.

I ordered a pistol tube,they shipped it free,and I had it in 4 days.

RusssD  [Member]
Originally Posted By myco4you:
The RRA Entry Stock Tube is different then the RRA Pistol Tube.

The Pistol Tube has longer threads,and the Entry Stock Tube has A2 tube length threads.


RRA site shows the Pistol Tube on the Pistol lowers page at the bottom,and it is available seperately for $25

They also offer free shipping on orders of $25 or more.

I ordered a pistol tube,they shipped it free,and I had it in 4 days.



Is there any way I can use the Magpul sling plate with this buffer tube?
myco4you  [Member]
The sling plate will be perfect with the Pistol Tube.

If you use the sling plate with an Entry Stock Tube,the tube will not hold the buffer detent in place.
EdHaney1  [Team Member]
I recently picked up an ACE tube assembly and just don't feel comfortable with it. It doesn't have a locking base plate like the regular buffer tubes. It's the same length as the regular collapsible tubes so I slid the foam over a collapsible tube and used a regular plate with a detent so Im more comfortable with it locking up. I installed a single point sling too.
citifiguy  [Member]
When using the smaller diameter receiver extension tube (RET) , use the Ace ultralite gusset to hold in the rear pin spring and cover it with a foam sleeve.

jrzy  [Team Member]

Originally Posted By NovaLondon:
Many posts here are being so very extreme on what is and what is not going to get ones self into trouble on these pistols.
Unless you are the PIECE of, or TARGET of ,an investigation where LEO's are going to come to your home with or without a search warrant, the only way you can be challenged for legality of the weapon is if you bring it on yourself. 4th Amendment protects us, even us old cops.
Having a SPARE stock for a particular style weapon and having another weapon, (pistol)that would become illegal by statute if you put it on does not make it illegal to have that spare for whatever reason you say, if ask. (remember; pistol to rifle to pistol, totaly legal)
Laws are written in black and white, LEO's have to enforce black and white. They cannot make up laws to enforce at their whims, If they do, courts are there to protect the individual. (25 years experience talking here)
Me I am building a pistol and have spare parts in the home where the pistol will reside. It is legal in Arizona to have one ....Yippee!
It is illegal under Federal law to install a buffer tube on a AR Pistol that will still accept a stock.
You might be surprised at how easy it is to get busted at a public range or by a cop who knows what he's doing.

jrzy  [Team Member]

Originally Posted By JarmenKell:
Unlike machine guns, there is no such thing as "constructive intent" with SBRs.

I think you would have more to fear from ignorant local cops, than from Federal agents in this matter. Any BATFE agent will likely be aware of the fact that this is still a legal pistol, and that there is no "constructive intent" with SBRs. But a local cop is likely to be uneducated on the more "in-depth" aspects of firearms law.

False.
If you have a full size AR and a 11.5 Upper sitting next to it in the safe you could get charged with constructive intent for an SBR.
Now if you had an AR pistol sitting there or a Lower with a pistol buffer tube on it , you're good to go.


iNeXile556  [Team Member]
I believe the proper term is constructive possession.
Constructive intent would indicate the need to prove intent (not very likely).
Constructive possession is possessing the parts to construct.
BIG difference.
Pat_H  [Team Member]
Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By NovaLondon:
Many posts here are being so very extreme on what is and what is not going to get ones self into trouble on these pistols.
Unless you are the PIECE of, or TARGET of ,an investigation where LEO's are going to come to your home with or without a search warrant, the only way you can be challenged for legality of the weapon is if you bring it on yourself. 4th Amendment protects us, even us old cops.
Having a SPARE stock for a particular style weapon and having another weapon, (pistol)that would become illegal by statute if you put it on does not make it illegal to have that spare for whatever reason you say, if ask. (remember; pistol to rifle to pistol, totaly legal)
Laws are written in black and white, LEO's have to enforce black and white. They cannot make up laws to enforce at their whims, If they do, courts are there to protect the individual. (25 years experience talking here)
Me I am building a pistol and have spare parts in the home where the pistol will reside. It is legal in Arizona to have one ....Yippee![/quote]It is illegal under Federal law to install a buffer tube on a AR Pistol that will still accept a stock.
You might be surprised at how easy it is to get busted at a public range or by a cop who knows what he's doing.

No, in fact, that is not true. If you had perused the many letters from the ATF about extension tubes, you'd have found this one.


I would not recommend one possess a AR pistol with a standard extension tube AND a buttstock that fits it which is not mounted on a rifle, it is not a NFA violation to install the standard receiver extension tube, at least at this time.

jrzy  [Team Member]

Originally Posted By Pat_H:
Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By NovaLondon:
Many posts here are being so very extreme on what is and what is not going to get ones self into trouble on these pistols.
Unless you are the PIECE of, or TARGET of ,an investigation where LEO's are going to come to your home with or without a search warrant, the only way you can be challenged for legality of the weapon is if you bring it on yourself. 4th Amendment protects us, even us old cops.
Having a SPARE stock for a particular style weapon and having another weapon, (pistol)that would become illegal by statute if you put it on does not make it illegal to have that spare for whatever reason you say, if ask. (remember; pistol to rifle to pistol, totaly legal)
Laws are written in black and white, LEO's have to enforce black and white. They cannot make up laws to enforce at their whims, If they do, courts are there to protect the individual. (25 years experience talking here)
Me I am building a pistol and have spare parts in the home where the pistol will reside. It is legal in Arizona to have one ....Yippee![/quote]It is illegal under Federal law to install a buffer tube on a AR Pistol that will still accept a stock.
You might be surprised at how easy it is to get busted at a public range or by a cop who knows what he's doing.

No, in fact, that is not true. If you had perused the many letters from the ATF about extension tubes, you'd have found this one.
http://images112.fotki.com/v386/photos/5/41655/10241684/Bufferquestion-vi.jpg

I would not recommend one possess a AR pistol with a standard extension tube AND a buttstock that fits it which is not mounted on a rifle, it is not a NFA violation to install the standard receiver extension tube, at least at this time.

I might have not stated it correctly but that is what I meant.
If you do use a buffer tube that accepts a stock and you have the stock there you COULD Possibly be charged.

By the way digging up a letter from 2004 and then relying on said letter is not too bright.
These letters do change sometimes but you already knew that huh?



Pat_H  [Team Member]
I found that letter in this thread, in this forum.
1988rrc  [Member]
has anyone used the phase 5 tactical buffer tubes?
http://www.phase5tactical.com/products/weapon-systems/phase-5-ar15-pistol-buffer-tube-complete-assembly-pbt-ca-
browningfan91  [Member]
Here is an up to date letter, 12-2-2011.

link
unclered  [Member]
Greetings from Manchester MI. I have just assmbld an ar pistol. Thank you for all the info. I do not have a foam or rubber cover for my buffer tube. Any suggestions?
What are my options?
ultramagbrion  [Team Member]
Originally Posted By unclered:
Greetings from Manchester MI. I have just assmbld an ar pistol. Thank you for all the info. I do not have a foam or rubber cover for my buffer tube. Any suggestions?
What are my options?



You might try a bicycle shop for the foam . . . . not sure about the sizes available.
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